When she tries to run game on you?

[upcoming_DJ]

Hi DJs,

coming back for some more solid advice! this is long but I needed to add the details for you to get a better picture.

here's what happened:

• I spent the past weekend with a girl I've been dating for the past 3 months. She came by friday evening and we went down to spend the night in the southern part of the country at one of my favorite beach resorts.
• We had a great time here - very relaxing. Sexed. However, first time experiencing this: she was riding me when she was about to orgasm (she's never orgasmed with me before with penetration and alluded from the beginning that she has always been difficult to orgasm from penetration) and she suddenly fell back and i thought she came but she was actually crying. I relax a bit. Ask her what's up? what she's feeling or what caused it. Up to today, she says its unexplainable and that it felt overwhelming. ok so i let this go.
• We then drove to the city where she works, which is on the eastern part of the country (and yes, my country is very small!) and we went out. Ok.
  
• We were at a bar and we were having a great time, when she started talking on her cellphone (on whatsapp). Now take note - I had already talked to this girl about being on her phone several times before and not only talked but showed her with my actions i wont tolerate it. She continued. So I took out my phone and mirrored her - and she seemingly got mad. She moved her legs away from me. So I ordered some shots and told the bartender I want the shot I ordered to be flaming (just add overproof or bacardi 151 to flame it) and my girl started arguing with me over this and raised her voice in front of everyone and we had a couple of back & forts until I decided I wont get muddy with pigs. Even the bartender girl was surprised at her attitude. I stonewalled her. When the bill came, I said here you go - pay it. Without hesitation she did! I knew she knew what she did was wrong and I would not tolerate it.
• So this already got me in a not - so good mood. We then went to a local club in the city and I ordered some more shots and drinks for us. After a while we switched clubs. Drinked some more. I was already buzzed by now. I then ran into my last ex from an island nearby and she was with her friends. Turns out, she saw me with the new girl and on one instance, they surrounded my girl and i went and pulled her from the group of girls. She looked at me with a WTF look.
  
• After this happened, she just left me and went to dance with a girl friend of mine from the city. She didn't ask me to go with her or anything. Fine. I drink some more. I get drunk.
• I was ready to go and she was still on the dancefloor so i walked out of the club and text her asking if she's going or she's staying
• she comes out, buys food for me and i ran right back into my ex and I supposedly hold my ex, and told her we would talk tomorrow (the following day).
• my girl then gets mad and walks leaves me. fine. she bumps into her best friends' boyfriend and I ended up walking to the car. There was a plate of food she bought for me at the top of the vehicle (I had no idea) i thought someone left garbage up there so i swiped it off the vehicle.
  
• we ended up going back to the hotel.
• HUGE argument - she literally exploded and screamed at me saying I was being a total ass and asked why that happened with those girls tonight and that she has enough problems in her life to want to go through **** again
• I took my bags and was about to leave and drive back to my hometown (2 hours across to the western side of the country) and she held me back, put my bags back into the hotel room and we fell asleep.
• Woke up sunday morning, a bit late and we had her nephew's graduation to attend. We slightly talked about what happened. She said she understood she overstepped her boundaries at the bar but that everything else was uncalled for. I said I agree to a certain extent but that I would not put up with any type of behavior. I know what I want in life and what I will accept. She then brought up about the girls. I said to her "look, that is the past and stays there - you've been with me almost every weekend for the past 3 months. you're getting my time. not them. not her"
• We go to her nephew's graduation. It's the FIRST TIME I'm meeting any of her family. She seemed to have been waiting for this. She brought it before as well and didn't believe I'd accompany her and meet her family.
• She doesn't know I know her only ex, but he was there and I saw him before she did - I looked at her to see her reaction. No reaction. Not to him, not with me. Cool.
• We went to lunch with her family. had a good time. everyone seemed pleasant. everyone was waiting to meet me. cool.
• I leave the city and come back home. She sent me a message late monday night asking if I've ever seen her birth mark. I replied yes. remember I kiss the constellations on your body" ... things I don't usually say because I'm not too romantic with her but do it once in a while
• She mentioned that everyone liked me! and its the first time she's presented any guy to her family and she was nervous but i made the experience so easy for her.

NOW. She then brings up THIS QUESTION and conversation went like this;

Her: "Can I get an honesty answer please ..... how do you feel about this weekend? about everything! the whole entire weekend".

Me: how do you feel about it darling?

Her: don't do that please babe I asked first

Me: tell me babe, i want to know. Don't leave out anything ... " (as per Corey Wayne)

****crickets*** she left my message on read. cool.

today, wednesday she messages me a picture of her at a staff retreat last friday. said:

"Edit for me babe"

"por favor" (please)

that's all .... no hi , didn't hear from her yesterday and she hasn't brought up her own question again.

From all this - what would you deduce from your experience and how would you proceed? I of course wont edit the photo for her and i wont answer her right now.

but very interested to know what you can deduce from all these happenings, her actions right now and what I should do next.

 

[Murk]

Seems a whole load of nothing here imo. She wanted to know how you felt about the arguement, meeting her family for the first time etc (which would be a big thing for her), you flip it back on her playing games (why?) and she's like "uh.. i'm not playing" and just ignores you. Maybe you think you have more frame than you do? Why would you not tell her you had a good time meeting her family? I don't read or study pick up so is this some game you're running to make you seem totally nonchalant? Not sure it's working. Maybe I just don't get this side of game.

Her asking for a favour without a hi is odd though, maybe she felt awkward from your last exchange.

 

[spred]

You should have dealt with her after the first argument with the phone, NOT hopping to another bar. She is not playing games, she is just acting like a woman.
Deal with these problems when you see them.

 

[Murk]

Definitely childish behaviour, how old is she?

 

[CMNILS87]

Dude she’s being a woman, pushing the boundaries. She blows up on you and you fight, you’re about to leave and she gets you to stay. She’s being bitchy and then you go to HER nephews party. Dude I would’ve said nope I’m going home.

It just sounds like a cluster**** of a weekend when it wasn’t suppose to be

 

[upcoming_DJ]

Definitely childish behaviour, how old is she?

she's 28 years old, however has very limited relationship experience and was a late bloomer. She has only had 1 "relationship" which only lasted for 5 months as she was actually the side chick until she found out! trust issues, daddy issues (dad hasn't been present since she was 7) etc.

apart from the above, she is highly compliant, seems to have a genuine desire for me (always enjoying sex together) and has been investing into the relationship.

apart, she has done about 80-90% of the pursuing since we started dating. so she is heavily invested

 

[Murk]

Talk to her about why her behaviour isn't acceptable. Some girls are just obnoxious, some are just inexperienced. She's obviously the latter so take the lead and coach her, could be on to a winner here. If that's what you want of course. Not sure how I would feel about someone I know previously having my girlfriend as a side dish, ego wouldn't allow.

 

[Murk]

But how to you feel about her one and only ex, that you know, using her as a piece of meat basically? Can you overlook that?

 

[upcoming_DJ]

But how to you feel about her one and only ex, that you know, using her as a piece of meat basically? Can you overlook that?

that doesn't make me feel a way. I've done it to other women in the past. Guys will do it. I will probably do it again, maybe even to her. No biggie.

however, on the rational male blog, I came across this, which DID bother me (or should I say my thoughts):

“She married you because you are a provider, not because she was attracted to you. She’ll never be as attracted to you as she was to her previous Alpha ****s.”

the fact that this guy affected her so much - he basically destroyed her ego, and she will "always" own a piece of her .... that really does bug my mind.

 

[upcoming_DJ]

ok so, yesterday she reached out again later in the night and I take the opportunity to open her up;

here's how the conversations went:

 

[upcoming_DJ]

and then this morning I woke up to this:

 

[upcoming_DJ]

I'd appreciate your wisdom here too, @lizardking82 and @BeExcellent and @mrgoodstuff thanks!

 

[Murk]

You from the Caribbean? One of the Smallies?

 

[fastlife]

Based on my experience, it's 3 months in & she's introducing her toxicity (or insecurity, if you prefer a nicer word) to the relationship to see how well you tolerate it (notice increased intimacy = increased insecurity). This is just the light stuff. You pretty much have two choices: You accept it & accommodate it & she escalates every so often until she puts you in a double bind or loses respect for you and blows up the relationship herself. Or you don't, you stick to your guns (in your field report you act like a tough guy but she calls your bluff every step & you orbit back around her), and she probably ends things herself to find an easier mark--or, less likely but still possible, she shapes up and feels more secure in the boundaries you place for her.

But those are your choices.

If you like drama, well here you go--there'll be enough to go around. At this point, she would be a hard next for me, personally--there are girls who are just as hot, just as good in bed, just as everything she is who don't come with emotional baggage--but she would've been strictly non-emotional plate status from the moment she told me about the issues with her father and her ex. That might sound harsh, but that's experience talking.

 

[upcoming_DJ]

You from the Caribbean? One of the Smallies?

yes I am!

 

[upcoming_DJ]

Based on my experience, it's 3 months in & she's introducing her toxicity (or insecurity, if you prefer a nicer word) to the relationship to see how well you tolerate it (notice increased intimacy = increased insecurity). This is just the light stuff. You pretty much have two choices: You accept it & accommodate it & she escalates every so often until she puts you in a double bind or loses respect for you and blows up the relationship herself. Or you don't, you stick to your guns (in your field report you act like a tough guy but she calls your bluff every step & you orbit back around her), and she probably ends things herself to find an easier mark--or, less likely but still possible, she shapes up and feels more secure in the boundaries you place for her.

But those are your choices.

If you like drama, well here you go--there'll be enough to go around. At this point, she would be a hard next for me, personally--there are girls who are just as hot, just as good in bed, just as everything she is who don't come with emotional baggage--but she would've been strictly non-emotional plate status from the moment she told me about the issues with her father and her ex. That might sound harsh, but that's experience talking.

thanks for sharing your insights based on your experiences, very much appreciated.

I try to be as objective as I can. I have been a recovering AFC and in red pill practice for about a year now.

I hold my frame a lot, and she hardly gets to me in ways which show weakness. I've always had high value and social status and like I said above these are things that naturally bring confidence to me.

now, what I didn't mention here is that when she's with me I get a lot of calls from different girls (that look hot!) and she sees the photos appear on my phone when they are calling. So when she caught me talking to that "ex" outside of the club, hearing me tell her that I would have called her the following day to talk things out -- well, I can see exactly why she'd feel the way she did and act out the way she did too. Women want a guy who CAN cheat ... not someone who does it! but she automatically translated that with putting 1 + 1 together = this guy is cheating! so it brought back her wounds of course.

As most of the time I'm alpha with her (rarely discuss or share feelings, hardly respond to her texts or calls and respond at my own timing sometimes days, leading her, not asking for her permission or approval, etc.) sometimes i do mix in some "beta"tudes for her not to give up completely or go into auto reject.

it's been interesting over the last year learning game and applying it and seeing how well women respond to it!

 

[lizardking82]

Every girl above 19/20 has some kind of emotional bagagge in her. This one seems like she talks too much and is insecure and is testing to see whether you're serious or not bla bla bla.

Solution: You focus on having fun, let her focus on the other things. Write to her when you REALLY can, don't play needless games. Smash when you want and can. Keep it simple, it will remain simple.

 

[fastlife]

thanks for sharing your insights based on your experiences, very much appreciated.

I try to be as objective as I can. I have been a recovering AFC and in red pill practice for about a year now.

I hold my frame a lot, and she hardly gets to me in ways which show weakness. I've always had high value and social status and like I said above these are things that naturally bring confidence to me.

now, what I didn't mention here is that when she's with me I get a lot of calls from different girls (that look hot!) and she sees the photos appear on my phone when they are calling. So when she caught me talking to that "ex" outside of the club, hearing me tell her that I would have called her the following day to talk things out -- well, I can see exactly why she'd feel the way she did and act out the way she did too. Women want a guy who CAN cheat ... not someone who does it! but she automatically translated that with putting 1 + 1 together = this guy is cheating! so it brought back her wounds of course.

As most of the time I'm alpha with her (rarely discuss or share feelings, hardly respond to her texts or calls and respond at my own timing sometimes days, leading her, not asking for her permission or approval, etc.) sometimes i do mix in some "beta"tudes for her not to give up completely or go into auto reject.

it's been interesting over the last year learning game and applying it and seeing how well women respond to it!

Awesome progress, bro. I know it feels good to have a woman competing, even groveling, for your attention--and offering confirmation for what you've been working on the past year.

But the fact that that does feel good makes you an easy mark for women who want a relatively high value man but aren't secure enough to hitch her wagon to a man who has fully actualized and realized his own value. I know it feels like you have the upper hand, but that's her game--as it is the game of all insecure women initially.

Competition anxiety is a necessary part for any relationship that exists within your frame--but equally important is how she responds to that anxiety. There constructive manipulation--buying you food, sexing you up, cleaning around the house, making herself valuable to your mission (do you have one?)--and there's destructive manipulation--silent treatment, causing a scene at a bar, distracting you from your purpose so that you have to give her attention to get back on track. Right now she's running through her 'rolodex' of sh1t tests to see what works--and right now it all does: constructive manipulation appeals to your ego & destructive manipulation makes you dance.

The ideal is that you are the man who only accepts constructive manipulation into your life--and you find a girl who's natural propensity is toward constructive manipulation. And that girl will probably have an awesome father who she has a good relationship with. Don't lose sight of the fact that this is a learning experience & it's up to you to test things to figure out what kind of girl you like. Maybe you want a little more drama; maybe you need the emotional ups & downs; but just know that those pros come with cons and those cons will be ever-present no matter how much bargaining you do. That's an itch I had to personally scratch for myself and, boy, I nuked it lol. Hopefully you don't have to go as far down that rabbit hole as I did.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady: I hope you are sitting down. You are going to get some tough love here.

less likely but still possible, she shapes up and feels more secure in the boundaries you place for her.

At this point, she would be a hard next for me, personally--there are girls who are just as hot, just as good in bed, just as everything she is who don't come with emotional baggage--but she would've been strictly non-emotional plate status from the moment she told me about the issues with her father and her ex.

I concur greatly with @fastlife here. I find it extremely hard to fathom that she would have almost zero relationship experience at 28 years old for one thing. If she is pretty she has had male attention since her teen years and perhaps since her adolescent years. I know I had attention from that age (12 or 13) and my 13 year old daughter turns every male head when she walks into a room. The question is, what has she done with all that male attention? How did she cope with it? Was she aware of it? At what point did she become aware of it? How did it make her feel? Etc. If you consider continuing down a relationship path with this woman these are pieces of information that are going to inform how she is habituated to behaving around men, and those habits in turn are going to show up in her interactions with you, and with other men. The sense that I get is that she feels pain and shame from what you revealed. You need to know why that is.

You are asking what to do about her running game on you. You are asking the wrong question entirely in my view. You need to be looking deeper at her character and what makes her tick. That is the information you need to mine to determine what to do next.

The thing from the weekend that you reported as well as the texts since indicate pettiness and gamesmanship (NOT to be confused with "game") going on between you. You are both behaving in a reactionary manner and responding in kind. This is immature and accomplishes nothing accept p issing off one another (as you can observe from the chain of events over the weekend.)

When she asks earnestly how you felt about the weekend, good, bad and indifferent, you refuse to reply and you throw the question back at her. THAT IS NOT WHAT A SECURE, MATURE MAN DOES!!!! That is what a scared little punk or little boy does. A MAN would have taken that as an opportunity to outline where he stands, what his standards of behavior are, and it was a great opportunity to exhibit leadership and exert your masculine frame. That is what fastlife refers to in the top part of what I quoted. Instead you revert to childishness. If you are to be successful in relationship (whether short or long term) with this woman or anyone like her, you need to show stability. From your stability she can begin to relax into your expectations (boundaries; frame) and you place yourself in a position to guide her insofar as acceptable behavior and you also show her that she can be secure in your guidance and your leadership.

Many of the issues I read on here from a number of the guys really come down to this basic problem. Lack of maturity to understand that game playing does not help you, rather it makes you appear weak, malleable, emotional and ungrounded. On a subconscious level those traits are repulsive to women. Period.

There is nothing wrong with vulnerability from a position of security and inner strength, in fact this is extremely attractive. But that is the polar opposite of the kind of petty behavior you exhibited here.

You yourself have some growing to do in order to manage your woman better. Concentrate on that whilst inquiring about the questions I suggest above. Trading jousts in the pettiness arena is not serving you well. Men lead and don't await an invitation to do so.

As you grow and improve you'll understand why fastlife suggests you move on from this woman with daddy issues. But right now y'all are evenly paired for water always seeks its own level. Hope that is useful.

 

[BeExcellent]

Competition anxiety is a necessary part for any relationship that exists within your frame--but equally important is how she responds to that anxiety. There constructive manipulation--buying you food, sexing you up, cleaning around the house, making herself valuable to your mission (do you have one?)--and there's destructive manipulation--silent treatment, causing a scene at a bar, distracting you from your purpose so that you have to give her attention to get back on track. Right now she's running through her 'rolodex' of sh1t tests to see what works--and right now it all does: constructive manipulation appeals to your ego & destructive manipulation makes you dance.

The ideal is that you are the man who only accepts constructive manipulation into your life--and you find a girl who's natural propensity is toward constructive manipulation. And that girl will probably have an awesome father who she has a good relationship with.

This is very wise advice. (You are on a roll today @fastlife). As a woman with high self esteem myself I generally default to constructive means of reinforcing behavior. I think to call that manipulation is not quite the right term but that is a semantics argument and relatively minor in my mind. However, I have also been known to employ silence and distance where appropriate and I have also been known to exercise withdrawal as well as confrontation on the rare occasion where that is appropriate to assert my own personal standards. The most important thing in dealing with a fight or conflict in a relationship is in the aftermath. I think it is both healthy and necessary to Monday morning quarterback things like the weekend scenario you described so that both parties can relate how they were individually affected and so you can together reach consensus on whether to continue, and if so, how so.

Right now this situation in the OP has been left largely unresolved and left to fester and metastasize into something malignant in the relationship. You guys are much better off to clear the air, hear one another, communicate, and learn how to handle things differently.

She has to learn she is enough (and not worry about whatever other women are vying for your attention - a tough growth curve for her in my view), and you would do well to exercise more discretion to allow her a bit more security in your interactions (I wouldn't like having other women paraded before me - I would withdraw my attention under those types of circumstances without drama or event).

So those are a few more thoughts on the matter.