More mind games, and a few great moments.

[jophil28]

This is a follow up to the events of my recent post entitled " The counseling profession and their mindgames".
Frankly, I was astounded at the large number of responses . It seems that I hit some nerves around here.

Anyways, do you recall the story about my planned date with SW, and my subsequent walkout of her house after pacing her living room while she blabbed to her girl about some guy ?

Well, SW turned up, as usual, to our social dance club Tuesday night.
I had a student for a private lesson from 7 to 8pm and SW arrived at about 7 and just sat and watched us with a 'look' on her face.

At about 8pm my 22 year old hottie showed up. She had agreed to be my female demonstrator for the group class from 8pm to 10pm. She looks as good as she dances....

Long story short - SW walks up to me at about 9pm -

SW, " So Jophil, are you going to dance with me tonight or are you all crazy for Zana ( 22 year old) ?"

Jophil (smirks) ," Zana would love to hear that she gets me crazy. Don't tell her, can you keep my secret..lets keep her guessing.."

SW (pouts)," Well,I am not as good as she is - she had all that ballet training . Anyways, how about dancing me around the floor"

Jophil," OK, do you want me to put you back where I found you when we are done?"

SW ( scowls)," Come on.." (Leads me onto floor where I take her in closed dance hold. I am waiting for her to take a dig at me for walking out of her house.) SW dances badly- she feels rigid and heavy.

SW blurts out," Do you always walk out on women just before a date?"

Jophil, "No, just the ones who act badly.."

SW," I was talking to my girlfriend - she was upset, And she thinks you are rude."

SW, " She thinks that you are a freak".

Jophil," Yeah, I can see why she thinks that. Hey, stop wrestling me ( we are slow dancing). Men lead and women follow."

SW, "Yeah yeah,. but I only take the steps that I 'choose' to take."

Jophil," Really, a feminist eh ? Men make all the decisions on a dance floor. Women have no say at all - Perhaps you should try ten-pin bowling instead of partner dancing ."

SW, ( getting exasperated) " You are such an a**hole. Are you gonna buy me dinner to make it up to me for walking out?"

Jophil," Hmm, perhaps you should cook for me instead."

SW," WHAT? why should I? "

Jophil, " Just because I say so... Excuse me " ( Zana approaches looking to cut in) . I walk away with Zana.

More socializing until 11pm whem SW comes over and announces that she is departing...she is looking for me to say 'something'..

SW, fluff talk and then," You know Jophil, I think that I might find another studio . I am making no progress here."

Jophil," Yeah, you felt like a fridge on wheels tonight. Perhaps you could ask the boss for a refund . Have you planned the menu yet for the dinner you are gonna cook for me ?"

SW, " You are totally selfish. Impossible ! "

Jophil," I try my best."

SW swivels on her heels and storms out with nose sniffing the breeze.

The games never end...do they ?

 

[Tazman]

What's crazy is how relentless they are. They would rather go through all the drama and games then to even acknowledge their own bad behavior, let alone own up to it.

 

[zekko]

It is hilarious the way she refuses to take any responsibility for her behavior. A question: When she was on the phone, did she try to make any apology at all for making you late? Like "Sorry I'm taking so long, my girlfriend is a real mess"?

You handled it well, of course. I will be curious to see if she invites you to dinner now If I were her, I would next you after all that, but with women who knows?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The drama IS the reward.

Indignation triggers a very addictive biochemical rush for women, and in the absence of it they'll manufacture it for themselves (romance novels, gossip, salaciousness, Oprah, etc.). SW was building this up for the past few days and JOPHIL just gave her a fix. She was practically marinating in her own endorphins.

Prediction: she'll come back for more. Addicts always do.

 

[mrRuckus]

Frankly, I was astounded at the large number of responses . It seems that I hit some nerves around here.

I'd say because most of us still haven't completely gotten our heads wrapped around the fact that walking away or putting a woman in her place without some long speech they don't care about or can't comprehend just plain works. There's stories all around here constantly where guys are sticking it out until the bitter end only to realize they should've done some sort of response like you do way earlier, which would've saved them a lot of face and aggravation.

If a girl is acting up and threatens to leave, just saying "there's the door" is tough to say and still 'feels' counterintuitive.

 

[Tazman]

The drama IS the reward.

You know, I keep forgetting about this, how much women thrive on this.

 

[Die Hard]

Of course you hit some nerves lol, you do what we want to do (but we just want to do it, we never actually do it)

I find these stories of yours extremely stimulating, whenever I have contact with women and notice I'm not being dominant, I sometimes say to myself: "Think of that guy from SS (I often can't remember your name at those moments), how would he act right now?"

Please keep inspiring us by telling about your encounters!

 

[jophil28]

...walking away or putting a woman in her place without some long speech they don't care about or can't comprehend ... just saying "there's the door" is tough to say and still 'feels' counterintuitive.

Indeed it does, and believe me, there was a part of me that really wanted to take her outside read her the whole Riot Act, Chapter and Verse. However, based on past experience, that rarely achieves the desired result . In fact a rant usually makes the situation worse because she feels indignant about being 'lectured" and that shifts the focus onto the guy's "anger".

ROLLO's reply explains why she was eager to engage me in the encounter and continue the banter around the dance floor when it became obvious that I was not going to 'apologize'.
It was obvious that she felt (or at least acted) severly indignant- she really believed that she was faultless and that my walking out of her house was a hanging offense. So why did she approach me again at dance class rather than just ignore me ?
The love of drama and the chemical rush is probably the prime motivator . In addition, I think that she also wanted to 'prevail' via an attempt at reclaiming the frame.

She will be back, but by now I expect her to be recuiting 'backup' from the 'committee' ...interesting times ahead.

I doubt whether she will cook me dinner as a peace offering - to do so would acknowledge that she owes me reparation ...not likely, Forrest.

 

[jophil28]

If a girl is acting up and threatens to leave, just saying "there's the door" is tough to say and still 'feels' counterintuitive.

Of course it feels 'wrong'. We are are raise to act in the opposite way.

I have to frequently fight the urge to "communicate" in the conventional and oft preached manner. It does work however, for women only.

Rememeber Charles Branson?

 

[jophil28]

Dupe post

 

[Die Hard]

What movie of him are you referring at? I like to watch movies about real men lately Watched "Heat" again this week, Deniro and Pacino were both real men. Particularly Deniro's rule to not get attached to anything (a woman), always being able to walk away from it within 30 seconds of feeling the heat coming around the corner. In the end, he actually does walk away from her when he feels the heat coming around the corner... 'A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do' applies very well to this movie.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

jophil is an AFC masquerading as a DJ. It comes through this conversation. You were personally insulted she wasn't ready, and want an apology from her. In order to do that, you must get her to admit she was wrong. That will never, ever happen. Just like you can never judge a woman by her word, and only by her actions, you can never teach her by your word. Only by your actions.

SW blurts out," Do you always walk out on women just before a date?"

Jophil, "No, just the ones who act badly.."

here you made a value judgment on her behavior. You you expect her to accept. A better response would have been:

"What do you mean? Our date was at seven, and you weren't ready, so I left. I respect my time, and only hang out with others that do so as well."

SW," I was talking to my girlfriend - she was upset, And she thinks you are rude."

SW, " She thinks that you are a freak".

this requires no response. maybe a disinterested "oh really."

Jophil," Yeah, I can see why she thinks that. Hey, stop wrestling me ( we are slow dancing). Men lead and women follow."

if you ever feel the need to "tell" a woman how it's "supposed" to be, then it's too late. cut it and move on.

SW, "Yeah yeah,. but I only take the steps that I 'choose' to take."

Here is where you should have left. But you needed to take another shot at getting her to apologize for wounding your ego.

Jophil," Really, a feminist eh ? Men make all the decisions on a dance floor. Women have no say at all - Perhaps you should try ten-pin bowling instead of partner dancing ."

here again you try and tell her the way things are "supposed" to be.

SW, ( getting exasperated) " You are such an a**hole. Are you gonna buy me dinner to make it up to me for walking out?"

Jophil," Hmm, perhaps you should cook for me instead."

SW," WHAT? why should I? "

Jophil, " Just because I say so... Excuse me " ( Zana approaches looking to cut in) . I walk away with Zana.

here we have to people with wounded ego's fighting like two kids over who should apologize first.

SW, fluff talk and then," You know Jophil, I think that I might find another studio . I am making no progress here."

Jophil," Yeah, you felt like a fridge on wheels tonight. Perhaps you could ask the boss for a refund . Have you planned the menu yet for the dinner you are gonna cook for me ?"

SW, " You are totally selfish. Impossible ! "

Jophil," I try my best."

one more time, she says "apologize to me!" and jophil says "no, apologize to me!"

The games never end...do they ?

they end when you don't play. When you don't involve your ego and expect every woman that doesn't behave the way you "expect" her to to realize that your model of reality is the "correct" one that to come begging for forgiveness.

Some snide witty comments on the dance floor don't make for a DJ. Only the ability to disqualify and walk away, physically and mentally can get you there.

Only if this girl called you on her own accord WITHOUT INSTRUCTIONS FROM YOU and offered an apology should you accept. Otherwise it's only a battle of the egos, and who is better at manipulating the other.

Oh I know, you're not asking for advice, you're just here providing a learning experience. Perhaps guys can read this and learn how NOT to behave with a woman who disrespects your time.

NEVER, EVER EXPECT AN APOLOGY FROM A WOMAN for her actions. Just disqualify her and find somebody else.

This can be the absolute hardest thing in the world to do, but unless you want a life filled with epic ego battles of manipulation, it's the only way.

 

[Jitterbug]

FFS, taiyu, a DJ should have some fun too!

Your idea of a DJ sounds like a really boring guy.

 

[window]

SW, fluff talk and then," You know Jophil, I think that I might find another studio . I am making no progress here."

Jophil," Yeah, you felt like a fridge on wheels tonight. Perhaps you could ask the boss for a refund . Have you planned the menu yet for the dinner you are gonna cook for me ?"

it's all good except for this part...you can be alpha and call them out but there is no need to be critical of a person. I dont think she'll be back after a comment like this...

 

[Jitterbug]

it's all good except for this part...you can be alpha and call them out but there is no need to be critical of a person. I dont think she'll be back after a comment like this...

I don't know. Plenty of women repeatedly come back to men who say or do much much worse things to them.

 

[window]

not ones with good self esteem...

 

[Die Hard]

Then we should not look for girls with good self esteem, eh?

 

[jophil28]

jophil is an AFC masquerading as a DJ. It comes through this conversation. You were personally insulted she wasn't ready, and want an apology from her. In order to do that, you must get her to admit she was wrong. That will never, ever happen. Just like you can never judge a woman by her word, and only by her actions, you can never teach her by your word. Only by your actions.



here you made a value judgment on her behavior. You you expect her to accept. A better response would have been:

"What do you mean? Our date was at seven, and you weren't ready, so I left. I respect my time, and only hang out with others that do so as well."



this requires no response. maybe a disinterested "oh really."





if you ever feel the need to "tell" a woman how it's "supposed" to be, then it's too late. cut it and move on.



Here is where you should have left. But you needed to take another shot at getting her to apologize for wounding your ego.



here again you try and tell her the way things are "supposed" to be.



here we have to people with wounded ego's fighting like two kids over who should apologize first.



one more time, she says "apologize to me!" and jophil says "no, apologize to me!"



they end when you don't play. When you don't involve your ego and expect every woman that doesn't behave the way you "expect" her to to realize that your model of reality is the "correct" one that to come begging for forgiveness.

Some snide witty comments on the dance floor don't make for a DJ. Only the ability to disqualify and walk away, physically and mentally can get you there.

Only if this girl called you on her own accord WITHOUT INSTRUCTIONS FROM YOU and offered an apology should you accept. Otherwise it's only a battle of the egos, and who is better at manipulating the other.

Oh I know, you're not asking for advice, you're just here providing a learning experience. Perhaps guys can read this and learn how NOT to behave with a woman who disrespects your time.

NEVER, EVER EXPECT AN APOLOGY FROM A WOMAN for her actions. Just disqualify her and find somebody else.

This can be the absolute hardest thing in the world to do, but unless you want a life filled with epic ego battles of manipulation, it's the only way.

I was aware when I started the first thread, that my 'word by word' FR's were likely to invite dissent and ridicule from the shadows.

Thank you for your opinions.

 

[Jitterbug]

not ones with good self esteem...

The SW in jophil's story doesn't appear to be a HSE one. She's treated exactly the way she should be.

 

[backbreaker]

I actually agree with tayauu.. the fact that jophil even gives a **** with this girl thinks reeks of fundmental AFCism to the core.

the only difference here is that jophile is a 52 year old man in a dance club and not an 18 year old kid at school.

It doesn't matter WHAt you say and how it's taken by people here... the fact that you even think it worth while to post a blow by blow about a woman who wants to blow by blow by blow 3 guys at once speaks for itself.