Your advice--friend wants sister, I want friend's girl

[Salacious D]

I have a sister, Gwen, who is a freshman. I happen to like my sister, I value her opinions, I think she's cool and intelligent. One of my best friends, Rich, happens to want my sister. But here's the thing. He has a girl, Lily. Rich and Lily say that they're not together, but that's a total farce. They sleep together, spend a great deal of time together but for whatever reason never show their affection for each other physically in public. I've never seen them kiss, for example, and I've known them both for three years, they've been together, as far as I know, for at least one.

So Rich wants my sister. I guess I'm not sure if he really wants to stay with Lily, he's quite physical with my sister, comes on to her often, sometimes while Lily is nearby, sometimes not. Rich and Gwen haven't taken it beyond flirting. My sister reciprocates almost fully, and would definitely go all the way with him, if not for one factor. Lily has become one of her best friends, she loves Lily, and Lily loves her. She's said that she likes Lily enough to not betray her by getting together with Rich. Lily also happens to be one of my better friends (she's my best female friend). We're physical with each other to a generous extent but not one on the same scale as my sister and Rich.

I know that Lily does not like how Rich wants my sister. Lily's told me that "it hurts." In spite of her telling Rich that she's not into the idea of them being together, Rich continues to persist flirting with my sister as much if not more than before when it became such a problem to Lily that she had to tell Rich that she didn't like that he was doing it (heh, read that sentence twice...).

Don't worry, I'm getting to the question, the whole situation is complicated. Lily, I think, loves Rich. There are little things I've observed here and there, I'll detail them if asked, to suggest that. I think that he loves her too, but I'm not as sure, I mean, he's all over my sister when he knows that Lily doesn't like that he is.

The situation has yet to reach a climax. Here's what I think'll happen, correct me if you think I'm wrong:

A) Lily will deliver an ultimatum. Lay off Gwen or I go. I don't think that this is likely, because, as I said, Lily probably loves Rich and I doubt she'd want to lose him.

B) Rich will break up with Lily for Gwen, one way or another. This is what I think has the best chance of happening.

C) Things will go back to normal, Rich with Lily, Gwen just a friend. I think we've passed this point.

My concern is based on what would happen, basically, if Rich and Lily split up for whatever reason. That reason is currently my sister. It's possible that I'm taking things too far, but as far as I know, she's been the biggest challenger to the stability of their relationship. Here's the deal:

I want Lily! I don't need to tell you why, it's for the basic reasons. I just do. For as long as I've known her I've never thought about "going after" her because she's either been with Rich or clearly been interested in Rich. But if Rich goes I've been thinking that I'm the viable candidate for his replacement. I could do it. The question is, should I? Rich is one of my best friends, as is Lily. Rich gets with my sister, I get with Lily, is everyone really happy? Would it work for Lily and I as well as it worked for Rich and Lily? Don't say that friends getting together never work out, because those two were friends, maybe best friends, before they hooked up, and they've been "together," having sex, for at least a year. Give me your opinions, and thanks for reading!

 

[micecubes]

sounds like something off THE OC

 

[DJoneday]

If your friend goes for your sister - I see nothing wrong with that. But going for you friends girl isn't a good idea. There's more fish in the sea, and going for one of the few that your friend has already had could cause problems with you, your sister, and your friend.

 

[Salacious D]

sounds like something off THE OC

I agree. It's crazy complicated.

There's more fish in the sea, and going for one of the few that your friend has already had could cause problems with you, your sister, and your friend.

How so?

 

[blienk]

Life is not an episode of Dawson's Creek, don't blow this out of proportion. Do whatever it is you really want to do. Don't get caught up in meaningless drama.

 

[mrsoy]

lemme just say this...

dating a friends ex is no fun unless the girl is really somethin..every 5 minutes you start to think about her and your friend making out among other things..icky

kinda 'against' the 'rules' but rite now im dating my friends exgf..she essentialy left him for me since i had broke up with my gf..he had no problems and im still friends with him..its really not a big deal imo..the worst part is thinking about them making out when they were together,but you get over it when youre fvcking her

 

[AC/DC]

Tell your sister Gwen to talk to Lily about your friend Rich.

Explain your goals to your sister and see if Lily wouldn't mind.

Remember: Rich and Gwen dont have to be together for you and Lily to be.

 

[Salacious D]

I might just do that, AC/DC.

every 5 minutes you start to think about her and your friend making out among other things..icky

Maybe your friend is an ugly bastard, but I wouldn't say the same about Rich. I could care less about what they do, or what they have done.

Do whatever it is you really want to do.

Trouble is, the three of them are people I care about.

edit: anyway, for the longest time I've never had all my eggs in one basket. I need to see what happens, I don't want to make the first move. I don't want to split Rich and Lily up, I want them to do it on their own.

 

[mrsoy]

Originally posted by Salacious D

Maybe your friend is an ugly bastard, but I wouldn't say the same about Rich. I could care less about what they do, or what they have done.

lol thats exactly it,its one of those things like "JESUS what were you thinking??" it wouldnt be so weird if my friend was relatively good looking,but hey **** happens

 

[mrsoy]

Originally posted by Salacious D

Maybe your friend is an ugly bastard, but I wouldn't say the same about Rich. I could care less about what they do, or what they have done.

lol thats exactly it,its one of those things like "JESUS what were you thinking??" it wouldnt be so weird if my friend was relatively good looking,but hey **** happens,we all make mistakes haha

 

[jonny football hero]

This is too ****ed up. Take a step back and get some perspective on it man. Do you trust this guy with your sister? do you want lily that badly?

 

[Salacious D]

Do you trust this guy with your sister?

Yes. He is my friend. As far as I know he's been a good companion to Lily, up until now, and if he were to get involved with Gwen I don't see how he'd treat her any different.

do you want lily that badly?

Yes, unfortunately I do. She emailed me yesterday, here is the full verbatim text--

ian get on line. i want to talk to you. hope youre having a good time. lily.

Made me happy. edit: I didn't recieve the message until three hours later, while I was actually talking to her. Also, have a look at this conversation we had online last night. The only thing that troubles me is that she didn't give me an exact date, but if she says we're going to hang out alone, we're going to hang out alone. She doesn't back out of things like this.

A little background--we hang out outside of school at least once a week, but always with other people there. We have been alone before, but it's rare. Doesn't happen enough. We've only spoken online twice, both times have gone about two hours.

her: so anyway
her: what haven't we talked about
her: ?
me: there are always more things to talk about
her: i know
her: i was just commenting that we've covered a good deal of bases. i'm impressed
her: i've probably said more to you than i've said all week combined (well except for what i said to myself)
me: nice to know
me: flattering
me: kind of..
her: no youre just easy
her: !!!
me: am I?
her: easy to talk to
me: trouble is we're not talking
her: and probably easy in other ways to
me: remains to be seen
me: we don't talk enough in person
her: i know
her: we can remide
her: that
me: I don't think I've ever felt satisfied on how much time I've spent talking to you in person
her: if you wnat
me: love to
me: and we NEVER talk alone
her: we're always in a group
me: yep yep yep
her: yeah
her: that can change
her: i don't know if i say as much in person
me: if you don't it's my fault as much as it is yours
her: not blaming you
me: I'm blaming me
her: online i have to rely on what i type, but in person there is so much more to communitcation
me: i think i get carried away with the other stuff
her: other stuff?
her: like body language eye contact
her: in person silence is fine
her: it doesn't seem as weird
me: it is different online
her: but online i say more because there is nothing else to do
me: yeah
her: it forces me to have a reason for saying things more
her: and i guess it forces me to think
me: there is pressure
her: or else everything we said would be
her: lol
her: cool
her: what's up
her: youknow
her: ...
me: well, if it helps
me: I never talk to anyone online as much as I talk to you WHEN I talk to you
me: which seems to happen about once every three weeks
me: but I would rather do the talking in person
her: only twice so far
me: even if there wasn't as much of it
her: i think
me: so do I...
her: okay
her: should i drive right over now?
her: haha
me: if it were yesterday
me: I'd seriously consider it
her: what difference does it make?
her: school?
me: yes
me: next weekend
me: there's always another weekend
her: it's a date
me: saturday?
her: god, i can't be that committed
her: it will happen
her: we'll leave it at theat
her: that


That was yesterday. Today I saw her only for a second, she slapped my ass with some kind of paper thing, ruffled my hair when walking into the auditorium, various flirty things. They aren't out of the ordinary, though.

Here's the deal. A few months back there was this stupid arrangement we made that I never took seriously, that if Rich and Gwen had sex I could do it with Lily. Apparently Lily says she flirted with me a lot but I don't remember noticing, she flirts with me a great deal anyway, but she said that she was doing it "mostly" to get back at Rich for wanting to leave her in the first place. How can I be sure that she isn't doing that now, that if we chill it isn't just to get back at Rich? How can I ask her?

Thanks for reading...

 

[Jester]

uhm i didnteven bother reading more than the first sentence.

i didnt feel like having my mind polluted with your retardedness.


Anyway salacious D.

I would recommend you get control over yourself and reconsider who you consider friends.


If you are controlled by sex, you are no DJ, and even worse than that you are at the mercy of nature.

So go do what your id is telling you to do, be a loser, **** your "friends" girlfriend. And hell, why dont you join in while your buddy rich is banging your sister. No big deal right?




come on dude, get some sense. get out of this soap opera bull**** your mind is submersed in.

 

[Salacious D]

uhm i didnteven bother reading more than the first sentence.

Then you're clearly qualified to comment on the other nine tenths of the post...

i didnt feel like having my mind polluted with your i didnt feel like having my mind polluted with your retardedness.

Yes it's really too bad that retardedness isn't even a word huh?

I would recommend you get control over yourself and reconsider who you consider friends.

Noted...

If you are controlled by sex, you are no DJ

No, just a sexual organism, like pretty much everything beyond prokaryotes. Sorry, I forgot, DJs are above H. sapiens...

Look, I don't want this to degenerate into flames. If you don't have anything to say beyond "you just suck" then get out of the conversation.

 

[Jester]

Ok listen mr sexual organism you do just suck if your main focus in life is your obsession with your friends girlfriend.


Honor isnt science fiction people, it exists for a reason. If everyone acted like salacious d here the world would not be a very happy place.



Btw, lemme know how your friend screwing your sister and you screwing the girl thats infatuated with him works out....


The righteous do not let temptations stray them from their path. remember that guys.

 

[CyranoDeBergerac]

Listen Sal, you need to quit the mental masturbation. Right now.

You could learn a loooooooot from Jester here. I don't know if he's 'the' Jester, or someone who admires the tecnique but this man knows what he is talking about. If his referrence to retardedness offends your sense of the grammatically correct, then perhaps retardation would suite you better. Either way only fools and lawyers can justify dismissing the logic of an arguement because of a question of semantics.

Your convo was sophmoric in the truest sense of the word. What I read was her blabbing on and on about the differences between talking in person and over IM, scintillating conversation to be sure! Meanwhile you're so involved trying to score a date that you fail to notice she's making arrangements to hang out with a friend.

Here's how things ARE happening... Lily hates that Rich is not only ignoring her, but consciously pursuing your sister. Some flirting might be genuine affection, but I'll wager cohiba to cuervo that most of it is natural conversation or get-back for Rich's audacity for being so flagrant and insenstitive to her in his dalliances with you sister. Rest assured no matter how much you want her, she could not possibly care for you as much as she does Rich right now.

As for Rich, you're basically telling me that you don't mind him seducing your 13-14yo sister...fvcking her brains out in addition to whatever other sexual acts he'll have her perform. Can you actually imagine your sister doing that? All this only to have her become deleriously attatched to him as only a high school girl could be and have him break her heart just like he's tearing out Lily's and smearing it with his man butter?

You say it won't change anything, but you're wrong. Things by their inherent nature mustchange, and in this case, having travelled that road, I could not possibly be for the better. I've dated my best friend's sister and my sister's best friend before. Sweet girl, but sour aftermath. I know better now. It's like starting a relationship with twice as much baggage to be dealt with as everyone else. Why intentionally create drama when there's plenty enough in any relationship as it is?

Rich and Lily will come and go and the emotional havoc you leave in your wake can be forgotten for those two, but you'll have to live with that damage to your sister for the rest of your life. Make no mistake that to Rich, Lily and your sister are just other pieces of tail as easily used and disposed of (and apparently bartered) as a common roll of toilet paper. If you go through with that farce of an agreement you're only validating his point of view. You're telling me and all of the other brethren on this site that your need for a break Lily and sample her nana supercedes your protective instinct for your family. No piece of tail is worth that. None. Nada. Nunca.

If you want to go after Lily I encourage you with all my best wishes to do so. Rich is little more than a talking phallas at this point and she's the one who's going to feel the complete emotional devastation that he's sowing with his complete lack of respect for her and wreckless action. If he wants your sister, break up with Lily, but my guess is he's been leading her on all along. If you can do better, and the both of you are happier. If you want to resign yourself to the status of a walking phallus just like him, get off this site because you are no Don Juan. You are no Alpha male. You first must be a man and men are more than just a phallus with a body attached. That was the point Jester was trying to make. Mine is much more simple to understand...

Bros before Hoes, but family first.

-CyranoDeBergerac

 

[Salacious D]

Lily hates that Rich is not only ignoring her

Allow me to clarify. Just for the record, with the information provided, I would have drawn the same conclusion as you. Rich is not "ignoring" Lily, I still consider them to be together. He gives as much attention to her as before, at the very least I've noticed no difference. That doesn't mean he ignores my sister either, but it does mean that he hasn't made the switch from one girl to another.

but consciously pursuing your sister

Agreed. If I didn't say this before, I'll say it now--she doesn't like that Rich wants Gwen.

cohiba to cuervo that most of it is natural conversation or get-back for Rich's audacity for being so flagrant and insenstitive to her in his dalliances with you sister.

Perhaps. As far as I know she has not told him that we're conversing, and neither have I. How can she get back at him if he doesn't even know about it?

What I read was her blabbing on and on about the differences between talking in person and over IM, scintillating conversation to be sure!

Her intelligence is not on trial here, and that was only a sliver of what we talked about that night and last night. It was not meant to exhibit her character but rather to help others help me decide if she wants to hang out with me alone. I asked her about it last night, when we chatted again--told ourselves we would be off at 9:15 because of her homework and my fatigue but instead got off at 9:45--this is what she said at the very beginning of the conversation:

me: I'm wondering about something
her: go on
me: this question has been on my mind
her: yes...
me: do you or don't you want to hang out with me?
me: I guess I got kind of a mixed reaction to my invitation
her: it wasn't supposed to be mixed
her: i want to hang out with you i'm just not sure when i can
her: i just didn't want to commit to a certain night and then not be able to because that always happens to me and i feel bad

She's essentially giving the best answer that I could have hoped for, and I gave her a chance to back out, and she didn't. I'll acknowledge that none of this means anything until she is actually alone with me for an extended period of time, but it's the best evidence I can provide. We have done a lot while in a group, what we'd do on our own, given enough time, is limitless. And I'm not just talking about having sex.

she could not possibly care for you as much as she does Rich right now.

Agreed. But I think, given time, that can change.

As for Rich, you're basically telling me that you don't mind him seducing your 13-14yo sister

Just for the record, fifteen in April. I do mind but I don't believe that I have the authority to get in their way. I'd rather they didn't. In fact, had I been able to choose, I would have preferred that Rich never developed a thing for my sister, that he and Lily remained together and that I never got it in my head to get with her. There is still a good chance that things will go back that way, and I will not oppose it if it does because it is not my place to.

Why intentionally create drama when there's plenty enough in any relationship as it is?

Before I was interested in her I considered her a fascinating person and I still feel the same. We differ on many subjects and there is much I can learn. Other than the sex, which would be great, that is the best justification that I can think of.

Rich and Lily will come and go and the emotional havoc you leave in your wake can be forgotten for those two, but you'll have to live with that damage to your sister for the rest of your life.

I disagree on all the points presented here. Gwen does not want me getting in the way now and she will appreciate my cooperation in the future whether they wind up getting married or whether Rich dumps her for another pair of breasts. She wouldn't listen to me anyway--she's aware of the situation as well as I am.

your need for a break Lily and sample her nana supercedes your protective instinct for your family

I am not going to get in the way of whatever they'll do, whether they get together or not, which is still not definite and will not likely be so for awhile, because I would not want her to get in the way if I was in the same position. She's almost as old as I am, she needs to make her own decisions. I do not have the authority to get in the way, and like I keep saying, Rich is my friend and he is a good guy, he will treat her right, as he has treated Lily right for at least a year and probably much much more.

Rich is little more than a talking phallas at this point and she's the one who's going to feel the complete emotional devastation that he's sowing with his complete lack of respect for her and wreckless action.

I'm not sure if I agree with you here--that's a maybe, not a no, not a yes. I don't know the whole picture, and because we're conversing online, because you don't know all of us personally, you know even less. Lily must see this possibility as well as the rest of us. And Rich is not just a talking phallice, he is intelligent, and in spite of the way I've portrayed him he is not completely dominated by his hormones or his want for women. What I'm saying is, Rich, Lily, Gwen, you, and I have probably arrived at this same conclusion--that what Rich is doing, if he continues along the same vector, is changing everything. If he does abandon Lily it will damage her, Lily must know this. She has concluded either to pull out all the stops to try to get him back, or she is in the process of getting rid of him. I'll find out for sure sooner or later.

Which brings me back to my other question. How can I ask her in a subtle, nonoffensive way if she is using me? Is it even possible?

If you want to resign yourself to the status of a walking phallus

I am not a walking phallice. There is more to her than just boobs, there are plenty of hot girls I could go after, but none of them interest me in the way that she does. Like I said, everything could go back to normal and I would be happy with that, I am not attached to her, not nearly as much as I know that Rich is. But if there is a chance that I can learn from her, then I am going to take it. For the record, I have always planned, since the possibility of our hanging out alone has become at the very least somewhat realistic, for her to make the first real move (as she did when getting together became a topic of conversation in the first place). She is going to make the decision, not me, and I will support her whichever way she goes, because I win either way.

I hope I've made myself clear, that I've established myself as more than a walking phallice.

Thanks for the input, CDB

The righteous do not let temptations stray them from their path.

Who are the righteous? You? Everyone succumbs to temptations, that's what makes us human. Those who call themselves righteous and the pinnacles of god's creation of tend to be the worst sorts of human beings, ones that exploit others naivete for whatever gain they can concieve of. The only righteous people are the dead--nothing tempts the dead.

 

[ShizamDaMan]

Am I the only one besides johnny football hero that thinks your friend needs to LAY THE F*CK OFF YOUR SISTER??? Christ man, do you *really* want to think of your buddy screwing your sister with your approval? Tell your "friend" to piss off and find a different girl. If I caught some punk kid doing stuff with my sister he'd leave the house in a stretcher.

As for this Lily girl, you need to get off the one-itis and find some other girls. 99% of the time dating a friend's ex isn't worth the hassle.

 

[blienk]

As someone who's 14-year old sister lost her viriginity to my best friend, I can tell you it's not something you want to happen. It might seem ok right now, but it's NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO HAPPEN. Trust me on this one.

As for the rest, stop living your life like its a TV show. Follow my above advice and just stay away from Lily. I can tell from the length and detail of your posts that you're just investing way too much in this.

 

[ShizamDaMan]

Originally posted by blienk
As someone who's 14-year old sister lost her viriginity to my best friend, I can tell you it's not something you want to happen. It might seem ok right now, but it's NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO HAPPEN. Trust me on this one.

As for the rest, stop living your life like its a TV show. Follow my above advice and just stay away from Lily. I can tell from the length and detail of your posts that you're just investing way too much in this.

Someone give this man a dollar, he hit the nail on the head.