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EyeBRollin

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I'm sorry but yes you are. At the very least, if a guy has gone out of his way to invite you out, plan a date, pay for your dinner and drinks, and behave like a gentleman, you are OBLIGATED to give him the courtesy of telling him you aren't interested, at the very least, and if you aren't interested, you should pay for your half of the meal when the server brings the check. If, during the course of the date, you decide you aren't interested in him and let him pay for your meal anyway, you are selfish and entitled.
Nope, that's not how this works.

Women don't owe you ****. He made the dumb choice to take a stranger on a dinner fist date. Expecting women to like you because of a dinner is beta ****. It's a bribe aka transactional relationship. If you want to pay for sex, get a hooker. It's cheaper in the long run.

Women are emotional creatures. If you don't stimulate their feelings, they won't give a damn if you get run over or struck by lightning. Dinner dates are for chumps, mate.

First dates should always be a drink.
 

R.U.G.

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Nope, that's not how this works.

Women don't owe you ****. He made the dumb choice to take a stranger on a dinner fist date. Expecting women to like you because of a dinner is beta ****. It's a bribe aka transactional relationship. If you want to pay for sex, get a hooker. It's cheaper in the long run.

Women are emotional creatures. If you don't stimulate their feelings, they won't give a damn if you get run over or struck by lightning. Dinner dates are for chumps, mate.

First dates should always be a drink.
True. He should just had taken the woman for a drink and maybe some tapas. That's what I do. 25 - 30 bucks with tax max, and that's in NYC. That's good enough for two drinks and finger food.
 

EyeBRollin

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True. He should just had taken the woman for a drink and maybe some tapas. That's what I do. 25 - 30 bucks with tax max, and that's in NYC. That's good enough for two drinks and finger food.
Even that is generous. You really only need 45 minutes to qualify if the chick is worthy enough for a real date. One drink a piece. If she's worth seeing again, you can spring an extra round. You should be getting out of there within an hour anyway, unless you're really just in it for a one night stand. (In that scenario, you should start escalation and kiss attempts within the first 30 minutes)
 

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Even that is generous. You really only need 45 minutes to qualify if the chick is worthy enough for a real date. One drink a piece. If she's worth seeing again, you can spring an extra round. You should be getting out of there within an hour anyway, unless you're really just in it for a one night stand. (In that scenario, you should start escalation and kiss attempts within the first 30 minutes)
Exactly. One drink each and something to nibble on. Not two per person. My first meets last about 1.5 hours or so, then I ask for the check. Just giving them a taste, as you want them wanting more. Then send them over with a nice deep kiss for a minute or so really gets their juices flowing... Call them in a week or so and setup another date. Most, at least in NY, will not fvck until the 3rd or 4th date. They do not want to appear slutty. I've actually heard this after we fvck.

I disagree with the kissing in the middle. Many are a bit self-conscious about too much PDA/kissing in the middle of a bar or pub with a stranger. But, to each his own.
 

At this point you probably have a woman (or multiple women) chasing you around, calling you all the time, wanting to be with you. So let's talk about how to KEEP a woman interested in you once you have her. This is BIG! There is nothing worse than getting dumped by a woman that you really, really like.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

EyeBRollin

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I disagree with the kissing in the middle. Many are a bit self-conscious about too much PDA/kissing in the middle of a bar or pub with a stranger. But, to each his own.
Depends on your objective.

If you're trying to get her in bed that specific night, you have to escalate. If you are playing the long game, you don't have to kiss her at all. She'll be primed by the 3rd to 4th date.

Does "beta behavior" cease to be "beta" merely because the total expenditure associated therewith is below a specific dollar amount? Paying for someone else's drink and tapa is the same as paying for someone's dinner; any difference is one of degree, not of kind.
No, beta is meeting a chick online and taking her out to dinner the first time you meet her.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Even that is generous. You really only need 45 minutes to qualify if the chick is worthy enough for a real date. One drink a piece. If she's worth seeing again, you can spring an extra round. You should be getting out of there within an hour anyway, unless you're really just in it for a one night stand. (In that scenario, you should start escalation and kiss attempts within the first 30 minutes)
And funding her drink and tapa the first time one meets her is the very same act, merely with a smaller total expenditure.

So again: is the same behavior somehow not "beta" simply because the total expenditure is under a specific dollar amount?
It's "beta" if you think she owes you something. And it's "beta" if you allow a low interest babe use you for dinners .
 

R.U.G.

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Does "beta behavior" cease to be "beta" merely because the total expenditure associated therewith is below a specific dollar amount? Paying for someone else's drink and tapa is the same as paying for someone's dinner; any difference is one of degree, not of kind.
Beta is more of a mindset then a behavior. When you are taking a woman out, are you doing it for her approval or is something in it for you? At least for me, I am judging her to see if I want to have sex with her and if there is chemistry. If you are trying to impress her with dinner in the hopes she will like you, then that is beta. You should always look at a situation with women (well and in life), what is in it for me (you). If you are just taking her out, talking, texting and no sex, well, that's again beta. She will not look at you as someone she wants to have sex with, but you'd be a great emotional tampon and gay bff to talk about guys she does want to have sex with. Don't be that guy. Phones are for setting dates and hooking up, not listening to her life story.
 

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And funding her drink and tapa the first time one meets her is the very same act, merely with a smaller total expenditure.

So again: is the same behavior somehow not "beta" simply because the total expenditure is under a specific dollar amount?
A drink (each) and a tapa (shared) shouldn't cost more than 30 bucks. As Tom Leykis would say, that is fine as you are priming the pump. Dinner is easily 50 bucks +. She will look down on you for that. As she will think you are trying to impress her with buying dinner for her and expecting her pvssy in return. Just drinks and a tapa to see if there is any chemistry and it also shows you are not trying that hard. Basically, you are letting the chips fall where they may. This is the right move.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Beta is more of a mindset then a behavior. When you are taking a woman out, are you doing it for her approval or is something in it for you? At least for me, I am judging her to see if I want to have sex with her and if there is chemistry. If you are trying to impress her with dinner in the hopes she will like you, then that is beta. You should always look at a situation with women (well and in life), what is in it for me (you). If you are just taking her out, talking, texting and no sex, well, that's again beta. She will not look at you as someone she wants to have sex with, but you'd be a great emotional tampon and gay bff to talk about guys she does want to have sex with. Don't be that guy. Phones are for setting dates and hooking up, not listening to her life story.
Sometimes when we're less aware of how the world works we innocently take a female we think is attractive for her company. Guarantee of sex is not even a thought . Not realizing that women use men for free dinners, men they don't even really like .

They'll have you take em for dinner and a activity, drop her at home and call Chad to lay the pipe .
 

R.U.G.

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Exactly, you box yourself in as her "food guy".
The only food you should be aiming to give her is a protein shake all over her t!ts, face, bubble butt or down her throat. That is the main goal. If you are looking for a friend, join Meetup.

Here's what I do. First, get the woman's digits. Call, not text. Speak for 20 minutes or so. Setup a date. If she says she has to get back to me, no problem, I will not reach out again. I am awaiting her majesties response. If she takes longer than 2 weeks, I pass. Assuming she says yea and she gives me a date, and I am free, I agree. Hang up text her the place and address. Meet her, if I like the flow and chemistry, I deep kiss/french kiss her at the end at her car. If she's willingly putting her tongue in my mouth, then there is mutual interest. I make a second date an event date somewhere near her place and off of groupon (archery, mini-golf, something), then get a bite to eat. After that, on the way back to her place (again I pick her up), I say, damn shame the night has to end.. Up for watching a movie or something? She may invite me up or not. Depends. Wait a few days, if this is a Friday or Saturday, I'd call again on a Tuesday or Wednesday and setup a cooking date at my place. Usually, sex happens then.

That's what I follow. Total investment for 2 dates is around 60 - 70 bucks. Cooking and wine at my place, 20 bucks for some wild salmon and rice. I always take fresh condoms with me when I am on a date as well. Hey, you never know. Plus, you cannot keep condoms in the car or your pocket due to extreme hot or cold temps. If they break, you're royally fvcked. Most of the women I date are Italian, Puerto Rican or Jewish. Though, the last of those three are royal pains in the ass. I'd skip them if I were you. Again, I am attracted to big t!ts, a nice ass and for some reason, most of them can suck an amazing d!ck.
 
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Jareamee

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ALWAYS

Why are you paying for a women's meal and drinks on the first date? What kind of president does that set, she could be a post op tranny for all you know. I hope nobody on this site is paying 100% on first or even second dates.
You wouldn’t pay for a woman’s ONE drink on the first date... If it was going really well and there was a connection with lots of flirting and touching?

I’m positive paying for a womans *single* drink would do more good than harm. I have tons of women friends and they HATE when a guy doesn’t grab the bill for a single drink. Huge turn off. I could agree.
 

R.U.G.

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You wouldn’t pay for a woman’s ONE drink on the first date... If it was going really well and there was a connection with lots of flirting and touching?

I’m positive paying for a womans *single* drink would do more good than harm. I have tons of women friends and they HATE when a guy doesn’t grab the bill for a single drink. Huge turn off. I could agree.
I've heard the same. Even Corey Wayne says you should pay IF you invited her out for a drink. If she invited you, then it's a different story. Or, if you do not want to see her again.
 

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ALWAYS

Why are you paying for a women's meal and drinks on the first date? What kind of president does that set, she could be a post op tranny for all you know. I hope nobody on this site is paying 100% on first or even second dates.
That would not fly in NYC. Maybe it's different across the pond, but a woman in NYC would not put up with a stingy date. They want to date up, not down. But if it works for you, more power to you..
 

Murk

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I said I don't pay 100% of the date, not talking about not spending a penny. On dates I spend more than the chick regardless because I am quite frivolous with my money. But I will not be "oh babe I got this"'ing anything.

Fvck Corey Wayne, he has great advice but I'm sorry, I'm not paying for the date if I invite the women, I am not begging or pleading for her time. I ask them out, entertain them, that's payment enough. Make her invest too.

He gives solid advice but that is one thing I don't get - possibly a generational thing
 

R.U.G.

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I said I don't pay 100% of the date, not talking about not spending a penny. On dates I spend more than the chick regardless because I am quite frivolous with my money. But I will not be "oh babe I got this"'ing anything.

Fvck Corey Wayne, he has great advice but I'm sorry, I'm not paying for the date if I invite the women, I am not begging or pleading for her time. I ask them out, entertain them, that's payment enough. Make her invest too.

He gives solid advice but that is one thing I don't get - possibly a generational thing
Perhaps, but maybe that works in London. It does NOT work in New York City with attractive women. I recall one woman I was briefly seeing. She was holding back the puss, so we were already on rocky ground, so I started to move away and entertain other women. Now, she was an HB8, but thought she was all that an a bag of chips. She wasn't. She invited me out and said she'd cover the tab, as she wanted drinks and something to eat, I didn't. It was my last attempt at puss for her or I was nexting her. When the bill came, I said you got this.. Right? She flipped. Nonetheless, she picked up the bill and when we got back to my place, she called a few friends and left. I hadn't heard from her til Monday, but I ignored her calls. She's obviously was looking for a beta provider. Since I never spent more than 20, first date drinks at TGIF, nothing really lost.

Point being, it's so ingrained in American women, that it is expected as the norm, even when they invite you out. It's a fvcked up situation. That's is why I alternate. 80 bucks is about what the puss is worth, not much more. So I invest that much and I have a good shot at sex within two or three dates. After that, we switch up if we're going to continue seeing each other. If not, continue on with my purpose and find another plate to fvck.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Perhaps, but maybe that works in London. It does NOT work in New York City with attractive women. I recall one woman I was briefly seeing. She was holding back the puss, so we were already on rocky ground, so I started to move away and entertain other women. Now, she was an HB8, but thought she was all that an a bag of chips. She wasn't. She invited me out and said she'd cover the tab, as she wanted drinks and something to eat, I didn't. It was my last attempt at puss for her or I was nexting her. When the bill came, I said you got this.. Right? She flipped. Nonetheless, she picked up the bill and when we got back to my place, she called a few friends and left. I hadn't heard from her til Monday, but I ignored her calls. She's obviously was looking for a beta provider. Since I never spent more than 20, first date drinks at TGIF, nothing really lost.

Point being, it's so ingrained in American women, that it is expected as the norm, even when they invite you out. It's a fvcked up situation. That's is why I alternate. 80 bucks is about what the puss is worth, not much more. So I invest that much and I have a good shot at sex within two or three dates. After that, we switch up if we're going to continue seeing each other. If not, continue on with my purpose and find another plate to fvck.
When we look at this depressing angle paying doesn't seem so lowly.
 

guru1000

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Men lead and court; women defer. This is the natural order of things. If she doesn't defer, she loses you. You nonetheless court.

To those men who want an egalitarian relation where sometimes you pay, and sometimes she pays--and all gender roles are split down the middle? Well then, sometimes she can be the bltch, and sometimes you can be. Tell her to bring her strap-on for you.
 

Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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