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Dissolving My Marriage

Bokanovsky

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Not at all. My first husband became depressed and an alcoholic after his business fiasco.
I'm fairly certain that wedding vows say "till death do us part", not "till one of us becomes depressed". Regardless of your reasons (which may or may not be legitimate as we haven't heard your ex-husband's side of the story), you can't deny the fact that you broke your wedding vows. Now it's one thing to say that those vows are merely ceremonial and don't mean sh!t, but you seem to be putting a religious spin on it and accusing EyeBRollin (who is not my favourite poster either) of "breaking vows before God". Sorry babes but that makes you a hypocrite, whether you like it or not.
 

EyeBRollin

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That's why marriage is $hit, and all the BS about until death do us part.

@BeExcellent shouldn't have to put with alcoholism with her ex. But @Bokanovsky is right, she broke the sacred vows by getting divorced.
No, the death do us part is real. It’s modern society that has this screwed up. The key to staying married is…don’t get a divorce.

With the exception of domestic violence, couples need to work whatever it is out.
 

Slowhandluke

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marriage is trying to achieve something that is difficult. To harshly penalize the man to the point where he loses his kids, loses his financial well being or at a point of him contemplating suicide because he failed. BUT yet allow women to just walk away because her husband got depression and got addicted to alcohol.

yeah, the vows were till death due us part... not, only fun times... only good times. it's total BS. we excuse one part of the union, but we totally trash the other side. marriage is difficult.

it's hard on both sides of the equation. because of this, most people should not marry. if women want LTR, they have to see that men are humans also. if not, the c0ck carousel is always available.
 
M

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marriage is trying to achieve something that is difficult. To harshly penalize the man to the point where he loses his kids, loses his financial well being or at a point of him contemplating suicide because he failed. BUT yet allow women to just walk away because her husband got depression and got addicted to alcohol.

yeah, the vows were till death due us part... not, only fun times... only good times. it's total BS. we excuse one part of the union, but we totally trash the other side. marriage is difficult.

it's hard on both sides of the equation. because of this, most people should not marry. if women want LTR, they have to see that men are humans also. if not, the c0ck carousel is always available.
Fair enough but sincere question.

When a wife or serious girlfriend discovers her husband/boyfriend cheated for no other reason than he found some other woman hot, and she loses respect for him, how does she gain that respect back such that she can in good faith remain in the marriage or relationship?

If she leaves, this is not her punishing him, it's simply that she cannot remain in a marriage or relationship with a man she has little or no respect for and cannot trust. Try as she might for the marriage, she has no control over this.

Same for men when women cheat. I highly doubt a man would remain with a woman who cheated for the same reason. Or is that different and he's within his rights to leave but she's not?

Yeah in a Disney movie they'd work it out or try but when there is a lost of trust and respect, I think that's an idealistic way of viewing it.

That said I wholeheartedly agree it's wrong to divorce rape him in the courts and prevent him from seeing his kids or badmouthing him to the kids or anyone.

That's horrible and hurts everyone mostly the kids. Thank goodness my mom didn't do that with my dad when he left.
 
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BeExcellent

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That's why marriage is $hit, and all the BS about until death do us part.

@BeExcellent shouldn't have to put with alcoholism with her ex. But @Bokanovsky is right, she broke the sacred vows by getting divorced.
The vows are important taken together. You vow to "honor and cherish" a wife too in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Even the Bible sets forth legitimate reasons for divorce, and sexual infidelity tops the list.

Alcoholism is terribly unhealthy. It neither honors not cherishes. I held up my end of the bargain. I supported him through poorer, when he lost his business, I carried the family on my own back for more than 10 years (during which time he had every opportunity to get help, with me encouraging that & offering to pay for it), I did everything I could to stay together. He did not care enough about himself and/or the addiction, which truly became his mistress in a way), he abdicated his responsibilities as a man that he vowed to uphold.

The thing is that if one spouse decides to entirely disrespect, disregard the welfare of the spouse/children and breach the trust? The relationship, even a marriage, unravels.

I completely lost respect for my first husband as a man because he simply decided to crawl in a bottle and check out.

If my husband were to cheat? That creates a similar non-overcomable breach in trust.

Both of those things are insurmountable things brought on by irresponsible behavior. Essentially in the marriage vows you commit to acting responsible and caring for one another through thick and thin.

Neither cheating nor becoming an alcolholic uphold that commitment. So if one party takes liberty with that commitment? The commitment then is worthless and the other party should not be bound by it.

Go cheat you guys. And don't come cry here when you find out your wives have also taken lovers. You are the leader. As you do, so is she free to do.

Men have wanted to have their cake & eat it too forever. Some get away with it. Men who value their women don't do it.

And if you don't think female sexuality cannot be wanton? Well then you are truly naive. Sex is on one level about power. Women have used sex to gain power for thousands of years. Cleopatra and many others.

So don't have the naive idea that women don't have sexual urges, desires & fantasies just like men do. Women are expected to tolerate men's indiscretions but men simply cannot handle women having sexual freedom & this is why entire socities do everything to defuse, shame, hide, cover up or otherwise dampen female sexuality. It is far more powerful potentially, hence the seeking to control it through millennia.

Reminds me of a crass joke I once heard:

Men each have 1 pe nis. With a pu ssy a woman can have as many pe nises as she pleases.

This makes men's heads explode. So fathers protect chastity, men want virgins, low body counts, etc. God forbid a woman discovers the kind of sexual power she has. Whose children are those? Who knows. That is what underpins everything, taming/damping female sexuality. Its not that it doesn't exist. Quite the reverse gentlemen. Men FEAR female sexuality run amuck and seek to contain it.
 

EyeBRollin

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Fair enough but sincere question.

When a wife or serious girlfriend discovers her husband/boyfriend cheated for no other reason than he found some other woman hot, and she loses respect for him, how does she gain that respect back such that she can in good faith remain in the marriage or relationship?
I believe this is a sincere question because it is being asked from a position of leverage. That is the modern female delusion. It is the woman’s responsibility to keep the relationship, not vice versa.

My sincere question back - how do you reconcile the reality for women that have dumped boyfriends / husbands due to sexual cheating - they end up alone or with a new guy that also sexually cheats?
 
M

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My sincere question back - how do you reconcile the reality for women that have dumped boyfriends / husbands due to sexual cheating - they end up alone or with a new guy that also sexually cheats
I can't really speak for other women only myself.

My response is firstly, I have no problem being on my own. I seek a relationship with a man to 'enhance' my already happy life, NOT for his wallet or his dyck other than to say if I'm highly attracted and in love, I love HIS dyck.

But I don't and never have needed dyck with just any Tom, D*ck or Harry OR even some Chad. Just not how I'm wired. And I have my own money.

I have many options and get approached often (I'm in SoCal so of course!) but unless I feel that somethin somethin (hard to describe but know it when I feel it), I'd actually prefer to be on my own. So that has never been an issue for me..

Secondly, re connecting with another man who cheats, well, and I say this with all sincerity, I trust unless and until a man gives me reason not to.

If I was cheated on in the past, I don't carry that shyt with me into my next relationship. I do have issues but TRUST issues I do not have.

So I trust him and if HE cheats on me, I lose trust (and respect) and leave.

Lather rinse repeat until I find a man who values honesty and fidelity in an exclusive serious relationship.

That said believe or not I'm open to a non-monogamous relationship but it would only be with a man with whom there was a high level of basic trust between us and respect who had my best interests at heart and I his.

I'm not so rigid to not consider alternative ways of relating and a more unconventional approach to conducting my relationships.

In fact, I am kinda leaning towards non-monogamy because as has been discussed in this thread (and I knew this even before this thread), with the amount of cheating and deception that occurs, it might be a more realistic and pragmatic way of viewing relationships versus having a man sneaking behind my back and cheating.

That would feel utterly horrible and demoralizing.
 
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AmsterdamAssassin

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After sixteen years together, my wife and mother of our two children broke her vows and initiated divorce while I was recuperating from my third kidney stone surgery in two years. She chose to abandon me when I was at my lowest point in my life, suffering from chronic pain issues that made her unhappy because my sickness brought her down and her toxic friends told her she could do better.

That was seven years ago.

She's not much happier now.

But I am.
 

EyeBRollin

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After sixteen years together, my wife and mother of our two children broke her vows and initiated divorce while I was recuperating from my third kidney stone surgery in two years. She chose to abandon me when I was at my lowest point in my life, suffering from chronic pain issues that made her unhappy because my sickness brought her down and her toxic friends told her she could do better.

That was seven years ago.

She's not much happier now.

But I am.
Jesus. Really sorry to hear this. Glad you are doing better. Hopefully on good terms with your children?

These stories are saddening to read. What happened to the commitment? What’s this “happiness” BS?
 

EyeBRollin

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Modern woman have a blind spot where they simply cannot understand what men go through in 2024. For example, the post below is well intentioned but is textbook the modern man’s struggle:

My response is firstly, I have no problem being on my own. I seek a relationship with a man to 'enhance' my already happy life, NOT for his wallet or his dyck other than to say if I'm highly attracted and in love, I love HIS dyck.

But I don't and never have needed dyck with just any Tom, D*ck or Harry OR even some Chad. Just not how I'm wired. And I have my own money.
Well intended this may be, this mindset is bad for modern dating. You think you dont “need” a man because we have civilized the west so well.

Truth is- women need man. Women cannot survive without men. The creature comforts we have come from men. The infrastructure, law enforcement, military, trades… overwhelmingly men. In 2024, seems the government replaced man.

I have many options but unless I feel that somethin somethin (hard to describe but know it when I feel it), I'd actually prefer to be on my own. So that has never been an issue for me..
Why is there a need to “feel” butterflies for a man? We aren’t teenagers. What about family? Building something with a man? Someone to caretake when we get old? Isn’t that better than being alone?

Secondly, re connecting with another man who cheats, well, and I say this with all sincerity, I trust unless and until a man gives me reason not to.

If I was cheated on in the past, I don't carry that shyt with me into my next relationship. I do have issues but TRUST issues I do not have.

So I trust him and if HE cheats on me, I lose trust (and respect) and leave.
Lather rinse repeat until I find a man who values honesty and fidelity in an exclusive serious relationship.
Men, this is straight from the cats meow. She’ll go through man after man, searching for a loyal alpha. There’s no self reflection or re-examination of standards. Women want what they want. No matter how insane the odds.

That said believe or not I'm open to a non-monogamous relationship but it would only be with a man with whom there was a high level of basic trust between us and respect who had my best interests at heart and I his.

I'm not so rigid to not consider alternative ways of relating and a more unconventional approach to conducting my relationships.

In fact, I am kinda leaning towards non-monogamy because as has been discussed in this thread (and I knew this even before this thread), with the amount of cheating and deception that occurs, it might be a more realistic and pragmatic way of viewing relationships versus having a man sneaking behind my back and cheating.

That would feel utterly horrible and demoralizing.
This is more reasonable and pragmatic way of thinking. Though in practice few women socialized in the west can tolerate sharing a man.

The million dollar question: would you rather have:

-average guy, averaging looking with no ambition, 100% loyal / monogamous

-or share a tall, handsome, successful man?
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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Jesus. Really sorry to hear this. Glad you are doing better. Hopefully on good terms with your children?
Yes, the children are happy. They're usually with me during the schoolweek and with my ex on the weekends, when I enjoy myself with my lovers.
 
M

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Truth is- women need man.
Yes of course I need a man but not just any man. When I feel that certain connection with a particular man which I can sense you don't really understand, I need HIM.

I have no desire to share my man and would expect him to be mindful and respectful of our relationship and be cautious and discreet IF he ever felt the need to step out. Ideally he wouldn't but in a non-monogamous relationship, the option is there.

I would do the same although I'm not wired to desire sex with a man unless I'm highly attracted (beyond the physical) and/or in love so it's highly unlikely that would ever happen.

Look, you don't know me so it's probably natural for you to lump me in with all the utterly shallow and entitled women you encounter and have encountered in the past, same for other men here.

And at this point I'm not so stupid to say "I'm different" so I won't.

As I have said before we, we are on two entirely different wavelengths which is fine but it makes any further discussion between us futile, no disrespect.

Live your life as you deem fit EyeB, and I will do same.

I know you've said happiness is a Disney fairytale but I truly do wish happiness for you.
 
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EyeBRollin

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Yes of course I need a man but not just any man. When I feel that certain connection with a particular man which I can sense you don't really understand, I need HIM.

I have no desire to share my man
Men, straight from the cats meow. Modern women want exceptional men. Not average. And they are not willing to share him, despite all their female peers wanting the same few exceptional men. No matter how many other women are around him, they want loyal alphas. This is why modern women are dying alone.

^^^ Modern dating and divorce Exhibit A.
 
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M

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Modern women want exceptional men.
Lol good God EyeB, yes exceptional to me! NOT based on his looks, status or money but how WE connect. Beyond the superficial

And again for the love of all things beautiful please stop with this "are you listening gentlemen" BS, you have no clue who I truly am, what I feel, what I desire, my hopes and dreams, what I'm about.

You're projecting what I post based on your jaded experiences with women and It's highly disrespectful.

Of course you will twist this too into something negative however I needed to say something because it's getting ridiculous.

I've tried to understand your POV and have been respectful and would request the same courtesy.

Human being to Human being.

Thank you.
 

Slowhandluke

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Fair enough but sincere question.

When a wife or serious girlfriend discovers her husband/boyfriend cheated for no other reason than he found some other woman hot, and she loses respect for him, how does she gain that respect back such that she can in good faith remain in the marriage or relationship?
depending on the woman and how she was raised, she many never gain that respect back. that's her choice and up bringing (and the culture she was raised in).

in the past, in some societies, if the woman was not a virgin, the man could divorce and get his dowry back.

if a man expected that today, he would probably never marry. our choices and the consequences of which are dictated by reality.

if a woman expects the man to be perfect, she may continuously be married and divorced. or never be capable of being married in the first place.

however, society moves forward. people want to reproduce. a lot of them will and it could be in an arrangement that is not a marriage.

man no longer expect virigin brides. they adapted. women still think they can control man's impulses through marriage. they are wrong. marriage rates go down.

reality... have any value you want. and ethics you want... but reality will dictate the consequences.

old generation thinks marriage is this special thing. the younger generation sees it as a trap for men (divorce court, high expectations, honey do list, etc..) young men don't really marry as much anymore. that is the current reality.

instead, women are childless or are forced on the the c0ck carousel. is this much better than the past where wives were more forgiving to their husband's dalliance?

whatever... be like water...
 

Divorced w 3

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I'm fairly certain that wedding vows say "till death do us part", not "till one of us becomes depressed". Regardless of your reasons (which may or may not be legitimate as we haven't heard your ex-husband's side of the story), you can't deny the fact that you broke your wedding vows. Now it's one thing to say that those vows are merely ceremonial and don't mean sh!t, but you seem to be putting a religious spin on it and accusing EyeBRollin (who is not my favourite poster either) of "breaking vows before God". Sorry babes but that makes you a hypocrite, whether you like it or not.
That line about death doing us part was written by human beings. It’s supposed to be a serious consideration for people. The reason it’s serious is because you’re making someone financially and potentially legally involved in the rest of your life whether you like it or not, whether you make a lot of money or not. Doesn’t matter. They are entitled to just about half of it.

With that said, deals go bad. You can get out of deals if you treat them as such going in.

I just told my girlfriend that she and I would have to discuss a prenuptial and it would need to include holding back alimony unless children were born, my rationale being that it she’s working and on her feet, why am I giving her a safety net. That went over like acid rain. It wasn’t always this way. Instead of mentioning this leading up, she played me and delayed by six weeks the rent due and changed her position on alimony, rent and expenses until the day her tenant would have been at a month from move in.
 

Bokanovsky

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That line about death doing us part was written by human beings. It’s supposed to be a serious consideration for people. The reason it’s serious is because you’re making someone financially and potentially legally involved in the rest of your life whether you like it or not, whether you make a lot of money or not. Doesn’t matter. They are entitled to just about half of it.

With that said, deals go bad. You can get out of deals if you treat them as such going in.

I just told my girlfriend that she and I would have to discuss a prenuptial and it would need to include holding back alimony unless children were born, my rationale being that it she’s working and on her feet, why am I giving her a safety net. That went over like acid rain. It wasn’t always this way. Instead of mentioning this leading up, she played me and delayed by six weeks the rent due and changed her position on alimony, rent and expenses until the day her tenant would have been at a month from move in.
A vow is not a "deal". It's a type of oath. If you join the military and take an oath to defend your country, you can't later decide that it was a bad deal and go AWOL. If you do that, you will get charged with desertion and court marshalled. If you take an oath in court to tell the truth and it is later discovered that you lied, you could be charged with perjury. But apparently you can take an oath to stay with your husband or wife “till death do us part” and bail whenever things are no longer to your liking. This is why I have never been a fan of marriage. It is such a hypocritical custom.
 

BeExcellent

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What I see too much now is people trying to "get over" on one another. Lazy. Meaning there are women AND men who think if they can only find someone wealthy, or at least with more than they have, all their woes are handled and they can relax and enjoy life on someone else's dime & effort.

People get entitled. I'd be very careful @Divorced w 3 about someone who doesn't want to sign a pre-nup. They are not bullet proof, nothing is, but it's the attitude behind it you have to observe. My current husband and I didn't do one, but everything I own was already in a trust years before I met him. An irrevocable trust with lifelong friends at the helm and set to benefit my children and my first husband, and after he dies? My children.

We own no property except our respective cars/personal stuff and each make 6 figures. We split living expenses and basically take turns on entertainment expenses. I have an inventory of jewelry and art and heirlooms that predates the marriage and state statute is clear that property owned prior to the marriage is seperate. He has a sizable 401K I'd never try to reach, even though some contributions have been since marriage. We are each self sufficient. Were we to split we'd go back to being self sufficient.

If we buy a house (which I think is a terrible investment unless it produces income) he can pick the house. We can form our own trust to own it and set it up as a partnership agreement that respects our contribution to that purchase (or lack thereof).

That's very different than a couple starting out who plan to have children (like my son and his fiance) and very different than a union where one person substantially has more than the other.

My best girlfriend will marry a multimillionnaire in two weeks. They are totally in love with each other; both have assets and grown children. They just hammered out a pre-nup. He wanted her to retire & travel & golf with him. He knows that means she is giving up her financial engine to support herself, and he knows this means he needs to support her. She had no issue signing. She wants her assets she had prior to marriage preserved for her kids, so does he, and they've worked out the rest.

But many people are greedy and on the take. Be careful about that.
 
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