Your body/physique matters and what you can/should do about it

sangheilios

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I see some nonsense like how "dad bods" are in, fat acceptance, etc. and it just makes me cringe. For a woman to have a BMI in the obese range and up is not a death sentence in regards to her getting men, as there will still be plenty of them that would bend over backwards just to get a chance at her lol. However, with men this is most certainly not a luxury that you can enjoy and by being out of shape and overweight you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage. I've seen stats that showed women found something like 2/3rds of men or around that number as "below average" regarding their attractiveness. They are factoring in things like hygiene, attire, height and face but also your body, which accounts for a huge part of your degree of attractiveness to women. Unless you are very gifted socially or in regards to status or finances, an overweight, or worse, obese man is going to struggle big time. While you obviously can't change your face or your height, you most certainly can improve upon your physique.

Another issue that I've seen online, particularly in regards to fitness/bodybuilding oriented audiences, is the push for the photo shopped look you see on magazines. I've been around gym culture since I was 18, so over a decade, and here is my input on this. All of these men use steroids regardless of what they tell you, and in my opinion there is no reason any man, outside of professional athletes or military servicemen, should feel the need to go down this route. Another thing is these guys look big in their photos on social media but when you see them in real life they look nothing like it. From my observations, I think a lot of this has to due with them being really short, most are barely passed 5' tall, and rely on lighting, photo angles and such to appear this way. Also, most women are in fact NOT attracted to the roided up, excessively lean and veined look you see on guys like this.

Now, what a man should strive for is a look where they appear fit and athletic. Most guys can do this with a basic gym routine and eating a balanced diet, meaning no overly restrictive diets, etc. Granted, some people have better genetics for this than others but all men should strive to be fit. I think this becomes even more important as you get older and a man who maintains a fit body into his 30s and up is actually setting himself apart by a large margin. I'm going to be 31 in a few months and I've found that most men that are my age are already well over the hill and look nothing like me. I had a friend, who was a year older than me and quite overweight, ask a woman how old she thought we were. She thought he was late 30s and that I was 26 or 27.
 
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BackInTheGame78

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Here is what my experience has been. I have been in exceptional shape and single digit bodyfat with abs that showed through a tight shirt. I have been 20 lbs over that weight, with body fat around 16-20% and honestly have done better than when I was in better shape.

At the end of the day, you only have to be "attractive enough" physically for a woman and then it becomes what other qualities you bring to the table.

The mistake many guys make is they think once they get in great shape and make a bunch of money, etc then it should all come easy. But here is the thing. If a woman has 7 or 8 things they look for in a guy, no matter how much you elevate your score in 1 or 2 categories, it stil only counts for those 2 categories. If you are are normally a 7 in looks and a woman's minimum is a 6, then going to an 8 isn't doing much for you. She was already fine with the way you looked.

But you still have to talk to them, have them enjoy spending time with you, know how to transition from various stages of escalation within an appropriate timeframe and then be good in the bedroom once the clothes come off.

Additionally the things that attract them initially are not usually going to be what keeps them attracted longterm.
 

OldComeBacker

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I agree about reaching your genetic potential and being in the best shape you can be for yourself and your health in general. But when it comes to dating I did better when I was a little bit fatter and I've certainly been "beaten out" by dad bods (including on younger guys, which I do find strange) and objectively less handsome men plenty of times. I've also known a few guys who think and talk like "just wait until I'm ripped, all women will want me" and then after making the gym their lives next to no women want them. Be fit and attractive but you'll never appeal to all women and you might turn some off with your vibe.
 

Tilex

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Couple things I wanna mention:

Working out is more than just for physique sakes.
It boosts your testosterone levels. Higher levels of testosterone = More energy

Most guys get dad bods from drinking beer or rum.
It's okay to drink alcohol, but stick with clear liquors and choose higher proof.
I don't drink often, but when I do it's always 100-proof vodka.
I rarely gain weight after drinking higher proof liquor. I've tested many types of liquors and proofs to get this calorie formula right.

Steroids is still listed as a black market item in most countries.
Even if you do manage to get your hands on it, you still won't know the full purity of it.
It's about equivalent as c0ke. (Not easy to get/Not pure)
Plus, there are long term side effects.

There are a lot of guys that don't know how to show off their physique.
Meaning, they wear clothes that hide their bodies.
Wearing a suit, dress clothes, or office casual prevents anyone from seeing your chiseled muscles.
 
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oOh Nasty

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Just a quick two cents.

Do intermittent fasting. Learn about it and train yourself to eat once a day, almost every day (if you can).

You can kill a few birds with one stone:

- Cost of food.
- Less meal planning. You don't have to think about eating the whole day, until that one time you have to eat.
- Easier calorie restriction. How much can you possibly eat in one sitting? Even if you go all out sometimes, there's a good chance you're still eating less than 3 regular meals.
- Look up "autophagy."
- It's really not that difficult once you get used to it. You get into a state where, if you feel hungry, it's just a simple hunger that's easily overcome and not a ravishing low blood-sugar feeling kind of hunger.

Extras:

- Drink pure black coffee. It doesn't break your fast. Curbs appetite.
- Drink green tea. Way too many good things about it. Doesn't break your fast. Strengthens autophagy. Curbs appetite. Not to mention the regular good things, like being loaded with antioxidants, etc.
- Do research on basic vitamins and take supplements. You might become low on essential vitamins because of fasting and not having a good variety of food. Off the top of my head, make sure you're getting enough C, B-complex, D3, zinc, fish oil, a bit of calcium, magnesium, a bit of vitamin E, etc. Read up on it. Take them when you eat or spread it throughout the day.
- Do HIIT in a fasted state for some major fat burning.
 

sangheilios

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I recommend working out and things like that but there are a lot of guys for whom the return-on-investment doing that in terms of women is not really going to be worth it.

A good physique can also be a huge crutch because you neglect other facets of attraction that are as or more important.
I agree with the last part, there really is nothing worse than a gym meathead that has very little else going for him. If you carry around a shaker bottle all the time and refuse to eat when you are out with friends so you don't cheat on your diet.....you just come across as a douchebag. That's why I mentioned that there was no reason to idolize any of those bodybuilder types you see in magazines or on instagram.
 

Clamslammer

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Here is what my experience has been. I have been in exceptional shape and single digit bodyfat with abs that showed through a tight shirt. I have been 20 lbs over that weight, with body fat around 16-20% and honestly have done better than when I was in better shape.

At the end of the day, you only have to be "attractive enough" physically for a woman and then it becomes what other qualities you bring to the table.

The mistake many guys make is they think once they get in great shape and make a bunch of money, etc then it should all come easy. But here is the thing. If a woman has 7 or 8 things they look for in a guy, no matter how much you elevate your score in 1 or 2 categories, it stil only counts for those 2 categories. If you are are normally a 7 in looks and a woman's minimum is a 6, then going to an 8 isn't doing much for you. She was already fine with the way you looked.

But you still have to talk to them, have them enjoy spending time with you, know how to transition from various stages of escalation within an appropriate timeframe and then be good in the bedroom once the clothes come off.

Additionally the things that attract them initially are not usually going to be what keeps them attracted longterm.
Keep in mind that girls will get intimidated as well. Sure you can pull a lot of sloots if your high value guy but you will also scare off a lot of girls that are long term relationship materials because they will feel insecure.
 

darksprezzatura

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If the sole reason behind keeping fit and working out is getting women, it's easy to backslide once you get a plate or two.


Frame 1:

You are essentially jumping through hoops to qualify yourself to women.


Frame 2:

Instead, loving fitness as a lifestyle and a priority above any woman can appear as a "main plate" you have, creating competitive anxiety amongst any woman you approach.

All this happens subconsciously.
 

sangheilios

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If the sole reason behind keeping fit and working out is getting women, it's easy to backslide once you get a plate or two.


Frame 1:

You are essentially jumping through hoops to qualify yourself to women.


Frame 2:

Instead, loving fitness as a lifestyle and a priority above any woman can appear as a "main plate" you have, creating competitive anxiety amongst any woman you approach.

All this happens subconsciously.
Exactly; which was what I was trying to allude to in my post about not idolizing bodybuilder types and that this can be achieved without that much effort. The point I was trying to make is that men should strive to be in shape but it doesn't necessarily need to be taken to the degree where it takes over your life.

This is personally a hobby that I enjoy, I enjoy working out, getting in better shape, etc. I've been into lifting since I was a teen, though of course I've had years where it took a backseat and I was just maintaining more or less. However, I've also been into swimming, boxing/kickboxing and still enjoy things like hiking, running, yoga, etc.
 

sangheilios

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Keep in mind that girls will get intimidated as well. Sure you can pull a lot of sloots if your high value guy but you will also scare off a lot of girls that are long term relationship materials because they will feel insecure.
In my opinion, if a woman is scared off by a guy who is fit and attractive it's probably in that man's best interest to not have her in his life. Can you imagine dating or being a relationship with someone like that? You'd constantly have to deal with their issues like them checking in on you all the time or whatever.
 

BackInTheGame78

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I agree about reaching your genetic potential and being in the best shape you can be for yourself and your health in general. But when it comes to dating I did better when I was a little bit fatter and I've certainly been "beaten out" by dad bods (including on younger guys, which I do find strange) and objectively less handsome men plenty of times. I've also known a few guys who think and talk like "just wait until I'm ripped, all women will want me" and then after making the gym their lives next to no women want them. Be fit and attractive but you'll never appeal to all women and you might turn some off with your vibe.
Once a woman is OK with how you look physically its the other things that matter, especially how she feels when she is around you. No amount of getting ripped or in better shape will trump a guy that makes her simply feel better.
 

Georgepithyou

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Workput for your self not for wpmen, but also work on your social skills. If you have ever been on the bodybuilding forum you will have noticed most men have the bodies of A fitness model but no social skills.

You can look and dress the best, but women will not approach you.
 

BackInTheGame78

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#1 impetus for my working out is attracting women.

Better mind, better health, larger bone density, blah blah blah.

When I'm in a LTR, I have significantly less desire to work out.

Exercise is torturous and uncomfortable, which is why there are so many fat Americans.

It is easier to eat and drink and pretend that women have no preference for fvucking guys with exceptionally fit bodies.

There is no long-term side effects from steroids. No one has ever died from steroids, either.
Well...not immediately but many have died from the side effects over time...high blood pressure, enlarged heart, etc...

Steroids are not necessarily really bad, just something that needs to be really understood well before using them. Far too many people have no idea what they are doing with them and suffer the consequences eventually.
 

Lookatu

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It's all about balance as others have alluded to.

Guys workout to improve their physique
Guys eat healthy to improve their health
Guys improve their mind/relationship skills being on here or other forums to be better with women
Guys buy more fashionable clothing/better fitting to show off their bodies
Guys buy products to improve their hygiene
Guys read/learn to improve their money situation
Guys engage/learn meditation, philosophy, deeper thoughts to improve their minds

If you are not doing all of these, you are not in balance and you are leaving things on the table and not being the best you can be.
 

sangheilios

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There is no long-term side effects from steroids. No one has ever died from steroids, either.
Well...not immediately but many have died from the side effects over time...high blood pressure, enlarged heart, etc...

Steroids are not necessarily really bad, just something that needs to be really understood well before using them. Far too many people have no idea what they are doing with them and suffer the consequences eventually.

Steroids definitely have side effects that can cause health issues down the road. Even on TRT dosages your red blood cell count increases, which past a certain point increases your risk of stroke. I have seen a study where men even on a low dose testosterone steroid cycle saw their HDL cholsterol decrease and their LDL increase, and it was shown that this became worse the higher the dosages get. Something else that I think many fail to account for is the fact that this shuts down your natural hormone production and if done for a long enough period of time, especially without coming off at all, it is possible to have your body struggle to create it's own testosterone and therefore forcing your to rely on TRT for life. And this is just with regular testosterone cycles, I'm not going to get into more hardcore drugs like tren, for instance.

There are a whole host of potential complications that arise, particularly when you are getting into a concoction of other drugs, and I personally feel there is no reason for a normal man to go down this route. In my opinion, I feel the only people who should consider this are aspiring or current professional athletes, as virtually everyone in their world is also on drugs and you'd need them in order to compete.
 

DelayedGratification

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From personal experience, getting fit and buffed got me more success in dating pool about 200%. It's the best thing I ever did.
Same here. As I've been progressing to the next level (working on body fat %), I'm noticing at least a small boost in attention from strangers. Unfortunately I don't have social circle right now to maximize it, but it's good to have some positive feedback. Some less subtle feedback was from my plate that I see every two weeks or so. I took off my shirt to change and she was like, "wow! that fitness game you use works!"

For me, being fit feels good. It makes me feel good about how I look. It engenders more positive social interactions, which in turn boosts my self-confidence and tamps my anxiety. All of which help me to have the drive to work on myself in other aspects.

Agree that it's not the only thing, but yeah it's pretty important. And it's pretty high on the list of things that will disqualify you if it's absent.
 

Romanemp22

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Same here. As I've been progressing to the next level (working on body fat %), I'm noticing at least a small boost in attention from strangers. Unfortunately I don't have social circle right now to maximize it, but it's good to have some positive feedback. Some less subtle feedback was from my plate that I see every two weeks or so. I took off my shirt to change and she was like, "wow! that fitness game you use works!"

For me, being fit feels good. It makes me feel good about how I look. It engenders more positive social interactions, which in turn boosts my self-confidence and tamps my anxiety. All of which help me to have the drive to work on myself in other aspects.

Agree that it's not the only thing, but yeah it's pretty important. And it's pretty high on the list of things that will disqualify you if it's absent.
Totally agree man. It becomes a part of you, that's why I work out spiritually. Some may call me crazy but it's just the way I am. Even when I get old I hope I will still be in the gym pumping my azz off.
 

derby1

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pre-first lockdown, I was around 18% bodyfat, and women would come onto me A LOT.

i literally needed NO GAME, could have been dumb as bag of hammers.

it was amazing to experience the pass cards women give and dont give.
 
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