So what are women's complaints?

[bigdave17]

I think Dash covers the biggest bases. After men start dating a woman I'd add two things:

1. Supplicating behavior (do NOT hump a woman's leg people - it is an attraction killer) otherwise known as putting the woman on a pedestal...major turn off
2. Disrespectful behavior

To expound on my two points the balance is in between these two things...with the see-saw more toward disrespect than supplication. I think it is easier for a man to calibrate down from disrespectful behavior than to dial up self respecting behavior to eliminate supplication.

In fact you'll see AFC guys go from chump to ass hole and over time learn to reel the ass holery back in a bit to get to right balance around here. The pendulum swings from hard left to hard right before reaching calibration in the middle if a man is striving to figure himself out and also figure out how he relates to others.

Somewhere recently Guru made a comment along the lines of there aren't enough ass holes on here who need to dial it back - as those guys generally aren't here and are doing fine out there - but there are any number of guys on here who need to learn to be more assertive and more in the mind set of putting themselves first. And I also see a core of men here who are well calibrated already, mature, and plenty masculine without being d i c k s. Those are the men who do best with women.

Frankly I tend to gravitate toward men with plenty of ass hole qualities, and so at times I deal with disrespectful behaviors to a degree. But I know what type of men I'm dealing with and I had a father and other male relatives of the same ilk, so it's something I know well, am accustomed to handling, and have the self-esteem and the tools to deal with through my own self-respect.

Women at some point have to decide what they are willing to tolerate, just as men do. There are no perfect people out there and we can't take one person's positive qualities and mix them with another person's and eliminate all negatives. If only, lol. I'd rather have a man who is assertive, leads, and is unapologetic about what he wants out of life than someone who has no direction and can't figure out what direction to go.

so explain to me why I struggle so miserably to get dates

I'm extremely driven, ambitious, hard working and obviously successful. Realistically, I'm top 0.1% of men for financial status for guys in my age range
I'm not needy or clingy or supplicating at all but I'm super nice, caring and affectionate. I'm that perfect balance of being genuinely very nice without being a pushover ***** at all, never afraid to voice my opinion, never smother a woman with too much affection or attention. I balance these traits perfectly

I'm also good looking and take fantastic care of myself.

 

[ohrein]

so explain to me why I struggle so miserably to get dates

I'm extremely driven, ambitious, hard working and obviously successful. Realistically, I'm top 0.1% of men for financial status for guys in my age range
I'm not needy or clingy or supplicating at all but I'm super nice, caring and affectionate. I'm that perfect balance of being genuinely very nice without being a pushover ***** at all, never afraid to voice my opinion, never smother a woman with too much affection or attention. I balance these traits perfectly

I'm also good looking and take fantastic care of myself.

You've worked too much on external and not internal. You do not have the mindset of a DJ.

 

[flowtheory]

so explain to me why I struggle so miserably to get dates

I'm extremely driven, ambitious, hard working and obviously successful. Realistically, I'm top 0.1% of men for financial status for guys in my age range
I'm not needy or clingy or supplicating at all but I'm super nice, caring and affectionate. I'm that perfect balance of being genuinely very nice without being a pushover ***** at all, never afraid to voice my opinion, never smother a woman with too much affection or attention. I balance these traits perfectly

I'm also good looking and take fantastic care of myself.

It wouldn’t make sense that someone who is all of those things struggles. You essentially just described the perfect male....

So I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’re deceiving yourself in some way. Because if you were all those things and could formulate a sentence in person, you’d have many women around you. Unless you’re a recluse or talk to no one

 

[bigdave17]

You've worked too much on external and not internal. You do not have the mindset of a DJ.

a lot of those traits are internal

Here's the way I look at interpersonal relationships - I am going to do my best to give people attention, make them feel special, be very agreeable but never be a *****, never be afraid to voice my opinion, never be needy or clingy in the slightest bit

It's all about the balancing act - to me it comes very naturally. I'm going to come across as a great person (which I am) but never come across as weak or needy in any way.

 

[BeExcellent]

The fact that females are incapable of that manual labor is what bothers me about the fact that they don't respect it, or think it's beneath them.

Garbage men, auto mechanics, construction workers, electricians, plumbers, etc, etc...

Imagine if they just stopped. Their work makes the world go 'round. Not wimpy little office workers.

Females are not incapable Richard. I've laid plenty of tile, installed backsplashes, including with natural marble, done trim carpentry, plaster work (I'm better at plaster than anyone else I've come across), roofing, painting, refinishing of wood floors, mudded dry wall, done brickwork and stone work and taken down full sized trees with a chain saw and designed and installed tons of landscaping. Sometimes I cut my own grass. So I've done plenty of manual labor on properties I own and have an interest in (as you are doing now). Doing all that taught me a great deal about what those trades involve, what to look for, what things cost, and how to manage jobs and costs. Extremely valuable information.

But my time is better spent working from the neck up. I make more money finding new deals and doing my consulting business than I will ever earn painting or laying tile, which is why I never did it for anyone other than myself. It actually was costing me money (in lost consulting income) to do my own painting and tile. So I quit doing that.

 

[ohrein]

a lot of those traits are internal

Here's the way I look at interpersonal relationships - I am going to do my best to give people attention, make them feel special, be very agreeable but never be a *****, never be afraid to voice my opinion, never be needy or clingy in the slightest bit

Everything you listed about your interpersonal relationships are external qualities. It's what you act out, not what is inside your head. Do you care if you have a woman in your life? If you stopped interacting with women completely, would you enjoy your life? Do you think you deserve a woman in your life? Do you need a woman in your life? Do you have any doubts about the value you provide to a woman?

You don't have to answer those questions publicly, but you do need to answer them to yourself honestly. There is something in your mindset that is holding you back and you need to do some soul searching to figure it out.

 

[RichardTheFrog]

Females are not incapable Richard. I've laid plenty of tile, installed backsplashes, including with natural marble, done trim carpentry, plaster work (I'm better at plaster than anyone else I've come across), roofing, painting, refinishing of wood floors, mudded dry wall, done brickwork and stone work and taken down full sized trees with a chain saw and designed and installed tons of landscaping. Sometimes I cut my own grass. So I've done plenty of manual labor on properties I own and have an interest in (as you are doing now). Doing all that taught me a great deal about what those trades involve, what to look for, what things cost, and how to manage jobs and costs. Extremely valuable information.

But my time is better spent working from the neck up. I make more money finding new deals and doing my consulting business than I will ever earn painting or laying tile, which is why I never did it for anyone other than myself. It actually was costing me money (in lost consulting income) to do my own painting and tile. So I quit doing that.

Well I've hired on a few occasions a husband/wife team to do work. The wife always sits on her a$$ and does nothing, while the husband does the work.

I still won't believe that females could do that work until I see it. If I posted an ad looking for labor and a girl responded, I probably wouldn't even get back to her.

Then explain why 99% of people who do these jobs are male.

 

[BeExcellent]

so explain to me why I struggle so miserably to get dates

I'm extremely driven, ambitious, hard working and obviously successful. Realistically, I'm top 0.1% of men for financial status for guys in my age range
I'm not needy or clingy or supplicating at all but I'm super nice, caring and affectionate. I'm that perfect balance of being genuinely very nice without being a pushover ***** at all, never afraid to voice my opinion, never smother a woman with too much affection or attention. I balance these traits perfectly

I'm also good looking and take fantastic care of myself.

Something isn't adding up. For all your posts you think you are perfect and so you think you deserve perfection. That attitude is both arrogant and entitled and you reek of both attitudes in your content here. So if I were a betting person I would wager that these same attitudes double whammy you in dating.

You think nobody is good enough for you and you think you are God's gift to women. So congratulations! You win the grand prize: Quality time with Dave.

 

[BeExcellent]

Then explain why 99% of people who do these jobs are male

Because the women are smart enough to work from the neck up. Couldn't resist.

 

[bigdave17]

Something isn't adding up. For all your posts you think you are perfect and so you think you deserve perfection. That attitude is both arrogant and entitled and you reek of both attitudes in your content here. So if I were a betting person I would wager that these same attitudes double whammy you in dating.

You think nobody is good enough for you and you think you are God's gift to women. So congratulations! You win the grand prize: Quality time with Dave.

are you drunk??

I see a hot girl at a gym and I automatically think that she would never want to be with me. How am I arrogant or entitled? Just making myself approach a hottie somewhere is just excruciating.

 

[BeExcellent]

You don't have to answer those questions publicly, but you do need to answer them to yourself honestly. There is something in your mindset that is holding you back and you need to do some soul searching to figure it out.

In all seriousness Dave the above is what you need to do. You ARE an attractive man according to your pictures. Nobody is universally attractive, but you're attractive enough to do just fine in the dating realm. So you gotta figure out the internal stuff. That is where your hang up lies.

 

[BeExcellent]

are you drunk??

I see a hot girl at a gym and I automatically think that she would never want to be with me. How am I arrogant or entitled? Just making myself approach a hottie somewhere is just excruciating.

Exactly.

You say you are XYZ, PDQ and what every woman wants, and yet you struggle to approach. This is a mind set problem. So your internal value dialogue is opposed to your exterior presentation. It is cognitive dissonance off the charts.

You also say you only want women of a certain age, that you don't want a white girl because they age poorly, that you want no one over 30, no one with kids, etc. etc. etc. All that is fine. We all have our preferences, but before you whittle the field down to nothing but the women EVERY swinging d ick wants, work on your internal dialogue to approach someone attractive.

And don't let your mind automatically tear her completely down the way you tear yourself completely down.

And no, I'm not drunk.

 

[bigdave17]

. Do you care if you have a woman in your life? If you stopped interacting with women completely, would you enjoy your life? Do you think you deserve a woman in your life? Do you need a woman in your life? Do you have any doubts about the value you provide to a woman?

great questions here

1)I don't have a woman in my life, I've never had one. I've had some casual flings with ladies that I was not interested in at all but that's completely worthless. I've never dated anybody or had anything meaningful with a woman I wanted to really be with.
2)I don't interact with women much now. I haven't even had a date for half a year now
3)Do I think I deserve a woman in my life? I'm confused here
4)Do I need a woman in my life? The rest of my life is perfect but I've wanted a GF now for 14 years to no avail. I wish I had a GF, would I say I NEED it? No, I need food and air. Nobody needs a GF. If I ever meet anybody, I don't expect it to radically change my life...it will just give me something I've wanted for 14 years. I'm not in that boat of guys who have sh*tty awful lives who think that a GF would somehow change everything. I'm just wanting someone to add to my life, not to be my life
5)Do I have any doubts about my value? no I think I would be a fantastic partner. I just don't ever get the opportunity

 

[bigdave17]

Exactly.

You say you are XYZ, PDQ and what every woman wants, and yet you struggle to approach. This is a mind set problem. So your internal value dialogue is opposed to your exterior presentation. It is cognitive dissonance off the charts.

I know consciously that I'm a very good catch

but in my head, it's not enough. It's never enough. In my head, I need to be 10 levels more perfect to be good enough for a woman

In my head, no woman ever wants to be approached or wants to meet a man anyways. I feel like I'm committing a crime if I start talking to a cute girl at my gym and she would be massively annoyed. I think I have intense love shyness

You also say you only want women of a certain age, that you don't want a white girl because they age poorly, that you want no one over 30, no one with kids, etc. etc. etc. All that is fine. We are have our preferences, but before you whittle the field down to nothing but the women EVERY swinging d ick wants, work on your internal dialogue to approach someone attractive.

Most guys would prefer white girls over Arab or Spanish (which is my preference)

my preference is more my own taste than only wanting the best of the best

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady FWIW:

This is not to be a jerk or a jack ass. Really look at your responses below.

3)Do I think I deserve a woman in my life? I'm confused here

I think the honest answer to this question is "No" on a subconscious level. How can you re-program this attitude?

5)Do I have any doubts about my value? no I think I would be a fantastic partner. I just don't ever get the opportunity

I think the above statement represents massive denial and delusion. I think you doubt your value even though on paper you have HIGH value.

4)Do I need a woman in my life? The rest of my life is perfect but I've wanted a GF now for 14 years to no avail. I wish I had a GF, would I say I NEED it? No, I need food and air. Nobody needs a GF. If I ever meet anybody, I don't expect it to radically change my life...it will just give me something I've wanted for 14 years. I'm not in that boat of guys who have sh*tty awful lives who think that a GF would somehow change everything. I'm just wanting someone to add to my life, not to be my life

Entirely conflicting statement; illogical. If your life is perfect you don't need or want a GF. If you need or want a GF your life is not perfect, i.e. not as you envision it to be complete.

Can you see your own self dialogue reflected back at you for what it really is? Honestly I commend you for putting yourself out there on here. You have to get over around and through your own mental "stuff" to get to a place where you have the attitude necessary to pursue what you desire.

 

[ohrein]

1)I don't have a woman in my life, I've never had one. I've had some casual flings with ladies that I was not interested in at all but that's completely worthless. I've never dated anybody or had anything meaningful with a woman I wanted to really be with.

I was asking more if you care if you have a woman. Does it bother you that you don't?

2)I don't interact with women much now. I haven't even had a date for half a year now

And are you still loving your life?

3)Do I think I deserve a woman in my life? I'm confused here

Trying to figure out if you feel entitled to a woman. Entitlement is the core issue with incels. They think they deserve a woman by virtue of merely existing. Other guys like yourself with high SMV might feel like they've earned it with their value alone. I don't think this is relevant to you though so that's okay.

4)Do I need a woman in my life? The rest of my life is perfect but I've wanted a GF now for 14 years to no avail. I wish I had a GF, would I say I NEED it? No, I need food and air. Nobody needs a GF. If I ever meet anybody, I don't expect it to radically change my life...it will just give me something I've wanted for 14 years. I'm not in that boat of guys who have sh*tty awful lives who think that a GF would somehow change everything. I'm just wanting someone to add to my life, not to be my life

So you are probably mildly outcome dependent. You view women with a lens of a future partner (which is fine, that's screening) but perhaps that want for a girlfriend is strong enough to erode some of your confidence? It changes the dynamic when you want a girl too much from a carefree and fun experience into a pressure cooker of qualification. Qualifying a woman shouldn't be a shopping list you go through with her, it should reveal itself naturally as you just have fun with her.

I still think this is a mindset issue. You definitely do not have an abundance mindset as you don't think there are many quality women (which is true, but there are enough to find more) and I think that this leaks out of you in your interactions and in your confidence. Would that sound about right?

5)Do I have any doubts about my value? no I think I would be a fantastic partner. I just don't ever get the opportunity

So you think you provide a masculine and fun personality outside of your on paper SMV?

 

[AJ84]

great questions here

1)I don't have a woman in my life, I've never had one. I've had some casual flings with ladies that I was not interested in at all but that's completely worthless. I've never dated anybody or had anything meaningful with a woman I wanted to really be with.
2)I don't interact with women much now. I haven't even had a date for half a year now
3)Do I think I deserve a woman in my life? I'm confused here
4)Do I need a woman in my life? The rest of my life is perfect but I've wanted a GF now for 14 years to no avail. I wish I had a GF, would I say I NEED it? No, I need food and air. Nobody needs a GF. If I ever meet anybody, I don't expect it to radically change my life...it will just give me something I've wanted for 14 years. I'm not in that boat of guys who have sh*tty awful lives who think that a GF would somehow change everything. I'm just wanting someone to add to my life, not to be my life
5)Do I have any doubts about my value? no I think I would be a fantastic partner. I just don't ever get the opportunity

Your first point, right there Dave. You don't consider your causal flings as having any worth. You mentioned many times that you don't want something causal and just want to meet your ideal woman. You have listed so many things wrong about the women that do approach you.

Dave, this is literally no different than a woman holding out for Prince Charming and passing up on opportunities to date other people while waiting.

Because you are, in fact, waiting. If you're not trying to hook up with other girls even if they aren't your ideal you are waiting.

Causally date. Do it Dave. Who cares if they aren't the Armanian/ Latina/black don't crack mix you want to marry. Until you meet that ideal girl, have sex with other girls!!

Those experiences, while not your ideal, are not worthless because dating and having sex with women, ideal or not, will boost your confidence, relax you, and ease your anxiety around approaching the kinds of women you really want.

Every guy here has an ideal girl they want, but Dave they're not passing up on dating other girls who are not the ideal, they're just not settling for them.

I'm not saying you have to go and hook up with a land whale but if there is anything at all appealing about the women who are showing interest GO FOR IT.

 

[bigdave17]

Advice from the old lady FWIW:

You're one of the most intelligent posters here by far. I hope you know I appreciate your help tremendously

I think the honest answer to this question is "No" on a subconscious level. How can you re-program this attitude?

I don't know

I've made dating out to be so difficult in my head and women to be so impossibly unreasonable that I can't climb out of this black hole of hopelessness.

I think the above statement represents massive denial and delusion. I think you doubt your value even though on paper you have HIGH value.

I actually have 100% confidence in my ability to handle myself well in a relationship

my problem is the process required to get to that point is unbelievably difficult

Entirely conflicting statement; illogical. If your life is perfect you don't need or want a GF. If you need or want a GF your life is not perfect, i.e. not as you envision it to be complete.

Can you see your own self dialogue reflected back at you for what it really is? Honestly I commend you for putting yourself out there on here. You have to get over around and through your own mental "stuff" to get to a place where you have the attitude necessary to pursue what you desire.

I don't give a f*ck if you're the strongest, most independent soul in the world...going your whole life with zero meaningful dating experience will terrorize anybody mentally. Humans are social creatures. Have you ever met a forever alone permanently single type dude who was mentally healthy and balanced? I haven't either because it doesn't exist

My life outside of dating is perfect, but the fact that I've never had any meaningful dating experience at nearly 30 years of age is unbelievably frustrating,

I don't know if I'm expressing myself properly here. If I was to date someone, I would take pride in never being supplicating, never being weak or needy or clingy (those are traits that I'm vehemently against) but I can't say that I'm completely happy despite the fact that I've never had any meaningful dating experience. I will tell you this though - there is not a person in this world outside of maybe a few asexuals who would be completely happy never having any dating life at the age of nearly 30.

 

[RichardTheFrog]

Because the women are smart enough to work from the neck up. Couldn't resist.

I disagree.

Don't delude yourself.

So when a hurricane tore through central Florida last year and males were putting it back together... You think girls could have done just as good of a job?

Putting all the power lines back up and making them operational. Clearing all the debris, etc.

Men do nearly EVERYTHING better than females do.

You are simply delusional about this.

 

[ohrein]

Your first point, right there Dave. You don't consider your causal flings as having any worth. You mentioned many times that you don't want something causal and just want to meet your ideal woman. You have listed so many things wrong about the women that do approach you.

Dave, this is literally no different than a woman holding out for Prince Charming and passing up on opportunities to date other people while waiting.

Because you are, in fact, waiting. If you're not trying to hook up with other girls even if they aren't your ideal you are waiting.

Causally date. Do it Dave. Who cares if they aren't the Armanian/ Latina/black don't crack mix you want to marry. Until you meet that ideal girl, have sex with other girls!!

Those experiences, while not your ideal, are not worthless because dating and having sex with women, ideal or not, will boost your confidence, relax you, and ease your anxiety around approaching the kinds of women you really want.

Every guy here has an ideal girl they want, but Dave they're not passing up on dating other girls who are not the ideal, they're just not settling for them.

I'm not saying you have to go and hook up with a land whale but if there is anything at all appealing about the women who are showing interest GO FOR IT.

The other problem is that there is no perfect person. There is no ONE. Everybody has flaws and every relationship will hit rough seas. You will never find a perfect match.