Reasons for Marriage

Asmodeus

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I have no problem with choices of others so long as it is not outwardly harmful. But when somebody tries to denigrate others for their choices and when somebody asserts that they are superior in their choices that only shows arrogance. Not only are you judging them but you feel the need to give people crap for it. Without walking in another person's shoes how can you say such things? You are just playing judge here... Because others do not adhere to your own moral and ethical code they are lesser than you. Honestly, I think you need to just focus on yourself and your life, to stick to your own convictions and virtues and not try to force them on to others or berate others for not having the same. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." (yes the irony of me quoting Jesus).

BeTheChange is a legit. And I will say that he seems to be working to make something good out of his life. LiveFree can do what he wants as it is his life, your obvious indignation toward him and his choices speaks more about you and your judgmental attitudes, inflexibility, and arrogance.
 

ZTIME

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ZTIME, I respect your spiritual predisposition. Please give an example so I may ponder.
Sure, if you consider all of the statements you've seen in the last 24 hours (this thread included) , it's safe to assume that the probability of any given contradiction being true is pretty low. This general way of thinking may be trumped on the occasion where we do have good reason to believe that the contradiction is true.

Less then likely doesn't mean impossible.

Some food for thought. I have no place here to judge the merits of you or be the change. I do however believe his declaration of success to be true. No value either way. Just sharing my perspective.

Sometimes a world of certainty is a boring existence.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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I have no problem with choices of others so long as it is not outwardly harmful. But when somebody tries to denigrate others for their choices and when somebody asserts that they are superior in their choices that only shows arrogance. Not only are you judging them but you feel the need to give people crap for it. Without walking in another person's shoes how can you say such things? You are just playing judge here...
You allege that my "embracing challenge" ideology (the "law") is a choice. In fact, it's an unequivocal spiritual law. Evidenced by the rudimentary fact that no one has been successful in challenging the law is further corroboration of its merits.

As an example. Gravity is a physical law. If someone elects to operate outside of the law of gravity, and hurt himself and others, I will him give shvt for it. This is no different. Your confusion arises in confounding opinion with law; choice with fact. If you wish to contest my position, first you would have to prove that my "embracing challenge" ideology is an opinion, and not a law. If you were able to accomplish this feat, then I would congratulate you and change my position. But you can't champ ...

LiveFree said:
My challenge is trying to find guys I can bring over to the 3rd world 'safe spaces' to train them to be real men and take control of the women they are with, this grows our strength as a tribe.
IF this were your genuine challenge (as defined clearly in Posts 141 &143), then you would have my support. The word "control," though, does not resonate fully with truth.
 
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Yewki

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For those guys actually considering it: I say in order to select the right girl you must spend at least 6 months consecutively out of the year in your destination. You must live with her, meet her family, figure out her personality when she is not wearing the makeup and get her to believe that you enjoy slumming it.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown in your post, but this is precisely why girls from 3rd world countries are off the table for basically everyone here.

Tell me this. Who would go out of their way to travel to a 3rd world country, hunt for a girl, find a prospect, completely change their lifestyle, quit their job and live in said country with said girl for 6 months, all for something that might not work out? In your case it was part of your job to be there. But for the rest of us? I'm sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous.
 

LiveFreeX

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I agree to the extent of "being easier" due to lack of first-world entitlement. The question is would I be happy or have enough in common with a woman from a 3rd world country? Will she be able to challenge my mind and thinking and keep me interested in her? Will she remain a 3rd-world woman once she is indoctrinated with the values of the 1st world?
You do realize that the 3rd world has universities, doctors and cities just like you have in the USA? Why do North Americans assume they have the best of everything without seeing the competition for themselves, I dunno...its just an American thing I guess. Believe whatever TV and your friend of a friend tells you or see it for yourself. I'm giving you a first hand account of my experience versus a bunch of bullsh1t that I read on a website. My wife has a degree, I don't... she knows all sorts of math and science but I don't think we've ever spoken about it. I guess I'm lucky I'm so stupid eh? Maybe deep conversation is important to you, I prefer a woman who shares my values and while she may not be able to articulate what she means all the time, I get the gist of it. At least she makes the effort, and to me, that means everything.

This is something you have to find out for yourself. There is no definite YES/NO answers here. Either you go out and find out or you don't and just assume that you are right. Maybe your experience will be completely different than mine but really whats the harm in trying? We are ALL going to die one day, why not live a little on your way there?

That's exactly what I'm talking about Yewki, for some people that sounds excellent but for the large majority its crazy talk. I can't understand that myself but I'm aware that people think my lifestyle sounds like bullsh1t.

Who would go out of their way to travel to a 3rd world country, hunt for a girl, find a prospect, completely change their lifestyle, quit their job and live in said country with said girl for 6 months, all for something that might not work out? In your case it was part of your job to be there. But for the rest of us? I'm sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous.
www.happierabroad.com
www.rooshvforums.com
www.roadjunky.com

I mean, I'm certainly not the only one who thinks like this. There are tons of resources out there for guys who want to travel. I've met an absolute ton of people off various PUA forums. I didn't learn about Thailand by myself either, I was taken there by my parents and my uncle (dad's NAM buddy) when I was 16. My parents were doing some business there and my father's business partner (a local) decided he and my uncle were going to take me on a tour of the red light district bars [Papong], so I was exposed to 'the other side' at a very young age. My other uncle was the first one to leave for China, he was a CPA accountant.... some sort of executive at a corporation... anyway after his second divorce, he went MGTOW/AWOL for awhile. Came back home, went on the net, met some woman from China and left. 3 years later he comes back with her, she apparently was also an accountant, rich and they stayed here for a short time. Then they went far up north for a couple years, and finally back to China. My uncle now lives on a small farm (he owns) and sells vegetables off the back of Donkey cart. He loves it. He's been married without complaints to his Chinese wife going on 20 years. She speaks a little English, he speaks a little mandrain. He likes to talk at length about the Ruling class, federal reserve, American history but he doesn't need

Is that crazy? Well maybe crazy runs in my family.

I'm not asking you to buy into it if you don't want to, likely you are just going to find more ways to continue on doing what you are doing... guys like you, I'm not interested in meeting anyway. The stories I could tell you will either make your jaw drop or your eyes droop depending on the type of person you are. I know guys here who are firmly entrenched in society and they hate hearing what I have to say about other countries, it bores them.... hey whatever man... some people like PB+J their entire life, if thats you, great we need those people, they build stable societies. For me, I like to sample all the world has to offer and if you find yourself looking around, wondering how you can get in on it, maybe I can lend a hand.
 
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ZTIME

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[QUOTE="l_e_g_e_n_d, post: 2330446, member: 131001

As an example. Gravity is a physical law. If someone elects to operate outside of the law of gravity, and hurt himself and others, I will him give shvt for it. This is no different. Your confusion arises in confounding opinion with law; choice with fact. If you wish to contest my position, first you would have to prove that my "embracing challenge" ideology is an opinion, and not a law. If you were able to accomplish this feat, then I would congratulate you and change my position. [/QUOTE]

Well, here's a fun topic. I've been blessed to be able to travel quite a bit......fun story! I've been here:

http://www.rense.com/general39/coral.htm

Now, I would never question the law of gravity and that young Issac whom had that Apple fall on his head. Yet someone did. I did walk on these stones and I do know that they're amazing.

This guy said gravity does not exist. All mass is based on poles and magnetics. The cool part is that he's done the impossible while making that statement.

Maybe there truly is gravity, maybe he's right, maybe a combination of the 2.(anti gravity rooms being created with magnetic fields).

This is no proof of discrediting your "law of gravity", yet if you are not 100% sure.... If there's a 1% chance of you being wrong, your advice cannot be 100% accurate.

I love SS so that I can digest the advice of many. We're all blessed to have such a diverse group of men working to help others.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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ZTIME, you may be surprised to know that I secretly hope I am wrong. I try not to subscribe to belief systems and social conventions, as they can serve as prisons just as much as to be helpful. However, "laws" I fully defer to.

I implore anybody to show me that this spiritual "law" is incorrect. Show me just one example. We have many intelligent posters on this site: TicTac, Tenacity, Danger, AtomSmasher, Samspade, Asmodeus, among a few. We have spiritual officers LYD and ZTIME.

Again:
l_e_g_e_n_d said:
The definition of "challenge" to which we refer in this thread is "running away from something difficult that is already present in your sphere.
l_e_g_e_n_d said:
We are referring to a specific, personalized challenge that we are overtly (and sometimes covertly) and repeatedly confronted with; a challenge that is recurring in form but may take alternate shapes; a challenge that we have at least one conscious thought toward to be aware of its nature and existence; a challenge that is so deeply intertwined within our spiritual DNA, that it could by all means not be there by random chance or whim; a challenge that exists with purpose, to those who are discerning enough to recognize its function.
Embracing challenge is not to be confused with making short-sighted, ill-advised decisions or creating new problems that at best could be overcome by Pyrrhic victories. The challenge will be present regardless of whether you elect to embrace or avert it.

I know the subject matter is labrythine, and not straight-forward. I tried to explain and qualify "it" as best as I could. Under the above umbrella, can anyone show me just one example, where "embracing challenge" is imprudent?
 
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BeExcellent

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Although the thread has now run absolutely sideways from its initial track it is to my mind an interesting existential discussion.

Wikipedia defines existentialism's major holding is that philosophically things originate from the human individual. Freedom to act as an individual is important, but individual authenticity is the more accurate goal of this line of thought.

To my mind the question that @l_e_g_e_n_d poses comes down to the question of discernment more than anything else. How do we choose, how do we discern in our lives the right path? That of itself is a challenge with which we must always wrestle.

We as people can find abundance of "challenges" all around us in many things along the path of our lives, the question becomes does an individual have sufficient discernment to determine which of the myriad challenges that exist are worth tackling to best suit that particular individual.

For example: Should a person remain employed at a particular company doing a particular job and seek advancement there, or is that individual best served to leave the company and strike out in their chosen field as an entrepreneur? That choice comes down to discernment and the two paths lead to different outcomes.

Should a person marry? Should they not? What is best? The answer varies.

I agree with the premise @l_e_g_e_n_d proposes for it is evident everywhere in all things:

Nothing is static; everything is dynamic. This is a fact and is inescapable.

The universe, the weather, the life cycles of living things, the construction, maintenance and decay of structures, or mountains, everything is dynamic. Energy is required for all dynamic change, and ultimately energy merely changes forms and is exchanged but is never created nor destroyed. This is a physical law. This is the zero sum game. Modern physics may be discovering an ultimate source for the energy, and the universe seems to be continuing to expand at an ever increasing rate...these are things we cannot know in our personal or communal (aggregate) existence on Earth because due to relativity, things feel and appear quite stable to us in our existence here. And in some things we as humans are too limited in our perspective to recognize these laws that influence us. Gravity existed forever before Newton described it. Relativity existed forever before Einstein described it. Other things have existed forever which we cannot yet understand or describe.

Transitory things like wealth can be created in an unlimited sense by an individual, but remember wealth is something created by humans as an exchange medium and is thus meaningless from the perspective of the universe.

Mars couldn't care less how much money anyone has for example. Mars couldn't care less about the rule of law or any other manmade societal constraint either. But Mars absolutely follows physical laws of the universe. Physics and the universe are not in the least governed by imaginary things made up by man for his own purposes.

But on Earth, in manmade societies things like wealth and the rule of law and other societal constraints are seen as important because society has expectations and the majority of people subscribe to those expectations to one degree or another. We subscribe to the illusions. We quite like them. We are attached to them and attach meaning to them. We create constructs and bind ourselves collectively to them. The rule of law, manners, societal roles, religious belief systems, financial dealings, etc. etc. etc. All manmade illusory constraints that we enforce and perpetuate (and not without good reason, IMO.)

A living thing grows, maintains itself until it becomes too inefficient to harness energy sufficient to sustain life, and then dies. Some living things like babies are entirely reliant on the grace of others for survival. Growth is challenging, it is painful and necessary. Death too is challenging and can be equally painful. One is either expanding or contracting at all times in a physical sense, and this is consistent with the laws of the universe and requires energy.

It is easy because of our inability to comprehend all the dynamics that surround us, to assume things are static. But to attempt to remain static in ones life, runs counter to nature and to our nature as human beings. We, like everything that exists are dynamic. We are physically dynamic and we are built to be intellectually dynamic and emotionally dynamic as well.

But we must embrace our transitory and temporal existence in order to understand why "embracing challenges" are indeed what we are built to do. To my mind the degree to which an individual can create changes within his/her life or to effect change in human society is directly correlated to the degree to which an individual is constrained or not constrained mentally by the illusory limits we human beings tend to place in our own way in an attempt to remain comfortable. Comfort too is illusory. History tells us this over and over. But people are still limited to the illusions of their perceptions and inability to see past the microcosm of their own individual existence at a specific moment in time.

Remember what George Bernard Shaw said:

"Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man"

The unreasonable man is unconstrained and is embracing challenges most people are unable to wrap their mind around.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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BeExcellent said:
Mars couldn't care less about the rule of law or any other manmade societal constraint either. But Mars absolutely follows physical laws of the universe.
BeExcellent, to expound on this, as I sense we are hitting gold here: To the extent the following does not support Nature's laws:

1. Nature doesn’t care about our beliefs;

2. Nature doesn’t care about our convictions; and

3. Nature doesn’t care about our ambitions.

Nature does care that we “embrace challenges” as to evolve, hence the purpose of our existence. The question then becomes "evolve into what"?

Nature does care about our survival, hence the perpetuation of our species. If perpetuation of our species is within Nature’s agenda, then it follows that acts we commit against the species, operate against Nature. Thus, diametrically, all acts should be committed to help thyself and others, not thyself alone, as to fully support this law. Granted, in all acts, somebody is compromised (at least in part or incidentally), the significance is in the “intent,” not the act.

If Nature has all and creates all, Nature is an energy of "giving," not "receiving." And as we are the recipients to embrace Nature's gifts, we are created with the will to "receive." It follows, then, that the challenge we have, both individually and collectively, is to supersede our "will to receive" to that of a "will to give" to become an energy aligned with Nature. I believe this is ultimately our purpose, and our greatest challenge. I factually know when I "give," I feel extreme grace in that instant of "giving," and accordingly, there is merit in this last conclusion. As an example, approach a hobo (or someone who is desperately in need), who is starving not drug ridden, give him a $100 bill, look at the elation in his eyes, and then describe to me how you feel.

The wise align their convictions with Nature’s laws, not their own volition, as volition is shaped by the indoctrination and conditioning of man-made constructs, and accordingly “volition,” too, although seemly "free," is contrived.
 
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LiveYourDream

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BeExcellent, to expound on this, as I sense we are hitting gold here: To the extent the following does not support Nature's laws:

1. Nature doesn’t care about our beliefs;

2. Nature doesn’t care about our convictions; and

3. Nature doesn’t care about our ambitions.

Nature does care that we “embrace challenges” as to evolve, hence the purpose of our existence.
("Nature"--I am not clear what you are referring to exactly. There is a wide spectrum. I am going to assume quite expansive, as I share below.)
From my perspective, we have the opportunity to evolve and that opportunity rests in unconditionality, it does not rest upon an agenda.
Challenges, inferring struggle, is your projection, in my opinion. Evolution denotes change. Change can also come with ease and joy. Change does not require struggle. Struggle is a common perception and thus resultant experience in this world. I would caution you not to limit your perception/experience to the need for struggle in your life or for evolution to occur.
The question then becomes "evolve into what"?

Nature does care about our survival, Again, from my perspective, we have the opportunity to survive or not, and that opportunity rests in unconditionality, it does not rest upon an agenda, in my view. the perpetuation of our species. If perpetuation of our species is within Nature’s agenda, then it follows that acts we commit against the species, operate against Nature. Thus, diametrically, all acts should be committed to help thyself and others, not thyself alone, as to fully support this law. Granted, in all acts, somebody is compromised (at least in part or incidentally), From my perspective, quite the opposite is, thankfully, possible. One shares love and all benefit. the significance is in the “intent,” not the act.

If Nature has all and creates all, Nature is an energy of "giving," not "receiving." I perceive it as both. One does not exist without the other in my perception. One is required for the other. And as we are the recipients to embrace Nature's gifts, we are created with the will to "receive." It follows, then, that the challenge we have, both individually and collectively, is to supersede our "will to receive" to that of a "will to give" to become an energy aligned with Nature. Not necessarily, at least from my perspective. For example some people are great givers their whole life yet never learn to receive well. They do not need to further increase their giving capacity but rather their capacity to receive. The free flowing capacity for both is key. Beyond that when one finds wholeness there is a desire to be of service, not from need, but from freely and joyfully sharing from our overflow. I believe this is ultimately our purpose, and our greatest challenge. I factually know when I "give," I feel extreme grace in that instant of "giving," and accordingly, there is merit in this last conclusion. As an example, approach a hobo (or someone who is desperately in need), who is starving not drug ridden, give him a $100 bill, look at the elation in his eyes, and then describe to me how you feel. As beautiful as sharing in that way is, there is also giving with no attachment what so ever. Have no attachments, to how what is given, is received or even yourself as the giver. Simply give.

The wise align their convictions with Nature’s laws
, The wise align with the highest aligned source they can perceive. not their own volition, as volition is shaped by the indoctrination and conditioning of man-made constructs, and accordingly “volition,” too, although seemly "free," is contrived.
My intent is not to debate your perspective here @l_e_g_e_n_d or suggest mine is more correct. I simply shared some of my perspectives, above in blue, to those I bolded in black above them. I understand they may resonate or not at all. I am not attached. I simply offer them as food for thought, if one is inclined to ponder another perspective.

(No disrespect intended to Desdinova and his original thread topic. I don't know this forum's guidelines about topic changes. Please feel free to repost this in a new thread if preferred.)
 
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l_e_g_e_n_d

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Strong points LYD. I will address two points as to remain within the confines of our discussion, but I'm genuinely interested in your (and others') response(s) :
LiveYourDream said:
Change can also come with ease and joy.
I will break this syllogism into two sentences.
Change can also come with joy.
I agree to the extent that you joyfully embrace challenges.
Change can also come with ease.
Here is the counterposition of how “embracing challenge” would be imprudent, as who would need to embrace difficulty to evolve, when the alternate option of evolving with ease is present, correct? Please share just one example, where genuine change or evolvement in a person can manifest out of ease? (I don't ask to argue with you, but if you or anyone else could provide an irrefutable response to this question, it could alter my vision.)

l_e_g_e_n_d said:
If Nature has all and creates all, Nature is an energy of "giving," not "receiving."
LiveYourDream said:
I perceive it as both. One does not exist without the other in my perception. One is required for the other.
I will use "Nature" and "Creator" interchangeably:

There is (a) the Creator, and (b) the Creation. One gives life; the other receives life. The essence of “creating” is giving, and the essence of being “created” is receiving. The Creator is required for the Creation, and the Creation for the Creator, but neither “Creator” nor “Creation” is the same, at least not initially.

Whether you decide to give or not to give to Nature does not change Nature's laws or existence (i.e., the moon will continue to revolve around the Earth). Nature will operate irrespectively. But, if Nature decides to stop giving (the Earth falls off its axis), you will cease to exist. Accordingly, the Creator is an energy of “giving,” and not a dual energy of “giving and receiving,” as its laws will operate irrespective of its receiving from you, the Creation.
 
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glass half full

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Back in the 90's the older men at work gave me hell for dodging my "responsibility as a man" by not getting married.

I'd like to choke the living shyt out of those fvcking baztards now. Really I would.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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OK, bringing the discussion back to OP’s topic, “Reasons for Marriage.”

We have shown that there are universal laws that operate irrespective of our beliefs and opinions (i.e. the moon will revolve around the Earth, the Earth around the sun, etc.). It is well settled that the perpetuation of our species is within Nature’s agenda, as Nature’s laws have unequivocally promoted our survival (i.e., the circular exchange of oxygen/carbon dioxide with the plant kingdom; the ideal temperature and gravitational forces as not to freeze/melt/implode/explode; etc.).

Accordingly, Nature’s agenda (in part) includes:

The survival and perpetuation of our species.

“Marriage” is a man-made construct. One does not need to marry to procreate, although social conventions have indoctrinated most to believe children are healthier if borne from marriage, there is no supporting evidence (that I am aware of) that demonstrates that the perpetuation of our species is contingent on married couples procreating as opposed to unmarried couples procreating. Accordingly, absent irrefutable evidence to the contrary, “marriage” would not fall under Nature’s agenda.

Marriage is entirely a social construct; thus, an individual decision.

Ideas to chew on:
1. It could be argued that the greater amount of couples that remain unmarried will in time render the current “divorce rape” case law ineffectual, thus altering case law to support marriage; ergo, supporting marriage today is a form of anti-marriage and contrariwise.

2. A greater question that arises is does divorce compromise the perpetuation of our species? Not directly, but maybe collaterally, if children were psychologically compromised in the divorce process and resultantly elected not to have children themselves—or parents, who were psychologically compromised, elected not to have more children. Accordingly, although marriage was a propitious social construct, Pro-Nature, at one time, in the current environment, it may run contrary to Nature’s intent.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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A lesson for all men. Don't do something simply because somebody else says it's what you should do. (Including family.) Only the individual can know for sure what's best for him.
Then by this definition, if a person thought suicide was best for him, s/he should commit suicide and ignore the antagonists?
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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I would try to stop him and advise him of more lucrative options. See being a "white knight" isn't all that bad as long as the intent is not self-serving as (on a deeper level, behind the facade) most white-knights' intentions are.
 

Tenacity

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Then by this definition, if a person thought suicide was best for him, s/he should commit suicide and ignore the antagonists?
Depends on the situation. I know if this were the 1800s and I was born into slavery, I would damn sure be looking at committing suicide than to live/endure that bullshyt.

I think this thread has gone into all sorts of directions because you continue to make the argument about what a man "HAS" to do for the "good of all mankind". I wonder when the day will come when society will start shaming women into doing what's good for mankind?

You can start by shaming women into stop pro-creating with thugs/criminals/ex-convicts, bringing children into the world by these pieces of shyt, and raising them in single mother households. Stats show that kids who are raised by single mothers, have a higher likelihood of going down all types of wrong paths in life.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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Depends on the situation. I know if this were the 1800s and I was born into slavery, I would damn sure be looking at committing suicide than to live/endure that bullshyt.
If all slaves committed suicide, the "slave" race would be extinct or if only few slaves remained many would not have been present to promote the abolishment of slavery.
Tenacity said:
I think this thread has gone into all sorts of directions because you continue to make the argument about what a man "HAS" to do for the "good of all mankind".
I promote that a man's convictions should be aligned with Nature's laws. Nothing more, nothing less. Does that include the good of all mankind? To the extent it promotes perpetuation, yes.
Tenacity said:
I wonder when the day will come when society will start shaming women into doing what's good for mankind?
I hold women accountable for ALL their behaviors. Don't you?
Tenacity said:
You can start by shaming women into stop pro-creating with thugs/criminals/ex-convicts, bringing children into the world by these pieces of shyt, and raising them in single mother households. Stats show that kids who are raised by single mothers, have a higher likelihood of going down all types of wrong paths in life.
I think this is a dynamic prevalent in the black culture. I don't see it present in the women I date. But if you date strictly black women, by all means.
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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Legend,
Choosing cultures which are supportive of pairbonding and permanent family households is a prudent decision when compared to choosing to marry under the umbrella of a culture which attacks those structures.

Choosing to go counter culture just for the sake of the difficulty is imprudent. There quite simply is nothing extra to gain other than additional risk.
l_e_g_e_n_d said:
Embracing challenge is not to be confused with making short-sighted, ill-advised decisions or creating new problems that at best could be overcome by Pyrrhic victories.
I agree.
Samspade said:
I also believe all actions are self-serving.
Samspade said:
... if you try to convince a friend not to kill himself, you're presenting a different outlook for him to consider.
Samspade, the first quote contradicts the second, unless you have a personal interest in keeping this friend alive.
He can choose to accept or reject your arguments; either way it's not your fault.
Never feel blame for others' decisions, but this doesn't mean we couldn't try to influence others who were making imprudent decisions.
Samspade said:
you still have to accept those arguments or reject them and make your own decision.
Correct.
Samspade said:
A lot of people do this and often end up even more unhappy because they weren't following their own desires.
True, but as you have directed this to me, don't confuse my argument to mean that you should do what others tell you to do. I simply stated that one should align their convictions with Nature's laws. Whether others, yours, all, some, or no rules align is where shrewd discernment is needed.

Samspade said:
Or as the man once wrote, to thine own self be true.
Living by platitudes can be dangerous friend. Does not the pedophile believe he is being true to himself, as he is acting upon his desire? I think a more accurate axiom would be:

To thine own self, live in truth.
 
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Tenacity

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If all slaves committed suicide, the "slave" race would be extinct or if only few slaves remained many would not have been present to promote the abolishment of slavery.
You are presenting these points as if they would be a bad thing?

I promote that a man's convictions should be aligned with Nature's laws. Nothing more, nothing less. Does that include the good of all mankind? To the extent it promotes perpetuation, yes.
The issue though is that your aspect of "nature's law" is just another religion. It's just as if a Christian got up here and said spinning plates, fvcking before marriage and doing anything lustful period doesn't make you a "real man" based on the principles of the bible...as "real men" (based on the bible) wait until marriage.

You basically are presenting some "moral compass" that YOU happen to subscribe to, but other men don't subscribe to. You are shaming men based on a moral compass YOU have, but we don't have. But who is to say your moral compass is right? What if based on MY moral compass, your moral compass promotes what I deem immorality?

I hold women accountable for ALL their behaviors. Don't you? I think this is a dynamic prevalent in the black culture. I don't see it present in the women I date. But if you date strictly black women, by all means.
Yes, it's a major problem in the black community but, are you saying not to date black women? Weren't you the one that just got done promoting this aspect of "remaining in the fight and not running away from challenges"? If I stopped dating black women due to the issues within the group as a whole, wouldn't that go against your stance of staying and fighting the good fight lol?
 

l_e_g_e_n_d

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l_e_g_e_n_d said:
If all slaves committed suicide, the "slave" race would be extinct or if only few slaves remained many would not have been present to promote the abolishment of slavery.
Tenacity said:
You are presenting these points as if they would be a bad thing?
Let me rephrase: If all blacks committed suicide during slavery, blacks would be extinct. Are you not black? LOL
Tenacity said:
The issue though is that your aspect of "nature's law" is just another religion. It's just as if a Christian got up here and said spinning plates, fvcking before marriage and doing anything lustful period doesn't make you a "real man" based on the principles of the bible...as "real men" (based on the bible) wait until marriage.
I like this discussion.

The distinction between religion and Nature’s laws is Nature’s laws will operate independent of our opinions and assertions. The Earth will revolve around the sun. And the human race will continue to perpetuate. Conversely, as I have found, religion(s) contain bald assertions that cannot be reconciled.

Example:

The Jewish religion (and Christianity which incorporates the old testament of Jewish text) state that the Earth and universe were unequivocally created exactly 5,776 years ago. Scientists, through radiometric dating, have identified dinosaur bones to be millions of years old. How do you reconcile the two?

Further, the fundamental understanding of astronomy teaches you that when you see a star, you are viewing it as it were, not as it is. Accordingly, when you view a star one million light years away, you are viewing the star as it were one million years ago because it took one million years for the light from that star to reach Earth and your sight. There are billions of stars more than 5,776 light years away, and thus these stars have a proven existence greater than 5,776 years. How do you reconcile that with the Old Testament’s claim that the Earth and universe are exactly 5,776 years old? If there is one inconsistency of fact, you must discard all, as in truth lies no discrepancies.

Whereas a law of Nature such as how the Earth revolves around the sun is identifiable and factually correct.

One is based on bald claims, the other on fact.
Tenacity said:
Yes, it's a major problem in the black community but, are you saying not to date black women? Weren't you the one that just got done promoting this aspect of "remaining in the fight and not running away from challenges"? If I stopped dating black women due to the issues within the group as a whole, wouldn't that go against your stance of staying and fighting the good fight lol?
Great question for you to ponder on, and I do believe based on your previous recurring posts and complaints, that this challenge may very well be in your cards. The question I have follows:

Qualify the scope: Your challenge is binary, specifically for you, and does not conflict with perpetuation of the species with either choice (e.g., you can impregnate a black--or--white/Asian). Nature's law of perpetuation is not offended either way. As well, you encounter a challenge with either choice: (a) Finding a black girl that meets your criterion; (b) Saddling with a white or Asian that meets your criterion but you are not sexually attracted to. Are you with me so far?

This is difficult, heh. I'm sweating. Which is the greater challenge, a or b? Which is the challenge that you must embrace? Ready for the answer?

...

...







<Drum Roll> Have you embraced both challenges (a & b) to understand the merits of both?
 
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