"You know we're just going as friends"

[horaholic]

Im going to disagree with GOL, and say dont listen to a word she says. if you have ANY other options for the party, take them, but if not, take this chick to the party and disregard her 'freinds' bullshyt, and dont be afraid to tell her that she should know damn well what a date is, no matter what it's labelled. She's 45, she knows how it works. Its a 50-50 shot of whether she means it or not, so go for it, if she's the only prospect you have.

On the other hand, jehovas witnesses are whacko, so take that into account too.

Good luck.

 

[trv26]

I wouldn't even take her to this dinner thing, unless you don't mind her flirting and perhaps getting it on with some other guy.

Trust me, I'd never take a girl I was working on to a party or similar scene. This way you just make life even more difficult for yourself. Fair enough that you want to get out of the friend zone with her, but please make some excuse and uninvite her from this party. Then perhaps set up something involving just the two of you.

Oh and religious and moral beliefs do not mean a damn thing when they're horny.

 

[zekko]

I remember this one girl I used to hang out with, she always used to tell me we were just friends. My attitude was "yeah, sure, whatever". I just kept trying to push through her resistance and she quickly converted to FB. I didn't care anything about her from a romantic standpoint though, I just wanted in her pants, that probably helped my cause. She wasn't the type who was really into commitments.

So you CAN get out of the friendzone (if you count being a FB as being out of the friendzone). Consider it meeting resistance and pushing forward anyway. I would keep it fun, light, and casual though.

The funny thing is if I had been reading this forum back then I probably would have just nexted her the first time she mentioned being friends. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

[Scorpio13c]

I just can't get around why she even bothers with me! All this for guitar lessons?? & why does she bother to agree to come to the Christmas dinner party? I just figure a attention -hore wouldn't put through the effort...

 

[Joe Stud]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (probably get criticized). I think I would call her and say, "hey, since you mentioned we are just friends, can I speak to you about something as an understanding friend?" then ask her if she minds stepping back and letting you take some hot date that you have recently met (fabricate one) instead. Offer to pay for her new dress, and take her out for a nice dinner as a raincheck. This will make it interesting, as you will see if she gets jealous, or how she reacts. Of course you allude afterwards ... to the "hot night" you had after the party. I would do it, just to have fun messin with her mind a bit, and of course regaining the frame/and your dignity. Its unconventional, but I would play with it that way.

 

[ThatMysteriousGuy]

You don't believe that having female friends are a benefit?

Almost all my friends are female (and no, I'm not a homo), I have received many hookups from them. Trust me when I say they are an asset.

Also hanging out with women, helps you understand how they think. At the same time it enables you to be physically comfortable around them.

EXACTLY. Always cultivate real female friends. I do believe it's by far the very best thing I have going. With a bunch of real female friends a man doesn't have to try nearly as hard to get women, they'll let it be known they're interested.

Social proof
Physically Comfortable
They'll drop barriers and tell you things other women won't about how they feel/think.
Social proof
Women always see me touching while I'm talking as well as being touched
If a girl flakes, you have lots of options so it's no biggie and the flaker's radar picks this up
Girls are less likely to flake in the first place
Professional Daters will avoid you
Extremely possessive women will avoid you
Sluts will avoid you
They'll actively help you unless you start acting AFC, then they'll weird out (good thing, you're doing something wrong)
Social proof
No pressure
They'll be happy to deal with really drunk girls that won't go away
They'll be extremely nice to you because you provide true security in a social environment, they can depend on you without having to get naked for it
Social proof
and a bunch of other things

When a girl says to me "I want to be friends" soon after I meet/talk with her, I think "woo hoo this is ****ing great!". I'll tell them right away I'd love it and that we will both benefit. My genuine enthusiasm always throws them off balance a bit because, well, it is genuine.

If she was bullshaiting and wanted a pawn, she'll go away. If she was actually interested and says that as SOP, she'll quickly try to get out of the friend zone. If she really wants a friend I don't have sex with her even when she (inevitably) gets in a weak moment and starts to try something she'll respect me more than any other man for realizing she's making a mistake when I don't take the opportunity for a convenient lay.

I just make sure that I don't treat them like they're androgynous, non-sexy beings when we go out. They'll hate that even if they are friends, they're still women. They'll resent it if I'm flirting with all of the girls but them. Women friends are pretty cool about that. If you flirt with them in public situations where you're flirting with other girls they won't take it wrong and freak out.

 

[Veridin]

Jehovah's Witnesses, good Lord.... They are not just another church, they are a sect. I have enough experience of them to tell you this: stay away!

A few examples:

--When people leave that church, they are completely ostrasized from their relatives and friends who are still in the church. The minister tells the church that they have been possessed by demons and now serve Satan.

--Many who leave experience deep depression, because they have been living in a false reality full of severe pressure and threats about demons for so long. They often end up in the hospital during their deepest depression. The hospitals, at least here in Sweden, sometimes have volunteers who watch over a depressed patient at night to make sure they don't try to commit suicide. Jehovah's Witnesses send their members to volunteer, lying and saying they are not from JW. When the depressed renegade wakes up in the middle of the night, he finds that a Jehovahs is standing over him, staring at him. The Jehovah's Witness then threatens him, tells him to keep his mouth shut about what the church tells its members. (About demons controlling the world, about mass killings of the unbelievers and taking their homes when Jesus comes, etc.) Or else.

--If a renegade wants to come back to the church, he has to go through a year of hell. He will be treated like dirt by the other members. He will have to stand in the back of the church at every sermon. He will be used practically as a slave to the church for a year, doing all sorts of labor. He will have demons driven out of him by the minister, while other members hold him down while he screams and pretends that demons are flying out of his mouth.

--The demon excorcism isn't limited to returning renegades; it happens to many members. They are held down and the minister stands over them, shouting at them to force the demons to leave. You can imagine what this does to a weak-willed person. They get caught up in it and imagine that demons are leaving their bodies. They go through it many times. While other members of the congregation tell them that they have many demons in them still that need to be excorcised, and it's all just severely freaky.

--Going to a sermon is a must - there was one case where an old woman, more than 90 years old, fell to the floor in her home, damaged her hip, and couldn't get up. She called her granddaughter and asked her to come and help her, since they lived close to each other. But the granddaughter was going to the sermon with her husband and kids, and hung up on her grandmother. The sermon lasted three hours, so it took four hours before the grandmother got help - she had to lie on the floor the whole time. She was too embarrassed to call an ambulance.

--I watched a documentary where one ex-JW said that Judgment Day is always front and center in JW preaching. In the part about the Apocalypse in the Bible, there is one sentence that says you should tell your children at night to "be ready," because when the Apocalypse comes it will be very sudden, and you will have to run up to the mountains immediately or you will be caught in the disasters, and the ghosts and devils from below will come after you or something like that. So Jehovah's Witnesses explain this to their children, and every night they don't say "Good night" to them at bedtime, but "Be ready!"


Bottom line is, Jehovah's Witnesses are bad news.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (probably get criticized). I think I would call her and say, "hey, since you mentioned we are just friends, can I speak to you about something as an understanding friend?" then ask her if she minds stepping back and letting you take some hot date that you have recently met (fabricate one) instead. Offer to pay for her new dress, and take her out for a nice dinner as a raincheck. This will make it interesting, as you will see if she gets jealous, or how she reacts. Of course you allude afterwards ... to the "hot night" you had after the party. I would do it, just to have fun messin with her mind a bit, and of course regaining the frame/and your dignity. Its unconventional, but I would play with it that way.

I agree with everything here, except the part about buying her or paying for her dress. OP is already stuck in that "provider" role by offering to give free lessons, and taking this girl out on a free ride. I say he follows what you said, let her deal with the dress situation, women love shopping for that kind of stuff anyway, and gauge her interest by being the "friend" she says she wanted to be. The perfect crime!

 

[Scorpio13c]

I agree with everything here, except the part about buying her or paying for her dress. OP is already stuck in that "provider" role by offering to give free lessons, and taking this girl out on a free ride. I say he follows what you said, let her deal with the dress situation, women love shopping for that kind of stuff anyway, and gauge her interest by being the "friend" she says she wanted to be. The perfect crime!

Hey, I'm not buying her a dress, she mentioned that she would be wearing one, sounded like it was something special..

 

[FutureSpartan]

EXACTLY. Always cultivate real female friends. I do believe it's by far the very best thing I have going. With a bunch of real female friends a man doesn't have to try nearly as hard to get women, they'll let it be known they're interested.

Social proof
Physically Comfortable
They'll drop barriers and tell you things other women won't about how they feel/think.
Social proof
Women always see me touching while I'm talking as well as being touched
If a girl flakes, you have lots of options so it's no biggie and the flaker's radar picks this up
Girls are less likely to flake in the first place
Professional Daters will avoid you
Extremely possessive women will avoid you
Sluts will avoid you
They'll actively help you unless you start acting AFC, then they'll weird out (good thing, you're doing something wrong)
Social proof
No pressure
They'll be happy to deal with really drunk girls that won't go away
They'll be extremely nice to you because you provide true security in a social environment, they can depend on you without having to get naked for it
Social proof
and a bunch of other things

When a girl says to me "I want to be friends" soon after I meet/talk with her, I think "woo hoo this is ****ing great!". I'll tell them right away I'd love it and that we will both benefit. My genuine enthusiasm always throws them off balance a bit because, well, it is genuine.

If she was bullshaiting and wanted a pawn, she'll go away. If she was actually interested and says that as SOP, she'll quickly try to get out of the friend zone. If she really wants a friend I don't have sex with her even when she (inevitably) gets in a weak moment and starts to try something she'll respect me more than any other man for realizing she's making a mistake when I don't take the opportunity for a convenient lay.

I just make sure that I don't treat them like they're androgynous, non-sexy beings when we go out. They'll hate that even if they are friends, they're still women. They'll resent it if I'm flirting with all of the girls but them. Women friends are pretty cool about that. If you flirt with them in public situations where you're flirting with other girls they won't take it wrong and freak out.

This is pretty good advice. I think too many guys either just aren't patient enough or too easily infatuated with any woman that crosses their path, so to protect their ego they burn bridges.

Granted some women aren't worth keeping around, but if she seems like a genuinely cool person and has lots of female friends, then hell why not just be friends? In the OP's case though I would not be too fond hanging around her JW crew haha.

 

[f283000]

Anytime a woman you are interested in gives you the friend card it is time to forget about her. This same jehova's witness would suck the ____ out of a guy she just met if he is the right guy. Women are sluts for the right guy and unfortunately you are not the right guy for her (whether she be religious or not).

Any man that would even consider going to a party with a woman that gives them the friend card before they even go is not really a man. A real man does not put up with such disrespect.

Would you have still gone if she had told you that you ain't man enough for her? i bet not but guess what that is what the friend card is.

 

[horaholic]

Anytime a woman you are interested in gives you the friend card it is time to forget about her. This same jehova's witness would suck the ____ out of a guy she just met if he is the right guy. Women are sluts for the right guy and unfortunately you are not the right guy for her (whether she be religious or not).

Any man that would even consider going to a party with a woman that gives them the friend card before they even go is not really a man. A real man does not put up with such disrespect.

Would you have still gone if she had told you that you ain't man enough for her? i bet not but guess what that is what the friend card is.

What, have you never turned a "were going as friends," in to a fvck? I have a few times. You should know not to listen to what they say. Now, if she has really made it pretty clear that are you ARE only friends, its a different story, but just saying "we're just going as friends,' one time doesnt mean you're frined zoned. She might be PLANNING on being just friends, but if they just met, that can be turned around quickly. You're not FZ'd until either you have been outright rejected, or you missed the window of opportunity by not escalating.

As far as having female friends, I dont think its a bad idea, but dont get too close to any of them. I have plenty of female aquaintances, as opposed to friends, and I can tell you they do more harm than good. as far as being a wingman, or social proof. They subconciously cokblock, even if they are TRYING to hook you up with one of their freinds.I also dont think its a good thing to be so inside their head either, or you'll be poisoned with estrogen and get a bunch of AFC crap stuck in your head. Also, women pick up cues from guys who have lots of chick friends that they are not sexworthy, or else all those chicks wouldnt have LJBF'd him in the first place.


Dont get too close to them as 'freinds.' Be 'acquaintances' that can have a drink together, but DO NOT EVER call them on the phone just to talk, or see movies, or any of the typical FZ shyt

I'll tell you what does work, though, is being friends with chicks you've previously fvcked, or dated. All their friends know how good in bed you are, and how good of a guy you are (for me anyway) and word gets around about your good points as a sexworthy guy. Other girls can sense these things, and your value increases in their eyes. Also, ex's WILL tell you what you do wrong, and right. Just Friends, cant really give that kind of insight.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Hey, I'm not buying her a dress, she mentioned that she would be wearing one, sounded like it was something special..

I didn't say you were buying her a dress. I said you shouldn't, as suggested by that post. Anyway, you focused on what you thought I said, and not on the real issue, the fact that you probably shouldn't take her to this dinner. Seems you suffer from a little bit of selective listening.

A few questions I've already asked you, but you overlooked by focusing on less relevant details to your situation.

Would you consider doing what Joe Stud suggests, minus paying for her dress? That was the best advice I've read here, well, second best advice. That is a tip I see myself using if I'm ever faced with a similar situation. First best advice would be to cut ties, but looks like you consider her worth pursuing, so you will probably give her a try, regardless of what anybody else thinks.

What are you looking for with this woman? Long term, marriage, casual dating with or without sex?

A few more questions:

In your previous relationships, dates, etc., have you normaly been seen as the "provider" type and man who pays for everything and anything the woman requires?

Would you be going through all of this if you knew there was an absolutely 0% chance you're ever going to see this woman naked? If so, then she might not be bad to pursue. She's told you she's consistently stuck to her guns of NO SEX for 14 years. Buyer Beware!

In your previous relationships, what have been the resons why women have broken up with you, or you with them?

I think the answers will help us understand you and your chances in this scenario, and will help you find some patterns of things you do, or allow, that might be killing your chances when you deal with a lot of the women you pursue.

 

[tafakna]

Agreed. More info is needed.

Sometimes "You know we're just going as friends" means just that, sometimes it means "Keep your expectations low, don't push me" and sometimes "I don't want things to get serious now"...

 

[Scorpio13c]

I didn't say you were buying her a dress. I said you shouldn't, as suggested by that post. Anyway, you focused on what you thought I said, and not on the real issue, the fact that you probably shouldn't take her to this dinner. Seems you suffer from a little bit of selective listening.

A few questions I've already asked you, but you overlooked by focusing on less relevant details to your situation.

Would you consider doing what Joe Stud suggests, minus paying for her dress? That was the best advice I've read here, well, second best advice. That is a tip I see myself using if I'm ever faced with a similar situation. First best advice would be to cut ties, but looks like you consider her worth pursuing, so you will probably give her a try, regardless of what anybody else thinks.

What are you looking for with this woman? Long term, marriage, casual dating with or without sex?

A few more questions:

In your previous relationships, dates, etc., have you normaly been seen as the "provider" type and man who pays for everything and anything the woman requires?

Would you be going through all of this if you knew there was an absolutely 0% chance you're ever going to see this woman naked? If so, then she might not be bad to pursue. She's told you she's consistently stuck to her guns of NO SEX for 14 years. Buyer Beware!

In your previous relationships, what have been the resons why women have broken up with you, or you with them?

I think the answers will help us understand you and your chances in this scenario, and will help you find some patterns of things you do, or allow, that might be killing your chances when you deal with a lot of the women you pursue.

Hey Gangster,
I'll try to answer as best I can..
I would not consider what Joe suggested, we've had this planned too long & I just feel it would make it look like i'm sulking in her eyes.
As far as what I was looking for, casual dating(hoping for eventual sex) hoping it would progress to long term, but marriage is something we'd have to discuss further, as I doubt she would marry a non-JW.
In my previous relationships, I was not a provider type, i may have payed for more than a 50/50 ratio & may have been too nice at times, but I always expected a fairly even reciprocation.
I would not persue this if I new for certain i would never see her naked.
My last relationship ended probably because i never married her & she became miserable, so i ended it. One prior relationship, she ended it, but would never give me a reason as too why. I assumed it was because i wasn't rich enough for her liking.
Anything other questions, please ask. I hope this helps..

 

[Scorpio13c]

Hey Gangster,
Anymore advice?

 

[Scorpio13c]

Hey Gangster,
Anymore advice?

UPDATE:
In the end, I escalated kino (Massage each other) & she emailed the next day saying "We crossed the line between friendship to relationship" she couldn't let it continue if I expexted more. I ended it & she was shocked that I did... I've been very sad, but there was nothing else I could do.