Many women dont want Alpha

[Pandora]

We have been told that becoming "alpha" will lead to success with women. Alpha meaning achieving financial, physical and emotional stability. This is no longer true for American men. Being alpha may be counterproductive. Women are only attracted to alpha when they grow up with an alpha role model, and when they have self love. Without these two requirements a woman will not gravitate towards alpha. She may be sexual with him, but she will fear having a relationship with him and run away.

The first group of women are women that did not have an alpha role model for a father. These can be described as dominant women. They often are feminist and have been brainwashed by western society. They have a "go girl" attitude and view men as dumb. These women do not gravitate towards men that they can not boss around. If the alphas opinion conflicts with her worldview, then the alpha is not a suitable partner. They will become physical with an alpha because they still become aroused by them but they will not date the alpha. They will run away.

The second group is the self esteem issue group. Many women have told me that they have self esteem issues. This caused them in the past to date men that are below them. Below them meaning that these men were inferior financially, physically and socially. They were attracted to these type of men because these men needed saving. These women could feel good about themselves. They felt superior to these men and were in control. These women lack self love. Their self esteems are low so they get very intimidated by men that have a lot going for them. Yes they are still physically aroused by alpha traits but they will run away from the alpha ( usually after sex). This leaves the alpha wondering where he went wrong.

As i have progressed financially, emotionally and physically i have noticed that my sexual partners have decreased. More specifically the women that are willing to stick around has decreased. I had more girls that stuck around when i lived with my parents. One girls actually told me " if you get this promotion i cant be with you. It will be too much. You will be the complete package." This girl was cute, but had self esteem issues and constantly dated down. Many of my female friends have opened up to me and confirmed this observation. What do you guys think?

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

What your saying is women have been mis-educated. It is the mission of the man to re-educate her.... As in lead her out from the labyrinth into the sunny light of day.

 

[Reykhel]

Some people get into the whole learning about game and self development perhaps with the intention of attracting a certain type of woman or even with the hidden intention of "winning back" a certain woman. But what you'll find is the more you evolve and develop from within, you'll find that the women that perhaps you were once interested in and that were once interested in you, no longer hold any interest.......

......there is simply not the same desire that the old you who started this journey once had....

...You've elevated your taste in trolls.

Also, I feel the level of your masculine maturity will determine the level of woman you attract into your life....

As far as the whole "alpha" "beta" debate, it's simply something that's too black and white

 

[PantyWhisperer]

We have been told that becoming "alpha" will lead to success with women. Alpha meaning achieving financial, physical and emotional stability. This is no longer true for American men. Being alpha may be counterproductive. Women are only attracted to alpha when they grow up with an alpha role model, and when they have self love. Without these two requirements a woman will not gravitate towards alpha. She may be sexual with him, but she will fear having a relationship with him and run away.

The second group is the self esteem issue group. Many women have told me that they have self esteem issues. This caused them in the past to date men that are below them. Below them meaning that these men were inferior financially, physically and socially. They were attracted to these type of men because these men needed saving. These women could feel good about themselves. They felt superior to these men and were in control. These women lack self love. Their self esteems are low so they get very intimidated by men that have a lot going for them. Yes they are still physically aroused by alpha traits but they will run away from the alpha ( usually after sex). This leaves the alpha wondering where he went wrong.

As i have progressed financially, emotionally and physically i have noticed that my sexual partners have decreased. More specifically the women that are willing to stick around has decreased. I had more girls that stuck around when i lived with my parents. One girls actually told me " if you get this promotion i cant be with you. It will be too much. You will be the complete package." This girl was cute, but had self esteem issues and constantly dated down. Many of my female friends have opened up to me and confirmed this observation. What do you guys think?

I think you make a great point. I know of one such woman who dates down and I can never figure out why, but she's a perfect fit for your self esteem group. To a tee.

 

[resilient]

...what you'll find is the more you evolve and develop from within, you'll find that the women that perhaps you were once interested in and that were once interested in you, no longer hold any interest.......

This reminds of a Men's Breakup Coach podcast episode I listened to last year while I was going through separation from my near ten year LTR. The host, Sergei interviews a UK dating coach Tori Ufandu, a master NLP practitioner.

Anyway, the line that stood out in the interview was that after a guy gets dumped a few times and his heart toughens up, he begins to look at women differently. The one's he was attracted to before, won't necessarily be the same one he's attracted to next time or will "allow" himself to be attracted to. That, supposively, he learns to spot the "wounded" ones in a bar, venue and won't necessarily chat her up if he's in a mindset for a LTR. If the guy wants a quick lay, or STR, then game on. Vulnerability, low self-esteem, often enough are the easier ones to game for a brief hook up, less resistance, in general.....

Getting back to the bar, venue scenario.... The guy may become perceptive enough to pick up on her body language and facial expression to recognize if she has low esteem or is going to be bad for him. It's kind of like how women are scanning the room, having conversations and judging if the man will be able to provide for her, masculinity, attractive, wealth, status, social proof, etc.

......there is simply not the same desire that the old you who started this journey once had....

I'm still trying not to attract the attention wh0res/low self-esteem ones. That hasn't worked out yet for me. So I must still be displaying/conveying some kind of beta frame, white knight, or some other persona that doesn't show enough masculine maturity yet.......

Also, I feel the level of your masculine maturity will determine the level of woman you attract into your life....

That's one concept I don't understand. I get dumped or dump and don't date or spin plates for months/year or so I can work on my game, increase SMV, read more books, journal, work on maturity and accomplishments outside of dating. When I'm finally ready to date again, I should theoretically attract a woman closer to my SMV. Somehow, I'm still attracting the hypergamous women with low interest levels.

 

[The Duke]

There is some truth to what was mentioned. I know a few girls that definitely seek out weak beta men that don't pose a threat, can be controlled, and manipulated. But I don't see any that are happy long term. Both are clueless about relationship roles. So if any of you think this is the way to do it then play that beta role, see how long she stay's happy and more importantly yourself.

Just this past weekend I had 2 girls in my social circle telling me how they have a hard time finding "manly" men.

This is what happens when you have a society where single mommies raise little boys that grow up to be beta chumps. This is what happens when you don't have strong male personalities in Hollywood like you did pre 1990, there is no positive male influence to shape the people. Even male musicians aren't very strong male personalities like they once were.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Whether or not a large percentage of women don't like "alpha" really isn't much of an issue.

It all boils down to sorting. Meet as many women as you can, increase how quickly you can disqualify them, and continue to look until you find one that meets your criteria.

Just like most people are fat and addicted to unhealthy, processed food, there are plenty of people purposely eating healthy.

Your job is to find a women that isn't addicted to beta-supplicating behavior,and seek that women that APPRECIATES "alpha" qualities.

It is easy? No.

Are you guaranteed success? No.

Is it a pain in the arse fraught with emotional pain and anguish? Absolutely.

Precisely why so few are capable of doing it.

And precisely why when you DO find a women that appreciates "alpha" behavior, she'll appreciate your worth, and you hers.

The BEST THING about being a man is the OLDER you get, the EASIER this gets.

Meanwhile, your targets are always the same age.

 

[Reykhel]

This reminds of a Men's Breakup Coach podcast episode I listened to last year while I was going through separation from my near ten year LTR. The host, Sergei interviews a UK dating coach Tori Ufandu, a master NLP practitioner.

Anyway, the line that stood out in the interview was that after a guy gets dumped a few times and his heart toughens up, he begins to look at women differently. The one's he was attracted to before, won't necessarily be the same one he's attracted to next time or will "allow" himself to be attracted to. That, supposively, he learns to spot the "wounded" ones in a bar, venue and won't necessarily chat her up if he's in a mindset for a LTR. If the guy wants a quick lay, or STR, then game on. Vulnerability, low self-esteem, often enough are the easier ones to game for a brief hook up, less resistance, in general.....

Getting back to the bar, venue scenario.... The guy may become perceptive enough to pick up on her body language and facial expression to recognize if she has low esteem or is going to be bad for him. It's kind of like how women are scanning the room, having conversations and judging if the man will be able to provide for her, masculinity, attractive, wealth, status, social proof, etc.



I'm still trying not to attract the attention wh0res/low self-esteem ones. That hasn't worked out yet for me. So I must still be displaying/conveying some kind of beta frame, white knight, or some other persona that doesn't show enough masculine maturity yet.......



That's one concept I don't understand. I get dumped or dump and don't date or spin plates for months/year or so I can work on my game, increase SMV, read more books, journal, work on maturity and accomplishments outside of dating. When I'm finally ready to date again, I should theoretically attract a woman closer to my SMV. Somehow, I'm still attracting the hypergamous women with low interest levels.

So obviously responding to the opening thread it's important to take into account the poster's sexual strategy.....

He's clearly talking about relationship game here and thus, talk of mature masculine power attracting a better standard of women and evolving your tastes rings true.........

Clearly if your sexual strategy is one night stand game......this would seem a moot point and irrelevant...........if your sexually strategy is spinning plates..........it's relevant up to a certain point.........how much you're bringing those plates directly into your life etc some people spin plates and are open to it leading to something more long term......obviously highly relevant...

Now, you say if you get dumped or dump you take yourself out of the game for months or even a year so you can work on your game..............you cannot work on your game if you are not in the game.....

I can understand wanting to take time out of game.......but you have to be prepared to suck when you go back out there. If you took a year off, at some level you have big expectations because you've been working on yourself, but subconsciously you must know that you are rusty as hell....it's quite possible you're subconsciously going for "easy prey"........thus you're "attracting" the same sort of skank or worse.....

There's an expression in sport........you're only as good as your last game/fight.......

I would therefor ask.....what is your sexual strategy and what's your overall game like...

Oh and back to the opening post.......

I have to say that I've never come across that before, not from me personally or anyone I know, that a chick says "if you get that promotion I'll be gone" (or whatever it was)

Never heard of that situation transpiring before

 

[sodbuster]

I don't give a sh1t what American women want. They fit into my life , or they don't. The typical woman thinks she's the boss and doesn't fit in my life

 

[MatureDJ]

I think that being too desirable is never a bad thing. if a woman (call her Eve) at a certain desirability level doesn't want a man (call him Adam) because she perceives that he is too good for her, then that simply means that there is some woman of a higher desirability level (call her Rebecca) who doesn't want a man at a higher level (call him Cain), and instead wants a man at a lower level like Adam.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

And then it's all about selecting the most desirable woman [and attainable] for you, rather than settling for something less. If more men did this then women would be forced to up their game.

All this running around and 'gaming hoes' just reflects misdirected and uncontrolled desire on our part.

 

[Pandora]

There is some truth to what was mentioned. I know a few girls that definitely seek out weak beta men that don't pose a threat, can be controlled, and manipulated. But I don't see any that are happy long term. Both are clueless about relationship roles. So if any of you think this is the way to do it then play that beta role, see how long she stay's happy and more importantly yourself.

Just this past weekend I had 2 girls in my social circle telling me how they have a hard time finding "manly" men.

This is what happens when you have a society where single mommies raise little boys that grow up to be beta chumps. This is what happens when you don't have strong male personalities in Hollywood like you did pre 1990, there is no positive male influence to shape the people. Even male musicians aren't very strong male personalities like they once were.

yeh man i agree. Strong male personalities are non exist in pop culture now. Its all girly men like Justin Beiber ( catchy music tho). Being a strong male with traditional values almost makes you a pariah these days. This may not be true in the south or the midwest but on the coasts it is certainly true. I am just amazed at how quickly this cultural shift happened.I also agree that long term they are not happy with weak men.

 

[Pandora]

And then it's all about selecting the most desirable woman [and attainable] for you, rather than settling for something less. If more men did this then women would be forced to up their game.

All this running around and 'gaming hoes' just reflects misdirected and uncontrolled desire on our part.

This is very true man. Men (including myself) have to start taking responsibility for a lot of this mess. I used to repeatedly compromise my principles just to get laid. Most men still do that. Its pathetic and it is enabling this behavior. But trying to get men to rein in their sex drive is a very difficult thing to do. It may be impossible. There will always be thirsty men who will say and do anything for sex.

 

[Pandora]

Whether or not a large percentage of women don't like "alpha" really isn't much of an issue.

It all boils down to sorting. Meet as many women as you can, increase how quickly you can disqualify them, and continue to look until you find one that meets your criteria.

Just like most people are fat and addicted to unhealthy, processed food, there are plenty of people purposely eating healthy.

Your job is to find a women that isn't addicted to beta-supplicating behavior,and seek that women that APPRECIATES "alpha" qualities.

It is easy? No.

Are you guaranteed success? No.

Is it a pain in the arse fraught with emotional pain and anguish? Absolutely.

Precisely why so few are capable of doing it.

And precisely why when you DO find a women that appreciates "alpha" behavior, she'll appreciate your worth, and you hers.

The BEST THING about being a man is the OLDER you get, the EASIER this gets.

Meanwhile, your targets are always the same age.

I think i should read this every morning. This is gold. This is a very tough process that can rock you to your core. It will leave you questioning if you are the crazy one or she is. Ones inner game has to be rock solid to survive dating in this modern era. But through the pain and anguish you grow so much as a person. Its the pain that causes you to improve.

It does boil down to sorting until you find the one that adds value to your life. The issue is that most men dont meet enough women in order to escape that scarcity mindset. So we put up with a lot of bad behavior because we dont know when we will meet another woman. I have largely escaped that mindset.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

This is very true man. Men (including myself) have to start taking responsibility for a lot of this mess. I used to repeatedly compromise my principles just to get laid. Most men still do that. Its pathetic and it is enabling this behavior. But trying to get men to rein in their sex drive is a very difficult thing to do. It may be impossible. There will always be thirsty men who will say and do anything for sex.

Totally! Instead, men fail to man up; they complain about the way the world is, and then take it for the way things are AKA 'reality'. And then abdicate their manly duty to create order by running around and contributing to the chaos. And then congregate in a tribe and call it the Manosphere! ha ha... what a joke.

Rant over. : )

 

[Pandora]

I think it depends on the motive but I've always admired the women that choose stability and the "nice guy". Ironically, the perfectly raised woman with a stable perception of men should enjoy being treated well and these are the guys to do it.

Having said that it, certainly makes a huge difference as to whether they married that guy to use him as a provider or to control him as opposed to just pair bonding.

True. But even if she married him to control him she is still better than the unmarried overbearing post wall ex *****s running around today. I will say that the girls that are the most functional married right out of college and tended to marry guys that were stable and nice. The ones that didnt marry in college tend to be the more damaged ones. I also admire the women that choose the guy that is good for her. That is what a healthy feminine woman is supposed to do. What we see now in modern America is an aberration of nature where women choose dysfunctional weak men.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I think i should read this every morning. This is gold. This is a very tough process that can rock you to your core. It will leave you questioning if you are the crazy one or she is. Ones inner game has to be rock solid to survive dating in this modern era. But through the pain and anguish you grow so much as a person. Its the pain that causes you to improve.

It does boil down to sorting until you find the one that adds value to your life. The issue is that most men dont meet enough women in order to escape that scarcity mindset. So we put up with a lot of bad behavior because we dont know when we will meet another woman. I have largely escaped that mindset.

Most men are not in control of their libido. This is crucial so that one can stay patient... and not be '*****-whipped', or desperate. A flood of freely available pornography has done a lot to fuel this no doubt. But that is a topic for another thread.

 

[Pandora]

I have to say that I've never come across that before, not from me personally or anyone I know, that a chick says "if you get that promotion I'll be gone" (or whatever it was)

Never heard of that situation transpiring before

Many women are secretly jealous of their mans success. These are the more unhealthy women. They feel threatened if you get too fit, or too rich. This is why women dont like you going to the gym when they are in a relationship with you. They fear that you will be out of their league. This is totally counter to what we were taught. We were taught that women want a man that is ambitious and want a man that is higher than them. This is true for normal healthy women. BUT modern American women are not normal or healthy. They are an aberration of nature. So they do unnatural things like secretly hope that their man does not overshadow them. I know it sounds crazy. But its true. Women these days have been bred to compete with men not support them. Many women have told me that they are intimidated by smart guys. Even ex gfs told me that. This causes problems in the relationship becuz they always try to intellectual one up you becuz they have been programmed to believe that they are just as smart if not smarter then men. So they are simultaneously attracted and repulsed by excellence. Trust me man this happens. DO YOU SEE HOW INSANE THAT IS.

 

[Reykhel]

Many women are secretly jealous of their mans success. These are the more unhealthy women. They feel threatened if you get too fit, or too rich. This is why women dont like you going to the gym when they are in a relationship with you. They fear that you will be out of their league. This is totally counter to what we were taught. We were taught that women want a man that is ambitious and want a man that is higher than them. This is true for normal healthy women. BUT modern American women are not normal or healthy. They are an aberration of nature. So they do unnatural things like secretly hope that their man does not overshadow them. I know it sounds crazy. But its true. Women these days have been bred to compete with men not support them. Many women have told me that they are intimidated by smart guys. Even ex gfs told me that. This causes problems in the relationship becuz they always try to intellectual one up you becuz they have been programmed to believe that they are just as smart if not smarter then men. So they are simultaneously attracted and repulsed by excellence. Trust me man this happens. DO YOU SEE HOW INSANE THAT IS.

I would be careful with the black and white thinking, it's classed in CBT as an error in thinking. For example stating "This is why women don't like you going to the gym when they are in a relationship with you" as if it was a universal truth.

What you've written above has simply not been my experience. It is so far from the experience that I'm living right now that it's laughable. She gets overly concerned if I miss muay thai as she knows what it gives me and the relationship I have with the people there. I would say I have been a positive influence to a lot of women. She, like other ex's have taken up running amongst other things because of me. Now this one I'm seeing has stated to me that she kind of dominated her ex's. She said she pushed and after a while they usually just gave in and of course she lost respect. This is not happening with me so there is no loss of respect leading to resentment which could manifest as "jealousy". Is this what's happening with you??

Granted I see you've stated "modern American women". I'm not American neither do I live in America.

I also see a lot of mind reading in your post (another error of thinking in CBT). You claim you know what they are thinking and the reasons behind it. Are you sure you're not projecting your own insecurities and fears? and perhaps your perception is clouded by negative past experience?

 

[oOh Nasty]

@Pandora

Interesting twist to seeing things and finding a way to come to terms with modern women's sh*tty behaviors.

But even if she married him to control him she is still better than the unmarried overbearing post wall ex *****s running around today.

I find truth in this, however, I also know plenty of married nutcase-ass b*tches.

Ironically, the perfectly raised woman with a stable perception of men should enjoy being treated well and these are the guys to do it.

Interesting. But doesn't this assume that most Alphas don't treat their women well? I think that the oldschool red-pill mindset was that you HAD to treat a woman like sh*t for her to respect you. IMO keeping a strong frame and having ambitions independent of a woman is what tickles her emotions. It just so happens that bad guys also have this same state of mind. I think you can still treat a woman fairly well while still maintaining an Alpha frame. That is, if by treating well, you mean that the man protects her, teaches her, disciplines her, and provides for her but only to the extent of the value she brings to him.

When modern society says "treating well" it's usually implied in a beta kind of way. A woman's "treat me well" is sort of like her beta guy providing for her and giving her gifts and compliments while she isn't providing anything important to him, such as sex. If that's the definition of "treating a woman well," then I'll pass.

I'm with Reykhel on this one. I think that in the end, it's healthier for the man to aim as high as possible. I also have never experienced a situation or knew anyone who experienced a situation in which a woman left him for getting promoted or moving up. I'm sure that it does happen though, if you're dealing with a nutcase. I have, however, heard of situations where a girl who isn't emotionally invested yet will feel like she isn't up to par, which will make dating her slightly more difficult. But still, these aren't good enough reasons for me not to increase my financial and social status.