Advice Please

[Fruitbat]

I will take the consensus.

- Met girl online, very good rapport and spent 4 weekend fvcking.
- Asked her to go exclusive because got a bit jelous as she is using OLD
- She said no, too soon, didn't want to discuss. She confirmed she is "chatting" to others online but not fvcking, but she said I should see others when I am not seeing her ("I can't stop you because I can't offer you exclusivity) She said 4 weeks is too soon.
- She said she had 2 weekends she couldn't see me (seeing friends) which seemed pretty genuine and she was v keen on seeing me lots "to make up for it"

I think it's obvious some, if not both weekends are to meet the other guys. I have been back burnered for a bit. My keeness hasn't helped and also she was kind of called out, and she couldn't commit.

She is still keen via text. **** testing too.

Option 1 - keep talking to her via text as if nothing happened
Option 2 - Go ghost completely and ignore her.
Option 3 - Call her out, dump her. Something like "you obviously are just enjoying the ride and keeping me around if it doesn't work out. I am not into that so I am moving on, sorry, bye"

I lost A LOT of frame when she said "no". I was a bit weak and hurt.

I want to send option 3 - I want her gone if she is doing this. However, there is a chance that she is actually just thinking it is actually too soon, but she sure as hell is dating others.

I know it's needy from me, but I don't want to be sat here hoping while she sees other guys. We have slept together and spent a lot of time together. It's 4 weekends, not 4 2 hour dates.

I feel like option 3 is the ultimate test. I do like her, and I want to win her, but I will not be strung along. However, I fear I will lose a really suitable girl by being too "heavy"

Advice please! A woman who loves my ass says she is def keeping me around because she likes the attention but she is still looking, she kind of confirmed that.

However, I get very involved quickly so to others, asking for excl after only a month is just too soon. She might want a few dates so she can say she had options and chose me.

Perhaps just "call me when you want to meet" is the appropriate response to any further text?

Sorry for the read but I really do need help here.

 

[Red Legg]

- Asked her to go exclusive because got a bit jelous as she is using OLD

After 4 weekends? she knows your a sap now...move along..

 

[Fruitbat]

After 4 weekends? she knows your a sap now...move along..

Really? Seemed fine to me. Learning.

 

[QuadDeuces]

Option 4
Start dating new women and reduce the attention you give her, shorter texts and take a while to respond.
When she sees she has competition she comes back in no time, women need a challenge.

 

[Fruitbat]

Option 4
Start dating new women and reduce the attention you give her, shorter texts and take a while to respond.

I am dating others anyway. Just none around due to holidays.

 

[Red Legg]

Really? Seemed fine to me. Learning.

As a general rule of thumb in my LTR's I do not ask to be "exclusive" you always let the woman you are with ask that,they will drop little hints to let you know.Even then I would say NO if it was under 3 months.In the LTR I am in now (I am an LTR guy) she asked me at 2.5 months and I said OK,well she was not ready,and almost cost the relationship.We have seen each other 32 weekends straight.

 

[Fruitbat]

As a general rule of thumb in my LTR's I do not ask to be "exclusive" you always let the woman you are with ask that,they will drop little hints to let you know.Even then I would say NO if it was under 3 months.In the LTR I am in now (I am an LTR guy) she asked me at 2.5 months and I said OK,well she was not ready,and almost cost the relationship.We have seen each other 32 weekends straight.

but I don't sit comforable with the idea of being judged and having other men meeting the woman I am investing time it.

How long until another guy turns up? I am trying not to get 3 months in and have to start over. Why is it always on their fvcking terms?

Key is, I always find they build it with you but actually they are holding back and judging. This happens over and over, I am fed up with having time wasted. I am trying to find genuinely interested women and we have immense rapport. HAD. I find it an insult after hours of talking, getting to know someone, for them to be like - meh, I am seeing how it goes with others. So clinical.

I have lost this battle, I think key is go almost ghost. concentrate on getting this mindet right with others, but she was veryspecial to me.

 

[ubercat]

Don't take it too personally mate from what I've seen your fishing in a toxic pond. I ve dated half a dozen UK girls and it never went far. They were fine opening their legs but seemed to always keep their options open.

 

[BeExcellent]

If you want her you need to understand her value and your value out there in dating land.

Who has higher value?

If you have higher value she will naturally gravitate towards you and you will naturally seek to continue playing the the field. She will have to wrangle you a bit to tie you down.

She will wonder about you & in your absence miss you; wonder what you are doing. Give her the gift of missing you a bit. Let her mind wander. She's doing that isn't she? See how well it works?

I take away from the posts you have made about her that either her value is intrinsically higher than yours (e.g. she has more acceptable options to choose from than you do) OR you unwittingly knocked your value down through supplication, asking for exclusivity too soon, etc. Either way you are presently dealing with the same result, which is she is keeping her options open for now.

Women are selective in a process oriented way. We seek out the BEST option from those that are available. We are extremely pragmatic that way. Women look at the whole and size men up as a whole based upon our own individual criteria. If emotionally healthy we are patient and observant. We know we can't get to know your character in a whirlwind except under extraordinary circumstances. So time is required. If a man can't handle the process, how can we trust he can handle life?

Neediness & desperation signal weakness. Nonchalance signals strength. What kind of signals are you sending?

Please bear in mind @Fruitbat that my intent is not to bust your chops. I want you to really look at your own behavior.

You didn't believe me in another thread but I date high status men exclusively. I always have. I myself have high value but I understand I need/want a man with HIGHER value than my own. Otherwise I WILL lose interest. If a woman has higher value than you, you will be dumped or passed over eventually.

Sometimes you guys say gee you women expect Brad Pitt! Not exactly. Hell even Brad Pitt is getting dumped by Angelina Jolie, who arguably has higher value than he does. Just like Billy Bob before him.

So really examine the value question. If you suspect that she perceives her value to be higher than yours you have two options.

1. You must raise your value (through Option 4 combined with self focus & self improvement). You must become the best available option in her mind.

2. Forget about her entirely or get placed into orbiter hell. This is the plaything bin women put men into so they won't get bored or lonely when they have nothing better to do. You want to stay OUT of this bin.

What can you do to raise your value & become her best option? Think on that.

 

[Çharismo]

Agreeing with BeExcellent above. ^

Slow your roll playa playa!!! Don't be so eager to jump into a relationship or a commitment so fast. Besides the physicality you don't really know her that well anyway. Allow things to happen but at the same time continue to live your own life, continue to better yourself as a man by staying active in your pursuits, career, social activity, developing skills (very important) and family. Point is to stay busy where you don't develop some sort of an obsession or start to over-think too much. Keep it casual until and unless you feel it is the right time to take the next step. Again there is nothing wrong with making the first move or even asking for a further commitment...hell as men we always have to take the initiative but take your time to evaluate women carefully to make sure both of you are on the same page. The question you need to ask yourself is why is it that you need a commitment so fast? Why are you so eager to lock this woman down? What is it that you are bringing to the table? What do you have to offer? Do you consider yourself a complete person? Do you have any mommy or daddy issues that need to be resolved?

I also sense desperation in what you have communicated as well. So do your best to not get attached so quickly because you exposed your core for what it is. This is supposed to be a fun process and until and unless more time passes try not to take things so seriously...relax and enjoy learning, honing and developing your skills with women. No need to rush into anything. In addition, I wouldn't necessarily say you came across as weak per-say but the way you responded to her would reveal a lot of things about you to her. The best way to respond to someone rejecting you in a situation like that is to stay cool, calm, and collected and to casually shift the subject to something else because not only did you get your answer but insisting and making it a big deal is going to make you look even worse. You put the ball in her court so it's up to her to bring up the subject if she wants. You just need to keep on trucking and keep on chucking --- and most of all ...


Slow and steady wins the race -- Aesop's Fable.

Stay cute!

 

[LJBFB]

BeExcellent is completely right. Its funny how no matter how far we come, we forget the basics. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are gatekeepers of commitment. It was time to sit back and make her work. You wanted more but you got less from your playing the role of the woman. Ive done something similar twice in the past two years in both LTRs by rushing exclusivity. I think it was Rollo who said "You buy a LTR, not build one." IL will fade once exclusive and it is not mans goal to seek this. Detach, DJ bible, fb if you can handle this but I dont think you can.

 

[Fruitbat]

Sound, sound advice. Very depressing in some aspects to see we are literally "status on a stick" and who you are as an individual, your talents, and achievements, and personality mean jack sh1t really. If you are in the position when you really like a girl, and be aware, this is only happening because I actually really like her - NOT because I think she is some awesome catch, miles out of my league. I have dated hotter women.

I really am coming round to the opinion that game is 90% of it. If I played like I didn't want her, she would still be keen and I would have what I want. However, what I REALLY want is a deep, involved relationship where two people love and value each other, and I see women ARE NOT CAPABLE of this. They must be lower in the pecking order, if you express appreciation of them, they move on.

The reason I wanted to lock her down is I am SICK AND TIRED of dating and searching to find someone suitible. We clicked.

To realise this is now to realise that there is no "connection", no "love" and nothing beyond a competitive battle of wills with other c0ck. So, this girl is now firmly forgotten, I am working on others now, as from what was said above, the game is lost.

The thing which is driving me is I DO NOT WANT TO BE ALONE. I am getting older and I want to move on, I want stability.

This is the hardest game on earth as I need to pretend that I don't give a sh1t about women who I really like on many levels.

What a stupid strategy for women! Some dude with literally nothing going for him can win this game by just perfecting the art of pretending he doesn't care.

Why are so many female topics so aimed at "men treat us like sh1t" - that's how they decide value.

utterly depressing to be in this situatiin - AGAIN! From my perspective, it feels like a loop. Find a girl, build trust and rapport, get interested, get dumped. I find out all the great times we had, she had me in some fvcking chart with a bunch of other guys, and you get relegated off the chart if you say "you are a top girl and I want us to be an item" This is BULLSHYT!

Honestly, 3 years ago I said fvck it, I am fed up with this fvcking stupid system and I am not sure if I can date and meet women and keep up this "Battle" for a lifetime with one. Never saying how you feel, never getting that love you need. From now on, women are literally a warm hole *** recepticle because that's explicitly what they have asked me for.

I am hitting the weights right now, I have deleted her number. I will NOT orbit, if she comes back, she will get fvck all of anything, HOW SHE HAS PLACED ME IS HOW SHE IS NOW PLACED. The best she will get off me now is a lay on a night when I am bored, no more conversation, no more text discussions, no more decent treatment, no nothing.

My problem is, I thought I wanted a proper girlfriend, but I found this is counter productive. I am literally going to lie, cheat and manipulate my way to pvssy and I will try to kill any aspect of decency - whatever remains, because it's my relentless search for....shock, horror, a nice, healthy,stable relationship which is messing up matters.

Issue is, I don't like this unstable "date 8 girls" world because the only way I can survive is with a player mindset.....I am fvkcing mad as hell that I messed this shyt up, with a girl I really liked, a girl of the type I probably won't meet for a while. The hardest thing to know is there are others she is thinking of, not me, guys who don't blow it like me.....despite her sharing a bed and SO MUCH with me, it was all false and just her testing out her options.

FVCK her, fvck women and from now on, they are only good for one thing alone.

 

[Fruitbat]

If you want her you need to understand her value and your value out there in dating land.

Who has higher value?

If you have higher value she will naturally gravitate towards you and you will naturally seek to continue playing the the field. She will have to wrangle you a bit to tie you down.

She will wonder about you & in your absence miss you; wonder what you are doing. Give her the gift of missing you a bit. Let her mind wander. She's doing that isn't she? See how well it works?

Iw. take away from the posts you have made about her that either her value is intrinsically higher than yours (e.g. she has more acceptable options to choose from than you do) OR you unwittingly knocked your value down through supplication, asking for exclusivity too soon, etc. Either way you are presently dealing with the same result, which is she is keeping her options open for no

Women are selective in a process oriented way. We seek out the BEST option from those that are available. We are extremely pragmatic that way. Women look at the whole and size men up as a whole based upon our own individual criteria. If emotionally healthy we are patient and observant. We know we can't get to know your character in a whirlwind except under extraordinary circumstances. So time is required. If a man can't handle the process, how can we trust he can handle life?

Neediness & desperation signal weakness. Nonchalance signals strength. What kind of signals are you sending?

Please bear in mind @Fruitbat that my intent is not to bust your chops. I want you to really look at your own behavior.

You didn't believe me in another thread but I date high status men exclusively. I always have. I myself have high value but I understand I need/want a man with HIGHER value than my own. Otherwise I WILL lose interest. If a woman has higher value than you, you will be dumped or passed over eventually.

Sometimes you guys say gee you women expect Brad Pitt! Not exactly. Hell even Brad Pitt is getting dumped by Angelina Jolie, who arguably has higher value than he does. Just like Billy Bob before him.

So really examine the value question. If you suspect that she perceives her value to be higher than yours you have two options.

1. You must raise your value (through Option 4 combined with self focus & self improvement). You must become the best available option in her mind.

2. Forget about her entirely or get placed into orbiter hell. This is the plaything bin women put men into so they won't get bored or lonely when they have nothing better to do. You want to stay OUT of this bin.

What can you do to raise your value & become her best option? Think on that.

This is a value based on internal self esteem, not actual value.

The truth is painful. The truth is the truth though.

I don't think you want Brad Pitt, you just want a dude who doesn't give a shyt about you!

take away from the posts you have made about her that either her value is intrinsically higher than yours (e.g. she has more acceptable options to choose from than you do) OR you unwittingly knocked your value down through supplication, asking for exclusivity too soon, etc. Either way you are presently dealing with the same result, which is she is keeping her options open for no

This is like the stock market. What happened to just falling in love.....probably a bit of both. Was not helped by the fact I told her I was turning down other girls dates because we were going well, and I pushed the issue because I felt "guilty" in seeing others....hell, call me old fashioned but when I am sticking my penis in a woman, yes, I kind of feel a loyalty to her....yet that word is non existant to her and her sisterhood. "Could I get better though?" is what she is thinking.

Women are selective in a process oriented way. We seek out the BEST option from those that are available. We are extremely pragmatic that way. Women look at the whole and size men up as a whole based upon our own individual criteria. If emotionally healthy we are patient and observant. We know we can't get to know your character in a whirlwind except under extraordinary circumstances. So time is required. If a man can't handle the process, how can we trust he can handle life?

I don't like playing that game!! So, the game is, I am one of a team of suitors and we all compete for her vag. She sits back, takes stock and picks. Fvck that. She should know a good thing when she sees it.....she did say something very similar to me about "It takes me a long time to know your character properly". Well, that's a fvcking great deal for me, isn't it? So I waste lots of time only for her to say "after a long evaluation where we built a ton of connection, you now appear to really like me but I am sorry to say one of the other 3 guys I am dating is actually better than you, so please fvck off. You can begin the process with another woman and waste another 3 months in her group of suitors. This is bullshyt for us. I know within about 3 dates if I really like a woman.

I am actually mad as hell to realise that I have been bullshyted. The fact she wanted to spend every waking moment with me actually DID NOT signal interest, it's a fvcking TRAP! A trap so she can weedle out all the worst things about me and then say "actually dude, you are a loser". This game is horribly rough, it's no more than a reality TV show.

Given I now know the above, I cannot go back with her. Period.

Issue is, because I now have her in this oneitus place, all other women I am seeing don't measure up and I just feel depressed dating them. Because I want her, but I did all I could to turn off any feelings she had for me. I have this "I won't find another like that"mindset and this failure will haunt me.....because as soon as I start to feel something again, I know the game is over. So I should maybe date fat ugly women because finding one you like ironically leads to them not liking you.

Mad, mad as hell.

Issue is, I played it the DJ way at the start - I remembered how to do it. Then, feelings took over, I started to fall in love a little bit, and all it took was a hangover day when I was feeling a bit down, a bit low self esteem. At other times, I didn't feel this way, but I acted when I was feeling a bit rough.....all it took to ruin something which could have been great. I know the brush off is coming and I will be sat here again feeling worse.....yet I have no trust in myself that the next girl won't get me trapped in this shyt again.

All I can say is that THIS girl has to be the turning point when I worked out the game.....I was convinced that THIS was different,. THIS was real.....this girls name will forever echo in my mind when this situation arises again. God knows, but as a guy you seem to think if you really like them, you will receive the same back.

There is nothing truer than "men value love, women love value" I will imprint that on my mind, but I lost, sory to say, not the hottest, not the best, but the girl I really felt life would have worked out with, by following my instinct and not my head, and I am super, super pissed off that I fell for it and didn't follow the DJ code. I betad out.

The hardest thing to take is it's not my looks, nor my wallet, nor my life....it was ME, it was the essense of who I am and how I value myself which destroyed it. That is harder to take than "the other girl is prettier". At least men reject often on superficial shyt, women reject you fundamentally on who you are, at your very core, which is why it hurts so much. Pvssy - yes. I guess that's who I am. Fvck!

 

[Fruitbat]

Agreeing with BeExcellent above. ^

Slow your roll playa playa!!! Don't be so eager to jump into a relationship or a commitment so fast. Besides the physicality you don't really know her that well anyway. Allow things to happen but at the same time continue to live your own life, continue to better yourself as a man by staying active in your pursuits, career, social activity, developing skills (very important) and family. Point is to stay busy where you don't develop some sort of an obsession or start to over-think too much. Keep it casual until and unless you feel it is the right time to take the next step. Again there is nothing wrong with making the first move or even asking for a further commitment...hell as men we always have to take the initiative but take your time to evaluate women carefully to make sure both of you are on the same page. The question you need to ask yourself is why is it that you need a commitment so fast? Why are you so eager to lock this woman down? What is it that you are bringing to the table? What do you have to offer? Do you consider yourself a complete person? Do you have any mommy or daddy issues that need to be resolved?

I also sense desperation in what you have communicated as well. So do your best to not get attached so quickly because you exposed your core for what it is. This is supposed to be a fun process and until and unless more time passes try not to take things so seriously...relax and enjoy learning, honing and developing your skills with women. No need to rush into anything. In addition, I wouldn't necessarily say you came across as weak per-say but the way you responded to her would reveal a lot of things about you to her. The best way to respond to someone rejecting you in a situation like that is to stay cool, calm, and collected and to casually shift the subject to something else because not only did you get your answer but insisting and making it a big deal is going to make you look even worse. You put the ball in her court so it's up to her to bring up the subject if she wants. You just need to keep on trucking and keep on chucking --- and most of all ...


Slow and steady wins the race -- Aesop's Fable.

Stay cute!

Very hard, I attach easily. I've also not been dating for 2 years, that doesn't help, she is the first serious one for a while.

I responded in a mildly butthurt way and she definately picked up on that, I didn't get all "WHY NOT?!" but I prob came off a bit hurt and upset.....and then she turned down seeing me this week (another huge error of mine) and said we would talk when we next met, she did NOT want to have that discussion.

This is not fun, dating never has been for me, I lack the self esteem not to assume all the other dudes are better...and these experiences just fuel that even more. I also have a weird thing where I tell broads some of the worst things about me early on....almost as if I want to get them out of the way, I am too honest and also drink to excess with them.

Now, in the cold light of day, I am not sure why I change so much in these scenarios. My brain seems to shift and I think about the one I like non stop. I don't feel like I can trust it. I deal with shyt tests, dominance ones, no issue. The ones I don't deal with are the possesiveness/value ones - not seeing her, coping with her seeing others. These are the ones I fail at. It just feels natural to want to be exclusive with a woman I am fvcking, it seems part of nature to not allow other sperm there!

I am realising that the mindset has to be "I am going it alone in life - I do not need a woman" However, I do. I want a family, that's part of my goals, and where everything breaks down for me.

Massive wall of text from me on this thread but it helps me crystalise thoughts and is my own form of therapy!!

 

[BeExcellent]

I'm posting in this thread because I'm trying to help you.

This is a value based on internal self esteem, not actual value.

Incorrect. This is value in the sexual marketplace. The marketplace cannot determine intrinsic self esteem value. The market is brutally efficient, much like the financial markets. But the SMV fuctions on a surface level to a large degree. It can't see how great or how horrid a person actually is.

I don't think you want Brad Pitt, you just want a dude who doesn't give a shyt about you!

Incorrect again. I want a man who loves me deeply but has the strength and ability to leave me. Why? Because this is the natural mechanism to keep a woman in line while at the same time a constant reminder that the man CHOOSES to be with her. This is the type of man top women desire.

You think I want men who don't care about me? Are you kidding? I've been dumped all of twice. Ever. My ex husband wants me back, others who I've dated long term (and eventually left) want me back, Usually I leave the relationships because the man doesn't measure up in a substantial way over time. Sorry. Would you stay with a woman who didn't meet your standards? I hope not. It takes time to find out who someone is. It takes time to vet people properly. Even when you vet properly it can still be a crap shoot. But you have to move on at the point when you realize they don't meet your standards.

At times in my life I have had long term lovers who were lovely people and who cared deeply about me and I about them. But because of life circumstances on my end or on his end things were not going to turn into some fairy tale. Those relationships have value also. One runs an extremely successful high end venue in Las Vegas (but I've known him years before he got into that - he still jokes about we should just go on and get married one of these days - and he's only half kidding), One is a successful cosmetic dentist in New York, and the one since I divorced is a Hollywood man in LA. All are wildly successful, handsome, smooth, sexy.

I'm trying to explain this sh!t to you not to show off (although perhaps you think I am) but rather because I KNOW the market. I know what the dynamics are and I master the game with the type of men many here aspire to be. I date top flight men and I always have. I *MIGHT* know what I'm talking about.

Two weeks ago I had a date with the GM of an exclusive 5 star resort. He's Italian, handsome, fit, successful and driven, but he had a frenetic essence to his personality that was at once overly intense and exhausting. He was somewhat approval seeking & his attempts at kino unnatural. Disappointing as I typically like Italian men. I'll never see him again. Couldn't wait to get home. I'm sure he'll be great for someone else, I wasn't interested in him after spending time with him. That's dating. That's the process.

In April I met a businessman and former pro athlete who has his flaws but who I like a great deal. Handsome, successful, etc. I've seen him a number of times and things are progressing. He has my interest but there are some things I am watching to see how they shake out in time. I hope it goes somewhere if he is the right kind of man. He likes me quite a lot too. I'm still evaluating his character before I get more involved.

This process is healthy. Especially if you want a family some day!

I don't like playing that game!! So, the game is, I am one of a team of suitors and we all compete for her vag. She sits back, takes stock and picks. Fvck that. She should know a good thing when she sees it.....she did say something very similar to me about "It takes me a long time to know your character properly". Well, that's a fvcking great deal for me, isn't it? So I waste lots of time only for her to say "after a long evaluation where we built a ton of connection, you now appear to really like me but I am sorry to say one of the other 3 guys I am dating is actually better than you, so please fvck off. You can begin the process with another woman and waste another 3 months in her group of suitors. This is bullshyt for us. I know within about 3 dates if I really like a woman.

I am actually mad as hell to realise that I have been bullshyted. The fact she wanted to spend every waking moment with me actually DID NOT signal interest, it's a fvcking TRAP! A trap so she can weedle out all the worst things about me and then say "actually dude, you are a loser". This game is horribly rough, it's no more than a reality TV show.

You want a wife and family someday? This is the process. Embrace the process. Aren't you going to try and find the best "total package" you can? SO WILL SHE. Don't get bitter, GET BETTER. Swallow the God dam red pill and understand the landscape.

You only are looking for ONE woman. The other 3 billion on the planet are immaterial. All you need is one woman for a successful relationship but you are going to have to take extremely honest stock of yourself because you are not the only man running around looking for a woman worth keeping around for a family, so the girls worth having as a LTR, wife or mother of your children have LOTS of choices because LOTS of men recognize their value among the sea of women.

Nobody has bull shyted you. Not at all. You have brainwashed yourself. Quit hanging onto these Disney fantasies and see reality for Pete's sake.

Reading your posts, you think she is better than you. Know how I know? Look at the way your own posts berate yourself. You've disqualified yourself and blamed her when YOU sir are the problem.

You do not think you are good enough to win out, so you've said, Fine. I quit. The purpose of my original post was actually to help you see the reality of the landscape because I actually think things are perfectly salvagable if you manage your frame better. She does like you, you just aren't standing out, yet.

And this "Poor Me" Boo whoo women are evil attitude is self defeating. Your attitude is your problem. It's negative. You think I want men who don't value me? I discard men I didn't think would be a good fit for me, some of whom are elite men. I discard quickly because I don't lead people on. And elite men move along because they also have tons of choices. That's how it should be.

You can be mad at me all you want. I'm simply laying the truth out there for you to see. You like this girl? Put your frame back together and get over your pity party. Ask her out. Be the man you are capable of being. Be the man she chooses.

Girls who are worthwhile don't grow on trees. Put your big boy pants on and get over yourself and get back in the ring. No more whining. So what now you are going to go dump a girl who you know and who you like because some invisible woman on the other end of a computer said something that upset you?

How irrational is that?

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I don't know. You could go either way. If you rush the sex at the start, this may only help sabotage a potential relationship for obvious reasons.

Or you could go full out player mode, and not give a rats.

But seems to me, you wanted the first scenario of a relationship.

If this is so, could the solution be as simple as allowing some time to get to know each other before going sexual??

 

[resilient]

Take deep breaths, @Fruitbat.

It's good to purge the emotions rather than hold them in. I was where you were a few months ago and nearly came completely unglued in all aspects of life. I had friends and family hold me up when I lost a main plate until I found the courage in myself to forge ahead.

My advice is to take a step back from dating in this moment. You don't have to dart for the exit sign and put on the monk mode robe, yet start to practice mindfulness.

Go get a massage.

Go hike a summit and breath in the air. Take in all the sights. What will the wind sound like? How will the tree branches move? What color are they? Listen to the silence. I know you're not religious, so just find a way to practice gratitude here for the life that you've been given.

Learn how to slow things down and let go. We hold onto things [people] so tight they sense this and flee. They flee less when they feel they're on equal ground with you in three areas: emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

I'm sure if you really want a family someday, you'll have it. For now, there's work to be done on inner game. The most will be in patience and in mastering impulses and cultivating fortitude. I'm a big fan of stoicism for developing a strong inner mindset. I've made a few philosopher threads on Mature Man forum if you want to look them up. Everyone has their challenges, studying distinguished men in history helps us to embody as men the mindset that women look up to.

Continue journaling, yet don't be too hard on yourself man. We've all been kicked in the gonads chasing our favorite plate to let it all crash and burn.

Mindfulness, gratitude, meditation/deep breathing, exercise, eating and sleeping well can get you all back on track and thriving again.

 

[BeExcellent]

Take deep breaths, @Fruitbat.

It's good to purge the emotions rather than hold them in. I was where you were a few months ago and nearly came completely unglued in all aspects of life. I had friends and family hold me up when I lost a main plate until I found the courage in myself to forge ahead.

My advice is to take a step back from dating in this moment. You don't have to dart for the exit sign and put on the monk mode robe, yet start to practice mindfulness.

Go get a massage.

Go hike a summit and breath in the air. Take in all the sights. What will the wind sound like? How will the tree branches move? What color are they? Listen to the silence. I know you're not religious, so just find a way to practice gratitude here for the life that you've been given.

Learn how to slow things down and let go. We hold onto things [people] so tight they sense this and flee. They flee less when they feel they're on equal ground with you in three areas: emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

I'm sure if you really want a family someday, you'll have it. For now, there's work to be done on inner game. The most will be in patience and in mastering impulses and cultivating fortitude. I'm a big fan of stoicism for developing a strong inner mindset. I've made a few philosopher threads on Mature Man forum if you want to look them up. Everyone has their challenges, studying distinguished men in history helps to embody the mindset that women look up to.

Continue journaling, yet don't be too hard on yourself man. We've all been kicked in the gonads chasing our favorite plate to let it all crash and burn.

Mindfulness, gratitude, meditation/deep breathing, exercise, eating and sleeping well can get you all back on track and thriving again.

The above is really fantastic advice. Perhaps my message is too tough love. I want to see @Fruitbat succeed in this. I trust that he will.

 

[Fruitbat]

I'm posting in this thread because I'm trying to help you.



Incorrect. This is value in the sexual marketplace. The marketplace cannot determine intrinsic self esteem value. The market is brutally efficient, much like the financial markets. But the SMV fuctions on a surface level to a large degree. It can't see how great or how horrid a person actually is.



Incorrect again. I want a man who loves me deeply but has the strength and ability to leave me. Why? Because this is the natural mechanism to keep a woman in line while at the same time a constant reminder that the man CHOOSES to be with her. This is the type of man top women desire.

You think I want men who don't care about me? Are you kidding? I've been dumped all of twice. Ever. My ex husband wants me back, others who I've dated long term (and eventually left) want me back, Usually I leave the relationships because the man doesn't measure up in a substantial way over time. Sorry. Would you stay with a woman who didn't meet your standards? I hope not. It takes time to find out who someone is. It takes time to vet people properly. Even when you vet properly it can still be a crap shoot. But you have to move on at the point when you realize they don't meet your standards.

At times in my life I have had long term lovers who were lovely people and who cared deeply about me and I about them. But because of life circumstances on my end or on his end things were not going to turn into some fairy tale. Those relationships have value also. One runs an extremely successful high end venue in Las Vegas (but I've known him years before he got into that - he still jokes about we should just go on and get married one of these days - and he's only half kidding), One is a successful cosmetic dentist in New York, and the one since I divorced is a Hollywood man in LA. All are wildly successful, handsome, smooth, sexy.

I'm trying to explain this sh!t to you not to show off (although perhaps you think I am) but rather because I KNOW the market. I know what the dynamics are and I master the game with the type of men many here aspire to be. I date top flight men and I always have. I *MIGHT* know what I'm talking about.

Two weeks ago I had a date with the GM of an exclusive 5 star resort. He's Italian, handsome, fit, successful and driven, but he had a frenetic essence to his personality that was at once overly intense and exhausting. He was somewhat approval seeking & his attempts at kino unnatural. Disappointing as I typically like Italian men. I'll never see him again. Couldn't wait to get home. I'm sure he'll be great for someone else, I wasn't interested in him after spending time with him. That's dating. That's the process.

In April I met a businessman and former pro athlete who has his flaws but who I like a great deal. Handsome, successful, etc. I've seen him a number of times and things are progressing. He has my interest but there are some things I am watching to see how they shake out in time. I hope it goes somewhere if he is the right kind of man. He likes me quite a lot too. I'm still evaluating his character before I get more involved.

This process is healthy. Especially if you want a family some day!



You want a wife and family someday? This is the process. Embrace the process. Aren't you going to try and find the best "total package" you can? SO WILL SHE. Don't get bitter, GET BETTER. Swallow the God dam red pill and understand the landscape.

You only are looking for ONE woman. The other 3 billion on the planet are immaterial. All you need is one woman for a successful relationship but you are going to have to take extremely honest stock of yourself because you are not the only man running around looking for a woman worth keeping around for a family, so the girls worth having as a LTR, wife or mother of your children have LOTS of choices because LOTS of men recognize their value among the sea of women.

Nobody has bull shyted you. Not at all. You have brainwashed yourself. Quit hanging onto these Disney fantasies and see reality for Pete's sake.

Reading your posts, you think she is better than you. Know how I know? Look at the way your own posts berate yourself. You've disqualified yourself and blamed her when YOU sir are the problem.

You do not think you are good enough to win out, so you've said, Fine. I quit. The purpose of my original post was actually to help you see the reality of the landscape because I actually think things are perfectly salvagable if you manage your frame better. She does like you, you just aren't standing out, yet.

And this "Poor Me" Boo whoo women are evil attitude is self defeating. Your attitude is your problem. It's negative. You think I want men who don't value me? I discard men I didn't think would be a good fit for me, some of whom are elite men. I discard quickly because I don't lead people on. And elite men move along because they also have tons of choices. That's how it should be.

You can be mad at me all you want. I'm simply laying the truth out there for you to see. You like this girl? Put your frame back together and get over your pity party. Ask her out. Be the man you are capable of being. Be the man she chooses.

Girls who are worthwhile don't grow on trees. Put your big boy pants on and get over yourself and get back in the ring. No more whining. So what now you are going to go dump a girl who you know and who you like because some invisible woman on the other end of a computer said something that upset you?

How irrational is that?

I have a fantastic income. I am bright as fvck and I can converse better than most men I know. I have a huge amount of knowledge on pretty mucheverything.

All I hear is "elite athelete"......"model" all these fvcking status tags make me not want to play. Do you know how riddiculously narcissistic you make women sound? Why not put us on a fvking top trumps card?

I'm in a bad place to be fair, I don't know how high value one needs to be, I earn more than most of my friends, I am taller. I am a bit overweight, this needs to change. You aren't the best one to give examples as you are clearly a high value woman, a woman I could never get in reality, because the men you describe are leagues above me to be honest. The woman I am wanting isn't the type to snag this type of man.

I know you're trying to get me to see the light, but it pulls at the pit of my stomach as I am mildly borderline and have always struggled with self esteem issues. On the times I didn't, I went for seriously high value women who burned me HARD. I never quite got over that.

How does anyone ever KEEP a woman, seeing as a man can swoop in, there is always someone higher value? someone with more money? Is it THIS mercenary? Why dont women just become prostitutes? I dont pick the prettiest.

Get back in the ring is a sound notion. For me that means ages of searching and work.

There are more women than men on earth yet the fickle whims of chicks suggest there are 10 men for every woman. How can women be so choosy? why is it so shewed?

 

[Fruitbat]

Take deep breaths, @Fruitbat.

It's good to purge the emotions rather than hold them in. I was where you were a few months ago and nearly came completely unglued in all aspects of life. I had friends and family hold me up when I lost a main plate until I found the courage in myself to forge ahead.

My advice is to take a step back from dating in this moment. You don't have to dart for the exit sign and put on the monk mode robe, yet start to practice mindfulness.

Go get a massage.

Go hike a summit and breath in the air. Take in all the sights. What will the wind sound like? How will the tree branches move? What color are they? Listen to the silence. I know you're not religious, so just find a way to practice gratitude here for the life that you've been given.

Learn how to slow things down and let go. We hold onto things [people] so tight they sense this and flee. They flee less when they feel they're on equal ground with you in three areas: emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

I'm sure if you really want a family someday, you'll have it. For now, there's work to be done on inner game. The most will be in patience and in mastering impulses and cultivating fortitude. I'm a big fan of stoicism for developing a strong inner mindset. I've made a few philosopher threads on Mature Man forum if you want to look them up. Everyone has their challenges, studying distinguished men in history helps us to embody as men the mindset that women look up to.

Continue journaling, yet don't be too hard on yourself man. We've all been kicked in the gonads chasing our favorite plate to let it all crash and burn.

Mindfulness, gratitude, meditation/deep breathing, exercise, eating and sleeping well can get you all back on track and thriving again.

Thank you. I am a big believer inr the tao.

Just tired, so fvcking tired of being beat up. Tired of the pragmatic nature and cold calculating nature of woman.