Your thoughts please

[Last Man Standing]

so act disinterested as if she was really a girl i wasnt sexually attracted to? how can i do this yet retain a friendship with her? for example, if im constantly blowing her off saying im busy, wont she eventually get the hint and stop all attempts/communication?

Your best chance to get a girl is when she is single - as she is now. If she isn't biting now then your chances are slim. You made your interest known - she knows this!!

 

[Obsidian]

good move. You don't need to be hanging out with a girl you find attractive who doesn't want you.

Keep looking for someone with high interest. If you're working to improve yourself, you'll find her!

 

[cNfny]

This girl was my first "love" as I was hers. For some reason she has always felt to keep me around as her "friend" while she goes out lookin for guys who have my qualities (really bizarre even friends/family notice this) I just don't understand her mindset. Any ideas?

 

[cNfny]

Bump

 

[Bonhomme]

The idea is always to have a much fun with a situation as possible. Making yourself irresistible with your confidence and humor is how "turn arounds" happen. At very least, you have a bit of fun and boost your perceived value.

Best thing to do is simply to call her bluff woth a "devil may care" attitude, acting on the assumption it's her treat. That could be pretty amusing, at very least.

Assuming she knows you're not involved with anyone

Her: you should come to turkey with me and we can stop in Paris! haha

You: Sounds groovy ... but before you rush out to pick up my ticket, you know I'm pretty busy (whenever you're busy), but (whenever you might be available) could be do-able. I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, unless it's obviously diseased.

 

[KontrollerX]

"This girl was my first "love" as I was hers. For some reason she has always felt to keep me around as her "friend" while she goes out lookin for guys who have my qualities (really bizarre even friends/family notice this) I just don't understand her mindset. Any ideas?"

I hate that sh!t.

I think its because she probably believes that friends are forever so she'll always have you for whatever qualities she values in you so long as she keeps you for a friend whereas if she got involved in a relationship with you things have a chance of going bad somewhere down the line, you two break up and then she loses her perfect friend with all the qualities that make her feel so good when she's hanging around you.

She searches for other guys with your qualities so she can get an intimate relationship and friendship with that guy basically all the things she wants while you are kept on the back burner incase things with her current man go badly.

As when whatever current relationship she is in ends she never really loses anything since you are right there to fill in for the emotional gap and fun time needs that her breakup left her with.

You are being used and kept around as filler basically without all the benefits of actually being in a relationship with her (hot sex) until she finds the next guy.

 

[cNfny]

Wow that's enlightening. Should I walk away without explaining why or should I say something?

 

[KontrollerX]

Walk away.

Do not say anything to her about why.

Trust me my friend her mind will do all the talking for you.

She knows you want her already as the other posters have pointed out and the only way you are going to know your true importance to her is to cut off all contact without explanation.

If she absolutely must have you in her life she will give you what you want out of her.

If you didn't mean all that much you'll never hear from her again unless you go crawling back begging for the pathetic scraps of friendship she may or may not offer you.

Now is the time for you to decide what is more important.

Her friendship or a chance at a relationship with her and possibly losing her forever in any capacity if your walking away attempt fails.

I know if I were you and she were my first love and I wanted her back I would not settle for friendship as that is a slow death of dignity if you love a girl.

I would go out of my way and take whatever risk I had to, to get what I really want from her which would be a relationship.

I know a lot of guys mostly AFC's and possibly some RAFC's growing into DJ's may think that if they accept the dredded LJBF's they might get a shot at the girl that they love somewhere down the line and it is true you might get a lay out of it if you catch her when she's vulnerable after a breakup but once she gets over the pain of that you will be quickly discarded as a "mistake" or someother b.s reason will be assigned to why you and she are not compatible for a relationship.

It has been said before on this forum and I'll repeat it again that friendship is not the way you will eventually win the girl of your dreams. Sure it can happen in rare cases but those odds are like winning the lottery. Slim to none.

The DJ path can at times seem counterintuitive to what your heart is telling you will work but that is only because most of our hearts and minds have been poisoned by garbage like Dr. Phil and Oprah from cradle to the grave giving bad biased one sided hollywood romance garbage advice.

Standing up, being a man and walking away until the chick exhibits the desired behaviour you would have of her is the only way to do it.

And if she never gives you what you want then fvck her, by being her friend and staying in her life she'll just bring you pain when you see her with other guys and plus there's a billion better ones across the sea.

 

[cNfny]

thanks a lot KontrollerX. your posts make so much sense to me, sheds a light. i really thought and believed that her and i were soo good together and everything works like a perfect harmonised gf/bf relationship that it must be that she's afraid to pick up her dignity and ask me back (since that is how the relationship ended in the first place - she wanted to be liberal at college)

i think i will just walk away. but one thing, you say

If she absolutely must have you in her life she will give you what you want out of her

how would that happen? i mean, shes obviously goin to try reaching me thinkin we're still cool together, do i just ignore all calls, texts, voicemails, etc?

by doin that, i cant see how i'd ever know if she truely wants me back in the same way. to me i see it as she'll disregard me for having NO interest in her at all and just move on.

 

[KontrollerX]

Cut off all contact until she asks why you will no longer speak to her.

Then answer.

"You date men that are almost exactly like me rather than dating the real me.

Its clear you are afraid of something or else you would be dating me instead of them. I know you want more from me than friendship and I want more from you than that but until you can admit that to yourself and we can get together as more than friends I see no reason for us to continue to interact.

Its just not healthy or productive for either of us as I want a girlfriend not a friend and you have yet to decide exactly what you want.

Another clone or the real man that you love."

If she responds with anything other than the answer that you want to hear do not answer. She might respond with some garbage like "haha freak I don't love you, whatever you so crazy" and then she'll keep trying to draw you back in thinking its a bluff until it sinks in that you were serious.

Rollo Tomassi often says that the person who has the most power in a situation is the one who needs the other person the least.

At this point we do not know how much she needs you but the test of no contact is the only way we will find out.

And at first glance that message I gave you could seem to make you come off as needy as its a kind of ultimatum and those are generally a sign of weakness but I don't think that is the case with the message I gave you to use as it doesn't have a whiny conclusion to it.

Its basically saying that if she doesn't give you what you want its cool.

You're gonna walk as the situation is simply unhealthy for you to stick around in.

You are not sweating it or making tons of demands and saying "or else" you are simply laying down the facts of whats going to happen if she doesn't fall in line of whats going to make you happy.

 

[cNfny]

Its clear you are afraid of something or else you would be dating me instead of them. I know you want more from me than friendship and I want more from you than that but until you can admit that to yourself and we can get together as more than friends I see no reason for us to continue to interact.

Its just not healthy or productive for either of us as I want a girlfriend not a friend and you have yet to decide exactly what you want.

well if i say something along the terms of this, she'll just come back with "i thought it was clear that we were just friends, i'm not confused about anything"

i mean she did imply that we were just friends so assuming she was lying i dont think would work?

 

[KontrollerX]

I look at saying this as the risk of losing her that you would have to take cNfny.

But anyway man we all have two senses at war in us.

One is our gut instinct that I and others have talked about in posts here on the forum.

It automatically gives you a good or bad feeling about a person or situation and tells you if that person or situation is safe or reliable. Its like an animal instinctual sense to us that is there to protect us.

The other is our regular thought processes often clouded by AFC idealizations that fight against the gut instinct like "give the girl a chance, everybody deserves a second chance!" because your natural mind tells you "hey she's been through drug rehab and doesn't sleep with 10 guys a night anymore, plus she's really really hot lol" yet the gut instinct keeps fighting you and filling you with an ominous sickening feeling about her that tells you she really hasn't changed despite all the therapy or rehab she's been through, there's still that rotten core there that will harm you if you proceed with her.

The natural mind often overrides the gut instinct in this scenario due to hotness and a seemingly willing chick that wants you.

So how then do we know what to do when two of our senses are so in conflict with one another?

Simple. When both senses give the go ahead to a person or situation then you make your move with confidence things will go well for you.

The point of all I've just told you?

I want you to do some thinking about what would work with her as it pertains to distancing yourself and to pay close attention to your feelings as that is where your gut instinct comes into play.

Its clear you have to begin distancing yourself from her but its not clear what kind of distancing would send the message to her that you want to convey which is she better get with the program and be your girlfriend or get lost lol.

So I say this...

cNfny begin running many different distancing scenarios through your head, some you've already thought of and the one I proposed and maybe others you have or will read here on the forum.

Then pay close attention to both your natural mind and your feelings as that is where your gut instinct lies. Do not ignore either.

The gut instinct is more often right than the natural mind but the minimum amount of agreement from both senses you would want on a course of action is the natural mind thinking "Oh I don't know are you sure about this?" rather than outright disagreeing with your gut intinct and in this scenario your gut instinct going crazy telling you "this will work."

If you get complete agreement on a course of action from both senses even better but minimal agreement works too just so long as the gut instinct is giving you the stronger signals to take a certain action.

 

[reset]

Good points on gut vs. mind KontrollerX. I think often we ignore our guts, not just with girls but with anything in life. Other people tell us the way things "should" be or how "things really are" and even if it doesn't ring true for us, if we don't trust our gut we can end up making lame mistakes because it doesn't come from a place of who we ARE.

Especially with things we talk about here, sometimes you just know what's right, and even if it violates "DJ theory number 10 paragraph 2" it doesn't mean it's set in stone. This is why relying on techniques and routines too much can cloud your awareness of what's really going on. Then you ask questions like "she broke eye-contact with me then touched her arm, does she hate me?"

 

[cNfny]

very true, i can definetly relate to the guts vs logic situation.

for instance my gut from the beginning of my ex and i's frienship pick up has said she's only interested platonicly, but then she'd give random minute amounts of relationship hints and mix up how i felt. which i now feel she did to keep me latched on as how kontroller described.

my only problem at this point is the logical thinkin of this. if i cut contact then when and IF she's really concerned of my action and wants to know why, i feel i'd communicate in a needy/blackmail way which i dont want to at all. i'd feel our interaction would be along the terms of

her - why'd you start ignoring me?

me - i just felt we were wasting our time, in the end i wanted more than you'd be reluctant to give, based off the signs i'd get. you're a great person but i know when to cut my losses and divert my time towards finding someone who can be more intimately bound with my needs.

then if it escalated i'd leave the door open between us by saying something like "i dont have resentment towards you, i just feel i shouldn't be wasting so much of my time and energy on a girl who talks about dating mock up guys with my qualities but just wants a friendship from the real thing."

this is the gist of what my instinct tells me to conjure up in the direction of the conversation. is this a good route or should i relay something else for full benefits on my part?

 

[KontrollerX]

Heh heh.

"this is the gist of what my instinct tells me to conjure up in the direction of the conversation."

Your most powerful sense is telling you what will work.

Now what does your regular mind tell you?

Is it in agreement or is it frightened to take this leap?

BTW this part was beautifully stated I think...

"me - i just felt we were wasting our time, in the end i wanted more than you'd be reluctant to give, based off the signs i'd get. you're a great person but i know when to cut my losses and divert my time towards finding someone who can be more intimately bound with my needs."

 

[reset]

I think the less you say, the better. But you have to make the call on what your actions are going to be. The bottom line is this is driving you nuts, and you want to be a happy man living his life and spending time with girls who want to be yours. You can't do that when you're holding out on one.

It happens though, I myself got a "friends" thing recently. At that point I just walk away and let them take it from there. My gut tells me there's something there, but I know enough to walk away and let it happen on its own. Dude, if she wants you she's not going to let you get away. It's as easy as that. And if she doesn't, then you're BOTH better off. She doesn't get in a relationship with someone she doesn't want, and you don't waste time on someone who doesn't want you.

You're at a crossroads here. You're not friends. You don't see her as a friend, and it's sapping up your energy. You want one thing from this girl, a relationship. Fine, that's what you want. THAT'S what you want, not a friendship. You have to pick one.

And one thing you have to just stop doing is worrying what she'll think about you or what her interpretations of what you are doing is this. You want to be with her, and unless and until that happens, you leave her alone. If she comes after you, you have to decide on that "gut level" if she's just trying to hold on to a guy that makes her feel good about herself or if she sees the man she wants drifting away from her.

By walking away, you are sending a strong message to her and yourself: and that is you don't get caught up in these friendships with chicks that you want to be with. You're not strong enough to handle it. And that's fine. You'll be stronger when you're doing the right thing for YOU. Not for her, or for the SS community, for YOU.

 

[cNfny]

If she comes after you, you have to decide on that "gut level" if she's just trying to hold on to a guy that makes her feel good about herself or if she sees the man she wants drifting away from her.

thats the problem, i mean friends, no just "girl friends" after long absences come to you saying "ive missed you lets get together" etc. so how would i interpret this if it were to happen with her?

should i blatantly tell her what i want out of the interaction or?

 

[KontrollerX]

If you end contact making it clear you want a relationship out of her or nothing I do not believe that will happen cNfny.

If it does suggest you two meet some place where you can isolate her or any place where you feel you can adequetely display romantic interest with kino and whatnot.

If she freezes up on you or does not exhibit the desired behaviour you say "Yep I knew this was was a bad idea" or simply "Well I've got to go" and then you make your exit or just simply look at her and walk away without saying a word.

She KNOWS what you want of her.

You won't have to tell her.

 

[reset]

I agree with KontrollerX. You have to be careful about doing exactly what someone online tells you, only you know the situation.

My point is, if you're less available to her, she'll know you're at the stage that you're ready to move on. If she doesn't want that, she'll make sure to get together with you, like Kontroller says. At that point, it's action time, not words time.

 

[cNfny]

update:

so it's been 3 days since i cut contact with her. my phone has internet access and i used to always be signed on to AIM (aol instant messenger) just to have the luxury of communication to people i only cared for online ha. anyway this is where she'd make 80% of her communication with me.

yesterday a friend said that she had asked about me stating "did he die or just his phone?"

now i dont get why she can't just call if she's at all curious?