Don’t know what to do

[LiveYourDream]

I’m not attempting to justify poor behaviour,.

It seems to me you are doing exactly that.

 

[flowtheory]

Women appreciate when men are understanding. Women do NOT respect men that are pushovers. Never sacrifice your self-respect be "understanding."

I am by no means a pushover. If an issue arises I stand my ground steadily, and have no qualms about walking. I’m very understanding and do not wish to constrict anyone in any way. Giving ultimatums isn’t an answer; it leads to resentment.

 

[LiveYourDream]

I am by no means a pushover. If an issue arises I stand my ground steadily, and have no qualms about walking.

Perhaps that is how you see yourself. To me, that is not at all conveyed in what you share here.

What specifically have you said or done that would convey, you are not a pushover but a man who stands his ground, to her?

 

[lamath]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I’ve gained some insight from them.

I told her how it made me feel and she was quite receptive. I don’t feel she is on her way out at all.

She often talks about the future together and even invited me to Croatia for August. And always wants to spend weekends together. We have sex 4-5 times each weekend. She’s affectionate, often splits bills or picks up the tabs. Thoughtful. There’s many many good signs. Often asks for plans and wants my weekends. Last night she suggested I meet her friends.
Told me she really cares about me and it scares the heck out of her because she’s never had a truly supportive relationship.

In terms of the coffee dates.. one guy is another lawyer who she’s known for four years who she said she probably won’t see again. and the other was a wreck who just broke up with his gf and they talked about that the whole time. She has been very transparent about it all and even her doubts about her and I.

Yes there have been a few flags. But I don’t know if she’s been used to dating someone who is an actually good person before and she is scared. Her words.

During our talk about her weird dates she even said “during the dates I guess I realized that it’s good to know I’ll be okay and still wanted if it didn’t work out between us”. So yes, maybe it was a date and she was shopping, but she’s doing it because she’s scared.

She stated she would never ever cheat on me and I believe her. But given all her actions put together I can tell she feels heavily for me but is scared. And that part where she’s acting from scarcity or fear is still living. However it is only 2 months in..

I will go for another month and see what new circumstances present themselves.

I have met her at a weird time in her life given she was still in to her ex when we first met, however that quickly subsided. And now all at once she has been getting attention, and given that I’m quite full on it probably scares her a bit, so she’s simply trying to make a decision of what’s best for her.

At the end, if she was on her way out, we wouldn’t be having so much sex, or she wouldn’t be picking up full $100 dinners/drinks, planning dates, suggesting I meet her friends, inviting me to her hometown, or wishing to sleep over two nights in a row.

Open to having all this challenged.

Man i am not as negative as ppl here that advice is an automatic NEXT

But you should read what you just wrote a few time there is so many contrary things about her behaviors

You know what it usually means, you are getting blinded by the light.


You should put her on probation idc if she can logically explain her bad behavior.
Its not one red flag its a **** load of red flag.

Keep your eyes open she is trouble.

 

[flowtheory]

It seems to me you are doing exactly that.

No. It’s attempting to see it from her perspective and I truly believe she isnt ill intenddd in her dealings. Scared to invest her heart again? Yes most definetly she is.
Apprehensive if I’m the best investment for it? Yes. But it’s fair for her to be wary. Not all people are straight good to go for commitment right off the bat even if they find a great person. I dunno

 

[LiveYourDream]

During our talk about her weird dates she even said “during the dates I guess I realized that it’s good to know I’ll be okay and still wanted if it didn’t work out between us”. So yes, maybe it was a date and she was shopping, but she’s doing it because she’s scared.

Then in your very next post, you say...

She didn’t say they were dates. She was forthcoming about both outings. That has to say and count for something, no? She said she had that realization ON the lunch/breakfast.

 

[LiveYourDream]

No. It’s attempting to see it from her perspective and I truly believe she isnt ill intenddd in her dealings. Scared to invest her heart again? Yes most definetly she is.
Apprehensive if I’m the best investment for it? Yes. But it’s fair for her to be wary. Not all people are straight good to go for commitment right off the bat even if they find a great person. I dunno

I appreciate that you want to see things from her perspective and be understanding. I do. Being understanding does not mean you have to sacrifice yourself in the process. The concern I have is that you are sacrificing your own perspective and self-respect, by being excessively flexible/understanding, when her words/actions are disrespectful of you.

 

[flowtheory]

Perhaps that is how you see yourself. To me, that is not at all conveyed in what you share here.

What specifically have you said or done that would convey, you are not a pushover but a man who stands his ground, to her?

I’ve told her I won’t tolerate her going on one on ones, also told her I will walk in a few circumstances, told her if she’s going to say certain things that it’s unnaveptabke and I won’t be berated. Many times.

Don’t forget, these are partial stories of what I share here. And its sully only the questionable actions she does that are put forth. So while it’s easy to say NEXT, it’s also assuming all that she does is disrespect me. But that’s not the full extent.

 

[flowtheory]

I appreciate that you want to see things from her perspective and be understanding. I do. Being understanding does not mean you have to sacrifice yourself in the process. The concern I have is that you are sacrificing your own perspective and self-respect, by being excessively flexible/understanding, when her words/actions are disrespectful of you.

I’m not sacrificing my own self respect. I did that once in the past. Never again. I am being a good self with her and being understanding but if things arise which are not ideal, I do speak my mind about them, and that’s rooted in self respect.

I wouldn’t let her do anything that makes me dislike her or come at the cost of my own self. For real.

 

[LiveYourDream]

I am not suggesting you have to NEXT to her. Most men would. I get that is not you. A woman that is treating you as she does, with disrespect, should not be granted exclusivity with you. Yes, even if she is sexing you frequently and paying for dinners. She deserves to be downgraded at least. She should have to re-earn exclusive status. Respect of you, in her actions and words, should be absolute bare minimum, for her to earn exclusive status with you.

 

[guru1000]

I already dealt with Flow in this thread, but for others reading: I've never had a girl attempt this on me, even when I was young and naive. That's because it was always intuitive that transgressions (much less than than Flow's) were grounds to dismiss and I had no issue dismissing for any type of conscious disrespect. So I would dismiss and they would chase to redress. But most often, they wouldn't try as the unspoken boundaries of my character (and thus what I would tolerate) were superimposed in my demeanor.

My style today is not very different, just more nuanced in consideration of the full context.

I believe that is what distinguishes the natural, that is, a superior level of respect and value for oneself demonstrated through behavioral nuances, which speaks the unspoken. Boundaries delineated in your persona.

Honor thyself > Honoring others, is the cardinal distinction which would solve 90% of issues on this forum.

 

[LiveYourDream]

I’m not sacrificing my own self respect. I did that once in the past. Never again. I am being a good self with her and being understanding but if things arise which are not ideal, I do speak my mind about them, and that’s rooted in self respect.

I wouldn’t let her do anything that makes me dislike her or come at the cost of my own self. For real.

With all due respect...I think you are in denial.

I think you see "her potential" and believe you are investing in it. I think you are bending over backwards to accommodate/understand her poor behavior and disrespect, in hopes that she turns into a better woman and a solid LTR.

 

[flowtheory]

I am not suggesting you have to NEXT to her. Most men would. I get that is not you. A woman that is treating you as she does, with disrespect, should not be granted exclusivity with you. Yes, even if she is sexing you frequently and paying for dinners. She deserves to be downgraded at least. She should have to re-earn exclusive status. Respect of you, in her actions and words, should be absolute bare minimum, for her to earn exclusive status with you.

Since the conversation about her going on these one on ones, things have felt and become much better. I don’t believe she has a lack of respect for me. As she has told me how much I mean to her and that she does respect me. I believe she is really insecure with her and I from her own issues and baggage and is trying to navigate that as best as she can. And all the while she has been honest about things. Can fault really be pointed if she’s being transparent about not fully knowing?

With everything good she has shown me through actions and words, a couple insecure moments shouldn’t burn that all things to the ground.

But like I said, I SEE all the flags. I HEAR everything here people are saying and deeply appreciate it and will continue to better myself.
However I will give it another month and see what happens and if it progresses to a better place, and if it does not, then I will pull the plug. My self respect is still intact and she does know where I stand in many aspects. And I think that’s fair to sometimes give people the benefit of the doubt rather than jump to conclusions based out of fear and in hopes that there’s some woman out there who has no hangups or issues.

 

[sazc]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I’ve gained some insight from them.

I told her how it made me feel and she was quite receptive. I don’t feel she is on her way out at all.

She often talks about the future together and even invited me to Croatia for August. And always wants to spend weekends together. We have sex 4-5 times each weekend. She’s affectionate, often splits bills or picks up the tabs. Thoughtful. There’s many many good signs. Often asks for plans and wants my weekends. Last night she suggested I meet her friends.
Told me she really cares about me and it scares the heck out of her because she’s never had a truly supportive relationship.

In terms of the coffee dates.. one guy is another lawyer who she’s known for four years who she said she probably won’t see again. and the other was a wreck who just broke up with his gf and they talked about that the whole time. She has been very transparent about it all and even her doubts about her and I.

Yes there have been a few flags. But I don’t know if she’s been used to dating someone who is an actually good person before and she is scared. Her words.

During our talk about her weird dates she even said “during the dates I guess I realized that it’s good to know I’ll be okay and still wanted if it didn’t work out between us”. So yes, maybe it was a date and she was shopping, but she’s doing it because she’s scared.

She stated she would never ever cheat on me and I believe her. But given all her actions put together I can tell she feels heavily for me but is scared. And that part where she’s acting from scarcity or fear is still living. However it is only 2 months in..

I will go for another month and see what new circumstances present themselves.

I have met her at a weird time in her life given she was still in to her ex when we first met, however that quickly subsided. And now all at once she has been getting attention, and given that I’m quite full on it probably scares her a bit, so she’s simply trying to make a decision of what’s best for her.

At the end, if she was on her way out, we wouldn’t be having so much sex, or she wouldn’t be picking up full $100 dinners/drinks, planning dates, suggesting I meet her friends, inviting me to her hometown, or wishing to sleep over two nights in a row.

Open to having all this challenged.

you know what @flowtheory IMO, and this is only my opinion, first thing I would do is ask my man if he's cool with me meeting my ex'es. If my main said "sure" I would make it very clear while we were having coffee that, out of respect for my man, this was the one and only time we would be connecting.

If she's so into you, she should be focused on you and your life, problems, etc. Not being an emotional tampon for someone else. Being together is about being there for your significant other - not being there for rando ex that you havent spoken with in forever and a day.

She's admitted that she isnt making the healthiest of choices because she is scared BUT is she restraining herself from making future bad choices?

Im just sayin

Keep vigilant

 

[sazc]

Since the conversation about her going on these one on ones, things have felt and become much better. I don’t believe she has a lack of respect for me. As she has told me how much I mean to her and that she does respect me. I believe she is really insecure with her and I from her own issues and baggage and is trying to navigate that as best as she can. And all the while she has been honest about things. Can fault really be pointed if she’s being transparent about not fully knowing?

With everything good she has shown me through actions and words, a couple insecure moments shouldn’t burn that all things to the ground.

But like I said, I SEE all the flags. I HEAR everything here people are saying and deeply appreciate it and will continue to better myself.
However I will give it another month and see what happens and if it progresses to a better place, and if it does not, then I will pull the plug. My self respect is still intact and she does know where I stand in many aspects. And I think that’s fair to sometimes give people the benefit of the doubt rather than jump to conclusions based out of fear and in hopes that there’s some woman out there who has no hangups or issues.

so you guys are now on the upswing of the sine wave.

She complains about your dik, you fall into the trough of the sine wave, you talk about it and you are back to the crest. now she is "afraid and making dates, back to the trough...then you talk and you are back to the crest.

sinusoidal

drama

nope

 

[LiveYourDream]

She sent me this message last night without any promoting. So clearly I believe she knows that what she’s doing is a game..
“I just want to say, because maybe I would want to be reassured also, that I’m not going on a date tomorrow. I am seeing a sweet friend, whom I care about as a friend. I am not keeping options open, nor do I want to date anyone else at present. I have robust swatting away capabilities. I hope that works for you.”

Thoughts?

You talk about how honest and forthcoming she is. Look at what she said to you, in her honesty. She SPECIFICALLY added in, "at present." That is a big distinction. She simply could have said, I don't want to date anyone else (but you). She didn't say that!! She communicated that she doesn't want to date anyone, other that you, "right now." Why did she feel the need to add that in? It is a big distinction. It's not something a woman says to a man she is excited to be exclusive with. It's not something a woman says to a man she envisions a future with. She is telling you that she very well may want to date others at some point, and enough so that she wants you to be aware of that right now. Don't play unaware. Pay attention. She is being honest. She is laying it all out. I think you continue to accommodate her, in order to squeeze "her potential," through your rose-colored glasses, hoping to change her/grow her into a solid LTR someday.

 

[flowtheory]

you know what @flowtheory IMO, and this is only my opinion, first thing I would do is ask my man if he's cool with me meeting my ex'es. If my main said "sure" I would make it very clear while we were having coffee that, out of respect for my man, this was the one and only time we would be connecting.

If she's so into you, she should be focused on you and your life, problems, etc. Not being an emotional tampon for someone else. Being together is about being there for your significant other - not being there for rando ex that you havent spoken with in forever and a day.

She's admitted that she isnt making the healthiest of choices because she is scared BUT is she restraining herself from making future bad choices?

Im just sayin

Keep vigilant

He isn’t an ex. On the second time out she said she wasn’t interested in him. They contired to be friends for a bit. Phone calls, one other hangout. Then he dissappeared. He’s now come back and he’s distraught about his ex breaking up with him. And trying to get her back. She’s made it abundantly clear that she isn’t interested in dating or pursuing anyone but me.

I don’t know if she’s restraining. I don’t know if she believes she can or deserves a healthy happy relationship.

I know her last relationship was very up and down. And she even said last night she hasn’t ever had a supportive intimate relationship and she believes for the first time that’s possible with us.

She is a bit damaged carrying her baggage. But I don’t believe she’s so far gone. She is understanding and does care.

And me hanging out with my ex (whom I’ve been solid friends with for 2 years) makes her on edge. And she’s also not used to her boyfriends getting so much attention from women. She’s trying to navigate this her best too. And maybe she’s going about it in an insecure fashion or to show me she has value too. Just going abou things in a not so tactful way.

 

[LiveYourDream]

@flowtheory If there were ten or even twenty women outside your door right now, who wanted to seriously date you, would you still be hanging on to this one?

 

[flowtheory]

You talk about how honest and forthcoming she is. Look at what she said to you, in her honesty. She SPECIFICALLY added in, "at present." That is a big distinction. She simply could have said, I don't want to date anyone else (but you). She didn't say that!! She communicated that she doesn't want to date anyone, other that you, "right now." Why did she feel the need to add that in? It is a big distinction. It's not something a woman says to a man she is excited to be exclusive with. It's not something a woman says to a man she envisions a future with. She is telling you that she very well may want to date others at some point, and enough so that she wants you to be aware of that right now. Don't play unaware. Pay attention. She is being honest. She is laying it all out. I think you continue to accommodate her, in order to squeeze "her potential," through your rose-colored glasses, hoping for a solid LTR with her someday.

She’s said it in the past in person too. She’s said that because she doesn’t want to assume we will always be together.

She’s also talked about us being together until we’re old at Times too. So I believe she goes back and forth in her head. But like she’s told me too.. she’s not 100 percent sold. And I don’t blame her for that. The difference is she’s just putting that honesty out there, rather than withholding it like most would with their doubts.

 

[sazc]

@flowtheory I ask, again, is this really the way you think you deserve to be treated in a relationship?

Man, the time I struggled with how to tell a dude I was in an LTR that his condoms were too big.....the time I struggled for months trying to craft my communication when my man struggled with being a 2 pump chump.

My point is, I kept silent because I wanted to make sure what I said was going to not injure the relationship.

She's got verbal diarrhea and doesnt care if what she says hurts, and you're making excuses for her.... wow