Does becoming muscular really help your game?

[Tenacity]

This thread is old as hell lol. But yes, being fit, in shape and having your muscles/6 pack showing increases your overall LOOKS.

Remember, I believe your attraction is based on your weighted average (1 - 10) in Looks, Personality, and Financial Success/Money. Being fit increases your looks measurement.

 

[Dhoulmagus]

Not as much as the other factors matter. You should lift weights only for you, not to get women. It depends on the woman and location mainly. Having a six pack won't help as much in Dallas, Tx rathern than Los Angeles or Miami. Plus, women have so many options that they could be attracted to some fat short ugly guy and not give a ****.

 

[ubercat]

So DM wot should guys b working on then?

 

[zekko]

I've always enjoyed reading threads like this. I'm shocked as to how many guys out there are trying so hard not to believe that having a great looking physique won't boost your game a little bit. It is easier to complicate things than accept them for what they really are. There's a reason why all of the magazines have fit muscular guys on the covers.

Obviously you are always better off being fit than not being fit. My problem with topics like this is that not everybody's difficulties with women are related to the physical. Some guys here seem to give the impression that all you have to do is get ripped, and women will start falling at your feet. That simply is not the case for everyone - I'm sure it is for some. The issues I had with women back when I was younger had nothing to do with my physique, they were about social awkwardness and negative thinking.

I took up lifting around that time, and I feel now that it has benefited me in the long run. But my problems with women at the time did not resolve until I addressed what my real issues were.

 

[SgtSplacker]

One thing i've always noticed is that just taking care of yourself makes a huge difference in how people regard you. I can look at a girl that's not so hot, maybe a little overweight. But if she's dressed and groomed nicely she will turn me on by drawing attention to her better features, and typically a person that knows they are putting their best foot forward will have a better attitude. Works the same for men.

 

[thatfeel]

In my case it would definitely help my game. I always feel self conscious about my body. Having a respectable physique makes it really easy to just not give a fvck about anything. Think zyzz.

 

[ubercat]

Aww c"mon Des you know I'm not that light weight

Point I was trying to make is that science is
1. Looks
2. Money
3. Social status
In that order

Sure guys have to improve everything but everybody is busy and the question is what's the priority.

Lifting is an easy thing you can do to improve your looks. Sure good looking guys with zero game might strike out but good looking guys with minimal game will get laid. Hell I'm no oil painting and I used to get laid with minimal game.

So if DM is saying that getting jacked won't help much. Given that looks as number one and probably 80 percent of the game. Then what is he saying that guys should work on instead of lifting that will improve that 80 percent? If he is saying that you should be working on money or game / fake social status as a higher priority than improving looks then his opinion runs contrary to what has been studied..

 

[Tenacity]

I think it's about Looks, Personality and Financial Substance/Money, without any particular order. You want to be at least a 6 or 7 in each one to be considered "solidly attractive" but the majority of chicks you approach.

Looks includes working out and being cut, but it also is about your smile, your style of dress, your cologne, etc.

Personality is all about being sociable, able to spark up an interesting convo with anybody (not just women), being able to lead a woman into "sex talk" through normal conversation, never being "dull" in terms of being around, being funny, etc.

Financial Substance is having your shyt together and being at least in the middle class, that could be the lower middle class or higher middle class. So with this you should have some type of actual Career rather than random jobs, some type of higher education completion or a certification, etc. You should also stay in a decent place, drive a decent car, and have some money in the bank.

Being a 6 or 7 in each of these makes you attractive, which means "your product" is all set. Now go sell your product to the market. If you approach in person, you should get 40% of the women you approach to exchange numbers, then of the number pile you should end up dating/fvcking about 20% of them, then from your dating/fvck pile, you can pick how you want to proceed which is a short term relationship or some type of long term relationship.

So let's say in a month you approach 50 chicks. That should get you 20 number exchanges. You end up dating/fvckin 4 of them, which means you have 4 plates you are now spinning. You can choose to keep spinning the plates or get into a relationship with one of them and keep the others on the side.

 

[ubercat]

Tenacity s summation is solid. However the scientist did study the order and it is what it is.

So for time poor guys I'd say priority is working on looks:
getting fit
Good haircut
Good style
Good diet
Plenty of sleep

How overall let's see how tenacity is correct and he is.

So let's apply this hierarchy to a first date scenario

Looks gets you over her I might f*** this guy freshhold. As a bonus they also reinforce social status as she looks good to her friends which should mean she gets good feedback from them

If you get designer clothes cheap or a nice big gold wrist watch, expensive fitbit or whatever and pay for drinks on the first date without making an issue of it then your communicating that money isn't a problem.

Get there early strike up a friendship with the staff or other patrons, spit a bit of game on the date then you're at least showing the attributes for social status.

Do this over two dates and that should get you your slice of fur pie.

Now you created plate options. With some savvy selfie posts you can now leverage that into more social status. Rinse and repeat.

Now we're back to tenacity and Des because by keeping to your goals and improving yourself in every aspect of life you stay busy avoid oneitis and maintain frame with the new plates.

Comments?

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Being fit will greatly benefit your looks. Straight up. This is where RSD Tyler (even though I do respect him) is completely wrong. Looks DO play a part. Lifting by going to the gym, just exercising in general really will make a hella lot of difference (I mean, you respect a big 6'7 linebacker more than the computer nerd, let's be real here. )SgtSplacker made a great point on that. It's more than just looks, its about taking care of yourself. People regard you with much more respect when you do actually take care of yourself because it's a form of self-respect. It indirectly says "I know I deserve to look good", plus it shows that because you can take care of yourself, you can take care of others too.

Basic primitive needs, man. It's what women need fulfilled but can't get. If you can't take care of yourself, what makes you think you can take care of others?

 

[SeymourCake]

Muscularity is what separates a man to a woman. It is muscularity that makes us have sexual dimorphism in contrast to women.

Sexual dimorphism meaning, sexual = gender, di = two, morphism = change.

There is biological and anthropological evidence to back up this claiming looking at the animal kingdom. The term the scientist use to describe the difference between male and female species is called "Sexual Dimorphism".

Let us look at some examples of this in nature.

As you can see, there is a drastic difference in aesthetics between male and female species in the wild.

 

[SeymourCake]

In the case of gorillas, there is sexual dimorphism between the male and female species. One would be superior posture, muscularity, and larger canine teeth.

 

[dillj]

What helped me (a ton) was becoming a black belt/teacher and also, winning a lot of combat pistol matches. Knowing damned well that I can always prevail in any physical confrontation, no matter what, was great for my confidence. A women with whom you are walking along can subconsciously tell if you are afraid of a group half a dozen punks on the street.

 

[ubercat]

Hey Espi
R u saying that it might lock u into a provider role?

 

[Who Dares Win]

Im impressed from the amount of guys here saying that muscles dont make too much of a difference as if a random boring girl wouldnt get much more attention with bigger well shaped boobs, straight legs and a hard ass while keeping the same personality and clothing style.

In my case it has been an impressive change in how people behave toward me both men and women.

Women realized that I exist as a man and no longer just as a creature, they grant me the benefit of being considered sexually worth while when I was skinny I was almost treated as neutral person, I have girls come and flirt with me, laughting at my boring jokes and while talking finding any possible way to have physical contact wheter is grabbing my arm while joking or putting a hand on my leg while sitting close to me...sure its because my personality changed.

Regarding men, the amount of provocations or disrespects almost disappeared, no one tries to pass me while on a queue for the cinema or the grocery, guys I dont even know bother to wait untill I leave before trying to steal the girl Im dancing with at the club.

And trust me Im far from being a giant, I managed to get big arms and an overall good shape but nothing closer to kai green or coleman, just 12 kg (guess its about 26pounds) that moved me from 70 to 82kgs made a hell of a difference.

Surely confidence plays a role but that confidence comes from the fact that Im bigger than the average man and being able to face a bigger one having a chance to be the last one standing surely helps, also getting close to women which are much lighter than me on a subconsciuos level make me feel much more dominant and them much more likely to piss me off but again the confidence come ONLY AFTER the clear change in shape.

 

[Dhoulmagus]

What girls find attractive differ from what guys find attractive. Muscles are like boobs to guys. They are attractive, but not as important than other features. A guy can be out of shape and pull more girls than a muscular guy. What we find attractive in a girl is more standardized and less picky. Bob might be into black girls, but he wouldn't turn down an attractive asian girl if given the chance. What girl's find attractive depends on the environment and groupthink. Girl's have the privilege of being picky af and can only go for their preferred type of guys. Girls care more about character than looks. This can be style, personality, race, and etc. Katie will ignore the advances of many muscular guys at a bar, but she will choose to go home with the skinny bearded hipster guy or some Sigma Chi she knew back in college. There's really nothing we can do, but ignore it and find a girl that finds us attractive.

 

[Tenacity]

Im impressed from the amount of guys here saying that muscles dont make too much of a difference...

It's a coping mechanism because they are lazy. Let's face it, muscles, abs, flashy clothes, flashy cars and MONEY in general, all attract women, but it takes a lot of extreme sacrifice for guys to acquire these assets.

Muscles and Abs: Takes discipline in eating and exercise, over a long period of time. Most guys can't do this.

Money and The Things Money Can Buy: It takes hardwork to get to the middle class and/or higher class, to be able to afford to have nice cars, nice clothes, a nice place, a nice watch, etc. Most guys are struggling living paycheck to paycheck.

So when muscles, abs and money are out of REACH for most guys, they cope by saying "they don't matter" and try to focus on intrinsic shyt like how good their "personality" is despite the fact that they are fat, out of shape and broke. The seduction community and seduction gurus are well aware of this, that's why they try to SELL you that looks, muscles and money don't matter, and all you have to do is learn these "natural game personality tactics" and it will get you hot chicks despite your lack of good looks and money.

It's bullshyt.

 

[SamTheHobit]

It's a coping mechanism because they are lazy. Let's face it, muscles, abs, flashy clothes, flashy cars and MONEY in general, all attract women, but it takes a lot of extreme sacrifice for guys to acquire these assets.

Muscles and Abs: Takes discipline in eating and exercise, over a long period of time. Most guys can't do this.

Money and The Things Money Can Buy: It takes hardwork to get to the middle class and/or higher class, to be able to afford to have nice cars, nice clothes, a nice place, a nice watch, etc. Most guys are struggling living paycheck to paycheck.

So when muscles, abs and money are out of REACH for most guys, they cope by saying "they don't matter" and try to focus on intrinsic shyt like how good their "personality" is despite the fact that they are fat, out of shape and broke. The seduction community and seduction gurus are well aware of this, that's why they try to SELL you that looks, muscles and money don't matter, and all you have to do is learn these "natural game personality tactics" and it will get you hot chicks despite your lack of good looks and money.

It's bullshyt.

Agreed. Being working hectic to get a decent physic, abs are a b##ch to get though :/

 

[Tenacity]

Guys we have to do it all:

- You have to get/keep your career going so you are making middle class or higher class level of income

- You have to manage your investments

- You have to get your eating plan and exercise plan going and stay on it, so you build muscle/abs visibility

- You have to keep your car clean, residence clean, clothes nice, etc.

- You have to continually meet new women, manage and spin plates, OR maintain your current monogamous relationship

- If you have kids, you have to take the time to be a good Father

We have to do it ALL. It's going to be hard, but we can't choose one or the another, everything is important. It comes down to efficient Time Management.

 

[thatfeel]

Especially in a relationship. It's like a 1 to 1 tradeoff between being in great shape and having a gf for me.

God isn't this the truth. Try living with a GF and counting calories or macros or watching what you eat. I DARE you. You'll be considering living alone every other day.