Women say they want one thing but emotionally respond to the exact opposite.

[oldmanofthesea]

Once a woman expresses to a man that she desires to be treated nice, likes flowers or whatever it might be, the very act they request can no longer be a spontaneous and willing effort on the behalf of their men. A man at that point will only be doing what she told him. It is appeasement. It is not genuine.

This is SO true. My ex-wife was always unhappy and she blamed me (now that we are divorced, she's still unhappy - go figure). We were in counseling and she couldn't tell the counselor what she wanted - she said, "I can't put my finger on it - it's just..... something." So the counselor suggested she get a whiteboard and write exactly what she wanted on it. So she did and she wrote a bunch of things on there like "drop what you are doing when I come home from work and spend 15 minutes talking with me about my day" (AKA listen to me ***** and moan about everyone and everything), "hold hands when walking in public", "give me one compliment each day", "if I'm upset, ask me if I want a hug", "kiss me when I'm leaving the house", "leave me a love note." etc etc. I did all the things and she still wasn't happy. When the counselor asked why, she said, "Because he didn't really want to do the things or mean any of it - he was just doing it to check the boxes." I felt like I had been backed into a trap by both the counselor and my wife. This exactly fits what you mentioned in your post.

Prior to that point, I was confident and told her no when she'd cross the line. Example being that she wanted to make changes to the house that were expensive, that she didn't make enough money to contribute to, and that I knew she didn't actually want based on my prior observations of her. She didn't actually want the changes to the house, she wanted to "have a say" and this is how she felt she needed to go about it. She can have say but if it's going to cost me $10k and not get used, then the answer is no. But over time, she got progressively more and more angry and made my life miserable so that's how we ended up in counseling and I think the counseling was a death sentence to the relationship. It needed to happen though. I should have pulled the plug long before.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yes, I would say women often default to that.

His vibe and swagger is fine tuned to be attractive and trigger desire . It's no accident.

 

[dude99]

Do you guys agree with this? For example when women say they want a guy to take her out, be nice to her, text her all the time etc but goes for the guy that does the exact opposite.

What are some of your stories?

What a woman "wants" and what she is attracted to aren't always the same thing.

A womans brain is a jumbled mess. She wants the nice guy. But her emotions respond to the ashole.

She knows she should date a guy who respects her. And she wants to be treated with respect. But a respecting guy wont get her feelings flowing.

What she wants and what she responds to arent always the same thing.

 

[MatureDJ]

Dating nowadays is pathetic.

THIS!

 

[MatureDJ]

Once they get the relationship and the kid out of you then what?

What? We're guaranteed great companionship and sex on demand from a woman who will put us as a priority the rest of our lives?

That's what men of an earlier age DEMANDED in return for marrying them.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

We could demand that today what will happen?

There used to be laws In the 1800s that she couldn't deny sex.

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

To paraphrase what someone on here said: you don’t ask fish what they like to be caught by, you ask the fisherman.

Also I’ve found this bizarre logic goes as far as girls telling me they think I’m “awesome” or “really cool” and then following up with the rejection. Because clearly I’m not quite as awesome to their emotional side as their rational side lol.

At least you can take consolation that the next Chad will probably treat her like s**t and then she’ll stupidly moan that there are no “decent guys” as she bends over for Chad 2 and repeats the cycle endlessly. This can be quite amusing to watch.

 

[flowtheory]

@Amante Silvestre
@ohrein

Both solid posts. So what’s the take away; simplified?

Go after what you really desire in life, creating your own and in turn cultivate the relationship you desire with equipoise to her logical and emotional minds, so you don’t have to be told to do something which in turn may lead to appeasing her wants?

This all seems quite complicated to navigate properly while maintaining ones own equilibrium and with equanimity.

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

schadenfreude is no way to spend your 20s.

No offence, you seem likeable (just realised i'm using the too nice rejection that you just complained about lol). But you also have a habit of chastising chaps on here for using real world tactics that generate desirable results, whilst not obtaining results yourself and complaining about the effectiveness of said behaviours.

Genuinly wondering how long you're going to repeat that for, before you start experimenting with your approach some. Even just a little.

Gaining "likes" from the women here on sosuave for white-knighting in that way won't gain you a slap in the face inset. Because... thread title.

NO OFFENCE?! *Triggered*

Haha, I don't mean to be chastising anyone on here. In fact I spend quite a bit of time liking posts from DJs like Amante and Marmel because they know what they're talking about. I don't think I disdain anyone's tactics in particular, frankly it's not my place to criticise men who are more successful with women than I presently am.

HOWEVER I do have disdain for two things and I will call that out.

1. Treating women like s**t to the point of being abusive/outright woman-hating. When guys start advocating actually gas-lighting or emotionally abusing chicks to make them as insecure and upset as possible, I don't think that's reasonable.

If you want to go NC on a girl for a bit, or you're responding proportionately to a s**t-test or unpleasant treatment by a girl, fair enough. That's totally different from just saying "You should trick your gf into thinking you're cheating" or "Tell her she's a piece of s**t until her mind snaps and she's your slave." and I've seen a few guys saying that's DJ/alpha...I don't think it is at all.

Just like any large collection of women slowly turns to them all b*tching about men, there's also a tendency for large collections of men to start circlej*rking over how evil women are and how they all need to be oppressed in some awful way.

I just call that out when I see it happening because a lot of it is bullsh*t.

2. Using prostitutes and saying this is somehow "game", or even superior to game and dating.

Regarding the first, I'm not doing it to be the d-bag "white knight", I hate guys that White Knight because they're normally the biggest spineless, conniving hipster p*ssies out there. I'm not doing it to get likes from the female posters on here. I'm doing it because I honestly believe that the guys who think women should be ground into dirt and made to lick men's boots have a really f*cked up view of the world and that has no place in these discussions.

They're just the mirror image of crazed Femi-N*zis, and that's not what being a man is about IMO. It's not about being a bitter woman-hating nutter and trying to fight some sort of gender war.

Anyway I'm going off at a tangent faster than a rogue maths tutor teaching circles, so I'm just going to say that you're correct with regards to spending your 20's with schadenfreude is a waste of time. I do often feel like I've basically wasted my 20's when it comes to chicks, I'm heading for being a 30 year old monk at this rate.

But I'd rather that than bang the fat chick that sends me nudes on snapchat. Because not f*cking is better than f*cking 20 girls that make you loathe yourself afterwards, or 20 girls you're just not interested in even if they're fairly attractive.

 

[ohrein]

@Amante Silvestre
@ohrein

Both solid posts. So what’s the take away; simplified?

Go after what you really desire in life, creating your own and in turn cultivate the relationship you desire with equipoise to her logical and emotional minds, so you don’t have to be told to do something which in turn may lead to appeasing her wants?

This all seems quite complicated to navigate properly while maintaining ones own equilibrium and with equanimity.

It seems complicated because you're treating nuance as too important. Be a kind and calm person but be strong and confident. The rest follows naturally. If you're strong and confident, you don't need a woman, you won't put up with her poor behavior, you value yourself. That alone solves 99% of problems betas have. If you put a woman on a pedestal, you are not valuing yourself enough and beta behaviors will follow. Playing the game well really means not playing feminine games at all. You're not trying to use red pill knowledge to get perfect scores with a woman. You're just using it as a baseline for understanding her behavior so you can make better decisions for yourself.

Don't get stuck in the micro analysis. Be masculine, go for what you want, drop it if it's not what you want. Red pill is for understanding, not to get perfect scores.

 

[flowtheory]

It seems complicated because you're treating nuance as too important. Be a kind and calm person but be strong and confident. The rest follows naturally. If you're strong and confident, you don't need a woman, you won't put up with her poor behavior, you value yourself. That alone solves 99% of problems betas have. If you put a woman on a pedestal, you are not valuing yourself enough and beta behaviors will follow. Playing the game well really means not playing feminine games at all. You're not trying to use red pill knowledge to get perfect scores with a woman. You're just using it as a baseline for understanding her behavior so you can make better decisions for yourself.

Don't get stuck in the micro analysis. Be masculine, go for what you want, drop it if it's not what you want. Red pill is for understanding, not to get perfect scores.

Makes sense. Thanks for your input, as always.
I can get stuck in pedantics in many areas of my life.

 

[snowdog]

Do you guys agree with this? For example when women say they want a guy to take her out, be nice to her, text her all the time etc but goes for the guy that does the exact opposite.

What are some of your stories?

Men run on rationality.

Women run on emotions.

Always keep that in the back of your head.

If you want to get laid, being rational about anything won't get you anywhere.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

It's like an arm's race - first, the women try to get the better of men a la Cosmopolitan and the rest, then the men try to get the better of the women. Sigh. What we need is a return to good old-fashioned morality. Without it, you have this never-ending arm's race... that may or may not go nuclear.

Morality is the most practical of things - it provides a set of universal rules/ norms that transcends the divisive interests of each party. A large part of the problem is this incessant circling on theory.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

No matter what, up front she will be ATTRACTED to the player .

And so a man must avoid a dichotomous existence, whether it be the repression of Eros in his life [the Puritan/ nice guy] or the unrestrained and chaotic expression of it [the player]. You should give an attractive women a glimpse of that side of you from time to time... the seasoning on the substantial meal as they say.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

It seems complicated because you're treating nuance as too important. Be a kind and calm person but be strong and confident. The rest follows naturally. If you're strong and confident, you don't need a woman, you won't put up with her poor behavior, you value yourself. That alone solves 99% of problems betas have. If you put a woman on a pedestal, you are not valuing yourself enough and beta behaviors will follow. Playing the game well really means not playing feminine games at all. You're not trying to use red pill knowledge to get perfect scores with a woman. You're just using it as a baseline for understanding her behavior so you can make better decisions for yourself.

Don't get stuck in the micro analysis. Be masculine, go for what you want, drop it if it's not what you want. Red pill is for understanding, not to get perfect scores.

The primary problem of the 'betas'... that of specifically pedestalling a woman. But this problem is also relevant to half the 'alphas' here... they need a woman... though in more general terms.

 

[ohrein]

The primary problem of the 'betas'... that of specifically pedestalling a woman. But this problem is also relevant to half the 'alphas' here... they need a woman... though in more general terms.

True, it's not putting them on a pedestal but rather their vagina on one. They've broken the beta conditioning of perfect love and swung the pendulum to the opposite of pure nihilistic physicality. And so the game becomes about satisfying that desire which still requires "success" with women in another sense. Once you break out of that phase and become more critical about what you actually want, you can move to a more balanced game.

 

[greatsnake]

Never try to understand a woman.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Men should lead as women will naturally mirror the behavior.

I'd say the primary cause of the chaos we see today is due to men's failure to lead... at both the cultural and individual level.

 

[RichardTheFrog]

The primary problem of the 'betas'... that of specifically pedestalling a woman. But this problem is also relevant to half the 'alphas' here... they need a woman... though in more general terms.

It's impossible not to need them for at least one thing.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

It's impossible not to need them for at least one thing.

Well, they are not far off from producing an android for that.