Abortion With Kavanaugh Confirmed

What's Your Stance on Abortion?

  • Abortion Should Be allowed in the early stage of pregnancy

    Votes: 9 40.9%
  • Abortion should be allowed even in late stages of pregnancy

    Votes: 5 22.7%
  • Abortion Should Be left to individual states

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Abortion Should only be allowed due to rape or incest

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • Abortion is murder and should be outlawed

    Votes: 4 18.2%

  • Total voters
    22

AttackFormation

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For the sake of argument, the best one I have heard against other countries adopting the Scandinavian ideas of government is that both Norway and Sweden have been blessed with oil, and are thus disproportionately wealthy to much of the rest of the world, at least per capita.
I'll take this opportunity to clear some things up (TL;DR at the end):

1. We (Sweden) don't have oil, Norway does.

2. Nordic welfare capitalism has been extensively watered down by a particular form of capitalism, namely neoliberalism: deregulation (although it's not really "deregulation", it's letting plutocrats make the regulations), austerity, privatization. Add conservative labor unionism that doesn't seek transformative change but merely try to create a peaceful status quo on to that.

3. The "Nordic model" shouldn't have that name, because there is nothing revolutionary or unique about our countries. It's a very watered down social democracy, and social democracy is a kind of capitalism - welfare state capitalism.

Historically there were effectively three socialist movements:

- The anarcho-syndicalist movement which I sympathize with wasn't organized strongly enough here to affect change or require state violence to put down, unlike in certain other places like Revolutionary Spain and the Free Territory of Ukraine.
- The communist movement was marginalized by everyone else who saw how their seizure of state power in the USSR created a newly repressive regime, just as the other two branches of socialists had earlier predicted would happen: the goal was to dismantle the state, not to create a new state. This is a fact you won't hear any right-wing pundits mention if they are aware of it because it detracts from their necessary propaganda message that there is no "socialism" except the discredited states, and that any repressive state means "socialism".
- The social democrats, rather than instituting some kind of market socialism as many of those who today call themselves "democratic socialists" (picking that name in the early 20th century to distinguish themselves from the USSR) envision as a step toward full socialism, the social democrats degenerated into what we have today. A capitalist status quo which is reverting back in socioeconomic structure to the 19th century: tax favoritism for the wealthy (plutocratic government control, tax evasion and a tax shift off property and capital gains on to labor) and systemic polarization of wealth.

The European social democratic parties today are as much in the pockets of the plutocrats as any other party. When I asked a social democrat who knocked on my door this year if it really was "democratic" that the will of a few plutocrats overrides the will of the other 10 million of us in an example I gave on economic policy, he hurriedly shifted the subject.

But I diverged from the subject. What I meant to say was that social democracy is neither revolutionary nor unique, and it's being dismantled by neoliberalism. For example, I bet you've never heard of Simon Patten, the first American economics professor at America's first business school. The kind of things he took for granted that society would progress toward then would probably be regarded as "communist" today - and he was from the business school -, because our Overton Window is skewed so very far to the right and we are utterly ignorant especially of how banks actually work and what they actually do.

4. GDP doesn't measure wealth or growth. It's a totally cooked statistic that measures extractions of economic rent like interest payments and asset price inflations as if it were growth. But when something remains the same materially but becomes more expensive, or you go into more debt, the economy doesn't grow... it shrinks. GDP is a fake measure.

TL;DR: Don't let people either on the left or right of the spectrum "move your goal posts" about the Nordic welfare capitalism. Don't be fooled by either Sanders supporters or enemies who call his moderate social democracy "socialism". The left wants to use it as a success story of "socialism" while the right wants to discredit "socialism" but they are both wrong because there is no socialism here. Socialism in a nutshell: a system of governance built on positive liberty and workers' democratic self-management of industry and society, with supporting socialist economic theory of things like surplus value, economic rent, class relations, reducing working hours, actual technical cost of production, "rentier", etc. That is not at all what our countries are, they are formerly arguably social democratic, now neoliberal, capitalist welfare states.
 
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Serenity

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Well that's a contradiction, since capitalism serves the plutocrats first and foremost over the people by definition, that's what separates market capitalism from market socialism. But I get your point, you think social democracy is fine. Most of our ancestors when they could pick a side seem to have agreed, which is why we still work as much as medieval peasants for our subsistence despite being able to go to the moon :)
I think what I meant is the government placing restrictions on what companies can do, in particular if it leads to effects harmful for the society as a whole. Not sure how I should interpret the other part of your comment though, no matter which way you look at it we will have to work. Regardless of which system it is within that fact doesn't change until maybe we have good AI and robotics.
 

AttackFormation

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I think what I meant is the government placing restrictions on what companies can do, in particular if it leads to effects harmful for the society as a whole. Not sure how I should interpret the other part of your comment though, no matter which way you look at it we will have to work. Regardless of which system it is within that fact doesn't change until maybe we have good AI and robotics.
We will indeed have to work. The difference is in how work is organized and what it's done for. Every economy is 'planned', it's just a question of who is going to do the planning and what it's going to be. But this is SoSuave and I've already rambled with a huge post to BB... I go to Quora for this stuff and to SoSuave for game.
 

redskinsfan92

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Have you ever had a ltr? Birth control is expensive for women, which is absurdly stupid, given that society pays for a lot of the babies we fail to prevent. I have seen $60 to $80 a month, and that is with having health insurance.
Many forms of birth control are free and very chesp. Not my fault if someone pucks an expensive form. Don't ask me to fund your carnal desires. F off with that!
 

Bible_Belt

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Fzatf

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Bush sure was evil for going after them, eh comrade liberal NPC?
Bush wasted trillions of dollars on unnecessary wars. Not that there aren't evil tendencies of the Taliban, but it was not our responsibility to start a failed war on terrorism.
 

Spaz

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Bush wasted trillions of dollars on unnecessary wars.
True. I agree. He should have just nuked them with 1 single warhead.

Would have saved a ton of $$.

And every time there's a terrorist attack, nuke again.

That's motivation enough for the general population to rise up and slaughter their home boy jihadist.
 

EyeBRollin

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Oh wah. Women have to pay for birth control. So what? Why is it the obligation of others to pay for it?
Because the alternative is..... $200,000 is the ballpark figure to raise a child. Society will have to pick up where the degenerate parents fall short. Which is more expensive?
 

EyeBRollin

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True. I agree. He should have just nuked them with 1 single warhead.

Would have saved a ton of $$.

And every time there's a terrorist attack, nuke again.

That's motivation enough for the general population to rise up and slaughter their home boy jihadist.
Oh yeah, the solution to terrorism is the make this world completely inhabitable for everyone. Great idea.

*eyeroll*
 

EyeBRollin

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My ex's BC had no copay with insurance. Also I thought Planned Parenthood gave that shyt out for free. Even if it is $80/month, that's cheaper than a baby.

I prefer using a condom anyway.
Yes, it does give out **** for free. So why are we trying to destroy Planned Parenthood?

Baby killing is still murder as you've taken away it's choice to live.
Baby killing would be murder yes. I don't think anyone has ever advocated that.

Women should be more responsible and be held accountable.
No, it takes a man shooting his sperm inside of a woman to get pregnant. Men should be more responsible. It's mathematically difficult to get a woman pregnant with any one act of sex. For you, this has nothing to do with women. You just want men to not have any accountability.
 

EyeBRollin

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You forgot several alternatives...

1. Women not being wh0res
2. Women paying for their own birth control
3. Women paying for their babies
4. Dad's paying for the babies as well

Consequences impact decisions. If she has to pay the price for getting pregnant, her decisions change.
Imagine that.
What does any of this have to do with a man not shooting off his sperm into a woman without some sort of male contraception?

Answer: you just hate women.
 

Spaz

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No, it takes a man shooting his sperm inside of a woman to get pregnant. Men should be more responsible. It's mathematically difficult to get a woman pregnant with any one act of sex. For you, this has nothing to do with women. You just want men to not have any accountability.
Again wrong.

Spreading the legs is like eating. It's a person's responsibility when they choose to they eat.

If u r fat, the cook is not accountable.
 

Von

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Let say Abortion is illegal..

Now who take cares of the baby ?

(No one raised hands).

That's what i thought.

So allow Abortion to be légal but with rules (to avoid gender bias: male babies favored over female babies like they do for Asian families).

Be sexually responsible.

Dont get your partner pregnant if you both dont want kids at current state.

Change partner if you want kids and other doesnt.

Birthcontrol pill creates health issues in many women (especially young pregnant women, who get breast cancer), also when released from the women body through water... It fill drinking water with female hormones that guy drink (hence killing our testo)
 
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Spaz

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Let say Abortion is illegal..

Now who take cares of the baby ?

(No one raised hands).

That's what i thought.

So allow Abortion to be légal but with rules (to avoid gender bias: male babies favored over female babies like they do for Asian families)
Abortion is illegal in many countries, who do u think takes care of those babies there ?
 

Von

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Abortion is illegal in many countries, who do u think takes care of those babies there ?
There is an orphanage ? Run by a Religious group or state ? Parents who chooses kids based on their criteria?

Here they basically dont exist anymore.
 

Spaz

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There is an orphanage ? Run by a Religious group or state ? Parents who chooses kids based on their criteria?

Here they basically dont exist anymore.
By law, their parents r responsible for those babies until they reach 18.
 

Spaz

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Tell that to orphans or kids put for adoption
That's easy. I'll tell them that they were given a chance to live, to be able to see and enjoy what the world has to offer.

All they need to do was live life to the fullest of their potential and be grateful when many others were killed in their own mothers womb with no choice given.

That they r the lucky ones.

And for those yet unborn that you'd be willing 2 kill, what would you say 2 them if given the chance ?
 
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