Charlie Gordon
Don Juan
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2006
- Messages
- 53
- Reaction score
- 2
This is a response to some posts I've been reading about "self-help" and the quick, one size fits all replies that a lot of questions seem to receive on internet forums... specifically in the context of relationships, dating, attraction, and seduction.
One poster suggested that if you improve your physique, go to school to get the job of your dreams, and dress well that you can sit back and let the women come to you naturally.... another guy became more social, but it's not clear how that was accomplished. Again, the women come naturally...
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=162843
Seemed to work for him.
The problem for a lot of lurkers and posters is that the women are not naturally coming to them... and they won't.
Most guys have all of the ingredients it takes to get laid or find a girlfriend. They were born with most of it and acquired the rest before coming here. Internet forums, pick up artists, and bookstore self-help sections propagate a myth that men aren't getting laid because they are not ambitious enough about their careers, they do not have large enough muscles, they are not tall enough, making women laugh enough, dressing well enough, or cunning enough to invest five thousand dollars in a weekend pick-up seminar taught by some charming pickup guru with a funny hat and makeup. This is absolute bull and driven by marketing. It's a business. Self-help is a business. This is a business.
When I found the community about ten years ago, there were far fewer entrepreneurs and a lot of practical advice (unfortunately mixed with misogyny). There were sites, guides, and lairs devoted to helping men get better at meeting women. Some of the information was downright devious; however, the message was clear that if you were not happy with what you had then you needed to do something about it. At first, simple questions were assigned simple answers... but still, most people resisted those answers and kept about their ways. Very few men made the transformation from frog to prince. Later, the focus shifted from advice on attracting women to overall self-improvement. This was an easier pill to swallow and the community got caught up discussing fashion, deadlifts, and motorcycles. Still, you could sort the forums into those getting laid and those remaining in the dark. The problem with a self-help mentality is that it assumes you need to become a bigger and better version of yourself before you can start enjoying the things you really want. This isn't always true, and it is especially untrue when it comes to meeting women.
Improving career and health should be among every man's goals and small improvements usually trump fantastic efforts; however, there are usually more specific things holding a guy back from having a girlfriend or getting laid. They are usually difficult to deal with emotionally and awkward to deal with socially. Men are typically more comfortable spending an hour in the gym sweating, groaning, and straining to lift heavy piles of metal than dealing with... an emotion. That's why it's easy to sell the self-help package: lift, give up junk food, spend money on trendy stuff. No emotions or social awkwardness involved! But relationships cannot be fixed at the gym or at the expensive clothing store. It's up to you to find out what is holding you back and it's not easy. It's easier to put your faith in someone more "experienced" and accept their algorithm for improvement. It's easier to focus on improving other facets of your life in piecemeal fashion to make the product more appealing. But you are already great the way you are. The truth is that even the most seasoned pick up artist or the happiest married man has not lived a single day in your shoes. I don't know what it's like to be you and the guy spouting advice or selling seduction boot camps certainly does not. They don't know what makes you tick, what you need, and what it will take for you to get there. They can only provide general advice or they can tell you to change how you look, dress, and try to behave. This may work for some, great, but not everyone.
You can get in the best shape possible, dress exceptionally well, pick up a hobby, succeed in your career, and arm yourself with canned material or what you call confidence, and if your problem has nothing to do with all of the above (and it probably doesn't) then you will continue to be disappointed with your love life.
It's difficult to troubleshoot this kind of stuff unless you are extremely introspective and extraordinarily socially adept, or actively seek feedback from women and other men who know that you are trying to meet someone special or meet someone more often. There are many things that we don't like to believe about ourselves even though they are true and getting in the way of life enjoyment. We are often not self-critical or even conscious enough to pick up on these sort of things and it is sometimes helpful to hear about them from someone whom you trust and respect, assuming that you are ready to hear it. And it probably wouldn't confirm your suspicions either. Oh, if only we could all see ourselves through the eyes of others... We get in our own way. Personality is the most constant, persevering part of one's identity and both genetics and early life experiences have gone a long way to forge it. A self-help book will not deconstruct the schemata and defenses we have built to navigate our realities. Our perspectives, values, and desires for comfort steer us towards dispositions and decisions that impact our relationships more than how we look, what we have, or how much we can bench. There are some exceptions and they are about as rare as a walking 10, but it's our tendencies and reactions that matter most and they are governed largely by our subconscious. That is why we will continue to perpetrate the same attitudes and behaviors that prevent us from finding what we want in relationships despite aggressive efforts to become the cool guy, dress elegantly, develop a masculine physique, and become celebrities in our disciplines.
Still, strive for those aforementioned self-improvement goals to the best of your abilities (for the good of your family and for this troubled nation) but be aware that going from failure (or unappreciated success) to self-actualization in the context of relationships may require you to find an honest answer or answers that you may not be ready to accept and subsequently behave in ways that are incongruent with the person you have always received encouragement and reward for being. You will face emotional discomfort and social pressures that you will likely interpret as failure no matter where they may take you. Having a mentor here is priceless, but finding one is inherently difficult since many of us don't know what we need. We'll naturally select the one that comforts us and confirms our suspicions about the world and about ourselves. This mentor will only make you stronger in your convictions and hence, more resistant to change. Isn't that amazing? I'm saying that if someone magically knew what you needed to do, for instance, to meet the girl of your dreams and actually suggested it to you, now, then there is a strong chance that you would shrug him off and walk away laughing.
One poster suggested that if you improve your physique, go to school to get the job of your dreams, and dress well that you can sit back and let the women come to you naturally.... another guy became more social, but it's not clear how that was accomplished. Again, the women come naturally...
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=162843
Seemed to work for him.
The problem for a lot of lurkers and posters is that the women are not naturally coming to them... and they won't.
Most guys have all of the ingredients it takes to get laid or find a girlfriend. They were born with most of it and acquired the rest before coming here. Internet forums, pick up artists, and bookstore self-help sections propagate a myth that men aren't getting laid because they are not ambitious enough about their careers, they do not have large enough muscles, they are not tall enough, making women laugh enough, dressing well enough, or cunning enough to invest five thousand dollars in a weekend pick-up seminar taught by some charming pickup guru with a funny hat and makeup. This is absolute bull and driven by marketing. It's a business. Self-help is a business. This is a business.
When I found the community about ten years ago, there were far fewer entrepreneurs and a lot of practical advice (unfortunately mixed with misogyny). There were sites, guides, and lairs devoted to helping men get better at meeting women. Some of the information was downright devious; however, the message was clear that if you were not happy with what you had then you needed to do something about it. At first, simple questions were assigned simple answers... but still, most people resisted those answers and kept about their ways. Very few men made the transformation from frog to prince. Later, the focus shifted from advice on attracting women to overall self-improvement. This was an easier pill to swallow and the community got caught up discussing fashion, deadlifts, and motorcycles. Still, you could sort the forums into those getting laid and those remaining in the dark. The problem with a self-help mentality is that it assumes you need to become a bigger and better version of yourself before you can start enjoying the things you really want. This isn't always true, and it is especially untrue when it comes to meeting women.
Improving career and health should be among every man's goals and small improvements usually trump fantastic efforts; however, there are usually more specific things holding a guy back from having a girlfriend or getting laid. They are usually difficult to deal with emotionally and awkward to deal with socially. Men are typically more comfortable spending an hour in the gym sweating, groaning, and straining to lift heavy piles of metal than dealing with... an emotion. That's why it's easy to sell the self-help package: lift, give up junk food, spend money on trendy stuff. No emotions or social awkwardness involved! But relationships cannot be fixed at the gym or at the expensive clothing store. It's up to you to find out what is holding you back and it's not easy. It's easier to put your faith in someone more "experienced" and accept their algorithm for improvement. It's easier to focus on improving other facets of your life in piecemeal fashion to make the product more appealing. But you are already great the way you are. The truth is that even the most seasoned pick up artist or the happiest married man has not lived a single day in your shoes. I don't know what it's like to be you and the guy spouting advice or selling seduction boot camps certainly does not. They don't know what makes you tick, what you need, and what it will take for you to get there. They can only provide general advice or they can tell you to change how you look, dress, and try to behave. This may work for some, great, but not everyone.
You can get in the best shape possible, dress exceptionally well, pick up a hobby, succeed in your career, and arm yourself with canned material or what you call confidence, and if your problem has nothing to do with all of the above (and it probably doesn't) then you will continue to be disappointed with your love life.
It's difficult to troubleshoot this kind of stuff unless you are extremely introspective and extraordinarily socially adept, or actively seek feedback from women and other men who know that you are trying to meet someone special or meet someone more often. There are many things that we don't like to believe about ourselves even though they are true and getting in the way of life enjoyment. We are often not self-critical or even conscious enough to pick up on these sort of things and it is sometimes helpful to hear about them from someone whom you trust and respect, assuming that you are ready to hear it. And it probably wouldn't confirm your suspicions either. Oh, if only we could all see ourselves through the eyes of others... We get in our own way. Personality is the most constant, persevering part of one's identity and both genetics and early life experiences have gone a long way to forge it. A self-help book will not deconstruct the schemata and defenses we have built to navigate our realities. Our perspectives, values, and desires for comfort steer us towards dispositions and decisions that impact our relationships more than how we look, what we have, or how much we can bench. There are some exceptions and they are about as rare as a walking 10, but it's our tendencies and reactions that matter most and they are governed largely by our subconscious. That is why we will continue to perpetrate the same attitudes and behaviors that prevent us from finding what we want in relationships despite aggressive efforts to become the cool guy, dress elegantly, develop a masculine physique, and become celebrities in our disciplines.
Still, strive for those aforementioned self-improvement goals to the best of your abilities (for the good of your family and for this troubled nation) but be aware that going from failure (or unappreciated success) to self-actualization in the context of relationships may require you to find an honest answer or answers that you may not be ready to accept and subsequently behave in ways that are incongruent with the person you have always received encouragement and reward for being. You will face emotional discomfort and social pressures that you will likely interpret as failure no matter where they may take you. Having a mentor here is priceless, but finding one is inherently difficult since many of us don't know what we need. We'll naturally select the one that comforts us and confirms our suspicions about the world and about ourselves. This mentor will only make you stronger in your convictions and hence, more resistant to change. Isn't that amazing? I'm saying that if someone magically knew what you needed to do, for instance, to meet the girl of your dreams and actually suggested it to you, now, then there is a strong chance that you would shrug him off and walk away laughing.