Wanted to see if OLD is as bad as eveeyone keeps saying. TLDR it isn't.

[JonnyX]

What part of sans provisioning do you not understand?

This is why you don't bother with incels. Yet they boss the frame on the internet. Pathetic.

I understand it is no different than a white guy going to Southeast Asia to maximize his SMV. Whether you give them the passport and big western dollars they want or not, it's still being dangled as provisioning bait.

Believe me, I have thought about this option extensively. I have nothing against it in principle. I even started learning a bit of basic Russian as my Eastern European friends tell me that's the most versatile language through all of EE. But again, you are looking at $1500 USD flight round trip, plus $1000 for Hotel for 7-10 days, then hitting on girls on the street all day so you MIGHT bang 1-3 if you do well. Even with 3 lays, you're paying minimum $833 per ****. And I can't fly there every week.

After doing the math and considering the practicalities, I dropped the notion. I could get a top notch hooker or SB here for far less.

I agree. Try being a middle aged white guy who makes over 100K/yr. vs. 20 years ago. We are now universally considered to be the most racist, mysonigistic, homophobic, islamo-phobic, whatever-you-can-think-of phobic, toxically masculine, white devils that are the root of all of western society's woes. Even white women actually write in their ads that they do not even want to be contacted by conservative men, even if they are white and good looking. It is a form of prejudice that is entirely acceptable, unhidden and even applauded and advanced by higher education and legislatively pushed by elected politicians.

Get over it cupcake. I'm hated on too.

Do you really think it is much different for short, ugly white dudes? Those incels who shot up their schools... were any of them Indian or Chinese?

If you're ugly and short, you need a little more than "meh. okay" to get significant results. Don't sit here and ***** you're not getting the results of a jacked beach bod if you don't actually have one, then tell me hitting the gym is BS.

That is because you are trying to make a difference in a medium that is almost entirely driven by physical attraction, which you are clearly highlighting as your greatest weakness. Did you really expect to swim in pvssy this way? Nobody gives a sh*t that you have a high IQ, went to France or make 6 figures when it comes to OLD.

And herein is part of your problem. You over exaggerate the message. Nobody is claiming a retard can pull 6 figures with enough hard work. Nobody is claiming a 5'7" guy can dunk on Kobe if he just works "hard enough". Nobody is saying you will date 9's and party at the Playboy Mansion if you just put enough effort in.

You're just reading it that way.

The message is that with some improvements, there is no reason why you cannot also reap the benefit of moving up a few ranks in the standard of women you normally attract. If you normally land 5's before all of these improvements, you should at the very least be able to dabble with 7's after.

To me, you either think good enough is all it should take to reap significant results, or you place too high of a dependence on things that are not as significant as you wish they were.

Lol dude. Did you see the graphs? Scientific fact white guys are ****ing the most of any race in America. The celibacy rate for Chinese/Indians is ~3x greater and rising exponentially:

Furthermore OKCupid has done race analyses and white guys come out way in #1 as the most attractive and successful with women:

https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060

I have not said race is the only factor you need to succeed. I've said that being white, handsome, and tall are the three strongest predictors of success, as long as you don't also have autism or some other major mental condition and you make an effort. That's backed by science, not my opinion. I've just given you proof of race. Do you need proof of height and proof of handsomeness being hugely important too? I think that should be well known already.

I can do nothing more to become ripped if I've already spent thousands of hours in gyms, continue to exercise regularly, continue to eat well, and I've even tried steroids. I've done work out routines with friends who are semi-pro athletes. I know what other guys are doing for their physiques. My cousin has had a six pack since he was a teenager. He eats KFC and pizza every day. Dude's ripped as ****.

I've learned life is not fair. I continue to make an effort. I will always make an effort.

End of the day, I'd definitely rather not **** anyone (or alternatively I'd rather pay hookers or SBs) than stick my **** in a whale. Again, if there wasn't risk of identification, I'd gladly post the "likes" I get on POF/Match so you can see that they're all >200 lb whales or one of the many varieties of profiles I've tried.

I'm not sure what environment is better. I've done clubs/bars extensively, streets/malls, tried going to MeetUps (usually 80% dudes), and tried all the online services. Overall, I prefer clubs/bars the most since you can at least engage with girls and not just be ignored. But the rejections are more brutal too, so none is really that great. Speed dating was okay too - highlights my conversational strengths - but it's hard to get a decent girl that way too. Got a few dates with a chubby 4/10 last time I did that but I found her boring (chubby, ugly) so ghosted on it.

 

[skinnyguy]

I think it's hilarious that people here actually think hard work solves everything in life and the world is fair.

Since when has the world ever been fair?

I was born with a top 1-2% IQ. This let me breeze through school and I now make >$200K /year on 4 days a week work. Was this fair? Not at all. I would never claim it was. If I was born with bottom 1-2% IQ, could I have the same? Again absolutely not.

There is an enormous burden of research that has well proven at this point that getting women is not much different and most of your success and failure is dictated by the genetic lottery.

For example, this is what is happening in society with dating for ethnic men (Chinese/Indian ie. "Other"):

We are at a point in society where JUST BEING INDIAN/CHINESE alone irrespective of any other factor will lead to a >33% chance of you not being able to get laid. And it wasn't like this 20 years ago. Culture is shifting and it is destroying certain men more than others.

Here for comparison is women's sexual activity, where you can see Chinese/Indian women are actually ****ing at record levels (just not guys of their own races):

Yet people here would just say "You're lazy if you complain! It's your fault!"

To get laid (in ANY way) as a Chinese/Indian guy you now have to be in the top 2/3 of your race. That's just for sex of any kind. To get a slim or attractive girl, you have to be top 20-30% minimum now in my personal experience.

Yet how do you do that if you're also born short or don't have a handsome face? Short by itself is also a massive strike against you. Read the struggles of guys on reddit.com/r/short if you don't believe me. Tall and average height guys always play this down because they don't have to experience it first hand.

I am not a lazy person. I am always busy and working on something. I have enough hobbies with high degrees of expertise in that I could work 3-4 other jobs completely unrelated to my current field at a professional level.

Regarding dating, I've been in and out of the PUA community for 15 years now since I was in undergrad. I have hung out with guys from my Lair back when that was common (not sure if it was) in the years before The Game came out. I have cold approached hundreds to thousands of women in clubs and bars.

I have spent thousands of dollars on nice clothes of every type. My social skills are way above average and always have been (again this is something I was born with). I have never had trouble making friends or succeeding generally in social groups. I have low inhibition levels and I'm not afraid to approach women or make an effort.

I work out at least 5 days a week and always have. I eat healthy and always have. Yesterday my diet consisted of chicken breasts, lentils, mackerel, spinach, broccoli, pistachios, blackberries, and my only cheat was 3 sticks of a Kit Kat bar. That's normal for me except most days I don't cheat. I've done intermittent fasting, keto, isocaloric diets, read entire books on nutrition and training, counted calories with myfitnesspal.com, done extensive bulks and cuts with varying degrees of excess and deficiency, tried different splits, tried more gym, less gym, more cardio, less cardio.

So after all that, am I ripped? Well no I'm not. I'm in the same "okay" looking shape as I was when I was 22. Well if you actually study the science, you'll learn:

"Asian Indians tend to have more abdominal adipose tissue, less lean body mass (LBM) and higher magnitude of insulin resistance (IR) despite falling in the normal range of body mass index (BMI) [1]. The high value of waist hip ratio in Asian Indians may be due to less lean mass of the hips and greater fat at the levels of waist [2]. Another study showed that Asian Indian men have low muscle mass and 30% more total body fat (BF) than other ethnic groups [3].""http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0040977
https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/2amv7d/are_indian_men_genetically_predisposed_to_be/ciww5n4

I have spent dozens to hundreds of hours taking pictures for online dating. I have had friends take pictures. I have taken pictures using tripods and timers. I have exotic pictures from travel. I have normal pictures. I have tried various profiles. I have literally copied and pasted profiles from guys who claim their profile is "successful" because it's "well written". None of it makes any difference.

The fundamental problem in discussions like this is that if you truly believe in a "fair and just world" where "everyone is born with equal opportunity to succeed", you cannot be reasoned with, because you are essentially saying someone with retard tier IQ can do as well in school/employment as someone like me, or that a 5'7" guy can be an NBA star as easily as Lebron because Mugsy Bogues did it once.

If you are willing to lie and twist about how the world actually works, just so you can tell yourself you "earned it" and you are a "harder worker" than everyone else, then there can be no honest conversation. Same with if you assume everyone who has failed at something is "lazy".

I am not lazy. I never have been. I have done far more than most in the pursuit of trying to become more attractive to women. I haven't even discussed my experiences with surgery or steroids. I still exercise daily. I still eat healthy. I still hope one day things will be easier.

But the actual truth is likely they won't. I've already maxed out my SMV as much as I likely can, and the charts above show the racial bias against men like me is accelerating annually. It will likely be >40-50% celibacy for guys like me in just 5 years.

Currently the only interest I can get is from chubby/fat girls who I don't want. At this rate, looking objectively at the evidence, the most likely outcome is that I won't even have that in another 5 years.

So sure, online dating is "easy". If you're so ridiculously attractive that having girls hit on you every day walking down the street is normal for you as it is for OP. We sure as hell aren't all born that way. And no, being born at a disadvantage and not being able to change that doesn't make you "lazy".

Excellent post.

Imagine Matt Damon coming on here and saying “you fags, getting HB 9 is easy!” LOL

 

[JonnyX]

First of all, the "other" trend line in the chart above is not indicative of the celibacy rate for Chinese/Indians specifically. It may include such ethnicities, but you cannot extract from this data the true extent to which Indian/Chinese men are contributing to it. You are artificially assigning this generally applied data to the specific ethnicities of your personal choice to further your own point. The "other" category would also include Hispanic men, for example, but it would obviously be wrong to conclude such men are 3x more celibate than white and black men.

Second, you are misreading the purpose of the study overall. It is not a statistical breakdown of racial preferences in dating. The data only indicates how often women believe men of each specific race are better looking than the average looking guy, and vice versa for men. For example, I personally think more Asian women are better looking than the average looking women compared to black women who are better looking than your average looking woman. But, that does not mean I do not find black women attractive and will not date them, or that I have a preference for Asian women at all. That is all this study is. Just because white women in this study tend to think white men are 17% more attractive than the average looking guy does not mean they will not date ethnic men.

Third, even if this were a racial breakdown of straight up dating bias, it still does not inhibit attractive ethnic men from being successful with women across all races. Even a 17% racial bias that is entirely unfair should not impact your dating ability to such an extent that you have to go on some kind of statistical warpath to prove and justify it scientifically. You would just spin your plates and not give a sh*t about those 17% racist b*tches.

And finally, you are obviously still going to get these very same statistical biases between men of the same race at different ends of the looks spectrum, no less when you try to compare attractive, tall, white men to short, unattractive ethnic men. You'll see the same statistical bias between very attractive ethnic men and short, dorky white dudes.

I agree with all that. All I was trying to prove is that race of a man plays a major role in your dating prospects. There have been loads of other studies that have verified that as well.

For example, one study looked at the amount of money a man must make to compensate for differences in race, height, or facial attractiveness. In terms of race:

For equal success with a white woman, an African-American needs to earn an additional $154,000; a Hispanic man needs $77,000; an Asian needs $247,000.

I am not chasing white women in any particularity. But the point is yes, race is enormous, and yes, being Asian (Indian/Chinese) is a huge handicap.

That study and other race ones are discussed here:

https://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.co...action=keypress&region=FixedLeft&pgtype=Blogs

Amante, if that avatar is you, you look like you could be a mid level Hollywood actor. I would kill to have those kinds of good looks. I have had many friends who are some combo of tall/white/handsome and I can tell you irrespective of any deficiencies in their personalities, they have never struggled to find women to date them.

If you lack those things, you have to work your ass off your whole life like I have just to get matches from some fat chicks. It's not easy. But no, it's not impossible either. If I hit on thousands of girls I will get a few decent ones. I know because I've done that when I was younger and used to spam 40-60 girls in clubs over 2-3 nights out every week. It's just very demoralizing and time consuming to do that.

 

[ubercat]

While I ll never be as cool as macaframalama (that hipster beard combover is epic) or have that weird muscle on top of my already football size shoulder muscle like Marmel I did awwrite on Plenty of Freaks. Easy guys just joking with my peeps.

I use it as a kickstart when I m back on the market. I ll spend a weekend being very active on POF. Which generate heaps of Netslutz.

Coz mainly I ll be resuscitating my social life. But pvssy from social circle is slow burn.

After that I ll pay attention when I got time. That gets me a couple of dates if I want them. Bit of cold approach (not my strength) on the days I have cojones.

And Bob s your aunt you ve got a rotation. Then you just farm your land and improve the quality of your girls (while keeping it wet)

 

[malz1]

Alright made a pof account a few hours ago. Getting a ton of meet me's and yes's. Conversed with a few chicks but for some reason can't send messages to new contacts anymore (reasons why?). Some chick just favorited me.

Surprising results though I'm a 9/10 in rl but the sense of urgency I get from rl women just isn't there online. Also the quality is lower in general. Online aint looking right for me.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Alright made a pof account a few hours ago. Getting a ton of meet me's and yes's. Conversed with a few chicks but for some reason can't send messages to new contacts anymore (reasons why?). Some chick just favorited me.

Surprising results though I'm a 9/10 in rl but the sense of urgency I get from rl women just isn't there online. Also the quality is lower in general. Online aint looking right for me.

If your dyck currently is not getting wet use it to build a rotation. You can always upgrade later . Our c0cks need homes .

 

[malz1]

If your dyck currently is not getting wet use it to build a rotation. You can always upgrade later . Our c0cks need homes .

Lmao. I'll see where this goes. Not quite there yet to my liking but the trade-off might be a convenient supply of pvssy. Maybe I've discovered something but haven't grasp its significance yet.

EDIT: I feel like a rockstar of the low quality chicks on here lol.. It's at least entertaining.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Lmao. I'll see where this goes. Not quite there yet to my liking but the trade-off might be a convenient supply of pvssy. Maybe I've discovered something but haven't grasp its significance yet.

EDIT: I feel like a rockstar of the low quality chicks on here lol.. It's at least entertaining.

That's what I'm saying. Let them give you that energy and attention .

 

[mrgoodstuff]

If you're not attractive and don't do well with OLD, it is not because OLD sucks. It is because you're unattractive.

Complaining you cannot find quality women on POF or some other OLD site is like complaining you cannot find wife material in a bar room.

If you think women online are std riddled, it's probably because you make sex too high of a priority, move too fast and stick your pen into too many trashy ink wells.

I'm a good enough looking guy to be able to kill it online, but I use OLD sparingly and I am passive and picky with my choices. I aim for specific types of women for a specific purpose, namely women who are very recently out of a LTR/marriage. Why?

1) They are seldom looking to jump straight into another LTR situation, hence are much more likely to go along with a FWB situation.
2) They are hungry for some good sex, which is usually lacking towards the tail end of a dead LTR/marriage.
3) They have not been on the meet market/carousel for years as other women might have been, and are just as much, or more so, concerned about STDs as any one else.
4) Whether a woman has kids or not becomes irrelevant, because no woman with her head on straight is going to introduce her kids to her f-buddy. In fact, sometimes this is actually a benefit for the man spinning plates because their availability is limited.

For these reasons and others, through specific methods of screening, I have had no issue with occasionally using OLD to replace a plate every few months or so with another woman in the same circumstance and mind frame; women who typically have their sh*t together for the most part and just want a new man to have some fun with.

I just recently plated an attractive woman who divorced 6 months ago after a 10-year marriage, just bought a $700K home, does not want a commitment and just wants me to be her handyman/fvck boy. She wanted me to prove I was STD free, which I happily obliged. Now, I go there occasionally to fix a dripping faucet or a sticky door and a hundred other stupid little things, then I just take her and nail her without foreplay because that's what she wants the most. She probably spent the last 2 years of her marriage fantasizing about this.

In most cases, if you think OLD sucks, it is because you either expect too much out of it or use it for the wrong purposes.

Awesome job!

 

[Macaframalama]

While I ll never be as cool as macaframalama

Good observation and nah, you never will, but no sense in pointing out the self-depricating obvious. I'm sure you guys are making 'ol Ned Kelly proud though.

 

[redskinsfan92]

POF is a horrible site. That is why you can't send messages. It's basically a scam. They want you to think your sending messsges, but not have success so you keep using the site. They let some success occur. Enough to keep people hooked.

Alright made a pof account a few hours ago. Getting a ton of meet me's and yes's. Conversed with a few chicks but for some reason can't send messages to new contacts anymore (reasons why?). Some chick just favorited me.

Surprising results though I'm a 9/10 in rl but the sense of urgency I get from rl women just isn't there online. Also the quality is lower in general. Online aint looking right for me.

 

[redskinsfan92]

OLD does suck, but not for reasons most guys think. It sucks because the companies running these websites are dirty scammers. They use methods that prevent average guys from finding a quality woman and leaving the site. They want that guy to keep using/paying the site. So, they create fake profiles, ghost block messages, etc. They have no interest in helping you find a mate. They do have interest in tricking you into thinking they are helping you.

 

[malz1]

POF is a horrible site. That is why you can't send messages. It's basically a scam. They want you to think your sending messsges, but not have success so you keep using the site. They let some success occur. Enough to keep people hooked.

Sounds conspiracy theorish bro

 

[marmel75]

POF is a horrible site. That is why you can't send messages. It's basically a scam. They want you to think your sending messsges, but not have success so you keep using the site. They let some success occur. Enough to keep people hooked.

I've banged at least 12 girls off that site so I'm pretty sure you are full of sh!t

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I've banged at least 12 girls off that site so I'm pretty sure you are full of sh!t

How long did that take?

 

[malz1]

I'm literally missing out on dozens of potentials because I cant first contact message still. Pof is looking like a miss.

 

[skinnyguy]

Yuck. The women on POF are ugly.

 

[malz1]

Cool bro. Stay masturbating

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Cool bro. Stay masturbating

Exactly . This is the exact reason player supreme used to clown this site . A bunch of guys jagging off waiting for the perfect "but she's HAWT" girl and he got no game .

 

[skinnyguy]

Cool bro. Stay masturbating

It’s better than fuhking STD filled single moms. Like I said I’ll wait months and months to find a normal good looking girl. I’m not gonna bang any chick like most guys on SS