This absolutely baffles me about dating

[Chi Town]

Dave I admire how your still able to get 4/5 page threads despite the fact that everyone claims to be tired of your trollness lol

 

[HankHill]

I'm better looking, richer and leaner than ever

why would it be different now?

You just try it and let us know.

 

[Bokanovsky]

So these guys who are very average in every regard with quality women, what are they doing?

Perhaps they don't reek insecurity and don't have a defeatist mindset?

 

[bigdave17]

You just try it and let us know.

I don't want a 35 year old, much less a 40 year old

I need someone a few years younger than me

 

[MountainSlide]

I see couples in public where the man is very mediocre in every way and the woman is attractive/high quality in most ways. How does this happen considering that you can't even get a date on a dating site nowadays unless you're a solid 8+/10, 6'0+, white (ethnic only ok if you look heavily European like mixed), etc... Real life approaching is about the same - you're not getting any kind of reasonable success rate unless you're the super elite. I'm very good to elite in most areas and even I'm not good enough.

So these guys who are very average in every regard with quality women, what are they doing?

1)are they just approaching a billion times and being okay with 1 yes for the billion rejections?

2)are they meeting these women through friends or work or school to where they can interact with them over and over? So why do these women settle for a 4/10 when they can get a 10/10 rich chad in 30 seconds going on match.com? Does the daily interaction make them fall for the avg male even despite her easily having a million times better options?

I'm very curious what you guys say about this?

Because they have game unlike you lol

 

[bigdave17]

Because they have game unlike you lol

you didn't answer the question

game means nothing on dating sites - you won't get a reply unless you're a 10/10. Game means nothing in bars/clubs - you won't get a first look unless you're top 0.1% of men. Hell I go out to bars and clubs and between face/body/fashion sense/grooming/body language/etc..., I'm easily top 2 to 3% of men and it doesn't seem to be nearly good enough.

game/personality means something in social circle approaching because you spend a lot of time with them so is that how these guys do it? Just rely on social circle approaching?

or do they approach during the day and the take the 100,000 rejections required to get 1 yes from anybody of decent quality?

 

[bigdave17]

And when girls GLANCE AT YOU, and read that subconscious communication, they DISMISS YOU IMMEDIATELY.

who told you this?

I had a cute insurance girl who came in to my job today and she was very receptive to me - we chatted for maybe 20 25 minutes, she was smiling and had very positive body language the whole time. Our conversation was great

she was a pale Irish girl though, no thanks. I need my beautiful Brazilian/Spanish/Greek/Italian/Armenian/Lebanese queen

 

[zekko]

You, as a man, are a work of art, and it’s your job to reveal the intent (personality) behind the art. It is not for men to worry about appearance. That is for women. It is for men to reveal substance.
<snip>
Women don’t admire looks to the level we do. They admire strength, confidence, and powerful presence. These are qualities that they don’t inately possess, and can only feel vicariously through us, hence their value.

There are the Chad type guys who can get by on their looks - women get enamored of them practically at first glance. But I think those types of guys are a very small minority. Most guys fall into a more average range. Contrast this with women. Take a section of women of a certain age - say 22 or so - and a high percentage of these girls are going to be very attractive to somebody.

But I agree, for most guys it's more about personality. A guy should look his best (be in good shape, be clean and groomed, etc). But girls are more interested in who they are than in how they look. This goes along with hypergamy, they want the gifted artist, the famous celebrity, the talented musician, the guy who leads the weekend climbing group, the strong emotional rock they can rest on, etc.

Like you say, women don't value looks as much - because beauty of appearance comes so easily to them, it's common. As men, we are so wound up in women's beauty that we find it hard to see this from their point of view. It's another case where men and women are so opposite. When a woman is attractive, it's obvious, it's easy to see, it's ready to apparent. A man's substance, however, that is not so easily seen. This is another reason why women take longer to fall in love - they need time to find out what the guy is about. Whereas the guy can easily decide whether or not he likes what he sees.

 

[Bingo-Player]

2)are they meeting these women through friends or work or school to where they can interact with them over and over? So why do these women settle for a 4/10 when they can get a 10/10 rich chad in 30 seconds going on match.com? Does the daily interaction make them fall for the avg male even despite her easily having a million times better options?

I'm very curious what you guys say about this?

you answered your own question

women are prepared to overlook a lot of flaws if the guy is pressing the right buttons

 

[Soflobro#3]

bigdave17...Your going to die alone and unloved....

Sad!

 

[Soflobro#3]

Big Dave you don't listen to advice.

 

[Spaz]

When you make a woman feel what she likes to feel, she allows her mind to sculpt your looks into something Michaelangelo might carve out of stone.

My gf of 2.5 years (a “9” if 9 means natural beauty that requires no makeup, looks like she’s in her late 30s) addresses me as “My beautiful [Name]” every single day. I’m not all that handsome, but not ugly either. Maybe 6 or 7.

But she sees so much “beauty” (to her) in my personality, that she credits that to my looks.

Learn to make women FEEL, and your looks, in her eyes, become equivalent to the degree to which you make her feel.

Have you ever seen a painting or a work of art that at first glance you thought was kind of ugly, but then something made you realize the intent of the artist and you developed a very real appreciation for that piece?

You, as a man, are a work of art, and it’s your job to reveal the intent (personality) behind the art. It is not for men to worry about appearance. That is for women. It is for men to reveal substance.

The trick to making your appearance inconsequential is to make women sense your masculine presence. That is why you see beautiful women walking around with plain, dumpy men. Those men make her FEEL.

Take my word for it... women cannot date down for any length of time. Those plain men whom you see with a beauty on their arm have learned to deserve the admiration of such women. When a woman admires you, you’ve got her completely.

Women don’t admire looks to the level we do. They admire strength, confidence, and powerful presence. These are qualities that they don’t inately possess, and can only feel vicariously through us, hence their value.

We men need to shift our thinking away from assigning value to ourselves based on looks over to assigning value to ourselves based on attitude and personality.

This "truth" will never ring true to many metrosexuals.

They rather look beautiful by going to the gym sculpting their bodies, getting facials, hair transplants and a whole bunch of anesthetic enhancements.

 

[AJ84]

When you make a woman feel what she likes to feel, she allows her mind to sculpt your looks into something Michaelangelo might carve out of stone.

My gf of 2.5 years (a “9” if 9 means natural beauty that requires no makeup, looks like she’s in her late 30s) addresses me as “My beautiful [Name]” every single day. I’m not all that handsome, but not ugly either. Maybe 6 or 7.

But she sees so much “beauty” (to her) in my personality, that she credits that to my looks.

Learn to make women FEEL, and your looks, in her eyes, become equivalent to the degree to which you make her feel.

Have you ever seen a painting or a work of art that at first glance you thought was kind of ugly, but then something made you realize the intent of the artist and you developed a very real appreciation for that piece?

You, as a man, are a work of art, and it’s your job to reveal the intent (personality) behind the art. It is not for men to worry about appearance. That is for women. It is for men to reveal substance.

The trick to making your appearance inconsequential is to make women sense your masculine presence. That is why you see beautiful women walking around with plain, dumpy men. Those men make her FEEL.

Take my word for it... women cannot date down for any length of time. Those plain men whom you see with a beauty on their arm have learned to deserve the admiration of such women. When a woman admires you, you’ve got her completely.

Women don’t admire looks to the level we do. They admire strength, confidence, and powerful presence. These are qualities that they don’t inately possess, and can only feel vicariously through us, hence their value.

We men need to shift our thinking away from assigning value to ourselves based on looks over to assigning value to ourselves based on attitude and personality.

Female perspective: agree that a guy doesn’t have to be a ‘chad’ to get decent women. He can’t be a total fat blob either though. Looks do matter to us in the sense that being completely out of shape with really bad skin and hair style is not going to attract many women.

But an average looking guy who is in decent shape and makes her feel good is going to go farther that an average looking guy in decent shape who doesn’t make her feel good.

Also women typically don’t want to date men who groom more then them, and who fuss over their appearance more than them.

Dave seems to do those two things a lot. What he thinks women want is based on his logic, what he doesn’t seem to understand is that women don’t operate on his logic.

 

[Atom Smasher]

There are the Chad type guys who can get by on their looks - women get enamored of them practically at first glance. But I think those types of guys are a very small minority. Most guys fall into a more average range. Contrast this with women. Take a section of women of a certain age - say 22 or so - and a high percentage of these girls are going to be very attractive to somebody.

But I agree, for most guys it's more about personality. A guy should look his best (be in good shape, be clean and groomed, etc). But girls are more interested in who they are than in how they look. This goes along with hypergamy, they want the gifted artist, the famous celebrity, the talented musician, the guy who leads the weekend climbing group, the strong emotional rock they can rest on, etc.

Like you say, women don't value looks as much - because beauty of appearance comes so easily to them, it's common. As men, we are so wound up in women's beauty that we find it hard to see this from their point of view. It's another case where men and women are so opposite. When a woman is attractive, it's obvious, it's easy to see, it's ready to apparent. A man's substance, however, that is not so easily seen. This is another reason why women take longer to fall in love - they need time to find out what the guy is about. Whereas the guy can easily decide whether or not he likes what he sees.

A really great post. You are spot-on.

 

[bigdave17]

There are the Chad type guys who can get by on their looks - women get enamored of them practically at first glance. But I think those types of guys are a very small minority. Most guys fall into a more average range. Contrast this with women. Take a section of women of a certain age - say 22 or so - and a high percentage of these girls are going to be very attractive to somebody.

But I agree, for most guys it's more about personality. A guy should look his best (be in good shape, be clean and groomed, etc). But girls are more interested in who they are than in how they look. This goes along with hypergamy, they want the gifted artist, the famous celebrity, the talented musician, the guy who leads the weekend climbing group, the strong emotional rock they can rest on, etc.

Like you say, women don't value looks as much - because beauty of appearance comes so easily to them, it's common. As men, we are so wound up in women's beauty that we find it hard to see this from their point of view. It's another case where men and women are so opposite. When a woman is attractive, it's obvious, it's easy to see, it's ready to apparent. A man's substance, however, that is not so easily seen. This is another reason why women take longer to fall in love - they need time to find out what the guy is about. Whereas the guy can easily decide whether or not he likes what he sees.

I dunno if I believe this nonsense that women care more about personality than men do

I care tons and tons about personality, character, morals/values, lifestyle/compatibility. There was a cute insurance salesman who came to my dealership last night and she had an awesome personality and I was instantly hooked on her. We talked for about 20-30 minutes and had great rapport (I didn't ask her out because she was a pale Irish girl. I don't do pale white girls)

I know I talk a lot about looks here but a lot of that is because I want the perfect all around package. I care just as much about non physical traits

 

[Atom Smasher]

This "truth" will never ring true to many metrosexuals.

They rather look beautiful by going to the gym sculpting their bodies, getting facials, hair transplants and a whole bunch of anesthetic enhancements.

You're absolutely right. All that stuff does is sometimes get a foot in the door. But paradoxically, more often than not, this type of guy gets exposed for lack of depth and thrown out.

These men have no idea that if you dress as if you have some some self-respect and take care of hygiene, that's all that's necessary to clear the "looks" hurdle with flying colors.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I dunno if I believe this nonsense that women care more about personality than men do

I don't mean to offend, but in my long life I've observed that men who think this way are typically unsuccessful with women, and completely puzzled about how to attract them.

You are VERY rigid in your thinking.

Of course personality is extremely important to men. But we are talking about initial attraction. It is not personality that attracts us at first. It is looks. And that is a twofold attraction. One is aesthetic attraction. The other is an estimation of her character based on her looks.

If I were you I would loosen up my rigid ideas and instead investigate the knowledge of men who have been around and have figured out this part of life. It's funny, yet sad, for an older gentleman like myself to watch know-it-alls flop around like a freshly caught fish in a boat. When I was in my 20s and I knew everything. When I got into my 50s I discovered I barely knew anything at all, and that's when I started becoming effective in life.

 

[bigdave17]

You're absolutely right. All that stuff does is sometimes get a foot in the door. But paradoxically, more often than not, this type of guy gets exposed for lack of depth and thrown out.

These men have no idea that if you dress as if you have some some self-respect and take care of hygiene, that's all that's necessary to clear the "looks" hurdle with flying colors.

I don't think I lack in character or depth. For fuk's sake, I take care of my entire extended family in Armenia, help out my parents and go out of my way to be the best son, brother, friend I can be. I can hold a good, intelligent conversation on any subject matter and I'm genuinely a very nice person while also not being weak, needy or dependent at all.

as far as your post goes, if that's really the case, then why is online dating impossible unless you're a 10/10 male model? Why are bars and clubs impossible unless you're a 10/10 male model? What you're talking about only seems to work with social circle approaching where you interact with the woman over and over again

If you're one of those unlucky bastards like myself who doesn't meet suitable women through friends, you're fukked

 

[bigdave17]

Of course personality is extremely important to men. But we are talking about initial attraction. It is not personality that attracts us at first. It is looks. And that is a twofold attraction. One is aesthetic attraction. The other is an estimation of her character based on her looks.
.

how is that different than women? like I said, you can't even get a date on a dating site or bar/club scene nowadays unless you're nearly perfect looking (and then personality/character come in to play)

 

[Atom Smasher]

Female perspective: agree that a guy doesn’t have to be a ‘chad’ to get decent women. He can’t be a total fat blob either though. Looks do matter to us in the sense that being completely out of shape with really bad skin and hair style is not going to attract many women.

But an average looking guy who is in decent shape and makes her feel good is going to go farther that an average looking guy in decent shape who doesn’t make her feel good.

Also women typically don’t want to date men who groom more then them, and who fuss over their appearance more than them.

Dave seems to do those two things a lot. What he thinks women want is based on his logic, what he doesn’t seem to understand is that women don’t operate on his logic.

Exactly. When a man dresses neatly (some might say, "smartly"), with a sense of style, the looks department is handled. That, plus obvious personal hygiene and keeping relatively fit, is the golden key to looking hotter than most other men. Looking "average" is not a problem at all when once keeps these things in mind.

Also very true about grooming more than women. For some reason, that is completely unattractive to them. Women want what they lack. Men want what they lack. Men cannot be "pretty" and universally attractive like women can (with makeup, clothing, other aids). In like manner, women cannot under-groom and still be attractive to most men.

We men have the freedom to be natural in appearance. This is actually attractive to women. To this day I wonder how women can be attracted to us filthy beasts lol.

My girlfriend loves my hands, and they are nothing special. She loves them because of the scars, which are evidence of a manly life. She loves them not for their appearance, but rather for what they have done in the past, what they can do now, and what they will do in the future. If I started getting manicures, maybe wearing some kind of nail polish, she would be repulsed, because my hands would be approaching parity with hers.

But when you get right down to it, I think female attraction mostly rests with daddy issues. Daddy was strong physically and emotionally. Daddy always took care of her. Daddy had a different smell than mommy with her pretty perfume. Daddy did miraculous physical work around the house. Daddy would always accept her when she jumped on his lap. Daddy was significantly different from mommy. Daddy was raw and strong and definitely mysterious. Daddy always has this certain quiet wisdom that he would express every one in a while. If she didn't experience this in real life, she saw it on TV and with her friends.

Men don't primp... they are warriors and hunters and they act. That is what is attractive. Men who act in life have no time for trifles of appearance like getting nails done. The natural "you", kept clean and with a nod toward style in clothing (and I do mean a very small not toward style), is what is attractive to most women.

And finally, shoes. The first thing a woman looks at is eyes, the next is mouth, the third is shoes. Shoes are massively important to women, and well-kept shoes cover a multitude of sins.