Am I blind or just insecure? Girlfriend red flags

[Ubriculius]

Hi guys, long time reader / lurker here. I want to run the story of this girl I'm seeing now with you, and if you guys are generous maybe you can drop some impressions.

I met this girl last year, around May. She was the girlfriend of a good buddy of mine. We went to some places in groups, and got to know her more on those occasions. At that time I was also seeing another girl which really wanted commitment but I was not sold on her. Anyway, her relationship with my buddy was short, about 1 and a half months, and he broke up with her, which is unlike him. Shortly after, she started hitting me up on Facebook to meet up. We met a few times, messeged each other, reached sexting then ****ed and ended up together. I left the girl I was seeing so I can be 100% with her.

To make sense why I did this, I liked her more because she was more fun, easy to talk about anything, she had more of a wild side, more open sexually, and a nice ass. One part that I got to know about her and worried me a bit was that since she was young she always had male friends and always was with them, very few other girls in those groups. She assured me she was like a little sister to them and none hitted on her.

However, over time, she gave out some red flags that were not OK with me. For example, when we went out in a club or with friends, she used to share little of her attention with me, and was very friendly with my guy friends (hugging, being close, etc). I was never a jealous guy but she managed to always get me heated up with these displays, to which point I yelled in the club at her because she was not hanging out with me but hugging my friend on the dance floor while I was smoking outside. She at that point accused me of being jealous. Another one was when we went to a festival, I had a mutual friend and she knew no one there. But, there was this guy, a drummer in a local band, and I noticed she kept checking him out, was keeping close to him, laughing, making jokes, etc, and I was just staring like Wtf. At one point the guy was doing something and she pulled her top to show part of her tits so he could do the joke. I snapped and commented that was very ****ed up, she kept hugging and kissing me that it was just funny, I talked with her and wanted to break up but cooled down and went forward.

These were when we were together early. Since then, there were no other red flags, everything was going great, good sex, good company, always shared her time with me, we did things together, we had talks about our future together, etc. All seemed great.

Fast forward to about 1 month ago, sex life was not good anymore, I had to force her some times to do it, and it wasn't with the same passion, and just sex no *******s no nothing. Because of this, I had a weird gut feeling. So, in one night, while she was sleeping, I went through her phone.

I found, in regular messages, not WhatsApp or Facebook what she normally uses, conversations with guys complaining that she isn't replying to them anymore, stuff like that. I thought, heh, orbiters being orbiters. However, out of curiosity, there was this guy she told me about, from the old gang she had longer ago, older than us and who is now married. She always spoke with an admiring tone how many ****ed up things he's done, how much of a man ***** he is, etc. I read their convo and find an extremely sexual chat between them, from about 2 months ago, where he was remembering how good it felt to **** her and have her suck his ****. Her replies were sparse, like emojis and "I'll think about it", but between those chats there were texts like "hey I'll drop by later today / lemme call you so we can see each other tomorrow".

I got mad as ****, managed to not choke her while sleeping by smoking half a pack and downing a bottle of vodka. I confronted her later in the day, being calm, and told her that I looked through her phone and found that convo. She was very calm about it, which surprised me "oh, I don't even remember what I talked last with him" and scrolled up on the chat, then "oh, yeah, this convo.. Let me explain" then goes to say that about 4 years ago they had about 2 ONS, she moved on after those like nothing but that he was still insisting on remembering and that he was not passed those moments. I said that the convo was like it happened much more recently than 4 years ago, with that level of details, and even if I buy that, what's with the seeing each other texts. She was like oh you know, we are friends, we always talk to meet and just chat, but we never do, and never actually met even if we said in chat. I didn't buy that at all but said OK and that I will think about it.

After this incident, I detached my feelings and said that I will keep her around for sex and company while she keeps a pact she agreed with me to win my trust back. We talked about the convo, she cried several times and said what she said is the truth and did nothing wrong,and that she really wants this to work and she never loved anybody like me now. Even though I said I will keep her in a trial period, if she messes up again with something like this we are ending it, but next month we are moving in together, and she keeps talking about having a baby with me. She earns less than me, by half, and I treat her sometimes although I have her usually pay for half of the ****.

So, how blind am I? Or can she possibly be right and be honest? Any advice on this is highly appreciated, thanks for your time guys!

 

[Ubriculius]

She's a slvt, she will never be loyal to anyone. She needs attention from many men and uses sex to get it.

In early times of the relationship I'd 100% buy that, but why would she push for exclusivity and all these long term plans now, moving in together, being excited, wanting a baby, I met her parents a few times, she met mine. Is she trying to settle down with a messed up past or maybe get the beta bux

 

[Robert28]

I’d cut my losses. If a girl is driving you this crazy then it’s only downhill from here. I’d never go through a girls phone because I’m not like that but I also know I’m liable to find stuff I don’t want to find. A woman will tell you all you need to know with her actions, how you respond to those actions is key. So far you’ve responded badly with the freakout in the club to the phone thing to catching major feelings for a girl that’s not returning the same show of feelings. This girl seems extremely experienced in the game and how to control you to get what she wants, Hell I dunno if I could outgame this girl or if I’d even want to try.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Knowing her age would help a bit. The young ones often go through a period where they explore and find their power, and they do this through seeking attention from as many as they can get it from. Very few really attractive women under 30 make solid relationship material for this reason.

A couple things that stand out to me (beyond the obvious attention seeking behavior) are:
1. When you told her she did something you don't like, she turned it around on you and told you that it wasn't her that was doing something wrong, it is really YOU. YOU are wrong because you are being jealous. This is classic gas-lighting and is a primary characteristic of those with narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder. It doesn't necessarily mean she has either of those, but this is a big, big problem and if you don't know to look for it and how to hold your ground, she can really scramble your brains by gaslighting you into think you are the unreasonable one. She also did this with regards to the texts you discovered.
2. Your s*x life with her is going down-hill recently. Your s*x life is a thermometer for your relationship. It's like the canary in the coal mine. If you aren't able to detect that there is an issue from her actions, typically the s*x will be the dead giveaway.

It sounds, from your description, that you are holding frame better than a lot of guys by being willing to walk away and ensuring she understands that, and holding your ground about what you think is acceptable. But given everything that you've described, I would absolutely not move in together! STOP STOP STOP. If you charted out how things are going on a graph, they are going in a downward direction. You have her on probation, the s*x is in decline, and you've very recently caught her in some bad situations. This is a time to pull BACK, de-invest, and give her space to miss and appreciate you. It is not the time to end up trapped together under the same roof, planning to have a kid, in a situation that is going to be more difficult to unwind should things continue on their current trajectory.

 

[Ubriculius]

Knowing her age would help a bit. The young ones often go through a period where they explore and find their power, and they do this through seeking attention from as many as they can get it from. Very few really attractive women under 30 make solid relationship material for this reason.

Awesome advice. She is 26, I am 27. I had a feeling that she had a past with a few more adventures that I would normally be comfortable with for LTR. It didn't bother me that much because I did not knew much, until more recent details where this is more and more clear, who knows how many similar things happened and how many other orbiters I know nothing of. She mentioned from the beginnings that she always struggled to make things work in past LTRs, and that she got cheated on a lot. This made a bubble in my head that I can be the guy to treat her right. She does have some mommy issues, but gets along great with her dad.

As for the s*x part, it's better since I discovered the phone stuff. Not sure if she's just trying to make it up or if she's dedicating more. She wants it now too because of the baby part. Although very restrictive of some stuff like an*l and facials, even though I heard some rumors that she had no problem with these in the past.

The confusing part is that other than sometime lack of sex (which she at one point argued that she just doesn't get the need, but had some points with 2 weeks of no s*x, which I pointed out and its been better) there are no apparent flags to raise. She is caring, now she does not do the club things anymore, she stands by my side, and offers to help with almost anything and provides attention on a daily basis.

Moving in together is a bad move, I went ahead with it because of other reasons like a much better apartment and area, and other perks than my current establishment. In my mind, I thought that if she is with me every day, I will be much more capable to see her slip, if she disappears "in town" or if she hides her phone.

I will use protection for the baby part, and will try and keep my eye on her, I have a plate ready to spin, but unfortunately I feel like I am being too much of a trusting beta in her. Others would have cut her much earlier.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Op,

I dumped a chick exactly like the one you’re describing about a month ago. She told me one night how she’s always viewed sex “as a way for people to like her”....

You’re personalizing the behavior of a deeply damaged woman who is unsavable. As LA told you, she will do this with every. Single. Guy. She dates. Period. Don’t personalize her actions. Move on and be thankful you’re in the process of detaching. Most guys, unaware betas, who run into this buzzsaw come out intensely f*cked up.

 

[btownbuck2012]

. In my mind, I thought that if she is with me every day, I will be much more capable to see her slip, if she disappears "in town" or if she hides her phone.

.

I'll warn you too brother, what you think "seeing her slip" will look like if you're with her everyday is something you're totally unprepared for. It'll be some crazy raging or even some violent behavior, not the talking to other dudes that will blindside you - - If you're with her everyday.

 

[DreamAgain]

OP it's time to dump and cut your losses, you know it deep down. I know you won't do it though, we never realize it until it hits us in the face.

One day you'll look back at your post and think "damn, the signs were all there and I ignored them."

 

[Ubriculius]

To be honest, I would have dumped her so eagerly if when I found the convos I had some real hard proof that she did it. But because it wasn't 100% clear, she was able to argue her case, that he is an old fling, and that they just texted, she replied only to make him pass the subject, then told him to stop bringing up that. I asked where did she do that because I did not see this, "you did not see it because I told him over the phone" right..

I admit I am having troubles just letting this go, since I have time and feelings invested, her parents are great, and always give her the benefit of the doubt to an extent. If only I had real proof she fuc*ed up, this would be so easy.

My question, although hard to figure out: Is there any way I can try to get this proof? That's why I was also eager to have her near, to catch some bullsh*t in action. She will probably hide her tracks much better now though.

 

[Robert28]

OP it's time to dump and cut your losses, you know it deep down. I know you won't do it though, we never realize it until it hits us in the face.

One day you'll look back at your post and think "damn, the signs were all there and I ignored them."

My bigger fear is cutting losses over something I misread or made too much of. That’s why I’ve held on too long before but I’ve also wondered if I bailed too fast other times.

 

[Robert28]

To be honest, I would have dumped her so eagerly if when I found the convos I had some real hard proof that she did it. But because it wasn't 100% clear, she was able to argue her case, that he is an old fling, and that they just texted, she replied only to make him pass the subject, then told him to stop bringing up that. I asked where did she do that because I did not see this, "you did not see it because I told him over the phone" right..

I admit I am having troubles just letting this go, since I have time and feelings invested, her parents are great, and always give her the benefit of the doubt to an extent. If only I had real proof she fuc*ed up, this would be so easy.

My question, although hard to figure out: Is there any way I can try to get this proof? That's why I was also eager to have her near, to catch some bullsh*t in action. She will probably hide her tracks much better now though.

Sounds like the trust in this relationship is gone to ****. If that’s the case then you have to breakup with her for that alone.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

She mentioned from the beginnings that she always struggled to make things work in past LTRs, and that she got cheated on a lot. This made a bubble in my head that I can be the guy to treat her right.

Notice what happened: She said something about her past, and you then decided to alter or shape how you treat her in order to secure your spot with her. Some women can use this as a manipulation tactic to get you playing in their frame. "My last boyfriend was a jealous a-hole" = "Better give me a lot of space to f*ck around on you and flirt with other guys... you wouldn't want me to label you an 'insecure jealous d*ck' like that last a-hole right? Please tell me you're a better person than he was! Remember, I dumped his a$$ so obviously I'll do the same to you if you act like he did." Or "My last boyfriend was super controlling and domineering" = "I'm going to be calling all the shots here and you are going to go along with what I say, right? You aren't a domineering controlling jerk like my ex right??" The important thing to remember is, do NOT change who and how you are based on your GFs stories about her ex or her parents, etc.

Honestly it sounds like she might be turning it around. I will say that my ex wife who I was with for six years had an attention wh*ring problem too. She would occasionally flirt with other guys, and she would also do things like go out to lunch one on one with male co-workers that she'd then start texting all the time with etc. Early on in the relationship, she described her ex as an insecure jealous a-hole like the example in my last paragraph, and I also knew that women generally don't like jealous guys, but I didn't understand at that point in my life that there is a difference between insecure jealousy without reason, and drawing a line on inappropriate behavior. So I was in her frame, acting in response to her comments, in order to not be an "insecure jealous type." But finally one night at a party she was flirting pretty hard with a guy from her work (in front of me and the guy's wife) and after the party I talked to her about it, told her she crossed a line with me, embarrassed herself in front of the guy's wife and all the other guests, and that it could never happen again. She got really anxious and embarrassed and ultimately ended up talking with her therapist about it for several sessions and realized that seeking attention like this from other guys to validate herself was wrong. She quit doing it from that day forward, for the remaining four years of our relationship, it never once happened again. I feel it's rare that people turn things around like this, most people don't and can't change, but it does happen and it is possible.

From what you describe, it sounds like she is responding to your holding STRONG frame, communicating your boundaries, and demonstrating that you are willing to walk away. That may be all you need to keep her in check. If the s*x is good again, and she's acting as you describe now, there is no way to know if it's permanent, but IMHO the best thing to do if you still like her is to NOT move in together, do NOT get her pregnant, and just keep seeing her while holding your strong frame and see what happens. Also, many times if a girl is seeking attention from other guys, it's because she isn't getting what she wants from you. Most (not all but most) girls with very high IL in you won't flirt with other guys because they are getting everything they need from you and like you so much that they don't want to risk losing you. It is up to you to determine whether she is getting what she needs from you - some common examples are: challenge (she isn't sure she has you), someone who leads her, someone who sets clear boundaries and is willing to walk if she crosses them, someone who is masculine, happy, secure, and has a strong focus on his mission and purpose in life. If another year or so goes by and she has been quite consistent, then you can reassess moving in together. I would be VERY skeptical about having a kid with her ever though.

A lot of others here are likely to say ditch her now, and that's certainly an option. But given my experience with my ex, and so long as you are cautious that you don't get yourself into a situation where severing ties with her will be anything harder than just telling her "it's over", I don't see any reason not to continue seeing her as long as you operate as I've outlined above.

 

[niceguytoalphamale]

@Ubriculius dating your buddies ex.. not very good on your end either pretty low. Anyways for your question. Sounds like trouble no wonder he broke up with her.

 

[niceguytoalphamale]

@Ubriculius

 

[soulforge]

To be honest, I would have dumped her so eagerly if when I found the convos I had some real hard proof that she did it. But because it wasn't 100% clear, she was able to argue her case, that he is an old fling, and that they just texted, she replied only to make him pass the subject, then told him to stop bringing up that. I asked where did she do that because I did not see this, "you did not see it because I told him over the phone" right..

I admit I am having troubles just letting this go, since I have time and feelings invested, her parents are great, and always give her the benefit of the doubt to an extent. If only I had real proof she fuc*ed up, this would be so easy.

My question, although hard to figure out: Is there any way I can try to get this proof? That's why I was also eager to have her near, to catch some bullsh*t in action. She will probably hide her tracks much better now though.

Dude if you continue with this chick, I guarantee you, months or even years down the line, you will be in a world of fukin pain.

This is NOT a quality chick... She is a a fukin LIABILITY

You will need eyes on the back of your head with this Slvt... Is this the best you can do?

When a chick has to go back to square one and try to build your trust in her all over again.. The game is already OVER

I would STRONGLY advise you to dump this one.. Do not keep her around for sex.. You are too emotionally invested for FWB.. You need a clean break from this hoe.

 

[Robert28]

Why is she even talking to so many dudes while dating you? What would she say if she went through your phone and found you’d been talking to other girls like she has? New ones, old ones, doesn’t matter.

 

[niceguytoalphamale]

Dude if you continue with this chick, I guarantee you, months or even years down the line, you will be in a world of fukin pain.

This is NOT a quality chick... She is a a fukin LIABILITY

You will need eyes on the back of your head with this Slvt... Is this the best you can do?

When a chick has to go back to square one and try to build your trust in her all over again.. The game is already OVER

I would STRONGLY advise you to dump this one.. Do not keep her around for sex.. You are too emotionally invested for FWB.. You need a clean break from this hoe.

^^^ this ^^^ @soulforge it's gonna end badly she will eventually cheat on him too

 

[djdfuser]

GTFO of that relationship, OP.

 

[Murk]

As the guys have said, just get out now, you can’t be happy long term with her as the mother of your child, you want and deserve better.

The fact you’ve already begun to attach will make it easier, drop her and pick up with that plate for company and add one more.

I’m currently in the process of the same thing and spent all weekend with a plate and tbh it helps you realise what you want and don’t want in a women.

 

[soulforge]

^^^ this ^^^ @soulforge it's gonna end badly she will eventually cheat on him too

OP needs to think long term here.

Does he want to forever watch his back?

Would he trust her enough to have financial ties with her?

Would he trust her to be around other men, for example his friends, or his brother or the fukin milkman or the gardner? I certainly wouldn't trust her.

OP you still have time to walk away from this, years down the line it will be MUCH harder for you to detatch.