Why do we lie to ourselves?

Urbanyst

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Why do we like to pretend things like looks, money and value are not the most important things for attracting women? (all of those together, not just one).

Isn't it similar to fat women pretending they can get a hot guy if they have a great personality, big job and PHD?

Of course personality is very important. But that is more about compatibility. When it comes to sex appeal, its basically looks, money and high value.

All the games, PUA rhetoric, stupid hats, and pick-up lines don't do anything to make a guy hot if he isn't already.

Don't we set ourselves up for success better if we just accept how things really work?

All the material out there for men is basically telling them to act like a high value man without actually being one. Of course, any woman you trick that way will eventually learn she got manipulated and dump you. If you just want to be a man wh*re then PUA stuff is great though.

For LTR's, you need compatibility and high value. There is no way around it. And no book you read will give it to you.
 

AlphaNate

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The bigger issue is the stigma society puts on men today for wanting to act like men. Men are trained today that everybody's feelings matter all the time, and anyone that's not a feminist is literally Hitler.

If you have more money, more personality, and better genes than most men, you should win most girls by default. But tell me that 95% of the men you know aren't brain-dead morons who are even worse with women than other aspects of life. Pedestalization is rampant.

That's why you see people on these boards complaining about "deadbeat losers" that pull more chicks than they do. They may be deadbeats, but they're not p*ssies.
 

Tenacity

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Why do we like to pretend things like looks, money and value are not the most important things for attracting women? (all of those together, not just one).
Because most guys are lazy and impatient. They don't want to do the work, nor do they have the patience to allow things/themselves to progress over time. They want to get everything in a microwaveable second, without having to put in much work for it.

Very similar to the fitness and financial industry.

- Everybody wants to just put on an "ab belt" or pop a fat burner pill to get abs overnight. They don't want to actually work out, do cardio, and eat right, with the abs coming in slowly over time.

- Everybody wants to listen to late night infomercials about getting rich "quick" through flipping real estate or day trading. Nobody wants to actually build a career and/or a solid business, live below their means, and continue to invest in growth projects that appreciate slowly over time. They all want to get rich QUICK with little work.

All the material out there for men is basically telling them to act like a high value man without actually being one.
Correct.

For LTR's, you need compatibility and high value. There is no way around it. And no book you read will give it to you.
Correct again.
 

devilkingx2

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Why do we like to pretend things like looks, money and value are not the most important things for attracting women? (all of those together, not just one).
because game is entirely pointless if getting girls is purely a function of those things.

would you say that any and all game is pointless as a concept?

Isn't it similar to fat women pretending they can get a hot guy if they have a great personality, big job and PHD?
it's more like fat women trying to get guys by being amazing in bed so that they'll look past the 20 extra pounds

All the games, PUA rhetoric, stupid hats, and pick-up lines don't do anything to make a guy hot if he isn't already.
so only rich guys and athletes get hot girls?

All the material out there for men is basically telling them to act like a high value man without actually being one.
because becoming a high value man takes months or years and nobody wants to spend months on something before they see any results. teaching you game so you can get HB7s will hold you over until you can get the abs you need for the HB8s
 

Trump

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Because the real talk and the truth hurts. It's painful to look inside yourself and ask why you can't get a girl.

No one wants to work hard, study hard, be uncomfortable, risk ego, be embarrassed, not understand, say stupid things, be made fun of. Much easier to blame the other party for not giving you what you want.o_O
 

Create self-fulfilling prophecies. Always assume the positive. Assume she likes you. Assume she wants to talk to you. Assume she wants to go out with you. When you think positive, positive things happen.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

logicallefty

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Looks matter the most getting you in the door with a woman. Money, status, etc. are also important getting in the door initially. But once in, it's frame that matters most in making sure you get what you want from the relationship.

If she is a good fit for you then a good frame is your best ticket to make her want to stay with you.

If she is not a good fit for you a good frame will also allow you to end it with her before she ends it with you, and more importantly, before she damages you in any sort of way like emotionally, financially. etc.
 

ThisNThat

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Because most guys are lazy and impatient. They don't want to do the work, nor do they have the patience to allow things/themselves to progress over time. They want to get everything in a microwaveable second, without having to put in much work for it.

Very similar to the fitness and financial industry.

- Everybody wants to just put on an "ab belt" or pop a fat burner pill to get abs overnight. They don't want to actually work out, do cardio, and eat right, with the abs coming in slowly over time.

- Everybody wants to listen to late night infomercials about getting rich "quick" through flipping real estate or day trading. Nobody wants to actually build a career and/or a solid business, live below their means, and continue to invest in growth projects that appreciate slowly over time. They all want to get rich QUICK with little work.



Correct.



Correct again.
Speaking from experience, even though I am not swimming in countless dates, with the women I did attract, it was quite effortless...just "be yourself" and it worked...at least for those women.

After a dry spell and several rejections, it's quite refreshing to score by just being yourself. ;-) Little work required, just basic socialization.
 

El Payaso

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Looks matter the most getting you in the door with a woman. Money, status, etc. are also important getting in the door initially. But once in, it's frame that matters most in making sure you get what you want from the relationship.

If she is a good fit for you then a good frame is your best ticket to make her want to stay with you.

If she is not a good fit for you a good frame will also allow you to end it with her before she ends it with you, and more importantly, before she damages you in any sort of way like emotionally, financially. etc.
This.
 

Urbanyst

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This sounds like it could have been written by a female - no offense. I've seen it a million times here and elsewhere.

Nobody here is lying to himself when it comes to the red pill. It's the antidote to self delusion, not the cause. Yes, looks and sex appeal will get your foot in the door with a woman. After that, she will throw up every road block in her arsenal to see if she can get you to stumble. How you navigate those tests = Game. Whether a man chooses to play, and how, is up to him.
I don't see how it comes off like a female wrote it. Its true isn't it? I thought the red pill was about the ugly truth.

Telling men to wear stupid hats and use pick-up lines won't make them more attractive to women if women don't already find them attractive. That is the red pill right?

Here is where I'm coming from. I've broken every rule and still had hot girls sleep with me. I've also followed every rule and still got rejected.

What game does is makes you date women you are not compatible with. It teaches you to change your personality around what women expect. This is fine if you want to just sleep around, but bad for LTR's.

I'm a relatively good looking guy. Not a model, but most girls think I'm handsome. I've always been able to attract women with looks, but that's all I had going. I started making really good money around a year ago and it boosted my confidence a lot. The looks, plus the money made me more outgoing, bold and confident because I started feeling entitled to hot women more than before. Now I can totally be myself and still get hot girls. I don't have to play dumb PUA games, use lines or worry about how long I wait to call or text a girl. So it makes me think game is kind of worthless and value is what women want in the end.

The red pill seems to be more about the inner game stuff which is very good, but I can sum it up in very simple terms: Just don't be desperate and don't chase after incompatible women just because they are attractive. That's all you really need for inner game.
 

BeTheChange

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Plenty of men already have value, both internal pertaining to their individuality and external. They just need to tweak their behavior to become more outgoing and attractive.
To add, the very belief that one has value actually creates behaviours and actions that generate legitimate value - a self fulfilling prophecy.

A lot of the greats believed they were the best before anyone else acknowledged it.
 

Men frequently err by talking too much. They often monopolize conversations, droning on and on about topics that bore women to tears. They think they're impressing the women when, in reality, they're depressing the women.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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I disagree that it's what matters for LTRs. ONS it's all about what you are ok face value, but LTRs do depend on personality more so than the other types of relationships.
 

Tenacity

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To add, the very belief that one has value actually creates behaviours and actions that generate legitimate value - a self fulfilling prophecy.

A lot of the greats believed they were the best before anyone else acknowledged it.
But the greats do it differently than the average guy though:

- Guy A believes he's the best but prepares, works out, and works on himself constantly. He's always striving to be better, learn more, grow more, etc. This guy eventually becomes great "usually".

- Guy B believes he's the best and thus, doesn't feel he needs to put in much "work". This is the guy that doesn't get anywhere "usually".
 

Mike32ct

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But the greats do it differently than the average guy though:

- Guy A believes he's the best but prepares, works out, and works on himself constantly. He's always striving to be better, learn more, grow more, etc. This guy eventually becomes great "usually".

- Guy B believes he's the best and thus, doesn't feel he needs to put in much "work". This is the guy that doesn't get anywhere "usually".
Exactly.

I would just add that there are probably two subsets of Guy B (who believes he's the best but doesn't work at it).

Guy B1 - Naturally has a talent for XYZ, but doesn't work too hard at it. He ends up mediocre at BEST, despite his gift/potential.

Guy B2 - Doesn't have a talent for XYZ, but lives in an ongoing dream or fantasy about how he's going to be great at XYZ. He doesn't work at it and gets nowhere.
 

Urbanyst

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I disagree that it's what matters for LTRs. ONS it's all about what you are ok face value, but LTRs do depend on personality more so than the other types of relationships.
I said both compatibility and high value matter for LTR's.

Didn't I?
 

bigneil

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Why do we like to pretend things like looks, money and value are not the most important things for attracting women? (all of those together, not just one).

Isn't it similar to fat women pretending they can get a hot guy if they have a great personality, big job and PHD?

Of course personality is very important. But that is more about compatibility. When it comes to sex appeal, its basically looks, money and high value.

All the games, PUA rhetoric, stupid hats, and pick-up lines don't do anything to make a guy hot if he isn't already.

Don't we set ourselves up for success better if we just accept how things really work?

All the material out there for men is basically telling them to act like a high value man without actually being one. Of course, any woman you trick that way will eventually learn she got manipulated and dump you. If you just want to be a man wh*re then PUA stuff is great though.

For LTR's, you need compatibility and high value. There is no way around it. And no book you read will give it to you.

"You are a total prostitute"
"Hey, that's how things are, you just don't know it because you're this pampered suburban chick!"
"So are you. You were only in Seventeen once and you looked fat, so stop going around acting like you're goddamn Christie Turlington"
"Cvnt!"


Scene from American Beauty (1999)
 

Well I'm here to tell you there is such a magic wand. Something that will make you almost completely irresistible to any woman you "point it" at. Something guaranteed to fill your life with love, romance, and excitement.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

mrgoodstuff

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Why do we like to pretend things like looks, money and value are not the most important things for attracting women? (all of those together, not just one).

Isn't it similar to fat women pretending they can get a hot guy if they have a great personality, big job and PHD?

Of course personality is very important. But that is more about compatibility. When it comes to sex appeal, its basically looks, money and high value.

All the games, PUA rhetoric, stupid hats, and pick-up lines don't do anything to make a guy hot if he isn't already.

Don't we set ourselves up for success better if we just accept how things really work?

All the material out there for men is basically telling them to act like a high value man without actually being one. Of course, any woman you trick that way will eventually learn she got manipulated and dump you. If you just want to be a man wh*re then PUA stuff is great though.

For LTR's, you need compatibility and high value. There is no way around it. And no book you read will give it to you.
Well a fat girl CAN get a hot guy with those credentials. Because that's who strippers and gigilos date. Female providers.
 

wifehunter

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You don't need money to be high value. Money happens, because you are high value.

Money is just a store (aka container) for value. That's all!

Be... high value. Be...Money!!!
 

fastlife

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I'm a relatively good looking guy. Not a model, but most girls think I'm handsome. I've always been able to attract women with looks, but that's all I had going. I started making really good money around a year ago and it boosted my confidence a lot. The looks, plus the money made me more outgoing, bold and confident because I started feeling entitled to hot women more than before. Now I can totally be myself and still get hot girls. I don't have to play dumb PUA games, use lines or worry about how long I wait to call or text a girl. So it makes me think game is kind of worthless and value is what women want in the end.
Occam's razor says that if you could feel and act that confident without the use of external props, which could theoretically vanish at any time (money), then you could've achieved those same results when you were flat broke. Human sexuality evolved before the prefrontal cortex, which is how we make complex value judgments (i.e. "Well, this guy is hot but he doesn't make enough money to sustain our relationship longterm so I shouldn't sleep with him," etc.). In the moment, the only thing that matters is 1.) How you make the girl feel and 2.) How successfully you can get her alone. That simple. How a girl will evaluate your value after sex is drastically different than how she would've evaluated your value before sex.

Wealth, of course, is nice, to the extent that it alleviates stress and grants greater potential freedom. It'd be hard to sustain an LTR longterm without it; it's hard to maintain frame when you're stuck in your head worrying about how you'll eat next week. But it's not necessary for bedding hot girls--except as far as access is concerned. For instance, it's not possible to consistently bed fashion models unless you're able to hangout in places where fashion models consistently frequent; and usually that involves living somewhere like New York or L.A., which isn't cheap.

The red pill seems to be more about the inner game stuff which is very good, but I can sum it up in very simple terms: Just don't be desperate and don't chase after incompatible women just because they are attractive. That's all you really need for inner game.
In this case, incompatible just means that sleeping with you isn't very high on their list of priorities. Those same women could be compatible if you were pressing the right buttons, which you can learn to do pretty consistently & predictably. At a certain point, though, there's diminishing returns--so I'd agree that it's more efficient to live life in a way that feels good for you and to allot your time to the women who find value in the person you most enjoy being.

Telling men to wear stupid hats and use pick-up lines won't make them more attractive to women if women don't already find them attractive. That is the red pill right?
Straw man. No one's advocated that since ~2004.

What game does is makes you date women you are not compatible with. It teaches you to change your personality around what women expect. This is fine if you want to just sleep around, but bad for LTR's.
Personality =/= How you choose to present/express that personality. It's far easier to fall into ego-defense mechanisms than it is to live as an authentic embodiment of your personal desires. Your ego can spin all types of tricks to convince you that the low hanging fruit is the most edible; or to convince you that you don't like approaching girls since "You're an introvert"; and that girl you wanted but didn't approach--well, she wasn't that hot, anyway; and so on and so forth.

Most guys knock cold approach because they don't have the balls to do it. You can probably find posts where I knock it circa November or December 2015. But I'd advocate every guy set aside a night or two every weekend until they're pretty good at it, before they decide what other areas they need to work on improving in their lives (because there's a high probability they're doing things unnecessarily that will take up a lot of time when that they wouldn't do if they could consistently pull girls they wanted with nothing but the clothes on their back).
 

If you want to talk, talk to your friends. If you want a girl to like you, listen to her, ask questions, and act like you are on the edge of your seat.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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