Your opinions on MGTOW/Red Pill?

[wolf]

For Guys that need a little down time and to be away from Women for a while then yes MGTOW can and does work. The relationship you have with yourself is the most important relationship you can ever have. If you love and respect yourself then you will have zero tolerance for crap and being walked over. The issue is how long does one stay MGTOW?
Life is about balance. Stay a while and focus on you. Your Goals, your money, your self love. Stay too long and you may never be with another woman again.
A little time out never hurt anyone. Giving up on Women completely because you got burned once or twice is silly. Learn from your mistakes and grow to never repeat them.

 

[Serenity]

I have heard so many horror stories about relationships

They've gotten burned, many of them pretty hard. Their view is severely biased because of that. They're not entirely wrong in that it can happen, but they're not entirely right because it doesn't get that bad most of the time. There's something you can learn from this, the warning signs to know when to eject from a relationship if it goes bad but before it gets too bad. If you can recognize a relationship heading in a bad direction early you can safeguard yourself from a lot of unnecessary damage.

"truths" about female nature (hypergamy, women don't actually care about you unless you can provide them something, etc.)

Their views are again biased due to bad experiences with the opposite sex. This is more of a truth about human nature and should be common sense. If you don't have anything to provide then why would anyone bother having you. To flip it, why would you keep around someone who has nothing to offer you? It's perfectly sensible to not give a damn about people who have nothing to offer, and this isn't a uniquely female thing to do.

And that game doesn't exist (so if I'm short and not best looking guy in world, I'm ****ed)

Again a bias. It would hurt their ego too much to admit that they just plain and simply have a sh!tty personality and value belief system. Short guys who doesn't look like a magazine model can absolutely pull chicks, I have several friends who fit this description and they have no issue. How you walk and talk makes a HUGE difference.

What is your opinion on their teachings?

Overall there's a few good points, but they're mostly bitter and excessively pessimistic individuals which overshadows the few good points they have. Consider their teachings with extreme caution, don't blindly follow or believe.

 

[YourGreatestFear]

Hi guys.

Recently, I have been really anxious and lost from so many mgtow/red pill videos I have seen. I have heard so many horror stories about relationships, "truths" about female nature (hypergamy, women don't actually care about you unless you can provide them something, etc.) And that game doesn't exist (so if I'm short and not best looking guy in world, I'm ****ed)

What is your opinion on their teachings?

Large part of RedPill community also rely on game and believe in game. One of the most important concepts of RedPill is thing called "FRAME". If you check out best rated posts on RedPill reddit sub then you will see what it is more about your actions and confidence than anything else. Being goodlooking is better than not. The main thing what RedPill tells you to start with is lifting weights and become fit, it is indeed important in western world where women more and more masculine and so put more importance on male's looks. Still even with bad genetics you could get girls and also improve your looks.

As about stories about women - depending on perspective the fact what women like casual sex and cheat on their bf or husband is a good news, not a bad one, lol. MGTOW are just guys who give up, still they have their point.

 

[allancc3]

Redpill, mgtow and pua tend to attract a very distinct type of personality: guys who are sociopathic, yet are very unsuccessful dating women lol. It's really a terrible mix.

Even the most "successful" pua's almost never attract conventionally hot women. Neil Strauss's girlfriend was a slightly chubby, 30 something, not so well known musician in a semi-obscure band. Yet, he was celebrated for his ostensibly elite skill set.

Guys just don't get it. Redpill, mgtow and pua, BASED SOLELY ON RESULTS, are the very worst examples to follow if you want a hot girlfriend.

 

[AJ84]

Even as a female I can see some really good points in some red pill theory, like self improvement, having boundaries, not letting women disrespect you and being willing to walk away.

What, IMO, makes it a bit of a hard sell to the mainstream is the hypocrisy and illogical stuff like:
The criticism that women will only be with men who can give them want they want, while teaching men how to get easy no strings sex from women and avoid giving them anything in return.

The criticism that all women will cheat, while giving advice on how to have side chicks while married or in LTR.

The criticism that woman are not capable of being loyal, while giving advice on how to communicate to a gf or wife that she is easily replaceable at the drop of a hat, or the advice on dumping a gf or wife when they get depressed over something and become less attentive or fun due to being sad. Or they get old, or sick, or won’t do a three way...

The criticism that women can’t think logically, then trash talking a woman who doesn’t puppet the way she’s supposed to because she actually is thinking logically.

The complaint that all women are hoez and not worthy of a relationship, while advising on dumping any girl who doesn’t bend over after date three.

That kind of stuff seems to cloud the more solid advice and points. IMO.

 

[YourGreatestFear]

Redpill, mgtow and pua tend to attract a very distinct type of personality: guys who are sociopathic, yet are very unsuccessful dating women lol. It's really a terrible mix.

Even the most "successful" pua's almost never attract conventionally hot women. Neil Strauss's girlfriend was a slightly chubby, 30 something, not so well known musician in a semi-obscure band. Yet, he was celebrated for his ostensibly elite skill set.

Guys just don't get it. Redpill, mgtow and pua, BASED SOLELY ON RESULTS, are the very worst examples to follow if you want a hot girlfriend.

Lol. The fact what you mentioned Neil Strauss's girlfriend means you don't understand what pickup isn't about finding a gf, it is about picking up women who barely knows you. It doesn't mean what they would want to date you and it doesn't mean what you should date/marry hottest women, because in LTR personality of the girl is way more important. RedPill and PUA surely can attract guys like this, only to change them to the better. Working on self-improvement, on your game and frame, on your body and style - those are advices pickup and RP gives to the guys who want success with women and all of this definitely works.

The criticism that women will only be with men who can give them want they want, while teaching men how to get easy no strings sex from women and avoid giving them anything in return.

Mm, so you want to say what as a woman you can't enjoy sex just by itself? Wow, if this isn't hypocrisy then I assume you yet to meet a man who is really good in bed. Sex is enjoyment just by itself and it isn't something what we men should exchange for resources or any other values. In fact it is scientific fact what women enjoy good sex much more than men because your orgasm is so much stronger and can be repeatable in short period of time. For us there is no big difference between orgasm with woman and orgasm from masturbation, in fact most guys just want to get sex for validation, not because of actual enjoyment of the process. So why should we give anything in return?

 

[AJ84]

Lol. The fact what you mentioned Neil Strauss's girlfriend means you don't understand what pickup isn't about finding a gf, it is about picking up women who barely knows you. It doesn't mean what they would want to date you and it doesn't mean what you should date/marry hottest women, because in LTR personality of the girl is way more important. RedPill and PUA surely can attract guys like this, only to change them to the better. Working on self-improvement, on your game and frame, on your body and style - those are advices pickup and RP gives to the guys who want success with women and all of this definitely works.




Mm, so you want to say what as a woman you can't enjoy sex just by itself? Wow, if this isn't hypocrisy then I assume you yet to meet a man who is really good in bed. Sex is enjoyment just by itself and it isn't something what we men should exchange for resources or any other values. In fact it is scientific fact what women enjoy good sex much more than men because your orgasm is so much stronger and can be repeatable in short period of time. For us there is no big difference between orgasm with woman and orgasm from masturbation, in fact most guys just want to get sex for validation, not because of actual enjoyment of the process. So why should we give anything in return?

Yes women have more intense and repeat orgasms but, like men, they can also achieve this via masturbation.

So no, his penis/mouth/hands are not enough for her to stick around if he’s literally only having sex with her and nothing else. Not sure what your experiences have been in dating and relationships with women where they are perfectly ok with emotionally investing in someone who is only giving them sex and literally nothing else in return.

Maybe you are thinking of causal hook ups or something?

Also men, smart men anyway, want more than just validation via sex from a woman, much more, if he’s going to invest in her. Much of the advice on the site suggests that.

 

[spoodermann]

I saw Stefan Molyneux and Rollo Tomasi discussion on youtube and this was comment section in nutshell. Opinions?

 

[Sunnypoo]

Red pill works with the wrong kind of women. With the right kind of women there is no need for red pill and blue pill doesn't exist. It's up to you to figure out how to give yourself the best chance with the right women. Self love and confidence are a good start.

 

[Roober]

MGTOW is an ideology, no different than feminism or any other form of activism.

If someone has vast sweeping generalizations about a group of people, the real problem is in the mirror.

 

[AJ84]

I saw Stefan Molyneux and Rollo Tomasi discussion on youtube and this was comment section in nutshell. Opinions?

View attachment 2653
View attachment 2654 View attachment 2655

If I thought like that I would buy a send robot and be done with it.

 

[AJ84]

MGTOW is an ideology, no different than feminism or any other form of activism.

If someone has vast sweeping generalizations about a group of people, the real problem is in the mirror.

This. I know of a hard core feminist at work who paints all men with the same brush. Guess what? No one wants to be around her and when she talks about her views, eye rolls. Seriously I go out of my way to avoid her because she once gave me crap for taking a call from my husband when we were out at a work social lunch.
She of course doesn’t have a husband lol, and has every excuse as to why that is, all directed towards how crappy and useless men are which really is just a big self soothing security blanket to cover up the fact that she’s a man repellent
I see the male equivalent in the same way: female repellent.

 

[Steel_Neurons]

I saw Stefan Molyneux and Rollo Tomasi discussion on youtube and this was comment section in nutshell. Opinions?

Are these comments in line with their behaviour, though? I thought they were both happily married, aren't they? I don't know enough about them.

 

[YourGreatestFear]

Yes women have more intense and repeat orgasms but, like men, they can also achieve this via masturbation.

So no, his penis/mouth/hands are not enough for her to stick around if he’s literally only having sex with her and nothing else. Not sure what your experiences have been in dating and relationships with women where they are perfectly ok with emotionally investing in someone who is only giving them sex and literally nothing else in return.

Maybe you are thinking of causal hook ups or something?

Also men, smart men anyway, want more than just validation via sex from a woman, much more, if he’s going to invest in her. Much of the advice on the site suggests that.

From what I know 95% of porn is created for men, also statistically women masturbate much rarer than men, so I don't think what value of masturbation is the same for men and women. Interestingly enough, average woman have more sex than average man (it is possible because there are "above average" men who get much more sex than average), so it is just not true what women could be just sexually satisfied with masturbation as much as men.

Also IDK why you started to talk about emotional investments when talking about situation in which man's objective is "sex with no strings attached", not "making her love you". So of course I think about casual sex, what is called "having plates" or "****buddies". Of course some women would invest emotionally, but it is their choice and their problem. If I as a man just want to have sex then why I should give something more than it? Moreover so considering the fact what I'm far above average guy in sex and often the best sexual partner of her life. In fact some women cheat on their bf with RedPill guys. So IDK why you started to talk about all of this when discussing situation when men just want to have casual sex.

If you are talking about situation when man expect his woman to be his long term partner and be faithful to him while he sleeps with other women, then it is just perfect type of relationships what men want. If you know what you are doing then you will find a woman who is willing to accept your rules, so I can't see what is the problem here. But it would be wrong to say what "she get only sex here", in fact like with men what women really want is validation - on sexual marketplace we people compete with each other. Men compete with men and women compete with women. So the main thing you should do to make woman accept your polygamy is to make her feel better than other women, make her feel what she is the winner here and other girls are just inferior to her. Also even if you aren't exclusive to her she still could get all her emotional needs satisfied.

Sex is just sex after all. People hate cheating just because it makes them feel inferior, as if they are betrayed or cheated. You avoid all of those things and then person could treat your polygamous nature calmly. Of course things are even easier if your girl is bisexual which is perfect. Polygamous relationships exist and they could be much deeper than monogamous ones, it is just a matter of perspective.

 

[AJ84]

From what I know 95% of porn is created for men, also statistically women masturbate much rarer than men, so I don't think what value of masturbation is the same for men and women. Interestingly enough, average woman have more sex than average man (it is possible because there are "above average" men who get much more sex than average), so it is just not true what women could be just sexually satisfied with masturbation as much as men.

Also IDK why you started to talk about emotional investments when talking about situation in which man's objective is "sex with no strings attached", not "making her love you". So of course I think about casual sex, what is called "having plates" or "****buddies". Of course some women would invest emotionally, but it is their choice and their problem. If I as a man just want to have sex then why I should give something more than it? Moreover so considering the fact what I'm far above average guy in sex and often the best sexual partner of her life. In fact some women cheat on their bf with RedPill guys. So IDK why you started to talk about all of this when discussing situation when men just want to have casual sex.

If you are talking about situation when man expect his woman to be his long term partner and be faithful to him while he sleeps with other women, then it is just perfect type of relationships what men want. If you know what you are doing then you will find a woman who is willing to accept your rules, so I can't see what is the problem here. But it would be wrong to say what "she get only sex here", in fact like with men what women really want is validation - on sexual marketplace we people compete with each other. Men compete with men and women compete with women. So the main thing you should do to make woman accept your polygamy is to make her feel better than other women, make her feel what she is the winner here and other girls are just inferior to her. Also even if you aren't exclusive to her she still could get all her emotional needs satisfied.

Sex is just sex after all. People hate cheating just because it makes them feel inferior, as if they are betrayed or cheated. You avoid all of those things and then person could treat your polygamous nature calmly. Of course things are even easier if your girl is bisexual which is perfect. Polygamous relationships exist and they could be much deeper than monogamous ones, it is just a matter of perspective.

Is all of this what you have read about or what you have experienced by dating women? I’m just not seeing a connection between what you think women want and what woman actually want, sorry.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Been there done that.. No that's the consequences of marrying a women child, lots of males who are afraid of changes unable to find a quality women, they repeat the cycle over and over again and say yeah all women is trash, infact they failed to look in the mirror and what causes them to make that subconscious choice, ever heard about chemistry and developing into a relationship? That chemistry is where when you're a trash you will automatically select a trash women as your mate.. Water seeks its own level and everytime its never wrong. Improving yours is way to go.

Bull****. 80% of divorce initiated by women.

The stats speak loud and clear. You are pedaling the same horse **** as every other trad cuck. Onus on a man until you are divorce raped and cucked.

I will bump this when

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Apperently mgtow thinks that most pua's are validation seeking *****s. Opinions?

Topic: why pua's are losers | MGTOW

MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way - is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: No. Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a man is. Looking to no one else for social...

www.mgtow.com

Topic: PUA tactics will never work, Heres why? | MGTOW

MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way - is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: No. Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a man is. Looking to no one else for social...

www.mgtow.com

Topic: Why PUA is for failures in life | MGTOW

MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way - is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: No. Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a man is. Looking to no one else for social...

www.mgtow.com

Its two fold. By approaching, you bump her ego, and by default, give attention. Its why takeaways and kicking dumpty off a pedestal is so powerful.

I spam approach. Obv, calibrate but, its purely volume.

I wont marry. I wont cohabitation or date single mom's.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Are these comments in line with their behaviour, though? I thought they were both happily married, aren't they? I don't know enough about them.

Molyneux is annoying as is Rollo at time but both are informative.

Molyneux truth on sex, truth on single moms, and gene warfare series are red pills.

High kills equate to divorce and cucking in all likelihood. Couple in RM and female SMV, it puts things in perspective.

What pisses me off are trad cucks pedaling blame men when laws and divorce rape is initiated by women. Not paying child support means jail. You cannot get a good job after jail.

Datsik the dj is planning a comeback afyer false rapey accusations. Era of victimhood and accusations. No police report, proof or jail time = did not happen.

Rapist should be taken out, shot and pissed on as should be those who falsely accuse.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

All of these theories about women are enough to confuse anyone.

All I really know is that most women in America are pretty ruthless when it comes to doing what's best for them. Sometimes you are what's best for them. Sometimes divorcing you is what's best for them.

Which is why, GYOW is GOAT status. Not necessarily meaning become a phaggot or adopt some ideology. Go full boar on your sexual strategy and to the point of ruthlessness. For the record, I agree with you and would add the UK women as well.

The benchmark is top form SMV 18-23 or do not want.

Women have their own charms/tactics/survival mechanisms. Sometimes it involves using men/many men to do their bidding.

Just because you won the hypergamy game doesn't mean it will be smooth sailing. Just look at celebrities. Being the highest available male doesn't mean women will submit to you. That's what they want you to THINK. In reality the women are using you for their OWN validation. There's no submission. Only the guy being seduced. Women know how to cater to your ego and work you like a yoyo. Having value means that it allows you to serve HER. Do HER bidding. Some guys are useful for sex. Some guys are useful for resources. And some guys are useful for attention

There's still OGs of the game. Decaprio hasn't datee anybody over 25 in the past 3 decades. Keanu Reeves comes to mind as well. I do agree but, as Jlaix said, you can't be half a gangster.

Prerequisite is top form, fit, young, attractive, feminine, submissive and dtf. Anything bu5 is #nextSet

This is red pill in a nutshell. The irony of romance is that it is essentially an unromantic exchange of value and goods. It's business for women. And when they dump you, it's nothing personal it's just business. And when they divorce you, it's also (especially) business. Being good in business is how you survive in the world.

Notice I never said anything negative or sounded butthurt. I just simply pointed to the way things are.

Now knowing all of this, it can prevent you from making foolish mistakes while at the same time being able to enjoy women for sex and companionship.

You? No. But there's red pill awareness man who married after being cucked. There's this delusional idea that they can hack marriage or the laws. They may know female nature but are purple pill more times than not.

Rollo married epiphany phase for example.

But at the end of the day, don't take it personally. It's all business. Unless she is your mom, she's not going to love you unconditionally.

I can concur with everything you said or just about.

If we take a biz approach to dating, w3 should drag women through thrur best years and plate as they attempt to play house.

I don't believe in love. There's a ToddV explanation of love. Its all chemical feelers, oxytocin, and its horse **** to proliferate your biology.

Its why, a red pill unplugging from male idealism is so necessary or it won't end well. I see more of a black pill, existentialism, all meanings is man made.

Working backwards; there's doom and gloom. You live and you die. Only thing guaranteed is death and taxes. So, wtf does a man have to lose?

Hit on baeeeees. Go get girls. Chain gunning cold approach. Swipe right at life. Smash or next. Repeat.

Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

[sangheilios]

I agree with a lot of it, especially when it is applied to the typical woman in her late teens and through her twenties.

I feel this movement primarily started due to men who had gone through some brutal divorces and the subsequent emotional turmoil they underwent afterwards. They were good men who did the right thing but due to circumstance or what have you it didn't work out, but due to the court system and it's favoritism towards women it ruined them, both financially and emotionally. Granted, there are definitely some deadbeat husbands out there who had wives who got the short end of the stick, but these would be the exception. Also, the MGTOW movement is from a man's perspective so what women undergo is of no relevance at all.

I also feel a lot of what is said about nice guys finishing last and women falling on the floor to take their panties off for bad boys has tons of truth. I remember in high school that most of the girls went for the bad boys, they spread their legs for them without a second thought because they were "exciting", whilst paying absolutely no attention to the decent good kid. However, as they get older this behavior slowly changes, but I have noticed that there are many women who seemed to be perpetually locked in this high school mindset well into their twenties. I think a lot of this has to do with tinder and social media, as it gives them far too much attention and value in relation to what they are actually worth. Their emotional development is stunted and they never truly mature into full adults.

Another trend I have seen is women getting knocked up by bad boy deadbeats in their early years, with one or more children. The deadbeat bad boy eventually disappears, is unreliable and overall useless. She later finds a stable and reliable good man, not necessarily a push over but a solid respectable guy, and tries to have him as the father for her illegitimate children. This would have been the type of guy she ignored when she was younger, or perhaps had a chance with but rejected because he was "boring".