Are all Don Juans atheists?

[RangerMIke]

or because we're all drawing straws here, atheism is refusing to draw a straw. there may or may not be a prize for the longest straw (or you might get a plot twist reveal that the prize actually goes to the shortest straw instead), but if you don't draw your odds are 0% as opposed to the non zero percent chance of winning if you draw a straw

Well I did not say I was an atheist... I am agnostic... meaning I do not know. Which IMO is the only logical position to take when it comes to divine faith. Your argument I have heard before from religious people... belief is a way to hedge bets. If you believe in God and he doesn't exist you will die then nothing.... If you do not believe in God and there is no God... so what at you moment of death you get to know you are right... but your fate is no different than a believer... non-existence. The only way to win is to believe.... It's playing the lottery.

Well my answer to this is that believers are making a lot of assumptions... first that God has provided an after-life.... second that access to this after-life is conditioned on faith... and following dogma. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then it can make anyone believe whatever it wants. So if I don't have 'faith'... then it is apparently God's will that I be like this. Hard to believe 'God' would punish people for following it's will. The only logical assumption is to question the existence of God and that faith does't really matter because that is what God wants... so if there is a God and there is heaven... then everyone goes.

 

[Red Legg]

So if I don't have 'faith'... then it is apparently God's will that I be like this.

Yes....(Romans 9:20) the potter can do with the clay whatever he wishes.(Romans 9:21) (Romans 9:22)

 

[wifehunter]

Yes....(Romans 9:20) the potter can do with the clay whatever he wishes.(Romans 9:21) (Romans 9:22)

Sovereignty and providence, at work.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Well I did not say I was an atheist... I am agnostic... meaning I do not know. Which IMO is the only logical position to take when it comes to divine faith. Your argument I have heard before from religious people... belief is a way to hedge bets. If you believe in God and he doesn't exist you will die then nothing.... If you do not believe in God and there is no God... so what at you moment of death you get to know you are right... but your fate is no different than a believer... non-existence. The only way to win is to believe.... It's playing the lottery.

Well my answer to this is that believers are making a lot of assumptions... first that God has provided an after-life.... second that access to this after-life is conditioned on faith... and following dogma. If God is all powerful and all knowing, then it can make anyone believe whatever it wants. So if I don't have 'faith'... then it is apparently God's will that I be like this. Hard to believe 'God' would punish people for following it's will. The only logical assumption is to question the existence of God and that faith does't really matter because that is what God wants... so if there is a God and there is heaven... then everyone goes.

Pascal's wager strikes me like a religion of egoism.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

So if I don't have 'faith'... then it is apparently God's will that I be like this. Hard to believe 'God' would punish people for following it's will. The only logical assumption is to question the existence of God and that faith does't really matter because that is what God wants... so if there is a God and there is heaven... then everyone goes.

This is largely the schismatic difference between the Protestants and the Catholics. There is plenty of room for freedom, virtue, and self-determination in the old faith. When you look at it historically, Protestantism is the first determinism. Many of the ideological problems we have, such as the split between mind and body, derive from this revolution in theological affairs.

 

[RangerMIke]

This is largely the schismatic difference between the Protestants and the Catholics. There is plenty of room for freedom, virtue, and self-determination in the old faith. When you look at it historically, Protestantism is the first determinism. Many of the ideological problems we have, such as the split between mind and body, derive from this revolution in theological affairs.

The biggest difference between most Protestant religions and the Roman Catholic religion at the time of the schism was the ability to buy indulgences. This is based on the belief that Popes can define what happens in heaven (Matthew 18:18). Protestants do not interpret this passage literally, they do not believe Jesus (aka God on Earth) gave the mantle to Peter the man, thus starting the line of Popes going back to Peter, but rather Jesus built his church on faith, not a man, because Peter knew who he was intuitively. So you are correct.. Protestantism is build on determinism... if you have faith, you are part of Jesus' church, if you don't, then you are not part of the Christian community.

Since God shapes man, it already knows who will have faith before they are born... everyone is following God's will, EVERYONE... no one person (the Pope) has a monopoly on what happens on Earth. If you have faith, then anything you do will be following God's will.

Well.... both philosophies are defense-able, but they are both based on a phrase in the bible that had been passed down in verbal tradition for 250 years, before it was actually written down. Matthew did not write the book of Matthew, it was written by some unknown scholar, based on stories told for centuries. Imagine if you will, that we had no written history of events leading up to the American Revolution... and it was just 'stories' passed down without writing it. That only today we would record what happened? Well we do have a written history, from 1767... and the truth is, American justifications for rebellion were remarkably weak... it was based on a taxation level from the Crown that was FAR from oppressive, and it was ONLY imposed to pay for the cost of defending the colonies. Colonial Americans were only paying for their own defense. NEVER in the history of the USA did Americans actually pay LESS in taxes then under British rule. The real cause of the American Revolution was a political power grab by the founding fathers, desire of Americans to expand into Indian country (barred by the Crown) and fear in the South that the Crown would make slavery illegal.

We know the real reason for the Revolution, because we have a written record... yet the mythology continues to persist. SO why would anyone take as absolute truth anything written after the fact 250 year later?

 

[190cmofcancer]

What do you guys think of afterlife? When I was a kid that didnt understand anything (Less than 7 years old) i cried because I knew I will die someday. then my parents poured into me that idea i will live eternally with god as my soul will go to heaven.

I didnt believe that but regardless - why would one assume afterlife is conscious? In most popular religions (lets say islam and catholic) your soul after death goes to heaven! (or HELL/waiting room/somewhere else). people take this wrong and think they will live second life while (*IF RELIGONS AND AFTERLIFE IS TRUE* ) its not them but their soul who will "live eternally". Assuming religgions are true, and afterlife is true, and souls are true - even if these 3 things are real then you will still not live secondlife as your soul without brain and body wont be conscious - its brain that has our fears, feelings, personality, character, anything is inside brain. once our physical body is discarded then our brain will stop functioning so our "souls" will be feeling-less. they will not exist. if they will exist, we will not feel it. we wont even know if we are in hell or heaven (or whatever).

What are your thoughts on it? Whats the deal with second life in heaven if from logical view our body will be DEAD and our soul (if exists), will be unnoticeable, even for us, because we wont see anything, or feel, without our body, and brain.

 

[Asasione]

Tried searching for God, and asking for help. It came after I stood up and gave my finger to the world and then my life changed. If I'm to be completely honest though, I don't think it was God that did that. Praying for 2 years straight several times a day every single day before anything happened. I think it was because it was on my mind so much that I changed, not because of 'God' or any of that. That's tr honest truth. I'm somewhere between deist and agnostic.

This is the common trend I see for quite a number of atheists. They ask for help during a time of need and when they don't get it, it must be cause God doesn't exist. Not personally religious but I found your post silly based purely on your reasons for deciding against religion. Had you gotten what you wanted would you still be praying incessantly and rejoicing? So your faith is purely about personal gain (whether for yourself or someone you care about)? I see flaws in your reasons for running away from your beliefs

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

This is the common trend I see for quite a number of atheists. They ask for help during a time of need and when they don't get it, it must be cause God doesn't exist. Not personally religious but I found your post silly based purely on your reasons for deciding against religion. Had you gotten what you wanted would you still be praying incessantly and rejoicing? So your faith is purely about personal gain (whether for yourself or someone you care about)? I see flaws in your reasons for running away from your beliefs

This is a great point. But here is the thing about chance: someone else could ask, and receive. Yet someone else asks for the same thing, and doesn't.

The thing that bothers me is that if you do receive, then 'Oh it MUST be from God! Be thankful to him' but if you don't get what you want, then 'God just said no, maybe you can keep trying to ask'. It's just using 'God' as an excuse to find why things happen from seemingly chance. And the thing is, we all know that we have to keep our self-respect in regards to women, and people in general in all social interactions. Why not God as well? A super strong and tough guy crying on his hands and knees to thin air over something he wants or needs hoping that maybe he'll receive. Well he just lost all pride and dignity. All self-respect. Why should we have to beg for what we want and need all for someone to just say 'no' to us? Not only that, but God is supposed to be omnipotent; all-seeing and all-knowing. He is supposed to be able to do ANYTHING, with extreme ease. That means, that he should know when we are burning inside for something we desire. He should know what it is we want and how badly we want and need it without us having to verbalized or consciously think about it. Still, if something small happens, I verbalize my thankfulness to 'God' in the hopes that He is out there. But that doesn't mean I don't seriously yearn for something greater. It doesn't erase the strife that's been caused. It doesn't stop me from wanting harmless so-called 'sinful pleasures'. These are issues that I have. I could go on and on about this forever. I want to know why. But I also heard that 'God' said you aren't supposed to ask why. Hmmm, I wonder why?

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The ideal of real religion is bring the self/ I / ego into relation with God. This is a moderation of the self; self is not obliterated, nor is it deified, but comes to move in harmony with something greater than itself. This touches on all aspects of our existence, which was, in my opinion, sadly lost in the Reformation. It takes a vast act of the imagination to conceive of religion today. Our minds are too cluttered with so-called knowledge.

 

[devilkingx2]

The thing that bothers me is that if you do receive, then 'Oh it MUST be from God! Be thankful to him' but if you don't get what you want, then 'God just said no, maybe you can keep trying to ask'. It's just using 'God' as an excuse to find why things happen from seemingly chance. And the thing is, we all know that we have to keep our self-respect in regards to women, and people in general in all social interactions. Why not God as well? A super strong and tough guy crying on his hands and knees to thin air over something he wants or needs hoping that maybe he'll receive. Well he just lost all pride and dignity. All self-respect. Why should we have to beg for what we want and need all for someone to just say 'no' to us? Not only that, but God is supposed to be omnipotent; all-seeing and all-knowing. He is supposed to be able to do ANYTHING, with extreme ease. That means, that he should know when we are burning inside for something we desire. He should know what it is we want and how badly we want and need it without us having to verbalized or consciously think about it. Still, if something small happens, I verbalize my thankfulness to 'God' in the hopes that He is out there. But that doesn't mean I don't seriously yearn for something greater. It doesn't erase the strife that's been caused. It doesn't stop me from wanting harmless so-called 'sinful pleasures'. These are issues that I have. I could go on and on about this forever. I want to know why. But I also heard that 'God' said you aren't supposed to ask why. Hmmm, I wonder why?

personally, I don't think that every good or bad thing that happens is supernatural, just the unreasonable things.

if you find $100 on the floor at a time when you're in desperate need of money, that's god. if you find a $5 bill one day when you have $10,000 in the bank, that's just a coincidence.

you don't necessarily need to pray for what you need, just what you want, if you want god to grant the non-necessities you have to ask, otherwise wait on his leisure or do it yourself, lots of the things that most people pray for they would've gotten either way, maybe asking just got it to them a little faster.

a huge part of the beliefs is that god gave us all free will, so it definitely means something if you choose to pray (And there's this one part of the bible that sort of implies that his power may come directly from faith http://biblehub.com/mark/6-5.htm )

 

[Red Legg]

What do you guys think of afterlife? When I was a kid that didnt understand anything (Less than 7 years old) i cried because I knew I will die someday. then my parents poured into me that idea i will live eternally with god as my soul will go to heaven.

I didnt believe that but regardless - why would one assume afterlife is conscious? In most popular religions (lets say islam and catholic) your soul after death goes to heaven! (or HELL/waiting room/somewhere else). people take this wrong and think they will live second life while (*IF RELIGONS AND AFTERLIFE IS TRUE* ) its not them but their soul who will "live eternally". Assuming religgions are true, and afterlife is true, and souls are true - even if these 3 things are real then you will still not live secondlife as your soul without brain and body wont be conscious - its brain that has our fears, feelings, personality, character, anything is inside brain. once our physical body is discarded then our brain will stop functioning so our "souls" will be feeling-less. they will not exist. if they will exist, we will not feel it. we wont even know if we are in hell or heaven (or whatever).

What are your thoughts on it? Whats the deal with second life in heaven if from logical view our body will be DEAD and our soul (if exists), will be unnoticeable, even for us, because we wont see anything, or feel, without our body, and brain.

You either boil like a potato in the lake of fire for all eternity or go to heaven...all are equally sinful (including me)and deserve the lake of fire in hell but God chose some (few) to be saved out of his goodness and mercy.That is the afterlife.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The Bible is full of wisdom about the male-female dynamic, whether you believe in it or not. Sampson & Delilah, David and Bathsheba, Solomon and his thousands of wives...the Song of Solomon is like romance novel softcore porn.

There's also a steady stream of gender symbolism and allusions. In early Genesis, when most people are still worshiping little stone carvings as their gods, at one point the "gods" get hidden in a trunk and sat upon by a menstruating woman, which is the ultimate in insults and demonstrates they have no power. Later on, men who are especially bad guys sometimes meet their death at the hands of a woman, which was considered the least honorable way to die.

 

[Red Legg]

The Bible is full of wisdom about the male-female dynamic, whether you believe in it or not. Sampson & Delilah, David and Bathsheba, Solomon and his thousands of wives...the Song of Solomon is like romance novel softcore porn.

There's also a steady stream of gender symbolism and allusions. In early Genesis, when most people are still worshiping little stone carvings as their gods, at one point the "gods" get hidden in a trunk and sat upon by a menstruating woman, which is the ultimate in insults and demonstrates they have no power. Later on, men who are especially bad guys sometimes meet their death at the hands of a woman, which was considered the least honorable way to die.

Let's just change the name for BPD's to "Delilah's" everyone always whines how dating has gone "downhill" and so have women NO it hasn't it.... has always been this way.

 

[ManlyMichael]

Are all DJ's Atheists ? of course not....I believe in an all powerful sovereign God who does NOT love everyone ( Romans 9:13) God hated Esau BEFORE he was even born,before he had done anything good or bad.God simply chooses who he wants to be with him for all eternity Ephesians (1:4).You are either chosen as a vessel of mercy or wrath it's as simple as that.In other words you have NO free will where salvation is concerned.

Your misunderstanding that "hated Esau" verse

Esau was out to get vengeance and was not thankful for his blessings, and God hates when people fight each other over material things, like Esau, and he hates when people cry and complain instead of thank him for the other 99% of life they been blessed

Every one has free will, the decisions make you into a vessel of wrath or one of mercy, if you choose wrath on others you are what you are, if you choose mercy and forgiveness you are what you are.

Yes being a victim of one itus is a result of following God, but it's voluntary. Control is better than wild and random, and developing a girl is better than hunting lady after lady, it's more work and more reward, step up to the challenge when you are ready to be a true man

 

[SoSuave666]

View attachment 915 They should be...

He is obviously able but not willing.

Might you consider instead of evil, using good in its place? without one you can not have the other. The condition of this planet (life, if we are to get into it) is not to inform you of the afterlife, but to prepare you for it. Good, bad, righteous, evil. All of it. Humans forge their own way.

 

[Red Legg]

Your misunderstanding that "hated Esau" verse

Esau was out to get vengeance and was not thankful for his blessings, and God hates when people fight each other over material things, like Esau, and he hates when people cry and complain instead of thank him for the other 99% of life they been blessed

Every one has free will, the decisions make you into a vessel of wrath or one of mercy, if you choose wrath on others you are what you are, if you choose mercy and forgiveness you are what you are.

Yes being a victim of one itus is a result of following God, but it's voluntary. Control is better than wild and random, and developing a girl is better than hunting lady after lady, it's more work and more reward, step up to the challenge when you are ready to be a true man

Do you even Romans 9??? I don't think so....