Who here wants to get married and why?

[AJ84]

No one can answer why the CONTRACT is necessary when you can have the RELATIONSHIP without it.

I think between the two of us, we have asked these people a good 10 times to tell us why the CONTRACT is necessary and not one of them can come up with jack sh*t lol.

You clearly are against marriage, which is your choice, so why did you start a thread asking people why they want to get married? So you can ridicule and argue with them?

Wtf is wrong with you.

 

[Pumpndump]

How is this a problem exactly?

I have to get married if I want access to a level of social, financial and economic power that would be otherwise difficult, if not impossible to achieve alone? Acceptable.

If she enhances my life she is worthy of that commitment. Ironically you guys seem to be clinging on to this Disney fantasy of love. I'm under no illusion. We may enjoy each other's company and have a mutual attraction towards each other but if we aren't satisfying each other needs then it won't work.

I'm happy to trade my desire for a socially and financially advantageous matchup with a traditional, attractive, supportive partner for her desire to be married. Sounds like a reasonable trade off to me. Risks and all.

So you need a younger 10 and her well to do parents to make things financially comfy for you while you squirrel away your piggy bank in order for you to say yes to marriage. What value do you have to offer that 10's and their well off parents are going to bid for your hand in marriage on some bitcoin auction block? You expect 10s who are all hypergamous to marry down and support you with nothing to offer but marrying them. LOL #foreveralone.

 

[resilient]

So you need a younger 10 and her well to do parents to make things financially comfy for you while you squirrel away your piggy bank in order for you to say yes to marriage. What value do you have to offer that 10's and their well off parents are going to bid for your hand in marriage on some bitcoin auction block? You expect 10s who are all hypergamous to marry down and support you with nothing to offer but marrying them. LOL #foreveralone.

Naughty Ninja!

 

[BeExcellent]

@Tenacity the thing is that the marriage contract is not a cartoon at all if both parties take it very seriously. Laws are cartoons too if people don't take them seriously. Did Al Capone ever let what is or isn't legal get in his way? I think not. He saw the legal statutes as a cartoon to use your lingo.

For me commitment means commitment. If I give my word in a commitment then I abide by it come hell or high water. But both parties have to do this. If one does and the other doesn't then over time the partner who holds up their end of the bargain is more & more taken advantage of within the marriage. The marriage then erodes, whether the couple remains together or splits.

My father used to say that picking a spouse is very like picking a business partner for that is in fact what you are doing. You must pick rationally and not emotionally. If @BeTheChange picks in this way (as he described above) he actually stands a better chance at success.

Everybody gets hung up on attraction. Attraction is great but it clouds rational judgement. Dating someone whose bones you want to jump is well, fine and good but you must screen for values and character and be willing to relinquish the person if they do not measure up in the character and values department. This is where epic fails occur. In giving a pass on red flags because of wild sex or crazy attraction one often inadvertently selects for poor character which always comes back to bite you.

Incidentally this is also why in some cultures the elders arrange marriage for the youth. Precisely because in youth people often have not developed judgement and discernment. It's a foreign way of doing things to a modern western adult's paradigm but there are people who come from more conservative cultures around the world where this is still a respected tradition. And to be fair those arranged marriages don't always work out either.

There do exist women who still take the marriage contract very seriously. I know plenty of women to whom this applies, myself included. I am raising young women to respect and honor traditional roles and values, and so are many of my friends. But these women DO get taken out of the market young as a general rule because these women have high value in the marketplace for their values, character and training if you will to be a good wife. The real work of being married starts after the wedding night. Not before. Wise women know this and so do wise men. Therefore one must vet carefully and chose a spouse rationally.

 

[resilient]

My father used to say that picking a spouse is very like picking a business partner for that is in fact what you are doing. You must pick rationally and not emotionally.

I feel like that's why young people in their late teens and 20s marry for love too early before maturing. Get divorced.. then look into marriage the second time (or first time, depending on what LTRs they've been in) in their 30s and 40s closer in alignment with sound money principles like an investment in knowing your partner can fully take care of themselves and is on a firmly stable career path.

Why else, then risk a second marriage in ending in divorce?

Screening becomes that more viable.

No one wants a reputation of marrying several times hoping to get things right and it all goes to sh!t after a few years in especially when one or both partners fail to live up to expectations and needs stop getting being met emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

 

[BeExcellent]

When you say: "The top calibre of woman, particularly from traditional families, won't expect anything less."

What you are REALLY saying is: "I have to get married because SHE says so. Even if it might be bad for me".

LOL. Weak.

The top caliber of women have the most choice in the marketplace and they have many options with high value men. They know this. They are well aware of their value. Therefore yes, they determine the choices. If they expect to be married they will not settle for a man who won't marry. They WON'T. If you don't want to marry such a woman you will be dropped by her in favor of another similar man of similar qualifications who DOES want to marry. And these women make the best wives. So you get dumped and the other guy gets a great wife. And you sir then get to keep sorting through the left-overs and wondering why there aren't many gems in the trash heap.

That is the law of the jungle where the best women are concerned and it has always been that way since the days of Helen of Troy and before.

Rummaging through the trash heap will jade your perspective. No argument there. But the argument that there is no such thing as quality is a terrifically flawed and self defeating view.

 

[Tenacity]

@Tenacity the thing is that the marriage contract is not a cartoon at all if both parties take it very seriously.

And that's what the discussion centers on. My entire premise is based on the fact that Men and Women no longer need each other, and most marriages today are nothing but "checks off the box" for convenience, entertainment, and preference seeking purposes. Which means I don't believe it's taken as seriously as it was in previous times, when the marriage was based more so on survival.

Keep in mind, the structure of the Marriage Agreement says one spouse can leave at any time, for any or no reason. But the Marriage "vows" state to death do you part. So the Marriage Agreement and the Marriage vows are not in alignment whatsoever, which means the entire thing is nothing but a major Cartoon Show for the people getting married.......and nothing but a major BUSINESS for those who participate in the Family Law process such as Pastors, Churches, Attorneys, Judges, etc. who are cashing in on this Cartoon Show.

 

[BeExcellent]

@deesade all I am saying is that there are traditionally minded women in the west. Demure, feminine, supportive etc. They are rare but if you know where to look you can find them if that's what you are after.

I've no argument with you at all about me. I do as I please now and have afforded myself that ability through sacrifice & hard work. Should a great man come along I am happy to assume fully the classical traditional wife's role. Unless and until then my life suits me fine. I do have my cake & eat it too...as you do. As you know I am unlikely to marry again. I've no clock ticking and no agenda along the lines of marriage. I'd require a great deal of convincing by a great man. As well as I do it's still a small pool, and I'm a pragmatist.

@Tenacity if you find it to be a cartoon, don't do it. It's a simple enough solution.

But why the vitriol for those that desire marriage? These are intelligent men here who understand reality. I expect they can assume the inherent risk knowing what they do in exchange for a chance at family and the other benefits marriage can provide.

This idea that it's all bad news under all circumstances is untrue, misguided and protecting a belief system.

Some of you don't like any challenges to your closely held beliefs.

 

[Tenacity]

@Tenacity if you find it to be a cartoon, don't do it. It's a simple enough solution.

But why the vitriol for those that desire marriage? These are intelligent men here who understand reality. I expect they can assume the inherent risk knowing what they do in exchange for a chance at family and the other benefits marriage can provide.

This idea that it's all bad news under all circumstances is untrue, misguided and protecting a belief system.

Some of you don't like any challenges to your closely held beliefs.

Well yeah, I told them at the end of the day if they want to do it......do it. But I think it's a very productive discussion for everyone involved to really, truly, critically, and logically, break down the concept of marriage, why people get married, and the new market forces at play today.

A lot of my points, questions, and viewpoints have not really been addressed by those in the thread that either disagree or were indifferent to. I have, on the other hand, directly addressed all questions.

 

[Pumpndump]

Well yeah, I told them at the end of the day if they want to do it......do it. But I think it's a very productive discussion for everyone involved to really, truly, critically, and logically, break down the concept of marriage, why people get married, and the new market forces at play today.

A lot of my points, questions, and viewpoints have not really been addressed by those in the thread that either disagree or were indifferent to. I have, on the other hand, directly addressed all questions.

Tenacity you should know better. There are those who will constantly disagree with you for no other reason than because you don't always head nod in agreement with them.

 

[Urbanyst]

How is this a problem exactly?

I have to get married if I want access to a level of social, financial and economic power that would be otherwise difficult, if not impossible to achieve alone? Acceptable.

If she enhances my life she is worthy of that commitment. Ironically you guys seem to be clinging on to this Disney fantasy of love. I'm under no illusion. We may enjoy each other's company and have a mutual attraction towards each other but if we aren't satisfying each other needs then it won't work.

I'm happy to trade my desire for a socially and financially advantageous matchup with a traditional, attractive, supportive partner for her desire to be married. Sounds like a reasonable trade off to me. Risks and all.

So you're looking for a sugar mama?

Ok.. fair enough. I would do that too lol.

You clearly are against marriage, which is your choice, so why did you start a thread asking people why they want to get married? So you can ridicule and argue with them?

Wtf is wrong with you.

Where do you see arguing? I asked people WHY the contract is necessary and they refuse to tell me.

Asking a QUESTION is arguing now? A question you STILL have not answered btw lol.

 

[Urbanyst]

The top caliber of women have the most choice in the marketplace and they have many options with high value men. They know this. They are well aware of their value. Therefore yes, they determine the choices. If they expect to be married they will not settle for a man who won't marry. They WON'T. If you don't want to marry such a woman you will be dropped by her in favor of another similar man of similar qualifications who DOES want to marry. And these women make the best wives. So you get dumped and the other guy gets a great wife. And you sir then get to keep sorting through the left-overs and wondering why there aren't many gems in the trash heap.

That is the law of the jungle where the best women are concerned and it has always been that way since the days of Helen of Troy and before.

Rummaging through the trash heap will jade your perspective. No argument there. But the argument that there is no such thing as quality is a terrifically flawed and self defeating view.

Blue pill sh*t.

You get more delusional Hollywood movie by the day lol.

This claim that a "top woman" somehow has more options than a "top man" is ludicrous. A top man who does not want to marry will simply f*ck and chuck the woman who wants marriage in favor of a top woman who is on the same page.

And no... not all "top women" want to get married.

You people must think I was born yesterday. Try again lol.

 

[guru1000]

Yes, that's right gentlemen. I'm going to make SoSuave a pro-marriage (under certain circumstances) and how to protect your ass(ets) site. Those days of bashing marriages are over. I have dated and banged more hot women than all of the active members on this site combined, literally, and I can tell you there is no long-term happiness in perpetual plate spinning. But if you enjoy perpetual plate-spinning, go right ahead, SoSuave supports either approach.

This is not to be confused with the following:

1) If a girl you are LTRing has no need to marry or will stay unmarried, then you definitely continue relations without the marriage contract;

2) Prenups mitigate but do not eliminate, so be prepared to effect investments/businesses with sophisticated instruments if you're holding assets;

3) Plate spinning has a great purpose, but for those DJs who meet a great girl who has a specific "need" to marry, SoSuave will no longer shame you not to get married.

@Urbanyst Read the actual posts I made and you will answer your own question;

@Tenacity, You have episodes of offing women and you deny that if your defined quality girl appeared with a "need" to marry, you would plate her. You're full of bullocks.

@deesade You alerted me that you unfollowed me, LOL.

 

[guru1000]

Who is she?

Haha, none yet. But will one day.

 

[BeTheChange]

So you need a younger 10 and her well to do parents to make things financially comfy for you while you squirrel away your piggy bank in order for you to say yes to marriage. What value do you have to offer that 10's and their well off parents are going to bid for your hand in marriage on some bitcoin auction block? You expect 10s who are all hypergamous to marry down and support you with nothing to offer but marrying them. LOL #foreveralone.

Selective reading. Elite women are attracted to elite men. I made this exact point in my previous post.

I already have widening access to those circles and we can all agree that proximity and social circles matter. For example closing my latest real estate deal got me a personal invitation to a real estate conference. Continuing to perform well at work will eventually get me place in Cannes and tickets to a movie premier (I work in media). You get the picture. The one thing that sets me apart from the vast majority of people within those circles is I have no family wealth. But I wouldn’t be the first ambitious man with no material wealth to land the type of woman you describe. Right now it isn't a key priority.

My friend is now engaged to the daughter of a Partner at one of the prominent Wall Street Banks (think Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs). So yes, in the real world (not the fairytale land of sosuave you inhabit) things are less straightforward. If I was a barman in Ibiza then my terms might be unrealistic but I am not.

Anyone who interprets this as wanting a "sugar momma" doesn't understand my posts and I don't have the time or inclination to alleviate their confusion.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

There's lots of good stuff in this thread.

I agree completely with the ideas presented by @guru1000 and @TheProspect and others in this thread.

Marriage is doing best on the higher end of the marketplace where the quality of people is inherently better.

There are two advantages marriage has that have been alluded to but not fully described yet.

The first and most important is that in a good marriage the spouses function in close partnership throughout their lives. Roles and responsibilities are different but complimentary, child rearing, family stability and sexual satisfaction are important elements, but intimacy, friendship, companionship and real love (entirely sacrificial and giving in nature) develop and deepen over time.

Women who have been raised to value these things understand that commitment is a precursor to development of real love. These are women who hold out for the correct environment (the marriage construct) because they know that framework is what fosters real love, deep intimacy and lifelong commitment & partnership. And they will hold out for a man who also "gets it."

The second advantage is that for a man to fulfill his life's ambitions he functions best when entirely focused. Dating & sorting through myriad women is an expensive & time consuming process. It's distracting. You can make unlimited money but you cannot create more time. So a man who finds a good wife increases his efficiency in life and also reaps the ability to focus more on his own endeavors & life purpose because the woman/partner/mate aspect of his life is settled and stable.

That can be an enormous comfort and advantage.

And it remains encumbent on both spouses not to take each other for granted and to continue to strive to be their best selves.

It won't work if either one gets lazy or complacent.

Too much bandwidth is spent here on the negative aspects of marriage and that is certainly understandable & to be expected here. There ARE positive aspects as well and I think it's a good thing to discuss them & understand them.

All around us good unions do exist. So it's obviously possible to achieve. You guys understand more than the average man, in fact in some ways the red pill, for all the truth it gives, it also jades men in some cases to a degree such that all is dark, all is foul, all is not to be trusted. And that gentlemen in and of itself is just as much a lie as the Disney belief set is a lie.

Cheers

The problem is that the marriage laws and family court are totally out of sync with the type of marriage BE has described here.

Morality, commitment, and sacrifice mean nothing in divorce court. You could have been an amazing, caring, faithful, loving spouse. In family court it does not matter. If you've been a good provider in a long term marriage, instead of being rewarded, you are punished via alimony laws.

Your spouse could have been the town *****, family court doesn't care. With no reason whatsoever, your spouse can destroy your marriage, take half your assets and there is the possibility (depending on the length of the marriage) that you might have to pay them money for the rest of your life.

So, with regard to sosuave being "anti marriage" with the implication that its a philosophical argument or perhaps because the poster is a "woman hater" has nothing to do with the absolute fact that the original concept of marriage and the way marriage laws are enforced have nothing to do with each other.

The marriage laws are morally bankrupt. That's not conjecture, it is fact.

-Augustus-

 

[Tenacity]

Yes, that's right gentlemen. I'm going to make SoSuave a pro-marriage (under certain circumstances) and how to protect your ass(ets) site.

But didn't we already establish that there's no way to 100% protect your assets? And Sosuave shouldn't be pro or against marriage, the decision to marry is an individual based situation. What Sosuave should be, is what this thread has become, which is a place where QUALITY INFORMATION is disclosed outlining the truth of a subject matter, and allow the individual guy to make his own decision on what he wants to do.

These are the types of discussions I like to have with you guys. No bickering, no flaming, etc. Just guys (or girls) detailing their perspective viewpoints on a topic to put all of the information out there, allowing the audience members to decide what their individual life paths are.

I have dated and banged more hot women than all of the active members on this site combined, literally

For one, there's absolutely no way we can track or measure that. Number two, dating/banging a lot of chicks has nothing to do with marriage....as the former is just a guy taking advantage of this BOOMING short term dating/ONS market that we are in, and the latter is a completely different situation where you are subject to an inefficient government contract that can blow up at any minute for any reason or no reason.

.....and I can tell you there is no long-term happiness in perpetual plate spinning.

Whoa, now wait a minute. Wait a minute here. You have been one of the main guys on this website talking about how men should NOT see women as any foundation, framework, or structure for their "happiness" in life. It's been preached multiple times that a guy should chase his passions in life and obtain his "happiness/joy/peace" from that area and just bring women in as a supplement to a life he already is content with.

Now you are saying that continuing to spin plates is getting tiring and you are looking for something more? Something deeper? Isn't that the EXACT same stuff you were laughing at me about a couple of months ago when I was looking for the same thing?

By the way, I came to the realization there is no "deeper", there is no soul-mate, women just are what the hell they are. What you see......is what you get. I stopped searching for something "deeper" and just learned to enjoy the chick for being sexy, providing good companionship, good sex, and having someone to go hang out with at various spots. Occasionally you might get a chick that does some "nice things for you", but there's nothing deep or spiritual with any of these relationships.

2) Prenups mitigate but do not eliminate, so be prepared to effect investments/businesses with sophisticated instruments if you're holding assets;

Too much work to create a "plan" that still has a high potential to fail......as understand it all depends upon how the marriage played out during the active run time. For example, if your chick got pregnant and became a housewife, alimony could be brought into the table and prenups (along with other structures) could become useless due to her arguing that her marketplace skills have diminished.

Dude it's just a complete and utter headache. And with a job market and economy being so F'ed up right now for those 20 - 35 (in terms of finding high paying jobs), why would any guy want to RISK the money he has over something that isn't even required? Huh? For what purpose?

You can have "love", sex, companionship, a "decent woman", and all of the touchy feely "feel goodery" stuff with a woman without EVER signing a marriage contract. And if the woman you are with wants to leave you because you won't sign said contract, let her leave, why? Because literally within 3 - 10 days you would have REPLACED HER with another woman that is providing the same level of benefits.

 

[That_dude]

I'd give it serious consideration.. If the right one came along and we had a mutually satisfying relationship. Keyword = mutually
Otherwise I'm totally cool living the bachelor life

 

[Urbanyst]

@Urbanyst Read the actual posts I made and you will answer your own question;

Umm.. no.

How about YOU answer my question. Its a very simple question.

How about you answer a DIRECT question DIRECTLY and stop acting like a woman lol.

 

[BeTheChange]

Because literally within 3 - 10 days you would have REPLACED HER with another woman that is providing the same level of benefits.

If you honestly believe this then you really must be dumpster diving.