Who here wants to get married and why?

[exhausted]

Now we might be getting somewhere. The question "WTF do we do?" is the proper question to ask. It should be obvious that marriage is alive and well and just fine thank you based on the statistics that can be observed and quoted in addition to our own anecdotal observations from our own lives, and it should also be obvious that marriage has risks and one is wise to manage and mitigate those risks to the degree possible.

What I see when I see a man or a woman asking "WTF do we do?" is frustration. I see disappointment and disillusionment. And that comes as no surprise because it is that very disappointment and disillusionment that brings guys here. But understand something about SS. There is a disproportionate amount of disappointed men here compared to a more general population sample and so the collective filters that have a tendency to be applied can (not in this thread granted - this thread has remained rational and objective for the most part) be categorized as AWALT, and the AWALT rationale doesn't say terribly uplifting or positive things as a rule here. So if men simply digest/accept the general AWALT attitudes that color the forum, one can inadvertently adopt a skewed view out there compared to the public domain as a whole.

I do not disagree with red pill thinking. Don't misunderstand. I'm no pollyanna in my thinking. But the red pill view to the point of AWALT darkness is a lie, just as Disney think is a lie as I stated earlier in the thread. You must adopt a balanced view.

For the most part the joyously married men ARE NOT HERE. Therefore collectively you are not going to hear that perspective, see the value in that or appreciate its worth.

So step one is to understand the bias inherent in one's current perspective. Think. Question it. Examine it closely.

If one has the fortitude to seriously examine one's current perspective, then one must entertain the idea that one's perspective could be flawed to some degree. This gets into attitudes and beliefs once again. We are all captives of our own reality that we create in our own minds. But is our reality empirically accurate? It is to varying degrees. Self awareness comes as one continually examines one's perspective, objectively lines it up with empirical observation, and compares the two. Depending on how far out of line one's belief system is in comparison to reality, that is the degree of discomfort examination of one's perspective causes in one's mind.

Furthermore if you look at the question "WTF do we do?" There is both an attitude and an assumption embedded in the question. The attitude is one of frustration/disappointment/wits end. The assumption is that there are no good options.

If you adjust your attitude and release the frustration/disappointment (which is past experience being allowed to bias future interaction) and open your mind without judgement of the next female you interact with then you can also turn lose of the assumption and refrain from coloring a neutral field (the interaction you have with a new female in the future) with stains from your past (baggage).

In so doing you open your mind (which may refuse kicking and screaming) and you allow yourself to objectively observe and you evaluate someone's behavior and you also allow yourself the opportunity to trust the female in question. Now before everyone freaks out and loses their minds about trusting a female, let's understand something. Society is based on trust. You wouldn't drive through an intersection with a green light unless you trust the drivers who are in a position to kill you to stop at the corresponding red light. You wouldn't travel by commercial airline unless you trust that pilot will deliver you safely to your destination, and so on throughout your day.

If you do not extend trust to a woman at the outset (and observe her behavior to verify whether or not she deserves your continued trust) then you instead set yourself up for failure because you are placing a negative expectation frame on the interaction from the outset. That is the definition of baggage. Your own baggage will mess up interactions with women over and over again unless you are actively aware of it and actively managing it.

You overcome your baggage through adjustment of your attitudes and beliefs and you allow yourself to operate from a place of trust in your fellow human beings.

I did this.. this is the crux of it.

Was married a year, she decided she didnt want to be a step mom, was too selfish even tho we dated for 3 years and she pushed marriage.

So i went single for 7 years.. SEVEN. Dated. Thats it.

Then opened my heart and mind, carried a wonderfully positive aura..

Dated this girl for 3 years, after 18 months comes out with npd and bipolar.

Nope i stick it out while declining many options of women over the years..
try to be loyal and help her grow as we are all damaged in some way.

NOPE. Fuchhed over.. she gets worse

They all get worse after their facade falls.

Today's woman wants to run the show.
Sure they will crash the ship but they dont care they have to control everything.. even the money when they are bad with money.
Even the religion when they aren't religious

They wont cook but we should take them out to eat 4x week...

 

[guru1000]

Still waiting for @guru1000 to tell me why marriage is a "SMART" decision for a man.

He can't come up with JACK SH*T. I haven't laughed this hard in a while lol.

I did over 20 pages, you just cannot read or perhaps comprehend.

If you are too lazy to take the time to read my posts, that's on you. Expend some effort, read, comprehend, and learn something.

Attitude can't change reality. Attitude CAN and DOES change perception.

Attitude can change reality too as the energy we put out is the energy we get back.

Put out anger, anger will be returned to you.
Put out kindness, kindness will be returned to you.
Put out bitterness, bitterness will be returned to you.

Attitude is important, gentlemen. And I think we all know at least one individual in this thread with a bad attitude who creates his own self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Tenacity]

Marriage is cooperation, it's not a free ticket to sit on the couch and chill.

But my friend.....right now, I get to sit on the couch and chill lol. I work hard, then come home and just get to lay around. Even if I want to stop working out and get FAT, it's my choice. Sounds like marriage (at least for the man from your perspective) is MORE WORK, more stress, and makes life more difficult?

Well, let's look at this sub-topic:

Would you rather come home to a woman after pulling a 12-hour workday who welcomes you with open arms or snarls at you/disgusted at your presence;

Would you rather spend time with a woman who is genuinely interested in what you have to say or dismisses everything as uninteresting/irrelevant;

Would you rather spend time with a woman who communicates well with you or argues with you over trivial matters everyday.

All of this happens when the chick isn't "mad" at you for (insert whatever random reason here or no reason at all as some women just wake up mad somedays) or she isn't on her period lol.

Now we might be getting somewhere. The question "WTF do we do?" is the proper question to ask. It should be obvious that marriage is alive and well and just fine thank you based on the statistics that can be observed and quoted in addition to our own anecdotal observations from our own lives, and it should also be obvious that marriage has risks and one is wise to manage and mitigate those risks to the degree possible.

What I see when I see a man or a woman asking "WTF do we do?" is frustration. I see disappointment and disillusionment. And that comes as no surprise because it is that very disappointment and disillusionment that brings guys here. But understand something about SS. There is a disproportionate amount of disappointed men here compared to a more general population sample and so the collective filters that have a tendency to be applied can (not in this thread granted - this thread has remained rational and objective for the most part) be categorized as AWALT, and the AWALT rationale doesn't say terribly uplifting or positive things as a rule here. So if men simply digest/accept the general AWALT attitudes that color the forum, one can inadvertently adopt a skewed view out there compared to the public domain as a whole.

I do not disagree with red pill thinking. Don't misunderstand. I'm no pollyanna in my thinking. But the red pill view to the point of AWALT darkness is a lie, just as Disney think is a lie as I stated earlier in the thread. You must adopt a balanced view.

For the most part the joyously married men ARE NOT HERE. Therefore collectively you are not going to hear that perspective, see the value in that or appreciate its worth.

So step one is to understand the bias inherent in one's current perspective. Think. Question it. Examine it closely.

If one has the fortitude to seriously examine one's current perspective, then one must entertain the idea that one's perspective could be flawed to some degree. This gets into attitudes and beliefs once again. We are all captives of our own reality that we create in our own minds. But is our reality empirically accurate? It is to varying degrees. Self awareness comes as one continually examines one's perspective, objectively lines it up with empirical observation, and compares the two. Depending on how far out of line one's belief system is in comparison to reality, that is the degree of discomfort examination of one's perspective causes in one's mind.

Furthermore if you look at the question "WTF do we do?" There is both an attitude and an assumption embedded in the question. The attitude is one of frustration/disappointment/wits end. The assumption is that there are no good options.

If you adjust your attitude and release the frustration/disappointment (which is past experience being allowed to bias future interaction) and open your mind without judgement of the next female you interact with then you can also turn lose of the assumption and refrain from coloring a neutral field (the interaction you have with a new female in the future) with stains from your past (baggage).

In so doing you open your mind (which may refuse kicking and screaming) and you allow yourself to objectively observe and you evaluate someone's behavior and you also allow yourself the opportunity to trust the female in question. Now before everyone freaks out and loses their minds about trusting a female, let's understand something. Society is based on trust. You wouldn't drive through an intersection with a green light unless you trust the drivers who are in a position to kill you to stop at the corresponding red light. You wouldn't travel by commercial airline unless you trust that pilot will deliver you safely to your destination, and so on throughout your day.

If you do not extend trust to a woman at the outset (and observe her behavior to verify whether or not she deserves your continued trust) then you instead set yourself up for failure because you are placing a negative expectation frame on the interaction from the outset. That is the definition of baggage. Your own baggage will mess up interactions with women over and over again unless you are actively aware of it and actively managing it.

You overcome your baggage through adjustment of your attitudes and beliefs and you allow yourself to operate from a place of trust in your fellow human beings.

Omg, you and Guru with your Word Salad responses, talking about stuff that's not even relevant or bringing in some magical/Joel Osteen/Prosperity Gospel/Law of Attraction stuff to somehow JUSTIFY the inefficient terms and conditions of a business contract?? What in the WORLD @BeExcellent does the smile on my face, the happiness in my attitude, etc., have to do with the terms and conditions of a business contract??

I know you are major in real estate, I assume you have tenants too, correct? If a tenant is 4 months behind on rent BE, do you CARE that they are an upbeat, positive, happy person? Do you care that they believe in the Lorddd? Do you care that their personality is one that you just LOVE being around? OR, are you concerned that they are 4 months behind on rent and you are at the point of where you need to kick their "happy a.ss" out of your property because they have violated the terms and conditions of their business contract?

 

[guru1000]

What in the WORLD @BeExcellent does the smile on my face, the happiness in my attitude, etc., have to do with the terms and conditions of a business contract??

A good attitude will help you revise the terms of a business contract. Do you think you a better shot to request a revision of contract with a "Hello azzhole, I want to revise this contract." or "Hey, how's your wife? How's your kids? Great. The reason I'm here ..."

A good attitude will permit a little leniency if you default on the contract. Do you think you would get evicted quicker with, "Hey azzhole, I stopped working; that's why I didn't pay you" or "Hey, nice to see you. You have a beautiful home. I just stopped by to tell you I had a temporary lost of employment but am working now and will def pay you ..."

A good attitude will allow you to be in the position to talk your way into a business contract that benefits you as sales is about meeting the needs of the prospect and attitude a/k/a delivery of the pitch.

Don't kid yourself. You have a bad attitude overall which translated to zero LTRs in six years.

 

[exhausted]

I did over 20 pages, you just cannot read or perhaps comprehend.

If you are too lazy to take the time to read my posts, that's on you. Expend some effort, read, comprehend, and learn something.

Attitude can change reality too as the energy we put out is the energy we get back.

Put out anger, anger will be returned to you.
Put out kindness, kindness will be returned to you.
Put out bitterness, bitterness will be returned to you.

Attitude is important, gentlemen. And I think we all know at least one individual in this thread with a bad attitude who creates his own self-fulfilling prophecy.

To an extent.
I kept putting out kindness, appreciation, love and acceptance.. nope didnt work. Some girls are so.damaged it does not matter what u do.

 

[BeExcellent]

Omg, you and Guru with your Word Salad responses, talking about stuff that's not even relevant or bringing in some magical/Joel Osteen/Prosperity Gospel/Law of Attraction stuff to somehow JUSTIFY the inefficient terms and conditions of a business contract?? What in the WORLD @BeExcellent does the smile on my face, the happiness in my attitude, etc., have to do with the terms and conditions of a business contract??

First of all @Tenacity I disagree with your view that marriage is "just" a business contract. So let's get clear on that. Happily married people likewise agree it is more than a business contract, especially if they seriously value religious beliefs of some variety that promotes the marriage COVENANT. Attitude has much to do with fulfilling that covenant, so its more than just business.

If a tenant is 4 months behind on rent BE, do you CARE that they are an upbeat, positive, happy person? Do you care that they believe in the Lorddd? Do you care that their personality is one that you just LOVE being around? OR, are you concerned that they are 4 months behind on rent and you are at the point of where you need to kick their "happy a.ss" out of your property because they have violated the terms and conditions of their business contract?

Correct. Actually I do not allow ANYONE to get 4 months behind on rent, that my friend is how you go broke. The rental agreement is strictly a business agreement.

You are comparing apples and organges and you are getting fruit salad

 

[Tenacity]

Attitude can change reality too as the energy we put out is the energy we get back.

So if I just PUT OUT some positive energy........that's going to stop the legal conditions of a business contract from begin enforced? For example, a chick hell bent on fvcking me over in Family Court (which the contract allows her to do) would be stopped by my positive energy? Not paying my mortgage for 8 months is going to stop the foreclosure because I have positive energy? Not paying my electricity bill for 3 months is going to stop them from cutting it off, because I have positive energy?

Lol, Guru....just admit you lost the argument man. I beat you, I won, admit it lol. I know it's hard, but come on.....let's recap:

- You started out talking about this "unicorn chick" from a traditional background that's like 25 - 32 and not married yet. I broke down how that would make no sense and how she's more than likely just some Jenna Bush chick who just got done partying and is now ready to play housewife.

- You broke down having prenups, corporations, and various other legal tools in place to "protect yourself", even after admitting there's no way to truly 100% protect yourself........but also admitting to the fact that MOST of these women you describe would NEVER sign a prenup in the first place.

- It was asked, what are the benefits of signing a marriage contract that a man gets, that's unavailable outside of it? The ONLY answer I have seen from you or anybody else, is if there's a financial or political or social gain that you can sort of "marry into" even as a guy, which would be a very RARE situation. Then, the argument was that it's good for kids, but you can raise kids without a marriage contract and you know that.

- The discussion then went on about this concept of "happiness", which honestly is how we get into the Law Of Attraction/The Secret/Joel Osteen/Prosperity Gospel stuff that @BeExcellent is preaching right now....which again, has nothing to do with the terms and conditions of a business contract. And you and BE know that, seeing as though you are BOTH business professionals.

You lost the debate Sir lol. All you can do now is go marry one of these women you describe and report back to us how it's going. That's all you can do now Sir.

 

[guru1000]

To an extent.
I kept putting out kindness, appreciation, love and acceptance.. nope didnt work. Some girls are so.damaged it does not matter what u do.

Great way to vet. And eject.

Can't blame the girl here, if she treated you badly and you stayed.

 

[guru1000]

So if I just PUT OUT some positive energy........that's going to stop the legal conditions of a business contract from begin enforced? For example, a chick hell bent on fvcking me over in Family Court (which the contract allows her to do) would be stopped by my positive energy? Not paying my mortgage for 8 months is going to stop the foreclosure because I have positive energy? Not paying my electricity bill for 3 months is going to stop them from cutting it off, because I have positive energy?

Lol, Guru....just admit you lost the argument man. I beat you, I won, admit it lol. I know it's hard, but come on.....let's recap:

- You started out talking about this "unicorn chick" from a traditional background that's like 25 - 32 and not married yet. I broke down how that would make no sense and how she's more than likely just some Jenna Bush chick who just got done partying and is now ready to play housewife.

- You broke down having prenups, corporations, and various other legal tools in place to "protect yourself", even after admitting there's no way to truly 100% protect yourself........but also admitting to the fact that MOST of these women you describe would NEVER sign a prenup in the first place.

- It was asked, what are the benefits of signing a marriage contract that a man gets, that's unavailable outside of it? The ONLY answer I have seen from you or anybody else, is if there's a financial or political or social gain that you can sort of "marry into" even as a guy, which would be a very RARE situation. Then, the argument was that it's good for kids, but you can raise kids without a marriage contract and you know that.

- The discussion then went on about this concept of "happiness", which honestly is how we get into the Law Of Attraction/The Secret/Joel Osteen/Prosperity Gospel stuff that @BeExcellent is preaching right now....which again, has nothing to do with the terms and conditions of a business contract. And you and BE know that, seeing as though you are BOTH business professionals.

You lost the debate Sir lol. All you can do now is go marry one of these women you describe and report back to us how it's going. That's all you can do now Sir.

Actually, the debate was won on Page 10, when SoSuave converted their anti-marriage stance.

I'm already on the next topic: Attitude. Keep up.

 

[Tenacity]

First of all @Tenacity I disagree with your view that marriage is "just" a business contract. So let's get clear on that. Happily married people likewise agree it is more than a business contract, especially if they seriously value religious beliefs of some variety that promotes the marriage COVENANT. Attitude has much to do with fulfilling that covenant, so its more than just business.

If this were the case........why do we have to sign a contract at all? Why does the government have to get involved at all? Similar to being baptized, why can't we just go to church and do the church related procedures only (which in this case would involve standing before a Pastor and God, then making our vows)....and be done with it? No signing of anything. No government involvement?

If it was structured like this (which marriage USED TO BE structured like this before Big Business/Government got into it to start making money off of it) then I would be all for it. It would be more in line with the traditional definition of marriage, which would also mean TWO DUDES wouldn't be allowed to get married as no Pastor, God, or Church would allow that.

 

[Tenacity]

Actually, the debate was won on Page 10, when SoSuave converted their anti-marriage stance.

I'm already on the next topic: Attitude. Keep up.

Who converted their anti-marriage stance? And you changed the topic because I completely destroyed your "unicorn/Jenna Bush" chick

 

[guru1000]

Who converted their anti-marriage stance? And you changed the topic because I completely destroyed your "unicorn/Jenna Bush" chick

Start from page 10: And tally the pro- and con-marriage votes. Greater than 70% pro-.

Just two years ago, the site was 90% against marriage--with many of the same posters.

It's ok. Tenacity, you have always lost debates to me. Nothing new under the sun here. I'm almost insulted that you felt you had a shot.

Any other positions you need help pitching, let me know.

 

[Tenacity]

Start from page 10: And tally the pro- and con-marriage votes. Greater than 70% pro-.

Just two years ago, the site was 90% against marriage--with many of the same posters.

It's ok. Tenacity, you have always lost debates to me. Nothing new under the sun here. I'm almost insulted that you felt you had a shot.

Ummm......besides @BeExcellent and the fake 17 year old (who is not really 17, I honestly think that's a grown woman), along with BeTheChange (who honestly agrees with everything you say because he's afraid of you lol)......WHO else in this debate is pro-marriage??

 

[guru1000]

Ummm......besides @BeExcellent and the fake 17 year old (who is not really 17, I honestly think that's a grown woman), along with BeTheChange (who honestly agrees with everything you say because he's afraid of you lol)......WHO else in this debate is pro-marriage??

Don't be lazy. Start at page 10, and tally every poster who said they were open to it. Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

[set]

LMAO @guru1000 and @BeExcellent the two divorcees swinging for the fences in a just "believe" pro-marriage must win debate stance.

NEWSFLASH: You two goofs are ALREADY DIVORCED. How did your "pro-marriage" beliefs work out for you? We all know.

 

[Tenacity]

Don't be lazy. Start at page 10, and tally every poster who said they were open to it. Go ahead. I'll wait.

I already scrolled lol. You do it......no way the majority of people that participated in this thread had a pro marriage stance. Also being "open to it" isn't PRO-MARRIAGE, that's like a "Maybe". Hell, Tenacity is "open to it", if the terms and conditions completely change. And I mean completely change! I'm talking about I don't want my financial situation tied in with no chick's bipolar a.ss decision to love me one day, hate me the next, and divorce me the next. No way in hell dude.

 

[guru1000]

Hell, Tenacity is "open to it", if the terms and conditions completely change. And I mean completely change! I'm talking about I don't want my financial situation tied in with no chick's bipolar a.ss decision to love me one day, hate me the next, and divorce me the next. No way in hell dude.

This can be mitigated with 99% certainty, more certainty than the chance that a girl you don't have a marriage with can sue you for your assets.

Welcome aboard champ.

 

[Tenacity]

This can be mitigated with 99% certainty, more certainty than the chance that a girl you don't have a marriage with can sue you for your assets.

Welcome aboard champ.

Lol, no it can't. I'm about to email this thread to some Family Law Attorneys so they can participate in this. Let's get it straight from the horse's mouth.

Plus I already told you, MOST CHICKS are not signing anything with a prenup in it dude, so your legal schemes are irrelevant at that point lol.

 

[BeExcellent]

If this were the case........why do we have to sign a contract at all? Why does the government have to get involved at all? Similar to being baptized, why can't we just go to church and do the church related procedures only (which in this case would involve standing before a Pastor and God, then making our vows)....and be done with it? No signing of anything. No government involvement?

If it was structured like this (which marriage USED TO BE structured like this before Big Business/Government got into it to start making money off of it) then I would be all for it. It would be more in line with the traditional definition of marriage, which would also mean TWO DUDES wouldn't be allowed to get married as no Pastor, God, or Church would allow that.

You don't have to sign a contract. You can get married without a marriage license but your marriage won't be officially recognized so if you are in a wreck and a coma your wife won't be able to get information from the doctors, if you die your wife wouldn't benefit from inheritance laws & tax advantages, there are plenty of places where the government has extended their tentacles into our personal lives that started out one way for one purpose and then got bastardized into something else because some congress person thought it was a good idea. I'm in healthcare. Don't get me started on all THAT.

My stance remains that a marriage covenant (even though it includes a business contract) is not the same thing as a business contract. Frankly I don't think marriage should include a business contract but I'm sure it does because some ass hole took rank advantage of some woman at some point and there was some lawsuit along the way and now we've slid well down that whole slope. That and they figured out they could extract money under the guise of marriage and/or the public health. That's what government does, extracts money from people for "stuff."

 

[guru1000]

Lol, no it can't. I'm about to email this thread to some Family Law Attorneys so they can participate in this. Let's get it straight from the horse's mouth.

CC me and I'll respond. Ask the following:

1) Percentage of prenups they managed to set aside;
2) Percentage of corps, LLCs they set aside;
3) Percentage of trusts they set aside;
4) Percentage of domestic LLCs owned by trusts they set aside;
5) How could a spouse relinquish assets he no longer owns in an offshore trust where trustee changes (to an offshore bank not at the jurisdictional mercy of the U.S) under a "duress" clause.

99% is conservative. Believe me. I'm just a fair man.

Plus I already told you, MOST CHICKS are not signing anything with a prenup in it dude, so your legal schemes are irrelevant at that point lol.

Sure they will, but then again I never dated a Tyquesha. Either way, moot point, no prenup, no marriage.