Does becoming muscular really help your game?

zekko

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It's a coping mechanism because they are lazy. Let's face it, muscles, abs, flashy clothes, flashy cars and MONEY in general, all attract women, but it takes a lot of extreme sacrifice for guys to acquire these assets.
Tenacity, judging from your selfie, you seem fairly fit. Yet you've said repeatedly in your posts you aren't getting what you want from women. If muscles were THAT important, don't you think they'd be giving you what you want?

I've said this repeatedly, I truly believe that there is a lot of variation between the results from women that different guys will get from working out. Obviously you are better off being fit than not fit, but muscle alone is not a magic pill. When I started lifting in my 20s, I remember I probably got more remarks about it from guys than women. It was because I had other problems with women socially that needed addressed. Not everybody's problem is that they aren't ripped enough.

Years later though, when everything came together, I agree having muscles was part of the package. But I was fit to begin with, before I started lifting, I was slim and athletic. I wasn't fat, just kind of scrawny. Going from fat to fit probably makes a bigger difference.
 

LiveFreeX

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Eh.... I was a staunch anti-muscle advocate... but I've been hitting the gym for a year, just about everyday. Well, yesterday, I was just doing my regular work out and I overheard two girls (Indian and Asian), who were looking at me, whisper to each other ("I would **** him" and "go talk to him"). I'm not very big but I think I'm above average for the gym size now. AND the more I work out the more I notice how out of shape 99% of society has become.

I've never gotten THAT kind of response from women in my entire life... so yeah I guess having muscles does help your game quite a bit. Also, women can sense when a man is married, I don't know how they do it but they know and it drives them wild. I don't wear a ring or nothing but my wife is in pretty good shape and I guess when she comes to pick me up at the gym, the women take notice of how she latches on to my arm. Perceived social value I guess... I didn't start going to the gym for women though, I promised myself I would get healthier after my last brush with death...so women didn't factor into it.
 

Tenacity

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Tenacity, judging from your selfie, you seem fairly fit. Yet you've said repeatedly in your posts you aren't getting what you want from women. If muscles were THAT important, don't you think they'd be giving you what you want?
I'm debating this over at City Data as well as we speak lol. You guys can view my thread and the discussion over there by clicking here: http://www.city-data.com/forum/relationships/2455270-getting-vasectomy-giving-up-women.html

But ultimately the reason I believe that I haven't found the woman I was looking for, is because she doesn't exist in large enough of numbers to even find her. In some ways, I think my criteria is too high.

You would think that it's not that high, but the market of American women is so shytty, that you have to literally LOWER your expectations today.

So it's like this, if I'm going to be in a "quality" relationship with a chick, I'm going to have to accept a major flaw with the girl. Either she's going to be a little "fat", not obese but she might just look better with her clothes on than when she takes them off. Or, she's going to have some type of financial issues such as maybe having 2 kids with none of their Fathers being present or something. Or, she's going to be very high maintenance. Or, she's going to be a little fvckin wishy washy within the relationship, almost like a power struggle.

The woman I was looking for was one that was physically attractive, no kids, finances together, loves me, with high interest. If this woman EXISTS, she's so few in quantity that it's like trying to find a Desert Fox.
 

thatfeel

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That sounds a bit premature. Girls don't just have "high interest" for the fvck of it. If you have something worth being highly interested in then any woman could be highly interested in you. So, you might as well just be looking at every woman that's attractive to you with no kids and has their **** together.
 

latinnova

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Yes, to a point. You want to have that lean yet muscular look, similar to the statue of David. **** all that steroids blown up crazy muscle look, there are only a small niche of girls that like that ****. I would say the way brad pitts body was in Troy would be a prime example of what a majority of the ladies want. Too far from this either way (skinny or super huge) and you will move away from looking best for the majority of the women. And yes, I know that he is Brad Pitt and we are all not even close to him, but I'm just giving an example of the body type that I have found will attract the greatest amount of women. For me at 5' 10", that is 185 lbs, ripped enough to see ab definitions, but not much more. Women aren't a fan of veins sticking out all over the arms, but just enough to show that you are fit.
 

TheMonkeyKing

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I'm agreeing with Tenacity. The more strings you have to your bow, the more successful you'll be, with women or otherwise. You first priorities should be your health and your wealth, personally. It just so happens that these two things are of primary interest to women as well. And understandably so. In three game of reproduction, mens' and womens' priorities are remarkably similar. Our should be. It's not rocket science.

Size does matter.
 

3agle 3yes

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So when muscles, abs and money are out of REACH for most guys, they cope by saying "they don't matter" and try to focus on intrinsic shyt like how good their "personality" is despite the fact that they are fat, out of shape and broke. The seduction community and seduction gurus are well aware of this, that's why they try to SELL you that looks, muscles and money don't matter, and all you have to do is learn these "natural game personality tactics" and it will get you hot chicks despite your lack of good looks and money.

It's bullshyt.
I'm not going to say what you posted here is bs, but how you are as a person is WAY more important than being muscular and having money.

First of all if a man is not muscular it doesn't mean he is fat or out of shape and if he is not rich it doesn't mean he's broke...using extremes to make your point isn't going to work here.

The average man under 30 is in reasonable shape and if someones motivation for wealth is getting pvssy then they need psychological help.

You have it reversed IMO, muscles, "abs" are EASIER things to acquire and it is isn't too difficult to pretend you have money too.

Any loser can be muscular, it costs NOTHING to go to the gym these days...and if you need money to get women it means you have nothing else to offer...also, expect to be spending a lot of it on them...otherwise why else would they be interested?

But getting over your insecurities, fears of being lonely, facing rejection, speaking to strangers, being able to engage the attention of multiple people and keeping it as well as valuing relationships above sex are FAR harder things to do.
 

gravityeyelids

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The short answer is Yes, Absolutely.

The real answer is that it's an important part of bring a well rounded, attractive person. Muscles won't pull girls FOR you and if you're baseing your entire confidence on your physique than you really need to be focusing on other, more important aspects of yourself so become the best version of yourself. Working out regularly WILL Jack up your testosterone, sex drive, and confidence, however. But the risk is that you replace being an insecure skinny guy with a ****y (not confident) insecure dude with muscles who will ultimately not get any more girls than the skinny guy who doesn't work out but has his sh1t together.

That being said... A muscular, well maintained body says A LOT about a man and how valuable he is. It's more than just eye candy and pretty features. A muscular figure is not given, like a girl who is born with beautiful features and genetics (or a man for that matter). It has to be EARNED and maintained through intensive work, focus, and dedication. A man who is built and athletic says "yes I'm good looking, but I also eat properly, have the dedication to stick to something, am not lazy, etc". Also, physically attractive people are automatically perceived to be more intelligent, capable, and charismatic/social (look up the Halo effect)

But, in short, YES, FVXKING HIT THE GYM BRAH
 
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Yewki

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Yes, to a point. You want to have that lean yet muscular look, similar to the statue of David. **** all that steroids blown up crazy muscle look, there are only a small niche of girls that like that ****. I would say the way brad pitts body was in Troy would be a prime example of what a majority of the ladies want. Too far from this either way (skinny or super huge) and you will move away from looking best for the majority of the women. And yes, I know that he is Brad Pitt and we are all not even close to him, but I'm just giving an example of the body type that I have found will attract the greatest amount of women. For me at 5' 10", that is 185 lbs, ripped enough to see ab definitions, but not much more. Women aren't a fan of veins sticking out all over the arms, but just enough to show that you are fit.
Exactly. Some moderation is key. It's easy to lose sight and take things too far. Those extreme roided up hulk looking guys are too preoccupied chasing the dream to realize they in fact went too far... they're never content, so what's the solution? Keep injecting. Keep lifting. More.

I get it though. When you've lived a certain lifestyle for years chasing a passion, it's hard to shift gears and focus on something else.
 

Tenacity

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I'm not going to say what you posted here is bs, but how you are as a person is WAY more important than being muscular and having money.
But people aren't one dimensional. I think it comes down to having a good personality and knowing how to be flexible to different audiences. It's why "just be yourself" is bad advice, because it doesn't tell you WHICH self to be during the particular situation. Sometimes you need to be your professional self, sometimes you need to be your a.sshole self, sometimes you need to be your laid back self, etc.

First of all if a man is not muscular it doesn't mean he is fat or out of shape and if he is not rich it doesn't mean he's broke...using extremes to make your point isn't going to work here.
I didn't say someone had to be rich. Rich is being in the Top 0.1% of individual income earners in the country, which means you would be making at least $500,000 per year. I said a guy with his finances in order is at least MIDDLE CLASS, which would be at least $45,000 per year in a low/decent cost of living area.

And if you workout and eat right on routine, you ought to be able to take your shirt off and it shows. If not, you are doing something wrong.

.....if someones motivation for wealth is getting pvssy then they need psychological help.....You have it reversed IMO, muscles, "abs" are EASIER things to acquire and it is isn't too difficult to pretend you have money too. Any loser can be muscular, it costs NOTHING to go to the gym these days...and if you need money to get women it means you have nothing else to offer...also, expect to be spending a lot of it on them...otherwise why else would they be interested?
Man what kind of logic are you using here lol.

First of all, if abs were EASY to get, everybody would have theirs visible. This country is one of the most overweight, out of shape and obese countries in the world. I would say only about 10% of the population has their abs clearly visible if I were going to throw out an estimate. That also goes for being muscular too, less than 10% of guys in this country can take their shirt off and a woman enjoys the visual.

So your commentary about any loser can have abs and visible muscles is ridiculous lol.

In terms of being motivated to acquire wealth in order to get pvssy, your motivation to acquire wealth should primarily be in relation to your PASSION for a particular skill, trade or market. Pvssy is just a by-product of said success. And in terms of people pretending to have money, yes, a lot of people have negative net worths and run everything up on debt. But there are also some of us out here who have positive net worths in the 6 figure range as well.

But getting over your insecurities, fears of being lonely, facing rejection, speaking to strangers, being able to engage the attention of multiple people and keeping it as well as valuing relationships above sex are FAR harder things to do.
No, these are the EASIEST things of the "attraction" scale to fix. Remember I believe it comes down to being a 6 or 7 in Looks, Personality and Finances/Money. The Personality portion is the EASIEST one to fix because you can literally sit down and read a book, listen to a seminar, etc., to work on fixing your conversation skills.

To fix your Finances/Money situation, that takes hard work, higher education, investments, continued training, continued networking, long hours of slaving away, etc.

To fix your Looks, this includes continually working out and continually eating right. Which means you will be slaving away in the gym, you have to turn down eating processed garbage if it's not your cheat day, etc. That takes hard work and a whole lot of discipline.
 
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zekko

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A lot of guys in the seduction community started lifting AFTER getting into pickup. So I wonder how many of these guys started getting better results from women, just because they were carrying themselves better and acting with more abundance. Then they think it's all because they gained a little muscle.

I have a friend who is very tall. I've noticed the girls eye him admirably whenever we go out. So maybe this sounds silly, but when I go out alone now I try to "think taller", walk as tall as I can without looking unnatural. I'm 5'10", so I'm just average height. But I feel like I've been getting better responses from women since I started doing this. Not like my ACTUALLY tall friend gets, but better than before.
 

thatfeel

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Your posture can say a lot about you.
 

old_skoolr

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There's no denying being muscular helps your game, but if your inner game is lacking, it ain't gonna mean anything.

I rekon 70% of guys who go to the gym in my city, do it for the sake of picking up women. The whole "aesthetics" look is to me a bunch of insecure boys trying to look good so girls think there hot, and it works to some degree. Muscles on a guy is like a fat ass and sick tits on a girl, they grab attention, but if you have no game that attraction goes quickly. I know, I've seen it first hand from a friend of mine.

I recommend guys start hitting the gym at least once a week, as much as i hate it the posers there. It does help game in the long run and also good way to boost testosterone, plus mixing that with watching what you eat is the way to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

Props to Tenacity for having the discipline in maintaining his physique, if it works for you then that's awesome, congrats dude.

Though I have encountered the downside, where girls have told me they find guys with ripped bodies boring. As they like a guy with a bit of a gut as it shows he's more fun to be around aka the Dad bod.
 

Young OG

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It's funny how this old thread just keeps going. People arguing back and forth.

Anyone who thinks being muscular doesn't help your game is nuts. At the beginning of this year I was severely under weight with no muscles. Now I'm decently ripped, with visible abs. I'm working hard right now to get my abs very defined. Once I had made some good progress, I noticed right away that women were actually looking at me. Yes, you need game and I got girls in the past being skinny, but being muscular will improve your chances of getting more women. Why wouldn't you want to improve your chances to get more women? The answer is lazyness. I eat clean and workout hard. Many men don't have the disipline to do this. I see so many out of shape and over weight men when out in public. If you get ripped, you put yourself above all these men. You become a rare commodity.
 

thatfeel

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eat clen, tren hard
 

Who Dares Win

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Though I have encountered the downside, where girls have told me they find guys with ripped bodies boring. As they like a guy with a bit of a gut as it shows he's more fun to be around aka the Dad bod.
I guess they are the female counterparts of those guys that says that they dont hooters waitresses attractive, surely you dont find a sexual charged individual attractive if you cant match their bodies and their coolness.

Just like those girls who say they dont "give a ****" about a toned body in a guy and skip shirtless pictures of guy in dating sites, either they are feminist or they have crappy bodies themselves, surely someone could prefer the dad bod but in most cases they "decide to prefer it".
 

zekko

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Though I have encountered the downside, where girls have told me they find guys with ripped bodies boring. As they like a guy with a bit of a gut as it shows he's more fun to be around aka the Dad bod.
They could be saying that they find the personality of a guy who works out constantly to be boring. Like "No, Linda, we can't go out tonight, it's my my leg day, I have to go to the gym". I could see where a guy who is too much into the gym and diet might come off as too one dimensional and narcissistic to some women. "No, Linda, we can't stop at that hot dog stand, I'm trying to eat clean!". I could see where that might get boring.
 

dillj

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Bruce lee was 5'3" and 110 lbs and nobody had a chance vs him. :) He had a fantastic body and tremendous respect was given him, but he was not big, in any way, physically. What women respond to is that you have that much desire and discipline, to not be a fat slob.
 

dillj

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discipline as to his body? I doubt it, since he's obviously got no ambition to improve himself.
 
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