Who here wants to get married and why?

[Tenacity]

What is love? Especially in the first few years of knowing someone. I would argue that "love" is not possible in any relation especially in the first few years, if possible at all as love means you are putting others' interests before your own, which belies the human inclination to receive for thyself.

Rather, the correct perspective is you have "needs," and she has "needs."

If she doesn't meet your needs, you will leave.
If you don't meet her needs, she will leave.

Now again,Tenacity sieved through 200 women in six years in historically the most horrendous marketplace and has never found a woman with no divorce, no kids, no divorces in her immediate family, strong traditional family values, good financial habits, lives to be a good wife and mother, lives to support her husband in every manner she can ("Unicorn"). But as Tenacity is tenacious, he continues his search. One day, four years and 200 more women later, Tenacity finds this Unicorn. However, this Unicorn is borne of a traditional family and was indoctrinated with a "need" to be married. This type of woman also will not entertain a relation without the end goal of being married.

Remember now, "love" for the sake of this discussion does not exist.

Now, it's been 10 years and 400 women total. Finally, alas ... after all these threads, rants, and complaints about the horrible marketplace ... Tenacity finally finds such a woman. What does Tenacity do?

I told you that Tenacity would date/be in a relationship with her until she leaves lol. You are actually making your argument worse now, by stating that the woman is REQUESTING that you marry her and she hasn't even fully grown into LOVING you yet.

Which means, again, that her request that you marry her is based more so (or completely) on the "concept or act of being married" rather than being spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, and soulfully connected to you, in love with you, and in the position of not being able to live without you.

So if you want to run around fulfilling this chick's "dream" of dressing up like Barbie in a white dress, walking down the aisle, and having her "princess wedding".......that's on you. Go ahead and pull out your Citi Double Cash Card and finance her "dream" on that to collect your 2% cashback.

But Tenacity is not about to take part in any of that foolishness. I'm going to fvck her, date her, and plate her until she "leaves" due to the fact that Tenacity won't sign some silly government contract. She will be a special plate though, one I do more things for and treat a bit better than the other plates

 

[guru1000]

I told you that Tenacity would date/be in a relationship with her until she leaves lol. You are actually making your argument worse now, by stating that the woman is REQUESTING that you marry her and she hasn't even fully grown into LOVING you yet.


Which means, again, that her request that you marry her is based more so (or completely) on the "concept or act of being married" rather than being spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, and soulfully connected to you, in love with you, and in the position of not being able to live without you.

Yes, love does not exist, in most cases prior to marriage. We have to accept this notion moving forward in this discussion.

There are only "needs," yours and hers.

So if you want to run around fulfilling this chick's "dream" of dressing up like Barbie in a white dress, walking down the aisle, and having her "princess wedding".......that's on you. Go ahead and pull out your Citi Double Cash Card and finance her "dream" on that to collect your 2% cashback.

Remember, the girl we speak of is raised from a traditional household. This means her family pays for the bulk of the wedding. But you will pay for a ring.

But Tenacity is not about to take part in any of that foolishness. I'm going to fvck her, date her, and plate her until she "leaves" due to the fact that Tenacity won't sign some silly government contract. She will be a special plate though, one I do more things for and treat a bit better than the other plates

So here's the real subject matter.

My question to you is WHY?

You have let's say a 50/50 chance to stay married with this Unicorn, even a greater chance as she comes from good stock. If your marriage succeeds, you can stay away from the horrid marketplace and not need to deal with garbage for the rest of your life. If the marriage fails, then you will be in the same marketplace regardless. The downside is financial, which could be properly mitigated with prenup/corporate structure/offshore trusts. You could even find a Unicorn with greater financials than you, so she has the liability of divorce.

So ... WHY?

 

[Tenacity]

You have let's say a 50/50 chance to stay married with this Unicorn, even a greater chance as she comes from good stock. If your marriage succeeds, you can stay away from the horrid marketplace and not need to deal with garbage for the rest of your life. If the marriage fails, then you will be in the same marketplace regardless. The downside is financial, which could be properly mitigated with prenup/corporate structure/offshore trusts. You could even find a Unicorn with greater financials than you, so she has the liability of divorce.

So ... WHY?

A couple of reasons:

- I'm taking a gamble for absolutely no reason, as I can obtain sex and companionship from similar young, hot, women without signing a marriage contract. Sure, this woman you speak of has a nice foundation, still doesn't change the fact that the only BENEFITS I can truly get from any woman is sex and companionship for the most part.

- This Unicorn that you speak of has a time clock on how long she will remain young, hot, and sexy. As the years go by, her looks fade. I'm also locked into screwing the exact, same, pvssy over and over again (assuming she lets me get some as many husbands have issues getting their wives to fvck often).

- The market is horrible for an LTR, but this doesn't mean that the Marriage Agreement is the answer, it actually makes things quite worse. Like I said, I would support a Civil Union Agreement over a Marriage Agreement.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Without a prenup, any assets, even pre-marital assets--are subject for contention.

With a prenup, any assets, even pre-marital assets--are subject for contention if "commingling" of assets can be established or the prenup is set aside for duress, fraud, collusion, incompetency, unconsiousnability, and dozens of other legal arguments to vacate its merits.

Understand in a court of law, you are subject to a specific jurisdiction with specific case laws that can be superseded by alternate case law adjudicated by appellate courts at any and at a later time. Ergo your prenup last year was strong, but this year could be weak. What holds true today may not hold true tomorrow. Bottom line, you are not guaranteed to be protected with a prenup alone.

This is a good post, and I agree very much. I have said similar things on here before. A prenup is a contract. If a lawyer who is better than the one who wrote it comes along later, then he's likely to get it tossed. And the practice of law is not any different than anything from computer hacking to kung-fu fighting, in that there is always going to be someone out there who is better than you.

 

[TheProspect]

Is it a coincidence that a lot of men whose posts contains bitter undertones of hate and distrust for women (for simply being women), are probably the same type of men that any woman or unicorn worthy of marrying (“if she exists”) will instantly disregard when she meets him or discovers his true nature? Especially when, as Guru says, she has been indoctrinated by her traditional family with a “need” to be married. Traditionally-raised women fall in love with concept of marriage, having children and the white picket fence type of life. It’s not that a girl doesn’t really love you if she doesn’t accept that you don’t want to get married, and she subsequently wants to break up because of it, it means she loves and values herself enough to find someone who shares her values and aspirations instead of someone who is skeptical of the long-term outcome. We could break it off with a woman if our expectations weren't being met (at least we should, within reason), regardless of how we felt about them, I don't know why we are so judgemental about when a woman does it.

I’m not an advocate of marriage nor am I against it, I understand both point of views, and I believe a lot men set themselves up for disappointment in regards to marriage. But I noticed that women stopped being so “evil” and "malicious" when I stopped being so cynical of them, and just accepted their nature as it is, the good and the bad. I stopped making decisions based on fear of what a woman will or won't do, and my life and interactions with women are better as a result. But that doesn't mean I am suggesting to get married without proper forethought, or at all. Most people who get married, or who were married, settled to one degree or another, and then blame the nature of women when it doesn't work out.. I think that's ludicrous lol .... A lot of men need to realize they aren't the male version of a "unicorn", or even close to it, so they shouldn't be surprised when they can't come across one themselves (or believe in one to begin with).

 

[guru1000]

I'm taking a gamble for absolutely no reason,

You say absolutely no reason. This doesn't make any sense to me.

In the last three years, you have had dozens of meltdowns and emotional outrages. You have invested hundreds of hours complaining about the state of the market and how the market is crap. You threatened to go postal numerous times.

And here comes a woman with a specific "need," who may take you away from meltdowns, emotional outrages, hundreds of hours of complaining about the market, keep you from going postal, and raise your family/lineage--and you say absolutely no reason or benefit?

Explain.

 

[BeTheChange]

I will marry if and when it is socially and financially advantageous for me to do so. Think House of Cards. Frank Underwood marrying Claire because her Daddy has the funds to support his run for Congress. I'm not even joking.

The conundrum is in the difficulty in marrying a woman from the elite without being part of the elite. Thus the hustle.

However, if you want a woman in this bracket, you will most likely have to marry her to keep her around long term.

@guru1000 nailed it. The top calibre of woman, particularly from traditional families, won't expect anything less. The overall marriage rate (and marriage success rate) is actually highest amongst the richest and upper class. Shoot for the moon.

 

[resilient]

So you can "screen" and do your analysis.

The sh!tty thing about screening is that you can't screen out that she'll fall out of love one day down the road and file for divorce after while going through hardships (losing a job, losing parent(s), siblings, children, etc. to death, health issues like cancer, disease, etc..

You see women hear the common advice: go see a couple's therapist, communicate (talk things out with a "heart to heart"), talk to a priest/pastor, older mentor to sort out issues.

How many of those struggling marriages do their time in therapy and "work on" issues, when interest level is really at play here?

A luring branch to secure the next relationship during separation and divorce (or at least have a mindless affair) is that more attractive. Key relevance in that many women will blame the husband for the marriage falling apart.

Us men aren't unicorns ourselves like someone else mentioned. We contribute our own downfall to the marriage as well. Letting ourselves go, gain weight, lazy, poor hygiene, stop leading, stop dating her, etc.

Little, do you see women recognize their take in the marriage decline and work on themselves hard to jumpstart the marriage. They just emotionally and physically check out.

I just don't think a majority of marriages can keep interest level primed greater than 50+% for decades without the marriage stability falling off the wagon (at least in this day and age) and heading for the exit sign.

Loyalty and commitment don't have the value like they used to when both genders served and met each other's needs (often for financial survivability).

Obviously, there are signs that the marriage is on the rocks and the man tries to adjust accordingly to patch the holes in the ship. If there's temptation, unhappily married women friends of hers, happy divorced/single spinsters, she'll be influenced by their opinions (i.e. "Why am I still with this pathetic loser?" kind of thinking).

There's also the statistic out there with each subsequent marriage the chance of divorce is even greater.

 

[BeExcellent]

There's lots of good stuff in this thread.

I agree completely with the ideas presented by @guru1000 and @TheProspect and others in this thread.

Marriage is doing best on the higher end of the marketplace where the quality of people is inherently better.

There are two advantages marriage has that have been alluded to but not fully described yet.

The first and most important is that in a good marriage the spouses function in close partnership throughout their lives. Roles and responsibilities are different but complimentary, child rearing, family stability and sexual satisfaction are important elements, but intimacy, friendship, companionship and real love (entirely sacrificial and giving in nature) develop and deepen over time.

Women who have been raised to value these things understand that commitment is a precursor to development of real love. These are women who hold out for the correct environment (the marriage construct) because they know that framework is what fosters real love, deep intimacy and lifelong commitment & partnership. And they will hold out for a man who also "gets it."

The second advantage is that for a man to fulfill his life's ambitions he functions best when entirely focused. Dating & sorting through myriad women is an expensive & time consuming process. It's distracting. You can make unlimited money but you cannot create more time. So a man who finds a good wife increases his efficiency in life and also reaps the ability to focus more on his own endeavors & life purpose because the woman/partner/mate aspect of his life is settled and stable.

That can be an enormous comfort and advantage.

And it remains encumbent on both spouses not to take each other for granted and to continue to strive to be their best selves.

It won't work if either one gets lazy or complacent.

Too much bandwidth is spent here on the negative aspects of marriage and that is certainly understandable & to be expected here. There ARE positive aspects as well and I think it's a good thing to discuss them & understand them.

All around us good unions do exist. So it's obviously possible to achieve. You guys understand more than the average man, in fact in some ways the red pill, for all the truth it gives, it also jades men in some cases to a degree such that all is dark, all is foul, all is not to be trusted. And that gentlemen in and of itself is just as much a lie as the Disney belief set is a lie.

Cheers

 

[BeTheChange]

The second advantage is that for a man to fulfill his life's ambitions he functions best when entirely focused. Dating & sorting through myriad women is an expensive & time consuming process. It's distracting. You can make unlimited money but you cannot create more time. So a man who finds a good wife increases his efficiency in life and also reaps the ability to focus more on his own endeavors & life purpose because the woman/partner/mate aspect of his life is settled and stable.

The importance of this point cannot be stated enough.

 

[Urbanyst]

And @guru1000 still has not answered the main question:

If this woman is going to stay with you ANYWAY.. why marry her?

And if she will leave you ANYWAY (if you don't meet her needs) why marry her?

Can you answer the flippin' question already and stop talking in circles? Lol.

 

[Urbanyst]

@guru1000 nailed it. The top calibre of woman, particularly from traditional families, won't expect anything less. The overall marriage rate (and marriage success rate) is actually highest amongst the richest and upper class. Shoot for the moon.

When you say: "The top calibre of woman, particularly from traditional families, won't expect anything less."

What you are REALLY saying is: "I have to get married because SHE says so. Even if it might be bad for me".

LOL. Weak.

The importance of this point cannot be stated enough.

There is NO such thing as "stable".

She posted the most blue pill statement I've seen in a while and you saps are actually falling for this lol.

 

[Tenacity]

In the last three years, you have had dozens of meltdowns and emotional outrages. You have invested hundreds of hours complaining about the state of the market and how the market is crap. You threatened to go postal numerous times.

Correct, but what does getting married have to do with any of that and how does marriage solve any of that?

And here comes a woman with a specific "need," who may take you away from meltdowns, emotional outrages, hundreds of hours of complaining about the market, keep you from going postal, and raise your family/lineage--and you say absolutely no reason or benefit?

Explain.

Okay, granted, she "may" cause me (or fool me) into seeing women in this Disney/Blue Pill like manner, leading me to foolishly put my entire LIFE'S SAVINGS on the line for her. But the reality is that with women in general, Tenacity and ANY man should always strive to remain level-headed and use logic in everything.

No woman should ever make me get to the point where I'm having the emotional rants of wanting to stomp them (I'm still working on that) and no woman should ever "get me so programmed" to want to SIGN a marriage contract that logically makes absolutely no sense, putting me at risk to where if at anytime she changes, doesn't love me anymore, or whatever, she can drop a financial BOMB on me.

- Also keep in mind that just because a girl's parents and grandparents were married and stayed married, that has absolutely nothing to do with your marriage to this girl in particular as the market of her parents/grandparents was completely different than ours.

- Back then, the women were FORCED into marriage for various reasons. They got married and stayed married for survival based reasons and usually were married by the time they were 21. It was the cultural thing to do at the time. Today's culture is completely different, I mean COMPLETELY different. So bringing up the fact that her parents/grandparents were married and comparing that to her reason for getting married, is like comparing an apple to a watermelon because her reasons for getting married and her mother/grandmother's reasons for getting married are NOT the same.

We have already established that this "Unicorn" you are describing doesn't even love you yet, she loves the concept of marriage and she's USING YOU to fulfill said "dream role" in her head. That was NOT the basis for why her mother and grandmother got married, they were not looking to dress up as "dream princess" for a day, they got married or they got shamed, kicked out of the family, kicked out of the culture, and they also didn't know how the hell they would survive from a resource standpoint.

If this were the same reality for your "Unicorn" then she would already be married before she turned 21 and off the market. There's NO WAY she would be on the market, or on Match.com, or on Okcupid.com, or at some Networking Event "single" and accepting of your cold approach.

 

[Atom Smasher]

...real love (entirely sacrificial and giving in nature) develop and deepen over time.

This is something that very few can relate to in their youth. At the very heart of authentic love is the desire and drive to give sacrificially to the other person. It's the concept of "taking care of each other" even at significant inconvenience.

This can be the running thread in a healthy relationship where both parties know that they share this same ethic. In my case, our faith as Christians is a huge and essential factor in our compatibility. It's a really valuable and rare edge (in terms of relationship success) to have. We've both been refined through our faith and in submitting to and accepting that refinement. The means of that refinement is usually suffering of one kind or another. In fact, through this relationship, I'm pleasantly surprised every day to discover how refined I've actually become without even knowing it. I find myself very patient with her, far more than I've been with past women. She herself is the epitome of patience.

Someone mentioned the Christian rules of divorce when it comes to infidelity. It is in fact allowed in the case of infidelity. That's the only legit reason for it.

"But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
Matt 5:32

A marriage vow is a vow. People today place no value whatsoever on promises and vows. "The vow is "good" for the time-being until I decide to change it" seems to be the way of today.

In youth, marriage is a slippery slope because both are young, malleable and full of passion. People today grow up much later than they did 25 years ago. That fact is largely responsible for the failure of so many relationships, along with today's "me. me, me" mentality.

I would say that most marriages, by far, happen in spite of very poor vetting of the partner. As I always say, I'm convinced that the quality women get married fairly young, and because they are decent women, they stay in their marriages long-term. This is why all we see is trash out there. The good ones were scooped up early. For myself, I hit the lottery, and I know it. But it was possible to happen because I've taken the hammer and chisel to myself for my entire life. I made myself ready, and made myself visible to the 2%.

 

[Tenacity]

There are two advantages marriage has that have been alluded to but not fully described yet.

The first and most important is that in a good marriage the spouses function in close partnership throughout their lives. Roles and responsibilities are different but complimentary, child rearing, family stability and sexual satisfaction are important elements, but intimacy, friendship, companionship and real love (entirely sacrificial and giving in nature) develop and deepen over time.

Women who have been raised to value these things understand that commitment is a precursor to development of real love. These are women who hold out for the correct environment (the marriage construct) because they know that framework is what fosters real love, deep intimacy and lifelong commitment & partnership. And they will hold out for a man who also "gets it."

BeExcellent here's the issue with this though.

You and @guru1000 keep talking about these particular women operating in TODAY'S market, who were raised up in a married household.....as if that would translate into one of us guys marrying those women right now and getting the same STRUCTURE that her mother/father had setup.

Understand something here, we are operating today in a post women's liberation world. In today's market, women do not need men for anything based on any type of survival based resource. Women can go out and acquire their own resources. Men don't need women anymore in terms of household related activities due to advancements in technology.

- Today's relationships are founded on convenience, entertainment, and preference.

- Relationships prior to women's liberation and advancements in technology were founded on survival.

It does not matter that a girl grew up in a married household, today's relationships are founded on completely different variables than that of her parents.

And like I mentioned in the above post, if the girl in question was SO QUALITY, she would already be married, just like her mother and grandmother were already married by the time they turned 21. There's no way she would be 25 - 35 and still on the market, or on Match.com with some "profile" up talking about she's a quality woman looking for a husband. That's B.S. lol. She's no quality anything. She is looking to "check off a box" of things to do in life and one of them is to dress up as a "dream princess" for a day, which again, is a relationship founded on convenience, entertainment, and preference.........not survival.

 

[Urbanyst]

The importance of this point cannot be stated enough.

BeExcellent here's the issue with this though.

You and @guru1000 keep talking about these particular women operating in TODAY'S market, who were raised up in a married household.....as if that would translate into one of us guys marrying those women right now and getting the same STRUCTURE that her mother/father had setup.

Understand something here, we are operating today in a post women's liberation world. In today's market, women do not need men for anything based on any type of survival based resource. Women can go out and acquire their own resources. Men don't need women anymore in terms of household related activities due to advancements in technology.

- Today's relationships are founded on convenience, entertainment, and preference.

- Relationships prior to women's liberation and advancements in technology were founded on survival.

It does not matter that a girl grew up in a married household, today's relationships are founded on completely different variables than that of her parents.

And like I mentioned in the above post, if the girl in question was SO QUALITY, she would already be married, just like her mother and grandmother were already married by the time they turned 21. There's no way she would be 25 - 35 and still on the market, or on Match.com with some "profile" up talking about she's a quality woman looking for a husband. That's B.S. lol. She's no quality anything. She is looking to "check off a box" of things to do in life and one of them is to dress up as a "dream princess" for a day, which again, is a relationship founded on convenience, entertainment, and preference.........not survival.

No one can answer why the CONTRACT is necessary when you can have the RELATIONSHIP without it.

I think between the two of us, we have asked these people a good 10 times to tell us why the CONTRACT is necessary and not one of them can come up with jack sh*t lol.

 

[Tenacity]

No one can answer why the CONTRACT is necessary when you can have the RELATIONSHIP without it.

I think between the two of us, we have asked these people a good 10 times to tell us why the CONTRACT is necessary and not one of them can come up with jack sh*t lol.

Lol, because there's no answer because the contract is not required if the woman truly loves THEM as a person, rather than the concept of marriage. I fully understand there are "chicks" out there who are 25 - 35 that will date you, be in a short term relationship with you, but if you don't marry them within a certain period of time they jet.

In @guru1000 's mind he believes this woman is of EXTREME QUALITY. In my mind, she's just the typical chick of today's market trying to display an "image" like she's this super, duper, quality chick......to FOOL some dude into playing into her "dream concept" of a marriage.

Dude I know women personally, who came from married households, who have been fvcking, svcking, drinking, and partying from 18 to 26.......then by the time they turn 27, all of a sudden this bytch turns into a CATHOLIC NUN, quotes nothing but bible scriptures, and talks about how she is looking for a "Man Of God" to commit to and marry just like (quote, unquote) her parents were married.

 

[BeTheChange]

When you say: "The top calibre of woman, particularly from traditional families, won't expect anything less."

What you are REALLY saying is: "I have to get married because SHE says so. Even if it might be bad for me".

LOL. Weak.



There is NO such thing as "stable".

She posted the most blue pill statement I've seen in a while and you saps are actually falling for this lol.

How is this a problem exactly?

I have to get married if I want access to a level of social, financial and economic power that would be otherwise difficult, if not impossible to achieve alone? Acceptable.

If she enhances my life she is worthy of that commitment. Ironically you guys seem to be clinging on to this Disney fantasy of love. I'm under no illusion. We may enjoy each other's company and have a mutual attraction towards each other but if we aren't satisfying each other needs then it won't work.

I'm happy to trade my desire for a socially and financially advantageous matchup with a traditional, attractive, supportive partner for her desire to be married. Sounds like a reasonable trade off to me. Risks and all.

 

[Tenacity]

How is this a problem exactly?

I have to get married if I want access to a level of social, financial and economic power that would be otherwise difficult, if not impossible to achieve alone? Acceptable.

If she enhances my life she is worthy of that commitment. Ironically you guys seem to be clinging on to this Disney fantasy of love. I'm under no illusion. We may enjoy each other's company and have a mutual attraction towards each other but if we aren't satisfying each other needs then it won't work.

I'm happy to trade my desire for a socially and financially advantageous matchup with a traditional, attractive, supportive partner for her desire to be married. Sounds like a reasonable trade off to me. Risks and all.

So BeTheChange says he will entertain the cartoon marriage contract (knowing it's cartoonish) as long as the chick can increase his net worth and standard of living in some way? Hmmmm....okay. I guess if BeTheChange is making $100k a year and this chick is like @BeExcellent with a million dollar net worth, I guess I personally can see the reason for doing such an arrangement based on the financial improvement.

But this structure is NOT what I would align the traditional definition of Marriage with. This structure is honestly, a financial transaction, pure and simple. Very similar to choosing the right "equity investor" to partner with in the creation of a company lol.

 

[exhausted]

Marriage with a life long partner you can depend on and have a blessed life with while growing a family sounds fantastic.

Except the fact those days are gone, girls are no longer fulfilled by the same idea, they live off attention and beta orbiters while being lazy princesses.