Many women dont want Alpha

[Tenacity]

We have been told that becoming "alpha" will lead to success with women. Alpha meaning achieving financial, physical and emotional stability. This is no longer true for American men. Being alpha may be counterproductive. Women are only attracted to alpha when they grow up with an alpha role model, and when they have self love. Without these two requirements a woman will not gravitate towards alpha. She may be sexual with him, but she will fear having a relationship with him and run away.

I'm GLAD someone else is noticing this.

I've been having debates with Deesade about his narrative of ALPHA DNA. He believes broke, dusty, convicted, unemployed, illiterate, thugs, are ALPHA males...... when I continue to try to point out to him that they are not alpha males...they are the true BETA males, as the women are usually calling the shots within those relationships.

The real ALPHAs (those who have true power in the form of resources and community/industry position, not pseudo power like "swag") a lot of times scare off women of this market because due to Feminism, many women are trying to compete for TRUE POWER. Women want true power and want men to focus on pseudo power (swag).

A lot of women I've dated have come over to my place, seen all my degrees, and were jealous of me. As a MAN, how dare I be doing better than her?

 

[Young OG]

He believes broke, dusty, convicted, unemployed, illiterate, thugs, are ALPHA males

I feel that the women that like these kind of men are attracted to bad boys and danger, but not attracted to them because they think they are alpha. Some might act Alpha, but they are really just wearing a alpha mask that will eventually come off...

 

[Tenacity]

I feel that the women that like these kind of men are attracted to bad boys and danger, but not attracted to them because they think they are alpha. Some might act Alpha, but they are really just wearing a alpha mask that will eventually come off...

I totally agree, but I would go as far as saying they aren't "bad boys" either. They literally are just losers. Women who get off on RUNNING THE SHOW will deliberately pick these men because they know they can get off on running the show. Now this isn't to say the loser is completely unattractive, he might have decent looks and/or a decent personality, but his finances are horrible.

To put it another way, women who like RUNNING THE SHOW, will have two choices:

Dude A: A man with degrees, makes a lot of money, holds respectable positions, isn't a push-over, has backbone, is confident, and is "at least decently attractive" looks and personality wise.

Dude B: Broke, dusty, loser, with a jail record. Is "at least decently attractive" looks and personality wise.

This chick in particular will pick Dude B to be in a relationship with, even though she will do ONS with Dude A. But let people like Deesade tell it, it's Dude A that's the "beta male" smh.

 

[Wilko]

I think this might be the best conversation on the forum at the moment.

Here's a question - who are the feminists, SJWs, and assorted left-wing miscreants fvcking? I've been screening them out from the start, so it's not me.

And moreover, what happens when they get what they say they want in a man? What do those relationships look like, how long do they last?

 

[Pandora]

I would be careful with the black and white thinking, it's classed in CBT as an error in thinking. For example stating "This is why women don't like you going to the gym when they are in a relationship with you" as if it was a universal truth.

What you've written above has simply not been my experience. It is so far from the experience that I'm living right now that it's laughable. She gets overly concerned if I miss muay thai as she knows what it gives me and the relationship I have with the people there. I would say I have been a positive influence to a lot of women. She, like other ex's have taken up running amongst other things because of me. Now this one I'm seeing has stated to me that she kind of dominated her ex's. She said she pushed and after a while they usually just gave in and of course she lost respect. This is not happening with me so there is no loss of respect leading to resentment which could manifest as "jealousy". Is this what's happening with you??

Granted I see you've stated "modern American women". I'm not American neither do I live in America.

I also see a lot of mind reading in your post (another error of thinking in CBT). You claim you know what they are thinking and the reasons behind it. Are you sure you're not projecting your own insecurities and fears? and perhaps your perception is clouded by negative past experience?

Yes my brother I am sure i am not projecting my insecurities. Other guys like Tenacity are confirming what i am saying. You are blessed by not being in America. I am sure the women where you are from are still sane and feminine. Many American women are totally brainwashed. They are taught to compete with men. So they find accomplishments intimidating unless they directly benefit from the accomplishments. I will give a couple trivial examples.

Example #1: Many American women will go back into the house and change if you step out looking better dressed and more attractive than they are. They are jealous of you and dont want you to be the more attractive one in the relationship. Its a running joke here in America. Many women will joke around and tell you that they hate when a guy dresses better than them. Not because its effeminate, but because she feels like he becomes out of her league.

Example #2: American women will challenge you on intellectual topics. If you get the best of them they will feel a sense of envy and intimidation. They are so used to men being portrayed as idiots that they cant fathom that some men are smarter.

Example #3: if you date a chubby girl and you start to work out and become hot without her she will start to resent that. This is common. Read these links.

https://www.reddit.com/r/relationsh...y32m_girlfriend31f_doesnt_want_me_to_workout/

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120304132006AANBoSy

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=164474261

 

[Pandora]

I'm GLAD someone else is noticing this.

A lot of women I've dated have come over to my place, seen all my degrees, and were jealous of me. As a MAN, how dare I be doing better than her?

Yeh bro. I have noticed this exactly. Once they see your degrees you can actually notice when their attitude changes to one of intimidation, insecurity and resentment. Its insane. They should be attracted to this but they run away from it. People dont believe me when i say this happens. Glad u noticed it too.

 

[Reykhel]

I'm GLAD someone else is noticing this.

I've been having debates with Deesade about his narrative of ALPHA DNA. He believes broke, dusty, convicted, unemployed, illiterate, thugs, are ALPHA males...... when I continue to try to point out to him that they are not alpha males...they are the true BETA males, as the women are usually calling the shots within those relationships.

The real ALPHAs (those who have true power in the form of resources and community/industry position, not pseudo power like "swag") a lot of times scare off women of this market because due to Feminism, many women are trying to compete for TRUE POWER. Women want true power and want men to focus on pseudo power (swag).

A lot of women I've dated have come over to my place, seen all my degrees, and were jealous of me. As a MAN, how dare I be doing better than her?

You're probably not far off it with regards to "the real alphas". Although I do actually feel the whole alpha beta debate is an unfortunate black and white view of masculinity. Of course everybody on this site is going to class themselves as alpha simply by their own definition.

But doesn't what you and pandora say run contrary to hypergamy? Doesn't hypergamy say she feels entitled to a superior mate?

 

[Reykhel]

how do you know that she got jealous upon seeing your degree? How do you know this was the
resane that she dumped you?

Did she actually say "wow, I'm intimidated by your degrees and every jealous. I'm done"?

Are have you interpreted her behavior as such? She dumps you and you think "it must be my degrees! she's intimidated by
my six back! the jealous hussy!"

Do you brag about your accomplishments? Do you bore her with tales about how your finances are amazing? Do you put her asleep by
reciting how many calories you consume in a day and how your body fat is down to 7%? Do you get your self worth from your accomplishments?

Do you tell her about the state of the market? Has she ever yawned in your company?

It seems to go against what's generally said about hypergamy.

 

[Pandora]

@Pandora

I I have, however, heard of situations where a girl who isn't emotionally invested yet will feel like she isn't up to par, which will make dating her slightly more difficult. But still, these aren't good enough reasons for me not to increase my financial and social status.

Yeh thats what i am saying. These girls dont feel up to par because they are comparing themselves to men. They also don't feel up to par because they are they know that you will be out of their league. They have self esteem issues. When you lack self love you get envious over stupid stuff. So this is why many girls date down. Water seeks its own level. They have told me this out of their own mouth. Women fear criticism and rejection more than anything else in this world. They do anything to avoid it. Even if it means dating down.

 

[Pandora]

how do you know that she got jealous upon seeing your degree? How do you know this was the
resane that she dumped you?

Did she actually say "wow, I'm intimidated by your degrees and every jealous. I'm done"?

Are have you interpreted her behavior as such? She dumps you and you think "it must be my degrees! she's intimidated by
my six back! the jealous hussy!"

Do you brag about your accomplishments? Do you bore her with tales about how your finances are amazing? Do you put her asleep by
reciting how many calories you consume in a day and how your body fat is down to 7%? Do you get your self worth from your accomplishments?

Do you tell her about the state of the market? Has she ever yawned in your company?

It seems to go against what's generally said about hypergamy.

Hey Reykhel did you see my post when i gave you links with examples of women getting jealous when their men are working out? This should be some evidence of the inner workings of some American women.

 

[Pandora]

It seems to go against what's generally said about hypergamy.

Reykhel not everything taught in the manosphere is gospel. There are so many things in this world that are more complicated than what we were taught. You are right it does go against hypergamy. American women are not natural. They are an aberration of nature. Women are usually hypergamous when they have a father that raised them well. They look up to the standard of leadership that their father set and generally try to find that in men. Many American women dont have strong fathers and have a culture that encourages dating dysfunctional loser men. This is why they tend to date down. Now the girls from small towns with good families do not exhibit this behavior very much. They are very hypergamous. But how many women come from traditional households in America. American fathers are so damn weak. I am going to make a post on that next.

 

[Pandora]

Intruiging perspectives expressed in this thread.

I'm not concerned if "alpha" is counterproductive to certain women. In my mind, I want nothing to do with a woman who seems at odds with my being being physically/financially/emotionally sound.

True indeed. Thats the mindset i am starting to cultivate. Almost there.

 

[Pandora]

That's one concept I don't understand. I get dumped or dump and don't date or spin plates for months/year or so I can work on my game, increase SMV, read more books, journal, work on maturity and accomplishments outside of dating. When I'm finally ready to date again, I should theoretically attract a woman closer to my SMV. Somehow, I'm still attracting the hypergamous women with low interest levels.

Bro becuase the women you get only very loosely correlates with your SMV. This is because many women cant recognize a valuable man. They are fundamentally warped in what they look for. Now if you started hanging out with traditional women, they you will see the correlation more directly. You will have success. Many American women are garbage so they cant recognize a good thing. You recognize and value what you are as a person. If you are low self esteem and have no self respect, how can you value a man that is a good thing. Many women have told me out of their very mouths that they date down because they lacked self love and confidence. This is the same reason why average guys do not approach hot chicks. Same thing.

 

[Tenacity]

But doesn't what you and pandora say run contrary to hypergamy? Doesn't hypergamy say she feels entitled to a superior mate?

This goes back to the discussion I had with Guru in this thread here.

Guru makes the argument that women are still operating from a biological/natural imperative, which is to seek out men who appear to be able to provide and protect.....going based on the biological/natural process of:

Man = Stronger, wiser, smarter, faster, etc. than a woman

Woman = Weaker, dumber, slower, etc., than a man

Thus if we are going based on a biological/natural imperative, then hypergamy is at play at all times.

...............However, MY ARGUMENT is that social conditioning, programming, and other cultural influences have taken the driver's seat away from biological/natural imperatives. This is to say that today's women are NOT operating based on their biological/natural imperative, they are operating based on social conditioning!

And the Social Condition of today is based on Gynocentrism and Feminism, which is to say women are equal or better than men in all areas. This means that in every sense of the word, today's women ACT like MEN! It's why you have at least 70% of today's women being bisexual or straight lesbian, it's why you have in the black community a straight matriarchy where the black woman runs the household and runs the show, with the black man playing the supportive role.

And it's why you will have women see a guy like Tenacity that's stronger, wiser, smarter, faster, etc., than her and instead of her SUBMITTING to Tenacity by operating on her biological/natural imperative, she BUCKS that imperative in favor of her social conditioning and gets pisses off that Tenacity is actually doing better than her. Because again....how DARE Tenacity as a man (and a black man at that) be doing better than her??

 

[Tenacity]

how do you know that she got jealous upon seeing your degree? How do you know this was the
resane that she dumped you?

Because it's common knowledge if you just pay attention to what women are doing. I even rant about my Mother on this forum, understand my Mother does the same thing. She's jealous of me as well.

Do you brag about your accomplishments? Do you bore her with tales about how your finances are amazing? Do you put her asleep by
reciting how many calories you consume in a day and how your body fat is down to 7%? Do you get your self worth from your accomplishments?

I'm c0cky/arrogant, so yes I talk shyt and brag. So what? If your theory of hypergamy were still in operation today it wouldn't matter lol.

And in regards to if I get my self-worth from my accomplishments, yes! Not to say that my intrinsic value absent of my accomplishments isn't note-worthy, but we live in a competitive society. My feelings of success, accomplishment, etc., come from being successful and hitting my goals. If I were a LOSER....no, I wouldn't feel proud of myself at all.

 

[Reykhel]

Because it's common knowledge if you just pay attention to what women are doing. I even rant about my Mother on this forum, understand my Mother does the same thing. She's jealous of me as well.



I'm c0cky/arrogant, so yes I talk shyt and brag. So what? If your theory of hypergamy were still in operation today it wouldn't matter lol.

And in regards to if I get my self-worth from my accomplishments, yes! Not to say that my intrinsic value absent of my accomplishments isn't note-worthy, but we live in a competitive society. My feelings of success, accomplishment, etc., come from being successful and hitting my goals. If I were a LOSER....no, I wouldn't feel proud of myself at all.

So what? The more likely scenario going by the image that you portray here, is that you put women off by your whiny attention seeking boastful behavior and you've deluding yourself into thinking that your "degrees" made them jealous . (how would the situation arise where you show off your degrees to your POF women in any case, beats me)

If you were a loser......but you're not, right? You're a winner alpha..........an alpha who's definition just happens to fit your made up criteria.....

.....just as, Dessade as you mentioned, is an alpha simply because he fits the definition of his own made up criteria.............But of the loser type in your perception........

Where there's perception there's deception.....

Lot of self-deception here.........

 

[Tenacity]

So what? The more likely scenario going by the image that you portray here, is that you put women off by your whiny attention seeking boastful behavior

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. In MY opinion, I share my life experiences, debate/call out what I think doesn't make sense, and go on about my business like everybody else. You don't have to respond to any post I make, you can always put me on ignore if that's what you believe is best.

But attention seeking? On Sosuave? Exactly WHOSE attention am I seeking on here lol? How do you seek the attention of anonymous people? I don't even know who most of you are lol.

I don't seek attention, I attract attention because:

- Either guys can relate to what I say on here because they are going through the same bullshyt in their personal lives (such as anger issues, seeing the market as fvcked up, etc.)

- Or, guys see my progress in terms of finances, fitness, etc., and want to achieve their own goals.

- Or, guys are jealous that I've achieved shyt in life and they are still struggling. I notice YOU keep mentioning my low bodyfat, degrees, and finances, are you jealous there Reykhel lol? Because I don't remember boasting about any of that on this thread.

....and you've deluding yourself into thinking that your "degrees" made them jealous . (how would the situation arise where you show off your degrees to your POF women in any case, beats me)

On POF, OKC, etc, there's a section where you list your education. Also in your "profile message" section you can list out what you are about, things you've accomplished, etc. That's where the education stuff is listed. Of course I mention my 4 degrees, show shirtless pics, car pics, talk about the industry I work in, etc. Why? Because it WORKS! Having money/being financially stable is an attraction booster and if you have the "stuff", then display it. Who gives a fvck if someone thinks it's "boasting"? People who usually think that are the ones who secretly wish they had something to "boast" about.

If you were a loser......but you're not, right? You're a winner alpha..........an alpha who's definition just happens to fit your made up criteria.....

.....just as, Dessade as you mentioned, is an alpha simply because he fits the definition of his own made up criteria.............But of the loser type in your perception........

Where there's perception there's deception.....

Lot of self-deception here.........

I've always said I don't believe in the cartoon character labels of alpha or beta, because NO MAN is one-dimensional like that. I have aspects of ALPHA and BETA, depending on the situation. I don't know how the hell you guys manage/succeed with women being 100% Alpha or Beta, it takes a balanced approach of both characteristics. There are times when you lead, put your foot down, be more aggressive, etc., then there's times when you need to STFU, lay back, chill out, and take a more passive position.

But because most of you guys live in a Manosphere fantasy, cartoon land, you keep promoting and regurgitating bullshyt that you heard someone else say, but you pass it off as if it's your own material.

Say what you want about Tenacity, but ALL of my commentary is 100% original. You can't say I sound like anybody else on this board.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

I think the OP is wrong. I dont think there is a woman on the planet who thinks "gee I wish my man was less confidently masculine, less motivated, less attractive physically and more unhealthy" If they are saying that it is either a **** test or they are a toxic ***** trying to bring you down.
Being "alpha" to get women to like you is an oxymoron.
Be a confident masculine person because it is a better way to be.

 

[SkrooU]

We have been told that becoming "alpha" will lead to success with women. Alpha meaning achieving financial, physical and emotional stability. This is no longer true for American men. Being alpha may be counterproductive. Women are only attracted to alpha when they grow up with an alpha role model, and when they have self love. Without these two requirements a woman will not gravitate towards alpha. She may be sexual with him, but she will fear having a relationship with him and run away.

The first group of women are women that did not have an alpha role model for a father. These can be described as dominant women. They often are feminist and have been brainwashed by western society. They have a "go girl" attitude and view men as dumb. These women do not gravitate towards men that they can not boss around. If the alphas opinion conflicts with her worldview, then the alpha is not a suitable partner. They will become physical with an alpha because they still become aroused by them but they will not date the alpha. They will run away.

The second group is the self esteem issue group. Many women have told me that they have self esteem issues. This caused them in the past to date men that are below them. Below them meaning that these men were inferior financially, physically and socially. They were attracted to these type of men because these men needed saving. These women could feel good about themselves. They felt superior to these men and were in control. These women lack self love. Their self esteems are low so they get very intimidated by men that have a lot going for them. Yes they are still physically aroused by alpha traits but they will run away from the alpha ( usually after sex). This leaves the alpha wondering where he went wrong.

As i have progressed financially, emotionally and physically i have noticed that my sexual partners have decreased. More specifically the women that are willing to stick around has decreased. I had more girls that stuck around when i lived with my parents. One girls actually told me " if you get this promotion i cant be with you. It will be too much. You will be the complete package." This girl was cute, but had self esteem issues and constantly dated down. Many of my female friends have opened up to me and confirmed this observation. What do you guys think?

Seems complete opposite of my experiences, possibly because the definition of "alpha" has different meanings to some people. Alpha vs beta is mostly about a man's tendency to be a follower or, if not a leader, then at least be independent. There are so many ways this can play out. A lot has to do with having a rebellious side but knowing when it's a good time to use it.
Generally I've found that women want financial security above all else. This is why they settle with beta males. You can be very alpha and pull pu$$y well, but you'll have a hard time keeping a quality woman around. Hell, even a low quality woman will ultimately ditch you for a beta provider depending on the situation. Ideally, you'll be an alpha with money that let's your woman know you can have your pick at women, but you're "giving her a chance" to be "your girl". If you're just a beta provider, she'll cheat or leave you and take your money and heart out through your balls.

 

[Reykhel]

Hey Reykhel did you see my post when i gave you links with examples of women getting jealous when their men are working out? This should be some evidence of the inner workings of some American women.

It depends what way you look at it...

I saw whiny men writing in to complain about their bad girlfriends that they don't know how to control......
I saw an inability to maintain frame. I saw a faulty selection process

There are many that will say spinning plates is the best method for eventually finding a LTR. You've got to mould the best candidate
into YOUR FRAME.

There are low self esteem, trashy insecure women everywhere. If you enter a LTR with such women (as your posters did in your above "evidence") that's your fault. That's your faulty selection process.

Our maybe when you rely on outside achievements for your intrinsic value and sense of self worth, you are lacking depth on an inner level and this transmits itself through your dealings with people. What happens if you lose all of your outer trappings? (which happens, and has happened recently to a poster) You are left with what? If all of your worth depends on your outside trappings and you lose it all you are left with nothing. Why do you think some people blow their brains out when they suffer a financial loss (for example) and yet there are others who can pick themselves up and start again from scratch.

Happiness (high self esteem) and success (achieving a goal) need to be considered as two separate lines. But so often you'll see, that these lines are crossed and many a person's happiness becomes dependent on their (definition of) success. Also many people play the conditional happiness game......."when I achieve .......blah blah......then I will allow myself to be happy"

In my opinion, outside achievements are simply when a goal is achieved. If we cannot be happy now, as Victor Frankl suggests, regardless of our circumstances, we won't be happy in the future (when we achieve our goal)

I believe in the INSIDE OUT approach, as suggested by Stephen Covey.

What I've been alluding to, is that perhaps it is something else that has been turning these women off ......suggesting TAKING RESPONSIBILITY INSTEAD OF THROWING OUT BLAME...

RESPONSIBILITY YOU HAVE CONTROL BUT WITH BLAME YOU ARE THE VICTIM

(a reason why I like Dante / Beige Phillip, he suggest this in his rules of game)

Take @Tenacity for example......his response that maybe his boastful behavior (amongst other things) turns women off:
"those that say it's boastful behavior usually wish they had something to boast about"

Really? You see.......defensive behavior. It's the other person's fault (victim mentality). Never once looking within . Never once thinking "hmm could there be something in my personality or behavior that's turning certain women off"

No. LIKE A FVCKING CHILD "ha you're only saying boastful because you wish you had something to boast about!! Nah nah nah nah"

Incapable of introspection. Incapable of humility. Incapable of internal growth.

I think if you were to pick up any book on social theory, charm, etiquette, diplomacy...etc you will find that most people admire confidence but regard boasting as distasteful and boring.

It shows a lack of social awareness and emotional intelligence.