Your post-date behaviour that works or fails?

[goldengoose]

Which means, during those first 3 months, you shouldn't be doing things a boyfriend would do, like calling/messaging her all the time. It makes things seem, to her, like they're moving too soon

In my experience, the girl will be calling me more when she doesn't hear from me. Too soon? Most women will want a comittment before 3 months so they don't feel like a slut.

 

[_sideways_]

Does anyone watch Jimmy tatro?

 

[GotED?]

Good stuff Jariel!

Need to tone down the sexual escalation, I don't do that so no issues there getting past 1st dates for me usually. The theory was correct. Player like outer will spook quality women thinking you are out of her league. Been there myself and was told later by my ex partner of over a year. She dumped me after the 1st date for no good reason, later she fessed up she was afraid she wouldn't be able to hang on to me long term.

Thanks for sharing

Exodus

 

[Jariel]

Thanks again for the feedback.

The confusing situation for me is that I've had over 300 dates (I've lost count) in the past 4 years, which is more than most guys get in a lifetime, but only 1 of them ended up as a girlfriend and another I was seeing for 3 months. Yet I see average guys go on 1 or 2 dates once in a blue moon or pull in a bar one night and 6 months later they're getting engaged.

So on one hand, something I'm doing is very right for me to score so many dates and so easily and about 95% of the girls I ask out for a first date will accept. But on the other hand, I'm doing something very wrong to be pushing away so many women before we even reach a 3rd or 4th date, especially when these women show blatant signals of high interest.

It would make sense if they showed no indication of interest during the date or rejected me after the date. I'd just assume they weren't attracted to me or not interested in me, but it's when they're all over me before and after the date, acting like flustered schoolgirls with a crush or even showing some feelings for me even through the second (and sometimes 3rd) date...and then in the days after they suddenly back off. That's what's confusing.

Perhaps I do try too hard to be perfect or perhaps I am playing the seduction game a bit too much. A couple of things came to mind when my friends and the girl I dated started telling me about my player vibes.

I remember dating a cute blonde girl not long before I met my ex. We had 3 dates and she was all over me. We kissed a lot and she initiated a lot of it, but after the 3rd date I started trying to escalate sexually. I suggested she come to my place for our next date, which she accepted, but I started trying to raise the tension and drop innendos about what we'd be doing, then the next day she said she'd had a change of heart and didn't want to see me.

Other girls I've dated, I've pulled a lot of c+f and talked about the dates I've had and interest I get and they've made light hearted comments about how I'm a ladies man or serial dater, or player...and these girls don't want to see me again.

When I first started dating my ex, however, I was getting a bit disallusioned with all this pick up stuff and decided to put it to one side. I made her feel special, expressed my keeness to see her again. She told me that whenever we went out, I made her feel like she was the only woman in the whole room and how I made her "melt" with some of the things I said to her.

It may also explain why texting works so well for me. When I'm texting, I am able to form a deeper connection with these women and make them feel special, yet when we meet for our dates I tend to play things much cooler or I try to focus on sexual escalation and ****y funny.

Another very telling thing I notice is that a lot of the girls who reject me will often end up in long term relationships with seemingly average guys. Guys who are not as good looking as me, short, overweight, no real game and by all accounts nice guys or AFCs. Not to say they kiss a$$ or become doormats, but they just seem like comfortable, predictable guys who wouldn't turn any heads. And yet, the women love these guys.

This leads me to think that a lot of women crave that security and connection more than they crave an alpha male.

A lot of seduction, PUA material and "the game" is aimed towards confident party girls, who get their pick of men on a night out, have casual sex and have orbiters, yet many of the women I date are fairly new to dating, a bit naive, have left their partying days behind them or have been in long term relationships most of their lives; they get nervous and shy when meeting, they're self conscious and have their defences up. They appreciate a gentleman and they seek a mental and emotional connection with a guy...often before they will have sex.

I have dated the party girl types and the game and escalation does work well on them, so does a lot of the trickery designed to withdraw attention, play hard to get and manipulate their egos, and it's led me to sex with such girls. But I'm starting to think that an entirely different approach is needed for attracting girls worthy of relationships.

I have 5 dates lined up for the next week, starting tonight. So I'm going to try some different approaches and see what happens.

 

[Partizan]

Keep us updated man. I'm in your age range and this stuff is gold.

I'm also beginning to wonder if I'm giving off the player vibe too much even though I just recently started dating post-divorce.

 

[goldengoose]

Another very telling thing I notice is that a lot of the girls who reject me will often end up in long term relationships with seemingly average guys. Guys who are not as good looking as me, short, overweight, no real game and by all accounts nice guys or AFCs. Not to say they kiss a$$ or become doormats, but they just seem like comfortable, predictable guys who wouldn't turn any heads. And yet, the women love these guys.

Women like those guys because they provide the stability, security, and the means. Alphas aren't going to take them on trips and jump through their hoops. They have their fun with alphas and look for what they need in LTR's. A lot of alphas don't have their sh1t together but are just good with women. They aren't cut out for LTR's financially and with their mindset of putting up with sh1t from women.

This leads me to think that a lot of women crave that security and connection more than they crave an alpha male.

They do crave the alpha behind the back of the beta, but after they had their fun, they want their security because they can't rely on the alpha for security, he doesn't give that to them.

 

[Jariel]

Well, some interesting feedback lately. I had a second date with a girl who seemed to reject me at first and one of the things she told me was that after our first date, I seemed cold with her. I took 2 days to text her and when I did it was really blunt.

I basically took the advice of a lot of dating gurus and guys on here and contacted her only to try and set up a date. She said she felt like I wasn't as interested in her and figured she'd rather not date me than be my second choice or back up plan.

I think it was down to the fact that I was texting so frequently and we had a great connection before the date and on the date, then my behaviour changed suddenly.

As I've said before, I think many of us guys underestimate just how insecure and nervous women can be. If you think how many of us read into this kind of thing, it's perfectly understandable that women are going to do the same.

There has to be a balance here. I have done the opposite before now and contacted a girl after a date and been too enthusiastic...and she disappears. I think it's just about taking things slow, but not too slow that she thinks you've lost interest.

 

[Electro67]

Sending a girl the "I had a great time" text after a first date has a 99.879 percent failure rate lol. In all seriousness, I've never had it work. Pretty much guaranteed flake.

If you're not 100% sure where you stand with a girl, this is probably true. I had a golden opportunity go wrong recently (detailed in excruciating detail in another thread) and I think one of my biggest mistakes was sending her a message as soon as I got home.

On the other hand, if a girl is really into you and acts like you can do no wrong, and especially if you've had sex with her, I don't think sending the post-date message hurts at all. Just my two cents.

 

[goldengoose]

^^^Don't do it. You take a risk assuming that you can do no wrong.
If you make out in the parking lot as you say your goodbyes, she will text you--and it's OK to respond and even start sexting.

Other than that, there's no reason to send a text that night, IMO.

Other than if you fvuck her that night. On the first date. But then again texting after fvucking seems anti-climactic.

I'm guilty of texting "i had a great time" after a date, nothing happened to affect things, but I agree that you shouldn't text after a date. Let her text you because that shows any interest she has.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

I always wonder why guys do that. Like, how much assurance do guys think a woman needs to make her feel like he had a good time on the date? At the end of the date if I say "I had a good time, thanks for coming out," it's already been said - I don't feel the need to have to re-iterate it again via text message or a call the next day. That's one of the MAJOR mistakes these guys are making, and it's even worse that they don't see it as a mistake. I don't want the girl to feel TOO assured of how good a time I had - if anything, I WANT her to wonder if I really meant it, or not be able to completely predict that I'll call her for another date. In my experience, NOT contacting them that same evening or next day only INCREASES my chances of taking them out again. Guess everyone's experience is different, but based on the stories I've read on these boards, most of the guys contacting her to re-confirm what a good time they had aren't getting future dates, soo....

 

[Amilz]

deleted

 

[Yewki]

The confusing situation for me is that I've had over 300 dates (I've lost count) in the past 4 years, which is more than most guys get in a lifetime, but only 1 of them ended up as a girlfriend and another I was seeing for 3 months.

So you've averaged close to 2 dates per week, every week, for the past 4 years? Umm... if that's the case you need some hobbies holy ****.

If your life revolves around dating you probably take girls too seriously and pedestalize them. Girls are not important enough that you should make your life about dating them. And quantity isn't quality. Take a break for a while and get some perspective IMO.

 

[Partizan]

Finally something we agree on Harry.

It's not even so much about assurance. It's more about attitude. It's like I'm trying to say, "Look I could care less if I see you again. Just because you had a great time doesn't mean I'm gonna jump for joy and immediately text you back. Nope. I'm not sold on you yet, so it's gonna be several hours or maybe even a day before you hear back from me." THAT is the attitude I convey--no matter WHAT she seems to think of me, I'm going ghost for a few days because I'm just not sold on her yet. And THAT attitude is what escalates interest IMO.

It's regrettable that a man and a woman have to play games, but feigning disinterest works. It's one of the few tools that a guy has and should use early in the dating game.

I did this with my first date last week based on your advice, and it worked like a charm. Date was last Monday. Went ghost and didn't contact her again until Thursday. She was happy to hear from me. Second date is tonight.

 

[Partizan]

So you've averaged close to 2 dates per week, every week, for the past 4 years? Umm... if that's the case you need some hobbies holy ****.

If your life revolves around dating you probably take girls too seriously and pedestalize them. Girls are not important enough that you should make your life about dating them. And quantity isn't quality. Take a break for a while and get some perspective IMO.

I have 3 dates lined up in the next week and I still have time for my hobbies. There are 7 days in a week.

 

[Jariel]

So you've averaged close to 2 dates per week, every week, for the past 4 years? Umm... if that's the case you need some hobbies holy ****.

If your life revolves around dating you probably take girls too seriously and pedestalize them. Girls are not important enough that you should make your life about dating them. And quantity isn't quality. Take a break for a while and get some perspective IMO.

I may have exaggerated a bit as I was in an 18month relationship between then. So more like 300 dates the past 5 years. I've had some weeks where I've had 3-5 dates though.

I still get plenty of time for hobbies, I've set up my own business and use the gym regularly, but have treated a lot of these dates as a way of socialising, getting to know new people and just practicing dating and building confidence. The downside is like you say, maybe I am spending too much time focused on women, as I obviously spend time getting to know them before, setting up the date and so on. The plus side is that I no longer fear rejection, I don't even get nervous before a date and can go for a kiss or escalate towards sex without a hint of fear. This also benefits me in other aspects of life too.

 

[Yewki]

I have 3 dates lined up in the next week and I still have time for my hobbies. There are 7 days in a week.

And for how many years will you be doing multiple dates per week for? I would get burned out pretty quickly.

What if that IS his hobby? ... Nothing wrong with that, IMO

I suppose you're right but there's a fine line between a hobby and an obsession, just gotta be careful. 300 dates in 4 years is pretty extreme.

I still get plenty of time for hobbies, I've set up my own business and use the gym regularly, but have treated a lot of these dates as a way of socialising, getting to know new people and just practicing dating and building confidence. The downside is like you say, maybe I am spending too much time focused on women, as I obviously spend time getting to know them before, setting up the date and so on. The plus side is that I no longer fear rejection, I don't even get nervous before a date and can go for a kiss or escalate towards sex without a hint of fear. This also benefits me in other aspects of life too.

Sounds like you're pretty level headed so as long as you're learning and improving your life it's all good.

 

[goldengoose]

It's not just about gauging her interest IMO. It's more about ESCALATING the interest she already has.

That's true, but if there was interest she would have escalated on that date or the next date.

 

[Jariel]

Well guys, I've done a lot of experimenting lately with different behaviours after my dates and the point is, none of it has made any difference.

I would say most of the women I dated showed high interest during the date, from their body language to hints about seeing me again, direct compliments and actions. Most of them I kissed at the end of the date and they reciprocated.

Some girls I waited 1-2 days after the date before making contact. A couple of others I waited about a week and text them. I even tried calling a few of the girls to arrange the next date. 2 of them answered and the one ignored my call. 1 of them agreed to a date, the other one agreed tentatively but flaked out.

I also tried contacting some the same night or the next day. One girl called me up only hours after our date. I then waited a few days to contact her and she had a bit of a moan about how she never expected to hear from me and didn't think I was interested, and then she ignored me after that. Two girls made me promise to text them after the date, and only one of them replied.

So yeah, I've had a lot of dates lately and I've tried every different strategy for contacting a girl after a date and it made no difference.

This leads me to the conclusion that if a girl is interested, it really doesn't matter how you contact them after the date...providing you don't go to extremes, like acting too keen/desperate or too cold.

Another conclusion I've drawn is that these girls just have low interest in me after the date. Something about me seemed to captivate them during the date itself, but they're not seeing the appeal of future dates...or it leading anywhere.

The strange thing is, I literally have a load of women obsessed with me. A lot of my female friends and acquaintances have crushes on me and apparently women talk about me at my past and present workplaces. Girls I've known for years see me as their ideal man. I've had relationships and I get dates without much effort and it's very rare a woman turns me down when I ask her out.

So I figure there's some inconsistency somewhere in the way I act on my dates compared to how I act around everyone else. So I started paying more attention to how I act on my dates and something started to click.

When I go on a date, I act very calm and laidback. I picture myself as being like James Bond, in control and suave. I talk slowly and deeply, ask questions about the girl and have conversations.

Yet, normally I'm a lot more fun, witty, upbeat and lively. I know I verge on being a bit goofy sometimes, but people gravitate towards me, I can captivate a room full of people and my female friends have even told me I'm definitely the alpha male of the group. I always thought it was due to my size and masculinity, but I realise now that my natural charisma and wit is something that works in my favour, and yet these are the exact qualities I'm repressing when I go on a date.

I hate to admit this, but when I look back at many of my dates I realise I must come across as boring and overly responsible. This is why the dates that escalate to sex work for me - because it's fun and interesting, whereas those that don't escalate must feel quite strained.

During a few of my recent dates, one girl joked that I was like a father figure because I was so responsible and sensible. Another pointed out that I'm extremely laidback, but her tone did not sound very complimentary. One girl even said that I seem like a very quiet guy, and implied I'm shy and unsociable.

Clearly, this laidback James Bond approach is not being perceived as I intended. I'm not being myself and I'm dragging these girls into a rather boring situation, that they don't want to end up in again.

This also got me thinking back to all the coolest women I've ever dated and I realised they were the ones who were most fun and most outgoing. They were not necessarily the most attractive or most accomplished, but they were great company, easy to talk to and laugh with flirting and escalation was so much easier and more natural with them. At the end of these dates, neither of us wanted to leave...and many times we ended up having sex and staying overnight with each other. All because we were having fun!

I went on a date a few days ago and she was very hot, but also very laidback and cool. Frankly, it just wasn't a fun date. She was hard work, the conversation was formulaic and boring. It was hard to flirt with her and it felt uncomfortable. I assumed for a while she wasn't interested, and yet she hovered around at the end of the date and was clearly looking for me to kiss her, but I never bothered. She text me and it turns out she is keen to see me again, but why would I want to? Yet this is exactly how I've behaved on previous dates in my "James Bond mode".

I called another girl up yesterday and I greeted her with a "hey trouble" and approached the conversation in a light hearted and fun way. She responded so well. She was laughing a lot, making jokes back, we neg hit and teased each other and then I asked her out and she accepted very enthusiastic. She later text me to say how much she enjoyed the short chat and that she loves my "energy". Now it's clear to me that this girl will be fun to hang out with and I'm looking forward to it.

Anyway, I realise I've rambled on quite a lot in this post but I just wanted to draw your attention to some of these inconsistencies that might be affecting your game too and maybe you need to ask yourself if you're trying too hard to be cool and if you're actually a fun person to hang out with.

Time will tell if this is a turning point in my game, but I'm feeling very positive about my upcoming dates.

 

[SgtSplacker]

Valuable things are rare.

If something is not rare everyone would have it and it would not be as valuable as a rare version of that same thing.

So valuable things are rare...

So you have to be rare...

If you engage in communications with a frequency that can be described as: scheduled, frequent, often, nightly, daily, sometimes, available etc.

You're not rare...

Rare happens when you go look for something and it's not there.

Over and over again, it's not there.

If she calls you and you call her back.

You're not rare.

Women seek value in a man.

At first they want to get to know you so things start off friendly and easy...

But then they will eventually begin to consider your value as a man...

Is he rare?

Probably not...

NEXT

After she decides if you are valuable enough, what will keep her engaged are your desires for her.

Desires she can't have.

She must never know you desire her exclusively even if you do.

Because if she has your desires then guess what?

IT'S NOT RARE ANYMORE!

So less value...

Get it?

You have to give her just enough water to keep her by the watering hole. Too much and she leaves to another hole, too little and she leaves to another hole.

But give her juuust enough and she sticks around.

You have to reject the women you like in some way. It can't always be yes yes yes.