Why "The Dating Market" Sucks

[mrgoodstuff]

I'm glad that you make this concession; specifically, that LTRs are hard work, and are thus not easy.

To the untrained eye, it could appear that those who entertain the harder roads are "morons," and the easy road of plate-spinning is ripe for the picking. Looking deeper, though, there is a trade-off. Why would some men purposefully choose an LTR, when with LTRs (as you said), "you get more drama, work, and obligations"?

Answer: There is a greater return (for me) in LTRs.

Example:
I delineated an example earlier in this thread demonstrating how my date weekend of 5 girls will take/has taken 10 hours of my time. During plate spinning, while a harem is in play, you still need to approach. In addition, to the approach. if you are keeping a harem of three women, you need to communicate and spend time with three women as opposed to one.

In LTRs, I spend little time dating. Generally, I will take the LTR along with whatever I'm doing, as I lead an exciting life, and just her spending time with me in what I would normally do, suffices her and my frame.

Fact: I lose 5-10 hours a week spinning plates.

Let's go further:

I'm self-employed. My business generates 150 per hour. Great, right?! Wrong. My first 50 hours a week (200 hours monthly or 30k/monthly) is to service my monthly business and personal expenses. Every hour above 200 hours monthly is net savings. For me to save 120k a year, 150 pre-tax (with much R/E depreciation write-offs), I need to work 66 hours a week.

5-10 (average 7.5 hrs) hours a week in plate spinning costs me $1,125 weekly or $58,500 gross or $46,800 net per year in net savings. Going further I leverage commercial financing with 25% deposits, in areas in New York, where my due diligence shows that rents will increase over 300% in the next 20-25 years. Commercial real-estate (5 units+) are valued based on net operating income (rents-expenses), and thus all my R/E holdings in the next 20-25 years will appreciate a minimum of 300%. With 25% deposits on these assets, my rate of return (deposit/appreciation) is 1200% over 20-25 yrs (If anyone needs guidance in these type of plays, PM me).

Bottomline: Perpetual plate spinning costs me $46,800 per year, or $561,600 NPV per year. Plate spinning (for me) is stupid game.

All honesty people waste more than 5-10 hr a week on plates. For many its a 20-40hr a week JOB. In a real LTR she will assist and support your life plus hooking up for sex is simple as rolling over in bed.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Agree with Poon. None of these are benefits of a LTR. Built in support system? More time for hobbies? More frequent sex? One does not equate to the other in any situation.

Even If things get a little difficult for her, she will disappear and will tell everyone you are to blame you for the relationship.

The only benefit I think of is image. You may get invited to more places and parties with a girlfriend than as a single guy.

She has to be supportive and meet our needs or else we need to drop her.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

All honesty people waste more than 5-10 hr a week on plates. For many its a 20-40hr a week JOB. In a real LTR she will assist and support your life plus hooking up for sex is simple as rolling over in bed.

I'm extremely resourceful. When you work your SMV to the top of the curve, you save much time in courting/spinning/scheduling.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I'm extremely resourceful. When you work your SMV to the top of the curve, you save much time in courting/spinning/scheduling.

When SMV is maximized your the "hot girl" and they are wasting their time chasing you. Understood.

 

[BeTheChange]

I'm glad that you make this concession; specifically, that LTRs are hard work, and are thus not easy.

To the untrained eye, it could appear that those who entertain the harder roads are "morons," and the easy road of plate-spinning is ripe for the picking. Looking deeper, though, there is a trade-off. Why would some men purposefully choose an LTR, when with LTRs (as you said), "you get more drama, work, and obligations"?

Answer: There is a greater return (for me) in LTRs.

Example:
I delineated an example earlier in this thread demonstrating how my date weekend of 5 girls will take/has taken 10 hours of my time. During plate spinning, while a harem is in play, you still need to approach. In addition, to the approach. if you are keeping a harem of three women, you need to communicate and spend time with three women as opposed to one.

In LTRs, I spend little time dating. Generally, I will take the LTR along with whatever I'm doing, as I lead an exciting life, and just her spending time with me in what I would normally do, suffices her and my frame.

Fact: I lose 5-10 hours a week spinning plates.

Let's go further:

I'm self-employed. My business generates 150 per hour. Great, right?! Wrong. My first 50 hours a week (200 hours monthly or 30k/monthly) is to service my monthly business and personal expenses. Every hour above 200 hours monthly is net savings. For me to save 120k a year, 150 pre-tax (with much R/E depreciation write-offs), I need to work 66 hours a week.

5-10 (average 7.5 hrs) hours a week in plate spinning costs me $1,125 weekly or $58,500 gross or $46,800 net per year in net savings. Going further I leverage commercial financing with 25% deposits, in areas in New York, where my due diligence shows that rents will increase over 300% in the next 20-25 years. Commercial real-estate (5 units+) are valued based on net operating income (rents-expenses), and thus all my R/E holdings in the next 20-25 years will appreciate a minimum of 300%. With 25% deposits on these assets, my rate of return (deposit/appreciation) is 1200% over 20-25 yrs (If anyone needs guidance in these type of plays, PM me).

Bottomline: Perpetual plate spinning costs me $46,800 per year, or $561,600 NPV per year. Plate spinning (for me) is stupid game.

Sorry but this is quite frankly, retarded.

You could say this about ANY hobby or interest outside of work and I would argue that unless you are plate spinning during working hours you aren't really "losing" anything.

If you feel like you're making a substantial time commitment to spinning plates then you either need to up your value or reevaluate your approach.

I am seeing 3 plates at the moment and adding more is an ongoing process. I would say that overall I actually spend less time dealing with my plates than my previous LTR. Minimal texting and our dates are simply the time I allocate for entertainment during the week. No drama. No major issues. And if they become a cost rather than a benefit they simply get dropped. Where exactly is the waste in this?

Please stop turning your vice (need for a LTR) into a virtue. Spin it however you want but you're not fooling anyone.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Sorry but this is quite frankly, retarded.

You could say this about ANY hobby or interest outside of work and I would argue that unless you are plate spinning during working hours you aren't really "losing" anything.

If you feel like you're making a substantial time commitment to spinning plates then you either need to up your value or reevaluate your approach.

I am seeing 3 plates at the moment and adding more is an ongoing process. I would say that overall I actually spend less time dealing with my plates than my previous LTR. Minimal texting and our dates are simply the time I allocate for entertainment during the week. No drama. No major issues. And if they become a cost rather than a benefit they simply get dropped. Where exactly is the waste in this?

Please stop turning your vice (need for a LTR) into a virtue. Spin it however you want but you're not fooling anyone.

Let's see how "retarded" my contention is and speak logically.

How many hours do you spend each week communicating & spending time with, fvcking, commuting to your three plates plus (as plates do crash and have a shelf life) how many hours do you spend each week (on average, include time spent after plates crash if you don't recruit if harem is at full capacity) in securing and spending time with new recruits outside of your harem?

Let's break down this number. Be specific.

 

[zekko]

I'd like for you to cold approach in the street, then come back here and tell me that you never had to overcome any sort of inner-game issue.

A fair point, but it should be noted that you don't necessarily have to cold approach in the street in order to spin plates. Some people are just social and meet a lot of women. Street approaching offers its own excitements though.

Side story: The guy I know who does the most street approaches is probably one of the dumbest guys I know. I don't think it would even occur to him to have any anxiety. The fact that he's such a horndog overrides everything else.

 

[BeTheChange]

Let's see how "retarded" my contention is and speak logically.

How many hours do you spend each week communicating & spending time with, fvcking, commuting to your three plates plus (as plates do crash and have a shelf life) how many hours do you spend each week (on average, include time spent after plates crash if you don't recruit if harem is at full capacity) in securing and spending time with new recruits outside of your harem?

Let's break down this number. Be specific.

Women are entertainment to me. I enjoy them. I don't seek a relationship as you seem to. Tell me how much time you spend on entertainment each week and we can work from there.

This is redundant. I don't see women as an investment. That's the difference between us. Not everything in life needs to be productive. To me women are just another hobby like hitting the gym, playing ps4, reading a book or jamming on my guitar. And yes ****ing NEW woman is right up there with the best of things.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Women are entertainment to me. I enjoy them. I don't seek a relationship as you seem to. Tell me how much time you spend on entertainment each week and we can work from there.

This is redundant. I don't see women as an investment. That's the difference between us. Not everything in life needs to be productive. To me women are just another hobby like hitting the gym, playing ps4, reading a book or jamming on my guitar. And yes ****ing NEW woman is right up there with the best of things.

LOL. Diversion will not help you here, though I understand why you would attempt to divert.

The question posed by PoonKing was," What benefit(s) does an LTR/exclusivity provide over spinning plates?"

I answered, "Time saved," with a breakdown of my hours which equate to a ton of money. You contorted that my contention is "retarded." In response, I stated the following:

How many hours do you spend each week communicating & spending time with, fvcking, commuting to your three plates plus (as plates do crash and have a shelf life) how many hours do you spend each week (on average, include time spent after plates crash if you don't recruit if harem is at full capacity) in securing and spending time with new recruits outside of your harem?

Let's break down this number. Be specific.

Certainly if my contention is retarded, you can factually show this to me. I'm open to a counter. Hey, my experience shows unequivocally that spinning plates and harem retention/maintenance require more time than LTR maintenance. If you have a valid counter, not a baseless, bald, unsubstantiated denial, I am open to change my view.

BeChange, show me factually with numbers (give specific hours spent) how spinning plates and perpetual recruiting/maintaining harems require less time than LTR maintenance. I'm waiting...

 

[Poon King]

Let's see how "retarded" my contention is and speak logically.

How many hours do you spend each week communicating & spending time with, fvcking, commuting to your three plates plus (as plates do crash and have a shelf life) how many hours do you spend each week (on average, include time spent after plates crash if you don't recruit if harem is at full capacity) in securing and spending time with new recruits outside of your harem?

Let's break down this number. Be specific.

You're missing the point.

The question is this: WHY BE EXCLUSIVE?

Even if you have a steady LTR.. why is f*cking other women (when you get the opportunity) off the table? Why is it off the table? WHY? This is the one question no one can answer without sounding like a faggot.

Also.. I actually enjoy my "hours" with plates. If I didn't enjoy their company they wouldn't be plates. But why do I need to have just one? Most of my male friends are in LTRs and totally whipped. I see them occasionally. I no longer have an "entourage" to see movies with, hit the bars with, go clubbing with, travel with, etc. So when I want to do one of these activities I just take a plate. But why have just ONE?

 

[BeTheChange]

LOL. Diversion will not help you here, though I understand why you would attempt to divert.

The question posed by PoonKing was," What benefit(s) does an LTR/exclusivity provide over spinning plates?"

I answered, "Time saved," with a breakdown of my hours which equate to a ton of money. You contorted that my contention is "retarded." In response, I stated the following:



Certainly if my contention is retarded, you can factually show this to me. I'm open to a counter. Hey, my experience shows unequivocally that spinning plates and harem retention/maintenance require more time than LTR maintenance. If you have a valid counter, not a baseless, bald, unsubstantiated denial, I am open to change my view.

BeChange, show me factually with numbers (give specific hours spent) how spinning plates and perpetual recruiting/maintaining harems require less time than LTR maintenance. I'm waiting...

What benefit would eating the same stale meal everyday provide just because it's right near your house and you "save time", over going to a different buffet with numerous dishes across town?

You are attempting to restrict the criteria to suit your argument. That isn't going to work with me. I value variety and freedom. That in itself is a benefit I deem worth of whatever "time cost" you choose to allocate towards spinning plates.

Now if you've got yourself a low maintenance LTR and she turns a blind eye to you fvcking other women then fair enough. But this isn't what we are discussing.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

The question is this: WHY BE EXCLUSIVE?

Actually, you don't have to be exclusive but you have to give the guise of exclusivity. But I don't double play, when I say that I am exclusive, I am.

Why agree to exclusivity (whether or not you act on it) is the more important question? Without an overt understanding of exclusivity, the mode relation for most women will fall between (she will eject in) 2-3 months. Mode means the number that frequents most often. Sure, you may have one plate that runs for six months, but the mode remains 2-3 months? Do we agree on this number?

With motivation to further this discussion, do we also agree that more time is spent spinning plates and perpetual recruiting/maintaining harems than LTR maintenance?

An LTR lasts (for me) on average three years. Do we agree that an average exclusive LTR lasts 2-3 years? If not, give me your numbers.

Let's keep this discussion factual.

BeChange, diversion again?

 

[Poon King]

Actually, you don't have to be exclusive but you have to give the guise of exclusivity. But I don't double play, when I say that I am exclusive, I am.

Why agree to exclusivity (whether or not you act on it) is the more important question? Without an overt understanding of exclusivity, the mode relation for most women will fall between (she will eject in) 2-3 months. Mode means the number that frequents most often. Sure, you may have one plate that runs for six months, but the mode remains 2-3 months? Do we agree on this number?

This is generally true. The question is who cares and why does it matter?

With motivation to further this discussion, do we also agree that more time is spent spinning plates and perpetual recruiting/maintaining harems than LTR maintenance?

Depends. There are two ways to spin plates:

1. All plates are basically on equal footing and get equal time
2. You have one "top plate" which is basically a girlfriend and booty calls on the side for when she gets uppity, moody, manipulative, etc.

If you're talking about #1 then I agree. If you're talking about #2 then I disagree.

An LTR lasts (for me) on average three years. Do we agree that an average exclusive LTR lasts 2-3 years? If not, give me your numbers.

6 months to 3 years is more accurate.

If your only argument is you save "time" by having a LTR... that's not a good selling point since a man's time and how he spends it is 100% his decision anyway. If I want to focus on some goal I can drop two plates and have one booty call for when I get horny. Then recruit new plates when I have the time again.

You can't really take "vacations" from LTR's without drama and bullsh!t. Its easy to drop plates (usually) or disappear for a few weeks and come back when you're ready.

Plates > LTR's

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

This is generally true. The question is who cares and why does it matter?

I showed you factually in Post 93 how an extra 7.5 hours each week costs me over 1/2 mil a year (NPV). Reason enough?

If your only argument is you save "time" by having a LTR... that's not a good selling point since a man's time and how he spends it is 100% his decision anyway. If I want to focus on some goal I can drop two plates and have one booty call for when I get horny. Then recruit new plates when I have the time again.

And here is the crux of my position. If you are in need of time all the time, your one booty call will fall off in 2-3 months. Then again, you will have to reignite the process of building a harem, which requires time.

This position here:

You have one "top plate" which is basically a girlfriend and booty calls on the side for when she gets uppity, moody, manipulative, etc.

requires more time than LTR, as one top plate is the same as one LTR; the distinction is your top plate will likely fall off in 2-3 months, and then again, you have to reignite the harem.

Certainly, absent of factual numbers, as I previously delineated, no one here could factually deny my claim that harems require more time than LTRs.

 

[Poon King]

And here is the crux of my position. If you are in need of time all the time, your one booty call will fall off in 2-3 months. Then again, you will have to reignite the process of building a harem, which requires time.

This position here:

requires more time than LTR, as one top plate is the same as one LTR; the distinction is your top plate will likely fall off in 2-3 months, and then again, you have to reignite the harem.

Certainly, absent of factual numbers, as I previously delineated, no one here could factually deny my claim that harems require more time than LTRs.

You act like all this crap is carved in stone. Makes me wonder about your true level of experience spinning plates. Its not that "absolute" all the time.

Not too long ago I had a "girlfriend" who lived in another city. I saw her once a week to go out and f*ck. ANOTHER CITY. She was a plate and she didn't even know it. I was f*cking other women during the week.

Sometimes I think a lot of you clowns just don't know how to play this game.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

You act like all this crap is carved in stone.

When you formulate strategy, you need to works with certain facts that you have at hand (either direct or experiential) to choose the best course of action which benefits you. Do you postulate opinions based on abstractions?

If you have extra time then go at it and have fun. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of time.

 

[fastlife]

Respectfully disagree its not all about being open and comfortable sexually.
When u truly love and care for a woman and it is reciprocated, that emotional spiritual and physical connection its levels and levels above a ONS with an open and comfortable *****.

Ive been there, plenty of those and they are fun but they are not fulfilling on that deep connection.

When u experience it u will know.

U find yourself fapping to ur woman not to porn or other girls. No lie.

The way you begin to feel about a woman once you truly love & care about her is only a change in perception, which is just Thoughts X Emotions. The change in perception happens on a chemical level--Dopamine and Oxytocin--but also on the psychological level that you value more highly things you've invested in.

I've experienced it.

But your Thoughts & Emotions (Perception) are things you can control. They aren't dependent on whatever girl in question.

 

[BeExcellent]

An LTR with the right woman can do quite a lot for a man. But you need to pick the right woman. The right woman can provide the following:

-Access to her social network and the ability to increase your social and business network, especially if said woman is both hot and smart. A socially adroit alluring woman is a valuable accessory to a man and she knows it.

When you are with a socially adroit woman it garners respect, social proof and credibility to the man. Men love it when every head turns to admire the woman he walks into an event with. Women with that level of social calibration aren't sitting on every bar stool or walking down every street. High value men benefit in having a beautiful, elegant, intelligent woman in his company. She is at once an asset, an accessory and if she is charming, disarming to others. She can gather information for her man he may not otherwise have access to and the information can benefit him.

-She is restorative to him. How this presents itself will depend based upon an individual man's needs. She will care for him and help him and attend to details in his life that therefore no longer require his time and effort.

-Provides depth of connection, sexual fulfillment (this is different from the sex act itself), love, emotional support, companionship and authenticity in his life. The more successful you become the more you value authenticity, or the absence of BS. Shysters are every where wanting to relieve you of your hard earned gains.

-She makes his life more efficient by taking things off his plate so he can concentrate on his life goals, business, creative pursuits, financial pursuits, etc.

Basically the LTR can add value for a man who understands the time value of money as well as the expansive value of additional mental and social resources that can increase fortunes for the man in question. @guru1000 actually actively screens for this characteristic in a woman. It is rare to find an available alluring woman who has this kind of finesse. Beauty alone is much easier to find.

Women like this understand the value they bring to the table. The value is without exception more than just looks. They will play "girl game" as some here put it and require investment and patience and perhaps exclusivity before they are willing to share everything they have to offer. They are at a high SMV position.

Male or female, those with much to offer have much to select from. Male or female, high SMV people do not as a general rule accept "plate" status unless it serves their own agenda to do so. Otherwise they won't accept plate status because they don't need to. I can tell you and some of the high value men around here can tell you, that finding a person who is particularly well matched is unusual. And so warrants more in depth analysis.

These are not people whom you simply discard any more than you'd discard a gold coin...unless of course you do not recognize or value the gold coin, but that isn't the gold coin's problem is it?

Lots of the men here simply do not have access a.k.a. enough value themselves to attract this kind of woman. Just because a person hasn't experienced it doesn't mean it isn't out there.

In other words the man doesn't have enough of his own ambition/goals/passions/agenda to warrant consideration by top women. Top women want to get on board with someone and help him get there. Top women will sacrifice things that would otherwise benefit them to help top men achieve their goals. Nancy Reagan was a great example of this. If a man isn't going anywhere in life the best women don't look twice at him. Why on Earth would they? They have tons of other (better) options! I contend that while the market is certainly slanted generally, it is just fine in the upper eschelons.

Get into the upper eschelons and the market issues are *poof* gone. Just like that.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

BE, did you just hijack my thoughts? Seriously

 

[exhausted]

The way you begin to feel about a woman once you truly love & care about her is only a change in perception, which is just Thoughts X Emotions. The change in perception happens on a chemical level--Dopamine and Oxytocin--but also on the psychological level that you value more highly things you've invested in.

I've experienced it.

But your Thoughts & Emotions (Perception) are things you can control. They aren't dependent on whatever girl in question.

I understand neurotransmitters, their functions and how they are stimulated/react.
Thoughts and emotions have an effect on neurotransmitters sure.

Not sure what u mean by perception as if it isn't an honest interpretation.

My perception of falling for a girl i have only been seeing for a month is much different to my perception of a woman i love with my soul , think as my reaction to if the first girl was raped my response would sure be upset,stunned, disgusted , suppoorting her while the police handled it, but if it was a girl i loved for years with all my soul after comforting her and caring for her i would seek out the guy and break his back. At least. Literally.
Not all people have to respond that drastically but my point remains its not just a perspective of deep love and connection but truly a deep connection to where i suffer the excruciating pain and hurt along with her.

If that makes sense.

So my perception would not be eaily controllable