Ever listen to their problems just to gain insight as to how they think?

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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I do. That is why my answer is in two parts. Can you listen to their problems etc?

Depends on what YOU want. Do you want to be her friend her therapist or her best friend? Or do you want her to see you as someone she would want to date.

If you become her shoulder to cry on she won't see you as dating material.
Ahh true, but a lot of times women want you to think that you at least somewhat care about them before they'll let you get it in. I think that's how you get rid of last minute resistance too because then they'll feel safe and comfortable around you. This is in my experience anyway.
 

bigneil

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Do I listen to their problems to gain insight into how they think?

No, but I listen in general to gain insight into how they think.

I was waiting for a train today.

A woman was nagging a man quite a bit on the platform... He replied, "yeah sure. Love you loads. See you later". And got on the train. The guy was fat and ugly. The girl was a decent 6. Alpha.
If a third party observer declares him "fat and ugly" it's questionable whether he was alpha or simply fortunate.
 

Roober

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Some people (and I'm just learning this now, mind you) just don't like to talk though. Either that, or they literally have nothing to talk about. I'm running into that problem at uni actually, no one here talks to each other. I'm surprised I've actually made a few friends.
People's conversation skills are certainly plummeting with the increased use of devices. Sometimes you just need to find the right triggers to get someone going though and make them comfortable enough to reveal information. It could begin with you revealing some snippet (small personal detail) about yourself, but then getting them to divulge much more through relational experience. Another way is just a direct personal question. Sometimes you get push back, but you have to just try again, or frame it in a positive light...

For example, my cousin has ridden the cvck carousel like crazy and she is proud of it. Love her, but ya know... I had a feeling my exgf had done it quite a bit as well. We were talking casually about something and I brought up how my cousin has lots of experience and has really been selective on who she dates, and I admired that... my exgf then revealed that she had a period in college where she "had fun" and what I estimate to be in the 20-30 partner range within a year or so...

You just have to lead them down the path and they will often offer up so much information for you.
 

fastlife

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There's one problem with the premise of this thread: Often, when people talk to you about their problems it's not from a place of genuine expression--it's usually just manipulation.

I spent a lot of time trying to figure people out--and at various points of time thought I was getting closer to that understanding by receiving confidences from other people about their problems & vulnerabilities. But for the most part, it's safer to assume that anytime you hear anything approaching a sob story from anyone other than your closest friends (where you know that not to be the case), it's just a con.
 

bigneil

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People's conversation skills are certainly plummeting with the increased use of devices. Sometimes you just need to find the right triggers to get someone going though and make them comfortable enough to reveal information. You just have to lead them down the path and they will often offer up so much information for you.
My woman has a brain that is her primary erogenous zone. I knew within her saying just a few syllables that she was an intellectual. By telling her a few things about herself (from astrology, body language and later handwriting analysis), I had her gushing. She later said she is primarily interested in smart men versus good looking men (and lucky for me). Keep an eye out for women who aren't into phones. They often dress in throwback clothing.
 

SuckItUp

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The best thing I learned from listening to women is learning what to bust them on and how to push their buttons.

Problems = not sexually arousing.

Unless you are fighting with a woman her bringing up her problems does nothing to get her in a mood for sex.

You'll also find that women are reticent to talk about problems because they know it's a massive turn off for guys.

Frankly, you typically find that their problems are often silly and petty and you'll probably be saying wtf.

For example, I was talking to a friend a little while back who, in the span our lengthy conversation, went from thinking she was dating two guys she had thought about settling down with to polyamory.

By the end of the conversation she wasn't sure if she was even into them. Talk about being wishy washy.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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There's one problem with the premise of this thread: Often, when people talk to you about their problems it's not from a place of genuine expression--it's usually just manipulation.

I spent a lot of time trying to figure people out--and at various points of time thought I was getting closer to that understanding by receiving confidences from other people about their problems & vulnerabilities. But for the most part, it's safer to assume that anytime you hear anything approaching a sob story from anyone other than your closest friends (where you know that not to be the case), it's just a con.
Why would you say that? I can usually tell if someone is bullsh!tting or not by how familiar their story seems, how it's structured, missing links, how they say it, their body language, how they are, and how other people think of that person. But why would you say that?
 

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If you want to micro analyse people that's fine. That can/should be done in regular conversation.

But your talking about listening to biitching here. It's almost like you are trying to justify a negative characteristic by deeming it research worthy. The wole time at the expense of the original intention which is picking the best woman possible.

Maybe you are trying to justify AFC qualities?
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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If you want to micro analyse people that's fine. That can/should be done in regular conversation.

But your talking about listening to biitching here. It's almost like you are trying to justify a negative characteristic by deeming it research worthy. The wole time at the expense of the original intention which is picking the best woman possible.

Maybe you are trying to justify AFC qualities?
I watched Elliott Hulse and he talked about the word 'nice'. Niceness is essentially an act, whereas kindness comes from the core of a human. It's not justifying nice guy behavior, it's justifying a 'kind sociopath' type of behavior. There is a difference between b!tching and actually stressing or being upset over something. You can tell the difference. A lot of times people just want to talk to relieve some of the pain. They associate you with relief if you do it in the right way. But you need to know HOW to do it and WHEN. Because if you do it wrong, then they start to associate you with the bad and negative emotions they usually unload when you are around. What I am saying is to be the normal fun and lighthearted and playful type dude that you guys say will get you laid, BUT just don't be afraid to get a little sentimental every once in a while. That lets them open up to you and feel like you are a guy who can be caring, but actually still 'gets it' when it comes to women. Plus like I said, you figure out their inner workings which definitely can help in manipulation or even better, charm. You see the PERSON aspect of them so you know what turns them on not just as a woman, but as a person too.
 

SgtSplacker

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I watched Elliott Hulse and he talked about the word 'nice'. Niceness is essentially an act, whereas kindness comes from the core of a human. It's not justifying nice guy behavior, it's justifying a 'kind sociopath' type of behavior. There is a difference between b!tching and actually stressing or being upset over something. You can tell the difference. A lot of times people just want to talk to relieve some of the pain. They associate you with relief if you do it in the right way. But you need to know HOW to do it and WHEN. Because if you do it wrong, then they start to associate you with the bad and negative emotions they usually unload when you are around. What I am saying is to be the normal fun and lighthearted and playful type dude that you guys say will get you laid, BUT just don't be afraid to get a little sentimental every once in a while. That lets them open up to you and feel like you are a guy who can be caring, but actually still 'gets it' when it comes to women. Plus like I said, you figure out their inner workings which definitely can help in manipulation or even better, charm. You see the PERSON aspect of them so you know what turns them on not just as a woman, but as a person too.
Hey if the conversation is interesting and you are matching her energy by participating then have at it. If you feel yourself like some kind of psychiatrist listening to a patient then I would recommend aversion tactics.

If you really have so little experience with women that you find listening to that kinda thing has value for you, there's nothing wrong with that. But please understand that when a woman sees you are willing to invest so much time listening to nonsense like that they automatically place you in the friend zone because a man of high value has no time for that BS.

Rather than trying to get in a girls head so much, spend more time trying to get in her panties first. Those lessons are the true gold for a man.
 

The Duke

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Rather than trying to get in a girls head so much, spend more time trying to get in her panties first. Those lessons are the true gold for a man.
So if you don't take the route that passes thru her mind on the way to what is under her panties, then what route do you take?
 

SgtSplacker

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So if you don't take the route that passes thru her mind on the way to what is under her panties, then what route do you take?
The route I take is faster paced. The route includes hormonal responses, arousal. Physical over verbal communication.

Intellectual conversions do have their place. I save them for pillow talk after I'm satisfied first.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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The route I take is faster paced. The route includes hormonal responses, arousal. Physical over verbal communication.

Intellectual conversions do have their place. I save them for pillow talk after I'm satisfied first.
You didn't understand a thing of what I said.
 

SuckItUp

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I watched Elliott Hulse and he talked about the word 'nice'. Niceness is essentially an act, whereas kindness comes from the core of a human. It's not justifying nice guy behavior, it's justifying a 'kind sociopath' type of behavior. There is a difference between b!tching and actually stressing or being upset over something. You can tell the difference. A lot of times people just want to talk to relieve some of the pain. They associate you with relief if you do it in the right way. But you need to know HOW to do it and WHEN. Because if you do it wrong, then they start to associate you with the bad and negative emotions they usually unload when you are around. What I am saying is to be the normal fun and lighthearted and playful type dude that you guys say will get you laid, BUT just don't be afraid to get a little sentimental every once in a while. That lets them open up to you and feel like you are a guy who can be caring, but actually still 'gets it' when it comes to women. Plus like I said, you figure out their inner workings which definitely can help in manipulation or even better, charm. You see the PERSON aspect of them so you know what turns them on not just as a woman, but as a person too.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that you should have deeper conversations with women; however, what is being said is that there are several things a woman will bring up that are not good things to discuss unless you are having regular sexual and she's emotionally invested. That's why politics, religion etc are not usually topics to talk about because while being charged is similar to a sexual state, you can be blown out because you take certain positions.

It takes a lot of practice and discipline if you go the route of the philosopher.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that you should have deeper conversations with women; however, what is being said is that there are several things a woman will bring up that are not good things to discuss unless you are having regular sexual and she's emotionally invested. That's why politics, religion etc are not usually topics to talk about because while being charged is similar to a sexual state, you can be blown out because you take certain positions.

It takes a lot of practice and discipline if you go the route of the philosopher.
Well you don't talk about religion or politics or any of that to anyone really. Those are super touchy subjects lol. Those aren't exactly very EMOTIONAL topics either imo, just controversial.
 

Desdinova

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Obviously you guys are gonna say how it's stupid to listen to a girl's problems and such. But I find that it gives us insight as to how they think and feel, and it tells us why as well so that we know what makes them (and other girls) tick.
It's not really the problems you should be paying attention to, it's WHY they are problems at all. Here's an example...

My GF was telling me today about how her (female) boss took her into the office and told her that she was getting certain "vibes" from my GF, and felt it was important to address things when there appears to be something going on with her team. My GF claims that these "vibes" are all bull5hit.

Now, you look at that situation and think that it's all fvcking stupid petty garbage, and it really is. But why does this petty garbage exist?

Her boss is attempting to read my GF, possibly because she has some other feelings going on about her. Then she tries to actually read my GF and gets it wrong. My GF is now upset because she can't figure out how she's causing her boss to feel these vibes.

Yeah, it's still a mess, but it's all based on pre-existing feelings which are influencing current feelings. There's actually no real substance to these issues. It's all women feeling this and feeling that, and then thinking that they're good at reading other people and then they get new feelings from that.

Feelings, feelings, feelings. That's as deep as you should go when you're trying to read and influence women. This is why I say that most women do NOT have an agenda when it comes to dating. They have feelings and instinct. That's it.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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It's not really the problems you should be paying attention to, it's WHY they are problems at all. Here's an example...

My GF was telling me today about how her (female) boss took her into the office and told her that she was getting certain "vibes" from my GF, and felt it was important to address things when there appears to be something going on with her team. My GF claims that these "vibes" are all bull5hit.

Now, you look at that situation and think that it's all fvcking stupid petty garbage, and it really is. But why does this petty garbage exist?

Her boss is attempting to read my GF, possibly because she has some other feelings going on about her. Then she tries to actually read my GF and gets it wrong. My GF is now upset because she can't figure out how she's causing her boss to feel these vibes.

Yeah, it's still a mess, but it's all based on pre-existing feelings which are influencing current feelings. There's actually no real substance to these issues. It's all women feeling this and feeling that, and then thinking that they're good at reading other people and then they get new feelings from that.

Feelings, feelings, feelings. That's as deep as you should go when you're trying to read and influence women. This is why I say that most women do NOT have an agenda when it comes to dating. They have feelings and instinct. That's it.
It's WHY, and how they deal with it. Then you gotta know WHY they dealt with it in that specific way. Because it let's you know their emotional standing towards everything and gives you a better idea how doing things would affect her emotional standing towards you.
 

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I was waiting for a train today.

A woman was nagging a man quite a bit on the platform. He was ignoring it.

The train arrived, and she finally said "are you listening to me?".

He replied, "yeah sure. Love you loads. See you later". And got on the train.

The guy was fat and ugly. The girl was a decent 6.

Alpha.

Eavesdropping on other people's sets is quite fun :D
And the guy probably got in his car and jacked off. We don't even know if he got her number or anything. Attention is worth very little to a man, where for women, it's everything.

Doing alpha moves is great, but the end result is she either follows your lead as you're the alpha, or she'll scoff because you won't be her beta.

IMO, going behind enemy lines is ok, but make sure to say you have a girlfriend. Get advice from these women, but be playing Candy Crush on your phone while doing so. You have enough friends, and you won't be her new orbiter or Instagram follower.
 

fastlife

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Why would you say that? I can usually tell if someone is bullsh!tting or not by how familiar their story seems, how it's structured, missing links, how they say it, their body language, how they are, and how other people think of that person. But why would you say that?
Just my experience--but I've had years to watch the people who most readily & consistently talked about their problems. Those types generally aren't trying to do sh1t about it; but they'll use you to 1.) Validate their problems as being legitimate (by listening, sympathizing, etc.) or 2.) To garner your sympathy so that you enable their victimhood or 3.) To get you to call them out so that they can vindicate themselves as being even more of a victim.

There are just as many people who don't have chronic problems or who might seek your advice as they take proactive steps towards fixing their own issues. Of course you can't fit people into just two boxes--and some otherwise solid people might confide in you about issues they're facing--but for the most part this is overwhelmingly the case. My life is on the up and up--I take steps to keep it that way--I don't burden people with my sh1t and one of my boundaries is that I don't let people dump their negativity into mine. When people try, instead of trying to empathize, I just deflect, "Yeah. Uh huh. That's rough," and switch the topic to something lighter; people will be as positive or negative (generally--girls especially) as you allow them to be and I'd rather people feel good when they're around me.
 

devilkingx2

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As someone who likes to think and analyze, I think you're reading way too much into things OP

How a woman thinks doesn't really sound like something you'd wanna know lol.
 
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