Who here wants to get married and why?

[ChristopherColumbus]

I could very well get hit by a f*cking bus crossing the street
.. But I still got places to be and sh*t to do.
So I look both ways and check for signs before I cross.

Yes, don't think of marriage as a contract. That is doomed.

Think of it as a sacrament.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The sh!tty thing about screening is that you can't screen out that she'll fall out of love one day down the road and file for divorce after while going through hardships (losing a job, losing parent(s), siblings, children, etc. to death, health issues like cancer, disease, etc..

You see women hear the common advice: go see a couple's therapist, communicate (talk things out with a "heart to heart"), talk to a priest/pastor, older mentor to sort out issues.

The problem is the ego's desire for certainty. It dooms every relationship from the start.... because doubt, the opposite of faith, gnaws away at the center. It is a system of checks and balances, of the fulfilment of mutual needs, of an economic partnership.

A true marriage, with any chance of success, would involve the obliteration of ego [love]. This creates an open faith-ful space where two can grow and intertwine in the energy of eros. It is a teleology built on faith, which people are hardly capable of today due to a cultural holocaust and mis-education.

Of course there is a pragmatic and existential argument for faith here: in so far as you desire marriage.....

 

[guru1000]

Umm.. no.

How about YOU answer my question. Its a very simple question.

How about you answer a DIRECT question DIRECTLY and stop acting like a woman lol.

Learn to read first. And challenge actual assertions made.

But didn't we already establish that there's no way to 100% protect your assets? And Sosuave shouldn't be pro or against marriage, the decision to marry is an individual based situation. What Sosuave should be, is what this thread has become, which is a place where QUALITY INFORMATION is disclosed outlining the truth of a subject matter, and allow the individual guy to make his own decision on what he wants to do.

These are the types of discussions I like to have with you guys. No bickering, no flaming, etc. Just guys (or girls) detailing their perspective viewpoints on a topic to put all of the information out there, allowing the audience members to decide what their individual life paths are.

The audience could not previously decide what's best for THEM, as marriage (under all circumstances) was entirely vilified in this forum. That changes now. Marriage under the right circumstance, right woman, and with the right asset-protection measures will be accepted, and those DJs who do decide to marry with full knowledge of the pros/cons will not be shamed by MGTOW dogma.

It's one thing to inform a man about a legal system he does not understand and another to completely segregate him from institutions that some women may "need" which could enhance his life.

Whoa, now wait a minute. Wait a minute here. You have been one of the main guys on this website talking about how men should NOT see women as any foundation, framework, or structure for their "happiness" in life. It's been preached multiple times that a guy should chase his passions in life and obtain his "happiness/joy/peace" from that area and just bring women in as a supplement to a life he already is content with.

This does not contradict my position. Both this and my position can operate together.

Now you are saying that continuing to spin plates is getting tiring and you are looking for something more? Something deeper? Isn't that the EXACT same stuff you were laughing at me about a couple of months ago when I was looking for the same thing?

No you were needy incited by abandonment issues as a a child. Very different dynamic to desire ("want") something as opposed to "need" something to complete you.

By the way, I came to the realization there is no "deeper", there is no soul-mate, women just are what the hell they are. What you see......is what you get. I stopped searching for something "deeper" and just learned to enjoy the chick for being sexy, providing good companionship, good sex, and having someone to go hang out with at various spots. Occasionally you might get a chick that does some "nice things for you", but there's nothing deep or spiritual with any of these relationships.

And so shall they treat you. And hence why the tide and thinking will change in this forum.

Too much work to create a "plan" that still has a high potential to fail......as understand it all depends upon how the marriage played out during the active run time. For example, if your chick got pregnant and became a housewife, alimony could be brought into the table and prenups (along with other structures) could become useless due to her arguing that her marketplace skills have diminished.

That's not a legal argument that could have a prenup set aside, as long as the prenup is "fair" as defined by the jurisdictional case law governing it. I outlined how a prenup could be set aside in Post 30.

Dude it's just a complete and utter headache. And with a job market and economy being so F'ed up right now for those 20 - 35 (in terms of finding high paying jobs), why would any guy want to RISK the money he has over something that isn't even required? Huh? For what purpose?

Like @Urbanyst, you are now purporting arguments not made by me. Again, and the last time I will reiterate, if the girl has no "need" to marry meaning she was never indoctrinated and imbued with traditional family values to center her entire life around raising a family and thus she would be open to other types of non-marital relations, then by all means, the DJ should LTR her without a marriage contract.

The focal point of who we are discussing--again and for the last time--is a certain subset of women who will not entertain an LTR without marriage, and that a DJ does not necessarily need to disqualify her based on her "need" to marry, but potentially consider her an "option" to marry under the right circumstance and with correct asset-protection measures.

You can have "love", sex, companionship, a "decent woman", and all of the touchy feely "feel goodery" stuff with a woman without EVER signing a marriage contract. And if the woman you are with wants to leave you because you won't sign said contract, let her leave, why? Because literally within 3 - 10 days you would have REPLACED HER with another woman that is providing the same level of benefits.

According to you, how many "Unicorns" (defined as a woman who has no divorce, no kids, no divorces in her immediate family, strong traditional family values, good financial habits, lives only to be a good wife and mother, lives to support her husband in every manner) have you found among 200 women in last six years? Zero. And if you found a Unicorn one day, you could replace her within 3-10 days with a woman who can provide the same level of total LTR benefits?

You make no sense.

 

[Urbanyst]

Learn to read first. And challenge actual assertions made.

LOL.

More indirect horse sh*t.

I know how to read very well. Here is the question AGAIN in case you missed it the first 10 times: WHY is the marriage CONTRACT necessary when you can have the relationship without it?

The question I just asked you consisted of 13 words. Your answer does not need to be a textbook with chapters. Its very SIMPLE and easy question to answer. Now stop d*cking around please...

 

[Urbanyst]

Because they will demand it.

Another way of saying "because she says so". And THAT my friend.. makes a man pathetic.

LOL.

A woman who is "right for you" does not need a CONTRACT to stay with you.

 

[BeTheChange]

Another way of saying "because she says so". And THAT my friend.. makes a man pathetic.

LOL.

A woman who is "right for you" does not need a CONTRACT to stay with you.

Let's flip it.

A man who is right for you does not need YOU TO STAY SLIM, ELEGANT AND WELL MANNERED to stay with you.

A man who is right for you does not need YOU TO BE AT HOME AND RAISE HIS KIDS to stay with you.

A man who is right for you does not need YOU TO BE HIGHLY EDUCATED to stay with you

Etc etc.

She has her wants and needs and I have mine.

 

[guru1000]

A woman who is "right for you" does not need a CONTRACT to stay with you.

Now you understand the argument.

In certain cultures, especially predominant in Queens and Brooklyn, NYC, there are traditional households borne of immigrant families where marriage for their children (your prospects) is a must. Think of it as how Jewish must marry Jewish, as that is the biblical construct to which they subscribe. Here, similarly, is the social construct that these subset of women are indoctrinated to live and die by, hence the "need."

Sure you can walk away from this kind of girl. Ironically, though, these are exactly the type of women who make incredible wives. Even more ironically, within these cultures, divorce rates are at less than 10%.

 

[Urbanyst]

Let's flip it.

A man who is right for you does not need YOU TO STAY SLIM, ELEGANT AND WELL MANNERED to stay with you.

A man who is right for you does not need YOU TO BE AT HOME AND RAISE HIS KIDS to stay with you.

A man who is right for you does not need YOU TO BE HIGHLY EDUCATED to stay with you

Etc etc.

She has her wants and needs and I have mine.

Well played.

But wanting a woman to stay SLIM and WELL MANNERED benefits both HER and me.

Making me sign a CONTRACT only benefits her.

Understand the difference?

 

[That_dude]

Now you understand the argument.

In certain cultures, especially predominant in Queens and Brooklyn, NYC, there are traditional households borne of immigrant families where marriage for their children (your prospects) is a must. Think of it as how Jewish must marry Jewish, as that is the biblical construct to which they subscribe. Here, similarly, is the social construct that these subset of women are indoctrinated to live and die by, hence the "need."

Sure you can walk away from this kind of girl. Ironically, though, these are exactly the type of women who make incredible wives. Even more ironically, within these cultures, divorce rates are at less than 10%.

Some of those cultures are more traditional and old fashion. More like women from our parents and grandparents generations. Probably the reason they have better success rates. This is why I don't mind dating women from other cultures.

This is America culture in 2017:

http://www.apa.org/topics/divorce/

Marriage and divorce are both common experiences. In Western cultures, more than 90 percent of people marry by age 50. Healthy marriages are good for couples’ mental and physical health. They are also good for children; growing up in a happy home protects children from mental, physical, educational and social problems. However, about 40 to 50 percent of married couples in the United States divorce. The divorce rate for subsequent marriages is even higher.

 

[Urbanyst]

Sure you can walk away from this kind of girl. Ironically, though, these are exactly the type of women who make incredible wives. Even more ironically, within these cultures, divorce rates are at less than 10%.

This is where variable CHANGE comes into play. You are making a lot of assumptions.

Culture is great.. but every individual woman has her own functioning brain and she can decide to deviate from the values she was raised with anytime for any reason. Especially if you live in the U.S. where she is constantly getting slammed with culture messages that tell her she is a slave and a moron for choosing to be a "good wife".

Power corrupts and once you sign that CONTRACT you give her POWER. That is the main reason she wants you to sign that contract. Not because she "loves you so much" but because it gives her POWER while taking away power from you lol.

 

[amaterasu]

This is all about accepting the will of God.

God will find a way that you're gonna be married with your partner someday (woman).

So I choose to accept His will and stay married.

 

[BeTheChange]

Well played.

But wanting a woman to stay SLIM and WELL MANNERED benefits both HER and me.

Making me sign a CONTRACT only benefits her.

Understand the difference?

Depends on the woman.

 

[PlateHerMan]

I have dated and banged more hot women than all of the active members on this site combined

The ONLY thing you've "banged out" in your over 10 years and counting on these forums is nothing more than pure fantasy B.S. and word salad scroll bombs of gibberish. You sound like a BETA PHAGGOT.

 

[guru1000]

This is where variable CHANGE comes into play. You are making a lot of assumptions.

Culture is great.. but every individual woman has her own functioning brain and she can decide to deviate from the values she was raised with anytime for any reason. Especially if you live in the U.S. where she is constantly getting slammed with culture messages that tell her she is a slave and a moron for choosing to be a "good wife".

Familial/Religious Indoctrination can be influenced, but not undone. The way a girl is conditioned at 25 yos is 90% likely to how she will remain; hence the extremely low divorce rates in these cultures, as opposed to the consensus.

Power corrupts and once you sign that CONTRACT you give her POWER. That is the main reason she wants you to sign that contract. Not because she "loves you so much" but because it gives her POWER while taking away power from you lol.

We already established true love rarely exists before marriage, as love is tending to her above you which belies the human inclination.

A marriage contract empowers her if you have greater resources.
A prenup empowers you.
Corporate structures empower you.
Your ability to work, expand, network, build your empire and lineage while she stays at home to tend to your lineage, empowers you.
A lasting marriage with high success rate (within these cultures) empowers you.

Walk away from such a subset of women empowers her, not you.

 

[Tenacity]

The audience could not previously decide what's best for THEM, as marriage (under all circumstances) was entirely vilified in this forum. That changes now. Marriage under the right circumstance, right woman, and with the right asset-protection measures will be accepted, and those DJs who do decide to marry with full knowledge of the pros/cons will not be shamed by MGTOW dogma.

Lol, okay. Good luck in your "endeavors".

No you were needy incited by abandonment issues as a a child. Very different dynamic to desire ("want") something as opposed to "need" something to complete you.

Dude no matter how you spin it, it's the same concept of seeking a woman for foundational "happiness", rather than relying on something else (your passion in life, God, etc.) for said "happiness".

Again, and the last time I will reiterate, if the girl has no "need" to marry meaning she was never indoctrinated and imbued with traditional family values to center her entire life around raising a family and thus she would be open to other types of non-marital relations, then by all means, the DJ should LTR her without a marriage contract.

The focal point of who we are discussing--again and for the last time--is a certain subset of women who will not entertain an LTR without marriage, and that a DJ does not necessarily need to disqualify her based on her "need" to marry, but potentially consider her an "option" to marry under the right circumstance and with correct asset-protection measures.

Okay so here are my direct questions to you. When you get a moment, please answer them directly:

- This woman that you just described, how old is she? Is she over 25? Is she over 30? Why isn't she already married if (according to you) her entire life framework is centered on traditional values of being married and serving within the constructs of a marriage infrastructure? Why would she be 25, 30, etc., on Match.com looking to "get married" and not already married?

- Would you NOT AGREE that the woman you described, if she exists still in this market, would already be married by the age of 21 (in the vast majority of cases)?

- Finally, why sign a marriage contract with this woman if you could obtain the same level of BENEFITS without signing a contract? Granted, maybe you can't do the arrangement with the same WOMAN, but the only benefits that a guy can obtain from women is sex, companionship, and some level of quality benefits such as her caring for the guy, cooking for the guy, paying for some dates, or buying him some gifts from time to time. These are BENEFITS you can obtain from a woman or women in general, without EVER signing a marriage contract.

According to you, how many "Unicorns" (defined as a woman who has no divorce, no kids, no divorces in her immediate family, strong traditional family values, good financial habits, lives only to be a good wife and mother, lives to support her husband in every manner) have you found among 200 women in last six years? Zero.

That's not true. I have dated many black women who were never married, had no kids, had somewhat decent finances, and whose parents are still married. The black women had OTHER issues that I was concerned about, from attitude issues, high maintenance issues, and other "stuff". Plus in no way would I label these women as Unicorns, there ARE NO Unicorns. Just because a woman comes from "traditional values" Guru, that does not mean she is some Unicorn or any "Special" compared to any other woman out here.

I personally think this new "campaign" you are on will fail......why? Because no matter what you say, facts are facts. The FACTS are that the Marriage Contract makes no logical or business sense, and there's nothing you can do legal wise (prenup, incorporations, transfers, etc.) to truly make sense of the Contract. The other FACT is that there are NO UNICORNS. Every woman is FVCKED UP in some form or fashion.

 

[PlateHerMan]

Selective reading. Elite women are attracted to elite men. I made this exact point in my previous post.

I already have widening access to those circles and we can all agree that proximity and social circles matter. For example closing my latest real estate deal got me a personal invitation to a real estate conference. Continuing to perform well at work will eventually get me place in Cannes and tickets to a movie premier (I work in media). You get the picture. The one thing that sets me apart from the vast majority of people within those circles is I have no family wealth. But I wouldn’t be the first ambitious man with no material wealth to land the type of woman you describe. Right now it isn't a key priority.

My friend is now engaged to the daughter of a Partner at one of the prominent Wall Street Banks (think Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs). So yes, in the real world (not the fairytale land of sosuave you inhabit) things are less straightforward. If I was a barman in Ibiza then my terms might be unrealistic but I am not.

Anyone who interprets this as wanting a "sugar momma" doesn't understand my posts and I don't have the time or inclination to alleviate their confusion.

^^^Bestrange dementia has become more pronounced and he remains the poster child for so suave's anti -petrol huffing campaign.

You sir are prone for a freak car battery licking accident.

 

[That_dude]

The ONLY thing you've "banged out" in your over 10 years and counting on these forums is nothing more than pure fantasy B.S. and word salad scroll bombs of gibberish. You sound like a BETA PHAGGOT.

He was bangin out Mary Palm and her 5 girlfriends hard to the core. Dats about it

Never felt the need to brag about how many times I been laid. That's loser chit

 

[PlateHerMan]

He was bangin out Mary Palm and her 5 girlfriends hard to the core. Dats about it

Never felt the need to brag about how many times I been laid. That's loser chit

Too bad Jewru1000 wasn't stuck in the path of hurricane Irma to get his Made in China lead wig washed and blow dried at 180mph.

When Jewru1000 posts about making "bank" he's just standing at his local CoinStar machine cashing in the change he stole from his momma. Mommies lil purse snatcher.

His fantasy dates are nothing more than his ex-con, social outcast coping mechanism.

Someone needs to put a sack over his head then beat it with a club till it stops making noise.

 

[guru1000]

Okay so here are my direct questions to you. When you get a moment, please answer them directly:

- This woman that you just described, how old is she? Is she over 25? Is she over 30? Why isn't she already married if (according to you) her entire life framework is centered on traditional values of being married and serving within the constructs of a marriage infrastructure? Why would she be 25, 30, etc., on Match.com looking to "get married" and not already married?

- Would you NOT AGREE that the woman you described, if she exists still in this market, would already be married by the age of 21 (in the vast majority of cases)?

This is one-dimensional thinking. You are trying to ascribe logic into a specific cage when there are myriad exceptions.

I met plenty of women 25-30yo that came from these cultures who either started dating very late in their life, virgins who were waiting to get married, had bad experiences, are extremely picky, etc.

I encourage you to expand your thinking a bit, be fluid, and stop placing people into boxes as there are many exceptions to any rule you invest into.

- Finally, why sign a marriage contract with this woman if you could obtain the same level of BENEFITS without signing a contract? Granted, maybe you can't do the arrangement with the same WOMAN, but the only benefits that a guy can obtain from women is sex, companionship, and some level of quality benefits such as her caring for the guy, cooking for the guy, paying for some dates, or buying him some gifts from time to time. These are BENEFITS you can obtain from a woman or women in general, without EVER signing a marriage contract.
You are naming benefits of a place.

We are discussing benefits of a strong LTR from a subset of women born and bred for strong familial bonds, which is much broader than sex and companionship. How about, a woman who bears, raises your lineage while you are out there conquering the world? How about a woman who's got your back, come hell or high water? How about a woman who adores you and will do everything to please you? Among dozens of other LTR benefits. Can a plate do this for you?

Of course, you will object this is blue-pill, Disney crap, but how do you rationally explain that 90% of the people I know from these select communities where I had grown up have these kind of marriages with these kinds of women, with, like I mentioned earlier in this thread, a nominal 10% or less divorce rate. I personally know and communicate with dozens of couples in our age bracket like this. This is not unicorn material if you are shopping in the correct supermarket.

That's not true. I have dated many black women who were never married, had no kids, had somewhat decent finances, and whose parents are still married. The black women had OTHER issues that I was concerned about, from attitude issues, high maintenance issues, and other "stuff". Plus in no way would I label these women as Unicorns, there ARE NO Unicorns. Just because a woman comes from "traditional values" Guru, that does not mean she is some Unicorn or any "Special" compared to any other woman out here.

You're looking at the tangibles, that is, "no kids," "never married," "decent finances." What about the intangibles such as her values, her social indoctrination, her biblical indoctrination, her community, her family, her company?

I personally think this new "campaign" you are on will fail......why? Because no matter what you say, facts are facts. The FACTS are that the Marriage Contract makes no logical or business sense, and there's nothing you can do legal wise (prenup, incorporations, transfers, etc.) to truly make sense of the Contract. The other FACT is that there are NO UNICORNS. Every woman is FVCKED UP in some form or fashion.

Marriage is a financial contract. Prenup is a financial contract. Corporate entities are implicit financial contracts of protection. You mitigate a financial contract against you with financial contracts for you--and reap the benefits of a potential soldier from good stock born and bred to enhance your life and raise your lineage. What does perpetual plate spinning leave you with: a soar ****, lots of Viagra to keep up (as you get older), rinse & repeat every few months, time, energy, money, cynicism incited by a crap market, dealing with princesses, dealing with occasional lunatics, headaches--and in your case rants, explosions, and hundreds of hours of complaining about the state of the market?

LTR with the right women sounds like a much better overall investment to me, my life, my well being, and my sanity than perpetual plate spinning.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

It's a very simple equation today for the 'alpha' male.

Given the culture collapse and chaos between the sexes, he should be done with the mass of mediocre women [the Delilahs and Jezebels]. Of course, to effectively go his own way involves self-mastery. It is crucial here. It is only because he lacks mastery over himself, that women will master him [is he then even an 'alpha'?]. From this state of autonomy and freedom, where his rational desires have conquered his irrational desires, he may choose to freely enter into a relationship with a worthy woman, or not. Simples.

Everything else is simply a waste of his time... the most valuable resource he has.