Borderline Personality Disorder woman

[Asmodeus]

I honestly don't see the point in someone pretending to be a woman with BPD when they're a guy on this forum. I'm scared reading all the posts on here, because I care about my boyfriend. Also to the guy up there, I didn't hit my current boyfriend, it was my emotionally unavailable ex.
I'm not really sure WHY I have BPD, if it's a misdiagnosis or what. I wasn't abused as a child. I was bullied quite badly by girls and guys in school. Mostly just verbal abuse. I hear stories about some neglect and being around fighting/drugs. I think that probably is why. I have a terror about being left by people that I enjoy being around. Being devalued myself is horrifying to think of. Also I have an enormous fear of people dying. I don't hurt myself anymore, I have a cigarette burn on my hand (I went to gay pride yesterday and it was so packed with people outside smoking) and I'm not enjoying the pain, it's not what it used to be for me... I don't abuse drugs anymore (used to be into morphine) and I escaped that slippery slope.

What brought you to this awareness of your condition? What sparked the realization? What was the reason for your change?

Typically something happens, something that causes one to question their reality and their perception of it. An epiphany that leads to a moment of clarity. I faced death (epidural brain bleed), and realized that I had nothing to show for my life but suffering and a history of tragedy... What was it to you.

I can also do a conversation and PM if you desire.

 

[RxDoom]

What brought you to this awareness of your condition? What sparked the realization? What was the reason for your change?

Typically something happens, something that causes one to question their reality and their perception of it. An epiphany that leads to a moment of clarity.

I think the beginning of it was breaking up with my ex. I reflected on the relationship and thought "ok wtf happened there" I wondered why I was so reactive. I just thought I was "feisty" and I thought of a diagnosis I had that I never paid attention to. I got with my current bf and I was DETERMINED not to repeat the 3 year disaster before. I started noticing that I was raging and putting him in tears over basically nothing. I started getting overwhelmed with guilt and shame and I knew something needed to change

 

[Asmodeus]

I think the beginning of it was breaking up with my ex. I reflected on the relationship and thought "ok wtf happened there" I wondered why I was so reactive. I just thought I was "feisty" and I thought of a diagnosis I had that I never paid attention to. I got with my current bf and I was DETERMINED not to repeat the 3 year disaster before. I started noticing that I was raging and putting him in tears over basically nothing. I started getting overwhelmed with guilt and shame and I knew something needed to change

Rational...

And BPD from my understanding, and assessment of a number of cases comes from a feeling of not belonging... You mention being bullied in school, you did not fit in. You also did not have the chance to form a stable identity... As per Erikson's stage of identity formation vs role confusion. The improper development of ego identity. The main sign of BPD is a markedly disturbed sense of identity. You had attachment difficulties... Maybe you were not abused, but you did not have a stable attachment or stable relationships as a child. Your adolescence furthered this, when you were unable to find others to identify with. Thus, a component of the fear of abandonment and the fluctuations of idealization/devaluation as your subconscious assumes that relations with others is unstable, and so you treat it as such.

 

[FinallyFree]

BPD gf was also bullied in school. Family did not directly beat her but beat each other and neglected her (narcissistic father left to start a "normal" family and left her with much younger, heartbroken mother). So she dealt in isolation and had no real escape. Spent her teenage years as an anorexic/bulimic addicted to roleplaying games.

Every day we were together she expressed the fear that she "might be mentally retarded" despite being a very well-read, quick witted person who spoke in elaborate riddles. If I misheard her on a bad phone connection she would attribute it to her (non-existent) speech impediments. Always things like that.

Despite how much she abused me, I'm still blaming myself for everything. Thinking I should have just bought a better phone. Looked up her condition the day we met. That if I hadn't told a few dirty jokes that she misinterpreted she would have trusted me more. I know this is all nonsense but I care for her more deeply than I care for myself so I guess blaming myself makes me feel better.

For those of you with the condition who seem to be much further down the road of self-awareness/recovery than she is, what is the best way to convince her to get treatment? Even if it's not from me. Even if I can get a mutual friend to talk to her.

 

[RxDoom]

Rational...

And BPD from my understanding, and assessment of a number of cases comes from a feeling of not belonging... You mention being bullied in school, you did not fit in. You also did not have the chance to form a stable identity... As per Erikson's stage of identity formation vs role confusion. The improper development of ego identity. The main sign of BPD is a markedly disturbed sense of identity. You had attachment difficulties... Maybe you were not abused, but you did not have a stable attachment or stable relationships as a child. Your adolescence furthered this, when you were unable to find others to identify with. Thus, a component of the fear of abandonment and the fluctuations of idealization/devaluation as your subconscious assumes that relations with others is unstable, and so you treat it as such.

I'm a metalhead and I've basically been rejected by the metalheads. I don't even belong with the people that don't belong. My life is not good at the moment, I haven't had any money since April, been borrowing small amounts to eat etc. He tries to give me money and I reject it because I don't wanna feel like the damsel in distress. I've fallen out with the entire world Lol, that's how it feels anyway. I saw a picture of my ex and his friends who bullied me and I said "it's a pity the bus didn't crash on the way home." And they proceeded to rip the fvck out of me. I just ignored it all. I'm still having moments of blind anger. It actually improved for a while

 

[RxDoom]

BPD gf was also bullied in school. Family did not directly beat her but beat each other and neglected her (narcissistic father left to start a "normal" family and left her with much younger, heartbroken mother). So she dealt in isolation and had no real escape. Spent her teenage years as an anorexic/bulimic addicted to roleplaying games.

Every day we were together she expressed the fear that she "might be mentally retarded" despite being a very well-read, quick witted person who spoke in elaborate riddles. If I misheard her on a bad phone connection she would attribute it to her (non-existence) speech impediments.

I'm still blaming myself for everything. Thinking I should have just bought a better phone. Looked up her condition the day we met. That if I hadn't told a few dirty jokes that she misinterpreted she would have trusted me more. I know this is all nonsense but I care for her more deeply than I care for myself so I guess blaming myself makes me feel better.

For those of you with the condition who seem to be much further down the road of self-awareness/recovery than she is, what is the best way to convince her to get treatment? Even if it's not from me. Even if I can get a mutual friend to talk to her.

I've just read your story and it was heart breaking... there are some similarities (I've also got mad about my bf picking a fking woman in a game, wtf?) My current bf used to call his exes "unbelievably beautiful" when we first got together and I NEVER said anything. Then I would bring it up and rant for hours. Terrible, the guilt and sick feeling I have when I think of some sh!t I've done hurts...
I dunno what you can do about your BPD ex though, I had to come to this realisation on my own

 

[Asmodeus]

You did tell your boyfriend right?

I'm a metalhead and I've basically been rejected by the metalheads. I don't even belong with the people that don't belong. My life is not good at the moment, I haven't had any money since April, been borrowing small amounts to eat etc. He tries to give me money and I reject it because I don't wanna feel like the damsel in distress. I've fallen out with the entire world Lol, that's how it feels anyway. I saw a picture of my ex and his friends who bullied me and I said "it's a pity the bus didn't crash on the way home." And they proceeded to rip the fvck out of me. I just ignored it all. I'm still having moments of blind anger. It actually improved for a while

Rejection... I see the main problem. You need somewhere to belong. Of course, what you do not realize is that your condition is contributing to your rejection. It is a spiral that feeds into itself. What you said about the bus crash was something most normal people would see as unethical and out of line, it borders on sociopathic. You received rejection and got ripped from your associates because of your anger, because of that devaluation and your anger toward your ex and those you feel who rejected you. See how this pathology feeds into itself?

Break the cycle.

Also remember, everything exists on a spectrum. You are somewhat mild of a BPD case, very mild in my assessment. I met far worse, the worst one I met was in the behavioral hospital and she manipulated everything. In, fact, I would say she is the most dangerous patient there (and this is among psychopaths including a guy who killed his entire family with a shotgun). She used her cuteness and charm to make everyone fall for her, twisted everyone's allegiances. One person in the behavioral hospital nearly was murdered because of her twisting and turning everyone against each other. The staff and most of the patients who were sensible were more afraid of her, this little cutesy girl than they were of me a 6'3" 200lb ASPD case...

 

[RxDoom]

Just remember it's your fault for having bdp and it makes you a bad person equal to a rapist or child molester and if society was truly just you'd be treated as such.

Allowing you to roam freely is the equivalent to Allowing a convicted child molester to work at a day care .

I was born with it you moron.

 

[BeTheChange]

I've been discussing this stuff with my ex / current / "it's complicated" (potentially) BPD gf.

I think she gets it. She spoke to her therapist yesterday. They spent a while on the topic of using sex as a means of validation. We used to have sex ALOT. Whenever I wanted it - and my sex drive is high (could easily nut ten times a week). She said that she did this because she felt it gave her value in my eyes and some of the other BPD reasons for sex, which I can't remember at the moment. She also mentioned splitting and devaluation. Finally she admitted many of the "over the top" emotional reactions to our arguments (e.g. threatening to kill herself, hitting herself, literally screaming when I hadn't even touched her) were just a means to get attention from me, rather than her actually feeling like doing any of those things.

So perhaps she is becoming more self aware and on the path to tackling this thing. Or it could just be some ninja level emotional manipulation to create a sense of complacency before she digs her claws back in. I am hopeful for the best, but intensely cautious. I am still spinning plates.

 

[Asmodeus]

I've been discussing this stuff with my ex / current / "it's complicated" (potentially) BPD gf.

I think she gets it. She spoke to her therapist yesterday. They spent a while on the topic of using sex as a means of validation. We used to have sex ALOT. Whenever I wanted it - and my sex drive is high (could easily nut ten times a week). She said that she did this because she felt it gave her value in my eyes and some of the other BPD reasons for sex, which I can't remember at the moment. She also mentioned splitting and devaluation. Finally she admitted many of the "over the top" emotional reactions to our arguments (e.g. threatening to kill herself, hitting herself, literally screaming when I hadn't even touched her) were just a means to get attention from me, rather than her actually feeling like doing any of those things.

So perhaps she is becoming more self aware and on the path to tackling this thing. Or it could just be some ninja level emotional manipulation to create a sense of complacency before she digs her claws back in. I am hopeful for the best, but intensely cautious. I am still spinning plates.

I will try to help you understand something... A lot of cluster B cases get it to some degree. Many even fully understand, a lot give up and regress into their pathology and just lie to themselves even when they know the truth. It is insanity, don't try to understand it from your normal frame of reference. She can become self aware, she can change her behavior. But she can never change the way she feels. When something bad happens she will still split and devalue you in her mind. She will always feel that emptiness, that deep need for desire and attention. That never changes, it never decreases, and no amoun of awareness or mindfulness can change it. Both you and her will always be walking on eggshells, sometimes she will slip and lose her grip on herself and revert back. It takes an incredible amount of control to keep from being who she is too much to expect that she can hold it up indefinitely. You would need to understand this and know how to deal with it when it happens.

That being said... If you desire to be with her then have no illusions about this. No amount of love can change who she is. And if you would be with her then you should expect drama, chaos as it is inevitable. I will not tell you as to the choices you should make, it is your existence and your decision to make. But you must be fully aware of exactly what you are dealing with.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

So perhaps she is becoming more self aware and on the path to tackling this thing.

If she is indeed BPD, SHE'S NOT.

You spent 37 days in the NC thread typing pamphlet-length posts that read like a rah-rah-rah speech/life coach's sales pitch, and then you cracked. Now comes the rationalizing. I'm rooting for you BeTheChange, but this forum could use a little bit more tough love. There will be no coddling here if this is more or less a fraternity. I wish someone had roughed me up a little bit one year ago.

You're not ready to let her go, and you never were. I could tell by reading the posts. You kept talking and talking and talking about her, endlessly asking questions out loud, and every post ended with how you ultimately didn't care because of how many "plates" you were spinning. This is textbook bargaining. You were trying to convince yourself, not us. In one post you talked about having 5 dates in a week. Nobody with FIVE DATES in one week spends 2 seconds on his BPD ex. You're probably going to deny this and take it personally, which is also pretty much par for the course during this phase.

You know how you know when you're getting over her? When you stop posting in the NC thread altogether, or rather very infrequently (I posted there a few times in the week leading up to my birthday, but haven't since.) I guess you are back for a little bit more punishment and you'll be back in the NC thread starting at 0 in about 2 months.

Don't worry, we'll be here when you do...

 

[xstang77]

If she is indeed BPD, SHE'S NOT.

You spent 37 days in the NC thread typing pamphlet-length posts that read like a rah-rah-rah speech/life coach's sales pitch, and then you cracked. Now comes the rationalizing. I'm rooting for you BeTheChange, but this forum could use a little bit more tough love. There will be no coddling here if this is more or less a fraternity. I wish someone had roughed me up a little bit one year ago.

You're not ready to let her go, and you never were. I could tell by reading the posts. You kept talking and talking and talking about her, endlessly asking questions out loud, and every post ended with how you ultimately didn't care because of how many "plates" you were spinning. This is textbook bargaining. You were trying to convince yourself, not us. In one post you talked about having 5 dates in a week. Nobody with FIVE DATES in one week spends 2 seconds on his BPD ex. You're probably going to deny this and take it personally, which is also pretty much par for the course during this phase.

You know how you know when you're getting over her? When you stop posting in the NC thread altogether, or rather very infrequently (I posted there a few times in the week leading up to my birthday, but haven't since.) I guess you are back for a little bit more punishment and you'll be back in the NC thread starting at 0 in about 2 months.

Don't worry, we'll be here when you do...

If he can dependent on if he's not dead or in jail,it only gets worse each recycle,also pertaining to op bpd is not something your born with lmao.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

If he can dependent on if he's not dead or in jail,it only gets worse each recycle,also pertaining to op bpd is not something your born with lmao.

I'm not a psychiatrist, I don't know if you're "born with it" or not. I'm not prepared to say whether it's a choice or a disease. Asmodeus seems to think you can't get rid of it on sheer willpower, unlike something like alcoholism, which is 100% choice. Let's work on the premise that it can't be cured, but you can live with it if you try. I will add that you can, by choice, limit the damage you inflict upon people. BPD's are often functioning, successful and intelligent, so even if the impulses are strong, I do not accept the excuses when they choose to go ahead with their dastardly actions.

BeTheChange, we'll know you're ready when you stop posting about it multiple times a day. Until then all the "I'm finally free" and "It's all about the inner self" is all bluster, as you've displayed.

 

[xstang77]

I'm not a psychiatrist, I don't know if you're "born with it" or not. I'm not prepared to say whether it's a choice or a disease. Asmodeus seems to think you can't get rid of it on sheer willpower, unlike something like alcoholism, which is 100% choice. Let's work on the premise that it can't be cured, but you can live with it if you try. I will add that you can, by choice, limit the damage you inflict upon people. BPD's are often functioning, successful and intelligent, so even if the impulses are strong, I do not accept the excuses when they choose to go ahead with their dastardly actions.

BeTheChange, we'll know you're ready when you stop posting about it multiple times a day. Until then all the "I'm finally free" and "It's all about the inner self" is all bluster, as you've displayed.

No,I was referring to the supposed bpd girl who started this thread saying she was born with it lol.they absolutely have a choice and know better pertaining to some of the ****ty things they do. My ex even admitted she could fight the feelings when they come over her but she just chooses not to.

 

[Asmodeus]

If she is indeed BPD, SHE'S NOT.

You spent 37 days in the NC thread typing pamphlet-length posts that read like a rah-rah-rah speech/life coach's sales pitch, and then you cracked. Now comes the rationalizing. I'm rooting for you BeTheChange, but this forum could use a little bit more tough love. There will be no coddling here if this is more or less a fraternity. I wish someone had roughed me up a little bit one year ago.

You're not ready to let her go, and you never were. I could tell by reading the posts. You kept talking and talking and talking about her, endlessly asking questions out loud, and every post ended with how you ultimately didn't care because of how many "plates" you were spinning. This is textbook bargaining. You were trying to convince yourself, not us. In one post you talked about having 5 dates in a week. Nobody with FIVE DATES in one week spends 2 seconds on his BPD ex. You're probably going to deny this and take it personally, which is also pretty much par for the course during this phase.

You know how you know when you're getting over her? When you stop posting in the NC thread altogether, or rather very infrequently (I posted there a few times in the week leading up to my birthday, but haven't since.) I guess you are back for a little bit more punishment and you'll be back in the NC thread starting at 0 in about 2 months.

Don't worry, we'll be here when you do...

You are correct, the problem has notiong to do with his ex/current/whatever. It has to do with him. He is being very clingy and going back to something which is not working. A situation which is obviously toxic and pathological to him yet he STILL does it anyway.

Asmodeus seems to think you can't get rid of it on sheer willpower, unlike something like alcoholism,

^I am cluster B, diagnosed at 21 with ASPD. I may seem lucid and completely normal on the surface but anyone who digs deeper will see what is there. I also know a lot of Cluster B cases having literally communicated with dozens. Not to mention I go to the behavioral hospital frequently, not to seek help there but instead to learn and understand. I am kind of a volunteer of sorts, it is complicated... But most of the patients seem to have a kind of camaraderie with me as I am not one of the doctors/nurses and I kind of know them better in some ways.
Believe me, you cannot get rid of it. It is the hallmark of a personality disorder... It IS the person's personality.

I do not accept the excuses when they choose to go ahead with their dastardly actions

And you should not... Because although a cluster B cannot change the way they feel, they can control their behavior. Many just choose to believe their own fiction and act upon it as it is easier than facing reality. It is hard to explain to somebody who is normal... You would not entirely understand it.

 

[Asmodeus]

No,I was referring to the supposed bpd girl who started this thread saying she was born with it lol.they absolutely have a choice and know better pertaining to some of the ****ty things they do. My ex even admitted she could fight the feelings when they come over her but she just chooses not to.

I do not think you understand...

People develop personality disorders as a way of their feeling and thinking. I am not sure if it is born, or a part of upbringing, or most likely both.

But it is not so simple as choice... See choosing to control behaviors is one thing... But there is another component a person with a "normal" type of thinking and feeling like you would not fully understand. This is an actual permanent fixture of the person, and how they are. The temp of feelings, and the thought process is irregular, out of tempo.

So your ex is right... She can fight the behaviors, but she does not actually control the feelings. It is very hard to try explaining this to noms... Very hard... You never get it, never understand it. You view everyting from your own frame of reference and ideas about thinking and feeling.

The disorder is not a choice... The behavior is a choice. However, the disorder influences the behavior to a degree.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

I do not think you understand...

People develop personality disorders as a way of their feeling and thinking. I am not sure if it is born, or a part of upbringing, or most likely both.

But it is not so simple as choice... See choosing to control behaviors is one thing... But there is another component a person with a "normal" type of thinking and feeling like you would not fully understand. This is an actual permanent fixture of the person, and how they are. The temp of feelings, and the thought process is irregular, out of tempo.

So your ex is right... She can fight the behaviors, but she does not actually control the feelings. It is very hard to try explaining this to noms... Very hard... You never get it, never understand it. You view everyting from your own frame of reference and ideas about thinking and feeling.

The disorder is not a choice... The behavior is a choice. However, the disorder influences the behavior to a degree.

I understand it to the extent that an unafflicted person can understand it. The impulse to do destructive things is exponentially stronger than in other folks, but in the end we're still talking about autonomous professionals sometimes with an IQ of 120. They still do have a choice, at the end of the day, unlike let's say a schizophrenic who is going to have a hard time running a company or seducing someone, for example.

But the issue here is BeTheChange, not his deranged ex. It would help if he could actually admit his behavior reeks of weakness - then we could help him more by sharing that he's not alone standing on that edge. But instead he's rambling on about "there's nothing but positivity flowing through my untamed spirit" or some such nonsense. I would buy that if he had made it to the 60 day challenge without making a single post prior. Posting every day or sometimes 2-3 times a day means you're still very, very much in her vicegrip.

 

[BeTheChange]

@BlueAlpha1

Your entitled to your opinion. However, I am more aware of the relationship dynamic than anyone else here. And being objective, BPD or not I made this girl's life a living hell. She is the one who needed therapy after things fell apart. If i told you some of the things I did you would not believe me (and I have repeated this pattern with non-BPD exes so dont go throwing in the "she msde you crazy" bullsh1t"). These musings in the NC thread were my therapy and NC was about me finding clarity and understanding what it was about both of us that made things go so badly.

As I've said a few times. You are projecting YOUR experiences on to MY situation. From what I know you were STALKING your ex post breakup for Christ sake. We are not functioning on the same degree of emotional involvement or neediness. Perhaps you can't imagine a man can still have the power to arrange 5 dates and miss his ex because you've never been in such a situation?

I like this girl a lot. Do I feel like if we both address our issues we can be happy together? Of course. We are two damaged individuals who deeply care for one another. We see this now and are on this path together for the time being. However she is not my everything and never will be.

And with regards to my posts in the NC thread, they were absolutely true. The shift in my thinking was phenomenal. I'm hitting the gym again, meditating, reading a lot, going out more, dealing with the anger and control issues. I'm healing. If she reverts to this Hyde persona again, even though I'm not the same sadistic guy anymore then I can hold my hands up and say I did all I could and say you guys were right. It's not the end of the world. No real loss other than delayed emotional pain. However if not, then taking the risk would have been worth it.

 

[BeTheChange]

I do not think you understand...

People develop personality disorders as a way of their feeling and thinking. I am not sure if it is born, or a part of upbringing, or most likely both.

But it is not so simple as choice... See choosing to control behaviors is one thing... But there is another component a person with a "normal" type of thinking and feeling like you would not fully understand. This is an actual permanent fixture of the person, and how they are. The temp of feelings, and the thought process is irregular, out of tempo.

So your ex is right... She can fight the behaviors, but she does not actually control the feelings. It is very hard to try explaining this to noms... Very hard... You never get it, never understand it. You view everyting from your own frame of reference and ideas about thinking and feeling.

The disorder is not a choice... The behavior is a choice. However, the disorder influences the behavior to a degree.

Yes. I agree with this.

Here's a good example.

Lets say, I'm having an argument with a girlfriend. She says something I perceive as disrespectful.

Thought process: How dare SHE talk to ME like that. I will be RESPECTED. She doesn't know who she is dealing with. [Narcisstic rage takes over]

Actions A: Proceed to verbal abuse for having the audacity to cross me

Or

Actions B: RECOGNISE that you are not thinking rationally and leave the situation until things calm down.

 

[Asmodeus]

Yes. I agree with this.

Here's a good example.

Lets say, I'm having an argument with a girlfriend. She says something I perceive as disrespectful.

Thought process: How dare SHE talk to ME like that. I will be RESPECTED. She doesn't know who she is dealing with. [Narcisstic rage takes over]

Actions A: Proceed to verbal abuse for having the audacity to cross me

Or

Actions B: RECOGNISE that you are not thinking rationally and leave the situation until things calm down.

You recognize that on a basal level you have some issues too. Personality disorders exist on a wide spectrum, you fall on it somewhere. Two people with issues getting together is a very difficult situation.
Both sides walking on eggshells trying not to trigger each other. It is like being in the middle of a minefield with no sweeper. Make the wrong moves and it is liable to blow up. What I am saying is that history seems doomed to repeat itself. And the mutual destructiveness and pathology can only be held back for so long...
You and her should take a lot of time apart. Work on yourselves and get off this rollercoaster.