Reasons for Marriage

[LiveFreeX]

2) For the other 99%+ of us who don't travel to 3rd world countries regularly for our job, how would you recommend hooking up with girls from there? Vacations to 3rd world countries? How easy is it to bring one back? Then again, according to you that might result in getting ridiculed and looked down upon by your home country.

Yes it will but that's when you know you've done things right for yourself, you'll know because most people get jealous and start laying down the shame.. The problem with most Canadians, I can't speak for Americans, is they can't fathom NOT WORKING or working abroad or changing their lives in any way, shape or form. For those people, they aren't going to change no matter what I say, if this is you, then you are just looking for more ways to stay home.

For those guys actually considering it: I say in order to select the right girl you must spend at least 6 months consecutively out of the year in your destination. You must live with her, meet her family, figure out her personality when she is not wearing the makeup and get her to believe that you enjoy slumming it. This will allow her to get used to your personality and your cheapness, gold diggers will usually bail at this point. You also want to check out her background so you know where she is from and what she expects as part of her daily routine. In my wife's case, she lived with a bunch of other girls in a small bedroom, no mattress, nothing just a pillow and a blanket on a concrete floor. She had no kitchen, everything was covered in black mold, they had one filthy table in the middle of the room and a cooker, this is what she could afford. I felt guilty as FVCK running game on her, making her pay for our dates and buying dresses to impress me but I got to know where she came from and what she was looking for in terms of a guy. We had a lot of fun together, mostly just touring the city and her taking me to all the 'hole in the wall' places. 5 years later when I came home, I cried walking into my driveway, I couldn't believe the size of my house and all the stuff I took for granted.

If you are serious about going abroad and you don't want to teach english or sports, you need to be able to make enough money in 6 months to pay for the other 6 you spend not working (or get a rental property or two). When I was in my twenties, I used to live in Mexico for $150/month for a 2 bedroom apartment just outside Mexico City. $3000 for a 6 month period was more than enough to pay my flight down and back, food/house. I did that for 3 1/2 years. When most people think of vacation they think of luxury meals, wine, and other stupid sh1t they don't do at home. You just have to look at this like 'living abroad' not vacationing. Vacations are for families at Disney world, locking down a wife is serious business.

1) Kind of seems like you have a chip on your shoulder. You and your wife both have all these issues and negative perceptions of the people in Canada. I'm in the US and I'm raising an eyebrow reading this stuff. Maybe some the your problems stem from you.

When I finally managed to swallow the red pill my world changed. So yes, my problems stem from me waking up to what was actually happening around me.

The West and many people stuck in the bubble would like nothing more than for me to shut up while they eat their steak.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

All bull**** aside, I liked your story LiveFree.

I made a few mil. Fought many wars. Helped many good folks in the process. And here I am ... still unfulfilled as fuk. I'm on the fence as to whether to take on bigger challenges or work a few more years and take a permanent vacation. I certainly have one eye open toward the latter ...

 

[LiveFreeX]

The door is always open pal.

 

[BeTheChange]

This is actually hilarious.

Legend has tried every shaming tactic in the book at this stage.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Those who run from their challenges should be ashamed, ChangeBox. And I will shame them, just as I shamed you and Tenacity, the forum mascot.

Understandable, though, you are a product of the younger generation of feminized men, who were never in touch with their masculinity. I fault you not.

 

[Tenacity]

Those who run from their challenges should be ashamed, ChangeBox. And I will shame them, just as I shamed you and Tenacity, the forum mascot.

Understandable, though, you are a product of the younger generation of feminized men, who were never in touch with their masculinity. I fault you not.

Me and BeTheChange pretty much never get along, but I have INTEGRITY so I'm going to call B.S. out when I see it and not allow you (Legend) to sit up here and paint BeTheChange as something the kid's not.

BeTheChange busted his a.ss off through college to get into very a high ranking business school, even after having some issues during undergrad when the guy could have just gave up on his pursuits. He's been working in Big 4 positions and now he's on his way to getting directly into an I-Banking role. At his age, he's making money that puts him well into the top 8% of individual income earners in the world.

He's a guy that set a goal, stuck to it and accomplished a lot of things before 30 that most men at 60 have NEVER accomplished. From his story, that doesn't sound like anybody who is feminized and runs from their challenges.

Legend I still don't understand your stance of how a man deciding to move to a different territory equates to being a pvssy and not going after his goals, or not seeking to fight his problems. Changes of territory are requirements in battle from time-to-time. To me (and this is only my opinion) if you want to label someone as a quitter who doesn't fight the "good fight", then label the people who sit on welfare for 20 years or who still live in their mother's basement at age 40 as such losers. These are the men (if you want to call them that) who are not striving to accomplish shyt in life.......

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Me and BeTheChange pretty much never get along, but I have INTEGRITY so I'm going to call B.S. out when I see it and not allow you (Legend) to sit up here and paint BeTheChange as something the kid's not.

BeTheChange busted his a.ss off through college to get into very a high ranking business school, even after having some issues during undergrad when the guy could have just gave up on his pursuits. He's been working in Big 4 positions and now he's on his way to getting directly into an I-Banking role. At his age, he's making money that puts him well into the top 8% of individual income earners in the world.

He's a guy that set a goal, stuck to it and accomplished a lot of things before 30 that most men at 60 have NEVER accomplished. From his story, that doesn't sound like anybody who is feminized and runs from their challenges.

So, by this definition, if a man goes to an Ivy League school, works in a Big 4, and is a top 8% earner, this means he is not feminized? All I did is rephrase your question to rebut. Do you see how weak your rhetoric is?

As to running from challenges, academic and financial success does not equate to a "fighter." Although one can be subsumed within the other, they do not always logically follow (i.e.; he could be a natural genius or via daddy's pockets, inter alia).

ChangeBox had a hangup with facing challenges and responded like. Naturally, his counter-position exemplifies his position, and I countered accordingly.

Legend I still don't understand your stance of how a man deciding to move to a different territory equates to being a pvssy and not going after his goals, or not seeking to fight his problems. Changes of territory are requirements in battle from time-to-time.

I agree. The "intent" is the subject matter. Do you understand my position, have a reading comprehension deficiency, or prefer to deliver knee-jerk responses?

To me (and this is only my opinion) if you want to label someone as a quitter who doesn't fight the "good fight", then label the people who sit on welfare for 20 years or who still live in their mother's basement at age 40 as such losers. These are the men (if you want to call them that) who are not striving to accomplish shyt in life.......

They are. And as I stated, when I see shvt, I call it shvt.

 

[Tenacity]

So, by this definition, if a man goes to an Ivy League school, works in a Big 4, and is a top 8% earner, this means he is not feminized? All I did is rephrase your question to rebut. Do you see how weak your rhetoric is?

You said he was feminized and runs from his challenges.

- I provided an example of how the guy fought his challenges head on and succeeded. That refutes your theory of him being a guy that runs away from challenges.

- The term "feminized" is to refer to a man as having "bytch-like" qualities. Now people's perspective of "bytch-like" qualities vary, but I just don't see how a guy that busted his a.ss off to climb the ranks of Big 4 (which is tough) and I-Banking is some sort of "pvssy". Maybe YOU (Legend) consider said activity to be "pvssy", but I don't, because I know the man-hours, dedication, and difficulty that comes with said employment.

As to running from challenges, academic and financial success does not equate to a "fighter." Although one can be subsumed within the other, they do not always logically follow (i.e.; he could be a natural genius or via daddy's pockets, inter alia).

You go from shaming guys on here, to flat out disrespecting their accomplishments. Look, I don't know if the guy is coming from a well-off family or not, what I DO KNOW is Big4/I-Banking is a very difficult form of employment with the required man-hours, above needed IQ levels, the stress, etc. To succeed in that world is amazing and you will of course be financially rewarded for doing so.

One minute you want to argue the purpose of Sosuave, but then when you have guys who are clear examples of following the principles of Sosuave, you want to slam and disrespect them because they don't "agree" with your proposed shaming tactics of what a "real man" would do.

- LiveFree is living his dream, in a country where he wants to live, with a chick that he wanted to be with.

- BeTheChange is living his dream, making a good amount of money and working in one of the most sought after industries in the WORLD (I-Banking).

Me and BeTheChange don't even get along, but respect is due where it's due. These two guys that you hate so much followed the principles of this site and built the world that they (keyword THEY) wanted to live in. Because that's what this site is all about Legend....this site is about creating the world that YOU want. Not being shamed into living in a world, or being with certain types of women, or working in certain places, that you don't want to work in, but only doing so because it's what a "real man" would do.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

You said he was feminized and runs from his challenges.

- I provided an example of how the guy fought his challenges head on and succeeded. That refutes your theory of him being a guy that runs away from challenges.

- The term "feminized" is to refer to a man as having "bytch-like" qualities. Now people's perspective of "bytch-like" qualities vary, but I just don't see how a guy that busted his a.ss off to climb the ranks of Big 4 (which is tough) and I-Banking is some sort of "pvssy". Maybe YOU (Legend) consider said activity to be "pvssy", but I don't, because I know the man-hours, dedication, and difficulty that comes with said employment.

How do you know he fought his challenges? Cite exactly where he averred that. The facts you cited certainly do not support that. For all you know, daddy could have bought his education and IB entrance. Your argument is conclusory. In case the two-dollar word confuses you, "conclusory" means the conclusion does not unequivocally derive from the fact.

You go from shaming guys on here, to flat out disrespecting their accomplishments. Look, I don't know if the guy is coming from a well-off family or not, what I DO KNOW is Big4/I-Banking is a very difficult form of employment with the required man-hours, above needed IQ levels, the stress, etc. To succeed in that world is amazing and you will of course be financially rewarded for doing so.

You don’t know. Ergo, your argument is conclusory. Come back with facts.

Now of course, ChangeBox may return to the thread and allege, “ I had to climb mountains … yada, yada,” post-facto, because he left the thread with his tail between his legs.

One minute you want to argue the purpose of Sosuave, but then when you have guys who are clear examples of following the principles of Sosuave, you want to slam and disrespect them because they don't "agree" with your proposed shaming tactics of what a "real man" would do.

You have not evidenced that challenges have been transcended. Conclusory again.

- LiveFree is living his dream, in a country where he wants to live, with a chick that he wanted to be with.

- BeTheChange is living his dream, making a good amount of money and working in one of the most sought after industries in the WORLD (I-Banking).

Me and BeTheChange don't even get along, but respect is due where it's due. These two guys that you hate so much followed the principles of this site and built the world that they (keyword THEY) wanted to live in. Because that's what this site is all about Legend....this site is about creating the world that YOU want. Not being shamed into living in a world, or being with certain types of women, or working in certain places, that you don't want to work in, but only doing so because it's what a "real man" would do.

Mind you, ChangeBox entered this thread counter-arguing my contention of "embracing challenge." Accordingly, to say he deserves my respect is unfounded. Any man who embraces the ideology of averting challenge--or antipodally counters the contention of embracing challenge--will get shamed by me. Live with it.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

I don't understand the concept of running from one's assigned "challenges." Can somebody explain?

The definition of "challenge" to which we refer in this thread is "running away from something difficult that is already present in your sphere."

Under this umbrella, care to provide any examples, where "embracing challenge" is imprudent.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Now ... we might be getting somewhere. Let's qualify "challenge" a little deeper:

That makes sense. I have more questions.
1. Who decides what are the challenges that exist in one's sphere, vs. outside it?

Nature. We are referring to a specific, personalized challenge that we are overtly (and sometimes covertly) and repeatedly confronted with; a challenge that is recurring in form but may take alternate shapes; a challenge that we have at least one conscious thought toward to be aware of its nature and existence; a challenge that is so deeply intertwined within our spiritual DNA, that it could by all means not be there by random chance or whim; a challenge that exists with purpose, to those who are discerning enough to recognize its function.

2. Why should an individual care what others think about whether he embraces or avoids any one challenge?

From a spiritual evolvement vantage point, a person should care only about his own advancement toward the challenge, as it is his spiritual “duty” to deal with, not others’. However, often, our consciousness is misdirected or misplaced (not present in the now) and, accordingly, outside catalysts could of service to direct focus back onto the "duty."

3. Choosing to avoid one challenge means taking another path, which will inevitably present a different set of challenges, will it not?

I find that when the “challenge” (to which I refer above) is consciously avoided, compounding tribulations are brought forward forcing one to either eventually confront or suffer immeasurably. Unfortunately, some choose the latter.

4. If meeting a challenge means certain death or disfigurement, should the person still run toward it, or away from it?

An example would help. Should you paint "a guy puts a gun to your head, what should you do" scenario, you would have to support your example demonstrating how this would constitute a recurring "challenge" within the definition described in point one.

 

[BeTheChange]

Ten, I appreciate the support. And like you said we differ in our world view on certain topics but I respect your grind.

Legend is literally the typing definition of lack of substance. When you make an assertion suggesting I am running away from challenge the onus is on you to provide support for that. Nothing in this thread suggests this at all. I would not choose to take LiveFree's path but I respect it because he has chosen to take action to change his circumstances based on his own value judgements.

Now I could type you a 5 page essay explaining how I'm anything but feminised, how my devoted 22 year old HB8 gf of three years adores me, cooks, cleans, hits the gym everyday and supports me in everything i do despite knowing i will never marry her (you will probably shame me for not marrying knowing your logic). Or about how I've knocked every challenge I've come across out the park through hard work, sheer force of will and a bit of luck. But I'm not a fan of justifying myself to strangers on the Internet. Especially one who has zero credibility on this forum and is getting torn apart logically by most posters in this very thread.

And FWIW there was no silver spoon (there was barely even a wooden spoon) and my non response was based on the fact I have better things to do then debate with someone (legend) who clearly has a massive blindspot on this topic. I'm not Danger (massive respect to the guy). When someone is clearly wrong I can't go pages and pages "debating" with them. Life is too short. Have a nice day.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

ChangeBox, your testimony of "embracing challenge" belies your attack on my contention of the same. Truth cannot exist in contradiction. Accordingly, absent a reconciliation of the two, your above testimony cannot be given consideration and must be stricken. Ergo, my whipping upon you was warranted.

Samspade:

IF I am reading between the lines correctly, outside of a personal vested interest in the topic, I understand your hangup with my participation in this thread is my discrediting--or in some posters' opinions, my shaming--LiveFree for moving to a third-world country without all the facts as to form a legitimate basis for my appeal. Correct?

1) Since it is a recurring theme in this thread, where some posters are unable to differentiate between "intent" and "action," I will explain the difference in rudimentary fashion.

I take a gun and shoot a random stranger in the head ... because I was in the mood. (Cold-blood murder)
I take a gun and shoot a random stranger in the head, because he was about to kill me. (Self-defense)

Same action. Different intent.

LiveFree's act of moving was never the subject matter. His intent was:

Now IF his change in location were not "escaping," nor "to find a traditional woman," then his move could have merit. His intent is the pickle

"Escaping from" and "avoidance" are loaded words, which carry deep connotations, and if used recklessly can give readers the wrong understanding. Just as if a poster were to come into the W&S forum and state in a perfunctory manner, "Invest into penny stocks," I would crush him.

Not one poster in this thread has yet to rebut how "embracing challenge" within the definition described in Posts 141 & 143 is ill-advised.

Tangentially:

It follows that if the person chooses to accept or reject a challenge, he should do so based on what is best for him, not others

I find a person "should" do what's best for him and others, not only what's best for him, as self-serving intent alone does not produce lasting fruit.

 

[Tenacity]

ChangeBox, your testimony of "embracing challenge" belies your attack on my contention of the same. Truth cannot exist in contradiction. Accordingly, absent a reconciliation of the two, your above testimony cannot be given consideration and must be stricken. Ergo, my whipping upon you was warranted.

Dude WTF. I remember in my "anger" thread, how you were promoting this "positivity movement". Here you have a young man (BeTheChange is only 25 - 26) who is doing very well in his life in all areas, and you are smacking down his accomplishments for absolutely NO reason other than to try (keyword is try) to win an argument.

You have no damn integrity and for you to get up here on a male self-improvement site, and shyt on another man's accomplishments, is just disgusting.

1) Since it is a recurring theme in this thread, where some posters are unable to differentiate between "intent" and "action," I will explain the difference in rudimentary fashion.

I take a gun and shoot a random stranger in the head ... because I was in the mood. (Cold-blood murder)
I take a gun and shoot a random stranger in the head, because he was about to kill me. (Self-defense)

Same action. Different intent.

LiveFree's act of moving was never the subject matter. His intent was:

And this is why they use "jury of peers" for cases like that, rather than one sole idiotic "judge". Because there is also something called manslaughter, which should be in the middle of the two examples you provided, with the first listing being that of 1st degree murder. Many cases come down to a manslaughter v.s. self defense type of situation, which is when a jury of peers comes in to look at all evidence on the table to make the final determination.

LiveFree's "intent" could have been in self-defense (self-defense plee), or it could have been intentional (1st degree), or it could have been an over-reaction based on an unfortunate situation he was going through at the time (manslaughter), it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. He made the choice to live his life however the hell he wanted to, and to pursue his own definition of happiness. As LONG AS he's not stepping over anybody else's freedoms in the process, he can choose whatever life he wants for himself...be it here in the US or outside of it, be it with US women or Canadian women.....

Legend you are one of the main reasons men go MGTOW and opt out of everything. Folks get tired of having the morality police wag their fingers at them about what they "should do" and what a "real man" would do. Take your "real man" shyt and shove it up your a.ss, this is my life and as long as I don't step on the freedoms of others, I'll DEFINE it however I like.

 

[LiveFreeX]

You could also argue Legend, that you are avoiding the challenge of marriage. The odds of having a successful marriage are about the same as navigating an asteroid field.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Dude WTF. I remember in my "anger" thread, how you were promoting this "positivity movement". Here you have a young man (BeTheChange is only 25 - 26) who is doing very well in his life in all areas, and you are smacking down his accomplishments for absolutely NO reason other than to try (keyword is try) to win an argument.

You have no damn integrity and for you to get up here on a male self-improvement site, and shyt on another man's accomplishments, is just disgusting.

1) I know many accomplished men who I don’t respect. Your presumption is if a man is accomplished, he should be respected. So under this very line of thinking, if this accomplished man were a pedophile, I should still respect him? Do you see how your rhetoric is unqualified and lacks merit?

2) ChangeBox’s accomplishments are not confirmed by his post-facto attestation, as he contended against “embracing challenges,” so how does one accomplish greatly with an impetus to avert challenges? The contradiction is irreconcilable absent a qualified, meritorious explanation, and so accordingly, his attestation lacks verity.

LiveFree's "intent" could have been in self-defense (self-defense plee), or it could have been intentional (1st degree), or it could have been an over-reaction based on an unfortunate situation he was going through at the time (manslaughter), it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. He made the choice to live his life however the hell he wanted to, and to pursue his own definition of happiness. As LONG AS he's not stepping over anybody else's freedoms in the process, he can choose whatever life he wants for himself...be it here in the US or outside of it, be it with US women or Canadian women.....

News flash Pal: In any act, somebody’s freedom will be compromised. If I support men’s rights, women will be compromised; if I support women, men will be compromised. If I sell you a stock and that stock goes up, I get hurt; but if the stock goes down, you get hurt. It’s a zero sum game champ. Somebody wins, somebody loses.

Legend you are one of the main reasons men go MGTOW and opt out of everything. Folks get tired of having the morality police wag their fingers at them about what they "should do" and what a "real man" would do.

I’m the moral police and your diatribe is how I am “immoral” to ChangeBox? LOL.

Take your "real man" shyt and shove it up your a.ss, this is my life and ... I'll DEFINE it however I like.

You can define your life as you like. And so can the pedophile who also believes he is living life only by his rules. Guess what? I will give him shvt too. You don’t like when I denigrate someone who runs from challenges? Too bad. Live with it.

You could also argue Legend, that you are avoiding the challenge of marriage. The odds of having a successful marriage are about the same as navigating an asteroid field.

For the record, I was already married. I am not married now, and am with a great girl. My challenge is not marrying her.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Not getting her to marry you, no... the challenge is getting over your own defense mechanisms to enter into marriage and roll the dice. I feel you increase your odds of success by finding women from the 3rd world who aren't born into entitlement. Now there are no guarantees in life but its still a challenge nonetheless. You could tell me to fvck off and that you have a lot to lose (more than I) if your marriage goes south but for the same reason you don't enter into marriage the second time is the reason I choose to avoid western women and culture completely (or as much as I possibly can).

Just today I was listening in on a conversation between two trades men. It went something like this:

Dude 1:"I can't pack my girlfriend's lunch with that, she's totally allergic and gets really pissed when I include anything with that in it"

Dude 2: "You pack your girlfriend's lunch? Wow, that's really awesome of you, sometimes I do too, but not as much as I should. "

Dude 3: "Man just be happy with anything she does for you, mine made me a porkchop once, it was really good"

Cool Dude: "WTF, my wife cooks and cleans and ties my shoes for christ sake, why the fvck would you want to be with a woman that demands you do this sh1t for her. "

Dude 2 " You make your wife tie your shoes?"

Cool Dude "I don't make her tie my shoes, I allow her to do it" (couldn't resist)

Dude 1 'Rolls his eyes' "I bet she folds your laundry too right?"

Cool Dude: "You must be psychic, you know if you are considering marrying this girl you should at least tes...... "

Dude 1: 'Puts in his ear phones and tunes out'.

Something tells me, I may not be very well liked in the lunch room.

Anyway, its the average conversation like this that gets me terminated from my job... I don't fit into the West. Maybe you don't understand LEGEND, a conversation like this in Canada can progress into 'hate speech' very quickly which is met with jail time in some cases. The other thing about our culture is that Canadians like nothing better than white knighting for women in front of other men. They LITERALLY brag about how much of a b1tch they can be to their girlfriends/wives, its disgusting really. I don't know what life is like in the USA but other Canadians can confirm, this sh1t goes down on a daily basis and men here are programmed to accept backtalk, bad behavior and temper tantrums as normal. Canadian men are some of the most docile wanks I've ever met, if I had stayed, I would likely have turned out just like Dude 1 and 2.

That's just women right? Wrong.

 

[ZTIME]

ChangeBox, your testimony of "embracing challenge" belies your attack on my contention of the same. Truth cannot exist in contradiction. .

Is it possible that we call this paradoxical truth? Just asking. I believe some truth can exist in contradiction.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

I feel you increase your odds of success by finding women from the 3rd world who aren't born into entitlement.

I agree to the extent of "being easier" due to lack of first-world entitlement. The question is would I be happy or have enough in common with a woman from a 3rd world country? Will she be able to challenge my mind and thinking and keep me interested in her? Will she remain a 3rd-world woman once she is indoctrinated with the values of the 1st world?

Again:

Marry, bang, molest as many 3rd world woman as you like. I care not. But if your intent were to "escape" challenges that were brought before you, I will give you crap for it. You told a story. You clarified your intent, though it was a bit different than your earlier intent; but, notwithstanding, because you were a gentlemen, I gave you the benefit of the doubt. And so, I stated, "Carry on."

Is it possible that we call this paradoxical truth? Just asking. I believe some truth can exist in contradiction.

ZTIME, I respect your spiritual predisposition. Please give an example so I may ponder.

 

[LiveFreeX]

@l_e_g_e_n_d

I wasn't finished editing my post.

My challenge is trying to find guys I can bring over to the 3rd world 'safe spaces' to train them to be real men and take control of the women they are with, this grows our strength as a tribe. Really, I don't have to 'teach' anything, just the act of getting men to travel over to these destinations, opens their eyes to a world of possibilities that the West would rather you not see. Its impossible to learn this in a 1st world space where its almost illegal now to talk to a woman on the street let alone talk about how to 'control them'. I think if I were even to say this in public in Canada, I might have protesters and SJWs outside my door. Nothing is gained by remaining in ultra hostile territory, no man is an island.