Could you have avoided becoming an AFC?

AlexKaiser

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You'll notice a trend here. Majority of those who grow up beta (hate this term) have weak male figures. Modern men are being raised by women and feminism, even if there is a father present in the home. Western society and values have been feminised while masculinity has been demonized. This is why many men grow up believing the disney fantasy that if you're nice and caring enough, you will have love forever.
Well it's because masculinity is a threatening thing, the fact that somebody more successful than you can do as they want and you just have to DEAL with it because you're lesser. Nobody WANTS to be beta, nobody thinks "I want to raise another man's kids while he proliferates his genes to the world, and have my own die out, working hard and suffering for another lion's cubs.", but it just happens. It's a mix of bitterness, and a mix of escapism. A world where asserting yourself over the lesser men and taking their women DOESN'T work, a world where women can assert themselves over their mate without any threat of violence or any struggle of power. People believe that the "old primitive chimp ways" could change because they're more evolved, but until they can modify themselves on an instinctual and neurological level, Big D Daniel is going to win over Big Tit Tanya while Office Boy Barney loses and has to settle for PTSD Patty.

That and when you're born obviously inferior, you hope the disney fantasy comes true because it's the only world you'd ever be able to survive in.
 

Mike32ct

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So Mike32ct...

From an "outsider looking in" perspective what was the strongest draw for women?

1. Looks?
2. Affiliation? ( Social circles Frats, College or Pro ball player )
3. Money?
4. Intelligence?
5. Game?
etc
Prying open the lid of Pandora's box now... lol.

Depends on age range, but I'll answer generally.

Looks are the clear winner IMO. (Looks is very broad term and includes aesthetics, build, hair, height, skin tone, etc.)

As I get older, I also observe that money is a strong draw. Can be a close #2 or possibly #1 depending on the woman.

Intelligence generally doesn't attract women by itself. It's primarily good for career/business and nerdy pursuits for your own personal interest. I purposely "dumb myself down" when talking to women. I hate small talk, but it's essential.

Social circle is nice, but is still very much affected by looks and/or money. You can know lots of women but still be friendzoned.

I don't know that much about school sports teams or frat life, but it is no doubt a helpful wildcard for guys in school involved with those activities.

As for game, I'll just say this. Yes, good social skills matter. You also need enough experience to pick up subtle hints that women throw out when they are DTF or at least open to dating. But that's about it. I don't think that there is any magic to game. "Game" is finding someone already attracted to you (based on LMS) and not F-ing it up.
 
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Mike32ct

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You'll notice a trend here. Majority of those who grow up beta (hate this term) have weak male figures. Modern men are being raised by women and feminism, even if there is a father present in the home. Western society and values have been feminised while masculinity has been demonized. This is why many men grow up believing the disney fantasy that if you're nice and caring enough, you will have love forever.
I get what you are saying. But sometimes even the most "alpha" father can have mixed results with his sons.

Yes, sometimes the son becomes an aggressive/narcissistic/badboy/rebel just like his dad and does well with women. Other times, a dad like that intimidates his son and destroys his confidence. So you can also have a alpha dad and beta son combo.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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A lot of guys here say that it was because their father was beta or an afc or wasn't there enough. But what if he was TOO male? Too much of a he-man? That was somewhat the case for me, though he also was barely home because of work too. But even when he was home, he was TOO male/alpha, I guess you could say. And because of that, he believed that he could be the only alpha. When it came time for us (me and my brother) to start becoming men, he did not want that and tried crushing us numerous times. He still wanted us to bend for him. When it came time for him to yield to us so that we could become our own men, he crushed us instead. And I say, that is one of the worst things that you could do to your sons. He should have let us become the 'alpha' of the family even if it is only perceived as such. If you are a kid and stand up for yourself because someone took the soccer ball away from you and your friends during recess, you don't just hit your son for it because you want all the other families to like you better, that's ****ed up. Fortunately for me and my brother though, it's naturally in our behavior to rebel and just do our own thing lol so that's why we fought with him a lot, especially as we got older.

Essentially, my dad was so much of a man that he was a pvssy. That's why sometimes I say that he is one of the most alpha and beta guys I know. He does a lot of things that could be tough and also a lot of things that could be considered as feminine, and he holds some EXTREMELY strong, intense beliefs that he will die for. Some of those beliefs are even afc as hell too, but only because he strongly believes that women are inferior to men in a lot of ways and that women should obey men. Kind of like 'because they are weaker/lesser, we must protect them' sort of thing. And that's one way he becomes alpha and beta at the same time.

He knew how to exert himself, but he did not know how or when, or that he even SHOULD ever yield. Men know how to exert themselves as the dominant force, yes. But he didn't have the BALLS to back down ever. Think of it like The Secret of the Jerk. The nice guy is a slave, because he is a slave to society. The jerk on the other hand might SEEM more free, but he really isn't because he is slave to his passion. He let's his passion control him so he has no self-control. My father was the same way, but with PRIDE instead. He let his pride control him. You don't have to let go of your pride, but you do not become controlled by it to the point where you are trying to sabotage others and are in denial of your actual strength. Be gracious when yielding. Don't hold any hard feelings in doing so and allow your kids to flourish. If you are unable to yield because of arrogance or insecurity, it is no longer is authentic pride anymore, and instead becomes ego, and thus weakness. It takes strength to back down.
__________________________________________________________________

This is just one problem of many that I had growing up that made me worse off than other kids. There still are many other things to consider as well. However, I recently watched a video by Elliot Hulse and he talked about this and described my feelings about this situation so I was finally able to put it into words what the problem with this aspect of my life was and then I remembered this thread so I decided to write a little bit about this.
 
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There is no definitive 'alpha.' That being said, player probably would have been a better word for him to avoid you moral high ground warriors.
Yes he has probably dad abandoning him issues or something like that, definitely not entering that rabbit hole.
 

SmooveMooves

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I get what you are saying. But sometimes even the most "alpha" father can have mixed results with his sons.

Yes, sometimes the son becomes an aggressive/narcissistic/badboy/rebel just like his dad and does well with women. Other times, a dad like that intimidates his son and destroys his confidence. So you can also have a alpha dad and beta son combo.
As a mentioned in a different post. There is no definitive alpha. An alpha isn't necessarily an aggressive badboy rebel. By alpha in this context, I mean an intelligent, calibrated, assertive man, who understands the sexual market. A man like this would not likely intimidate his son.

In the days of the nuclear family, everything about being a man and masculinity was passed down from the father. You were expected to carry on his legacy. Now young men are being raised in nuclear families that consist of the internet and the state, whom essentially make the classic nuclear family absolete.
 

SmooveMooves

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But what if he was TOO male? Too much of a he-man? That was somewhat the case for me, though he also was barely home because of work too. But even when he was home, he was TOO male/alpha, I guess you could say. And because of that, he believed that he could be the only alpha.
That's why I said lackluster father figure. A father who is predominately absent or overly aggressive is not a strong male figure. A strong male figure has inclination to teach his son how to be a man because this ensures that he is successful and his genes continue to pass on. Your father's behavior was out of insecurity which is the opposite of alpha. He wasn't too male he was too insecure, as a result leaving you as well as your brother unguided and filled with much resentment.
 
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As a mentioned in a different post. There is no definitive alpha. An alpha isn't necessarily an aggressive badboy rebel. By alpha in this context, I mean an intelligent, calibrated, assertive man, who understands the sexual market. A man like this would not likely intimidate his son.

In the days of the nuclear family, everything about being a man and masculinity was passed down from the father. You were expected to carry on his legacy. Now young men are being raised in nuclear families that consist of the internet and the state, whom essentially make the classic nuclear family absolete.
From my perspective it is Alpha because he lived the way he wanted and didn't let society moral standards in his way.

He wanted it all, the perfect house wife but at the same time chasing tails on his free time, doesn't go wo saying that I came to know by a weird coincidence and probably the only one in the family who knows.

At the same time he raised me on the conception that doing what he did is wrong, I do not agree with cheating, but it was his choice and I find that Alpha.

Either way, not like I'm a huge savant on the subject, all opinions are welcome.
 

Konada

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I get what you are saying. But sometimes even the most "alpha" father can have mixed results with his sons.

Yes, sometimes the son becomes an aggressive/narcissistic/badboy/rebel just like his dad and does well with women. Other times, a dad like that intimidates his son and destroys his confidence. So you can also have a alpha dad and beta son combo.
I can attest to this... My dad is an alpha but he never raised me that way. I.E I never learnt to fight for myself and that is where I think I really begun my descent into a low-value male. It was only becoming aware of the redpill and me starting to observe his mannerisms that I begun to pick it up. And this was not until I was 22.
 

Roober

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Grew up with my dad, so...

1. never witnessed a good healthy relationship. He had a couple GFs, and he led, but didn't really show me how to do it
2. Talked to pops more about women, something I intend to do with my boys
3. Had a strong alpha around me. Most men are beta a fvck, and I could have benefited from someone who did not supplicate
4. Latch key kid, so I had to figure out a lot on my own
5. Mom is a bit unstable, so that didn't help, she also had beta BFs

For kids to be successful, they need better role models. Unfortunately, this will likely happen in only about 10% of households. Most of the best relationships are merely just two people motoring through life. They witness their parents nonchalant attitudes and focus on getting through each day, instead of truly loving one another. They end up loving their lifestyles, not each other.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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That's why I said lackluster father figure. A father who is predominately absent or overly aggressive is not a strong male figure. A strong male figure has inclination to teach his son how to be a man because this ensures that he is successful and his genes continue to pass on. Your father's behavior was out of insecurity which is the opposite of alpha. He wasn't too male he was too insecure, as a result leaving you as well as your brother unguided and filled with much resentment.
It's not so much insecurity as it is self-righteousness. His way is the only way there ever is, was, and will be, and if you disagree with him that means you are dumb because that means the whole world disagrees with you. The way a man is, he has to dominate and make others submit to him. The way a father is, he has to be a man but also not be oppressive and teach his sons these things. My dad never did any of that with us. Dominate and force others to do what you want. But he never understood the father aspect of letting your kids grow unless we grew in the way he wanted us to. He never let us explore the world or experience things on our own. Well he didn't let me and my older sister do that, but he relaxed with my brother and younger sister a lot. He does have an insecurity but it isn't really masculinity. Things get super complicated within our family dynamic and I don't quite feel like saying too much.
 

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Don't see much point in figuring out every possible reason why it didn't go well with women for me the easy natural way.
Could I avoid that? No way, it was the only possible way for me.
 

greatsnake

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I certainly think so. I was brought up with Christian values and actively going to church, so I think that my upbringing did give me the perception that everyone was "good, genuine, giving etc".

I'm not blaming my parents because they did the best they could, but I think that if they would have talked to me about the reality of the world, I would have a different attitude towards women, in this case.
 

AlphaNate

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Maybe, but I wouldn't change a thing.

Most of the guys in school that got all the p*ssy are probably punk losers stuck with women they hate. I know for sure that some are.

Being a b*itch chump is the reason you all took the red pill. We're all here for betterment because of it.
 

ubercat

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Always been the quirky guy. Even here you guys will have noticed I take a bit of spin on the standard approaches. Took me until late 30s to learn to be comfortable with that. Trouble was that naturally attracted a lot of quirky ..Read... f***** up girls. Lots of great fvcks and lots of really bad head fvcks

My game is around my personality and works fine for me. I deal with the standard sh1t tests quite comfortably but I do want to experiment with some more direct dominant game.
 

hockeyfreak79

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When I was around 10yrs old or so I was the punk on the street getting into trouble. In my neighborhood I wasn't scared of anyone, until this 1 day.

I saw this new girl riding her bike around (probably 12?)she had this great sweet bubble butt and I just had to slap it. Yeah, I wasn't a bright kid. Well low and behold she had an older brother (14-15) I don't remember exact age. He kind of beat me up, not really bad I think he just put me in a head lock and I had to swear not to touch his sister again. Low and behold we ended up becoming friends. I learned a lot through him watching him get with girls. Just being his friend I even made out with some older chicks and felt my first boobs around age 11-12.

Even with some successes as a kid I still managed to let woman have the power and turn me into AFC. Did I ever go full on AFC? Oh yeah definitely, even tho i knew there were plenty more to meet. I think it's a natural phase, some grow out of it and some don't??
 
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devilkingx2

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I could've found this site and PUA stuff in general even earlier than I did and started taking it seriously earlier than I did, who knows how my life would've gone if i was redpilled in high school or even middle school
 

dk1990S111

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I could've found this site and PUA stuff in general even earlier than I did and started taking it seriously earlier than I did, who knows how my life would've gone if i was redpilled in high school or even middle school
I wish I woulda known how to handle girls in middle school. First "gf" in 6th grade was this hot little blonde. Was playing spin the bottle with a bunch of my friends and her friends for hugs lol she asked if I wanted to be her bf and I said ya but once all her friends found out I was worried it would get back to my oneitis. Never ended up doing anything with her but I bet she would have been dtf. She and another kid kissed and everyone starting saying she had mono when she was out sick. Another girl I shoulda gotten with in middle school was this cute Latina that was bi. I wasn't open enough to that kinda thing back then so never gave her a chance but I'm sure her and her gf woulda been down for a 3some. Wish I could turn back time, a couple of my biggest regrets in life right there.
 

devilkingx2

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I wish I woulda known how to handle girls in middle school. First "gf" in 6th grade was this hot little blonde. Was playing spin the bottle with a bunch of my friends and her friends for hugs lol she asked if I wanted to be her bf and I said ya but once all her friends found out I was worried it would get back to my oneitis. Never ended up doing anything with her but I bet she would have been dtf. She and another kid kissed and everyone starting saying she had mono when she was out sick. Another girl I shoulda gotten with in middle school was this cute Latina that was bi. I wasn't open enough to that kinda thing back then so never gave her a chance but I'm sure her and her gf woulda been down for a 3some. Wish I could turn back time, a couple of my biggest regrets in life right there.
i don't think sex in middle school is a realistic goal but a lot of fun could've been had regardless
 

dk1990S111

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i don't think sex in middle school is a realistic goal but a lot of fun could've been had regardless
Lol ya I was thinking about if I'd want my son doing **** that early but it was likely very possible. If that woulda happened then I'm sure word would have spread and life would have been way different. Still lost my virginity freshman year to a senior so not too bad compared to most of my buddies
 
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