"You have to want it." OK ... how?

[Visceral]

This is going to strike some as the most pvssy question that's ever been asked here; but I feel that it needs to be asked, because an answer to it would fix most of the problems that guys here have.

We've probably all said or been told these two things countless times: "You have to want it" and "You just don't want it enough." Apparently, want - desire, ambition, whatever you want to call it - is a pretty important part of this whole thing.

I don't think anyone's disagreed with me so far, so how about this: if wanting is so important, and not wanting is a big part of why countless guys here haven't lifted a finger, then why hasn't anyone told us how to want?

That was not a typo. I don't know how to want; would someone please tell me how?

The big names here say that guys are just scared or lazy to go after a better life, and they're probably right. However, everyone from Google to my shrink has suggested that want is stronger than both of them; that they lose their power to stop you when you want something bad enough.

If this is so, then what must a man do in order to want something that bad?

 

[NSUballer]

What do you "want"?

 

[Life-Trainee]

It's tricky, you have to justify that what you want is worth getting and it's gonna make your life better despite of upfront sacrifices.

 

[DoubleJuan]

hey bro.

i fully agree with you, this is a question not talked enough about in this forum. i dont have the fully clear picture either but i have many puzzle pieces now due to my own experience and observing of other peoples lives.


first off i think you're missing a key point here. it is NOT that these men who become successful want it, it is that they NEED it. example: i want a delicious argentinian steak along with a tasty salad for dinner but im okay with some eggs and a protein shake too. my friends want a muscular body too but they dont feel the burning NEED to do the hard work. a guy who always the skinniest weakest kid and build up a burning rage against his weak body and the pain that comes with it is more likely to go through the pain of doing the hard work. but this is not always the case. as we all know there are more people with painful pasts who stayed losers. on this forum everyone wants to make it look like doing a 360° change is easy and normal, but it is a rare commodity.

now lets stay with the weightlifting example. there are people who had always "happy" lives and despite that go through the pain of bodybuilding. but realize that they did NOT really change. yes, they did improve which is impressive but they did not totally change. they always were athletic, so this naturally developed as a habit in their youth. and everything that is habit is easy.

but this people who were raised to be successful and happy are not what we talk about.

i have the impression you think that to go after a better life is fun(you do always use the term WANT;it is not to want it is to NEED it). yes it is big fun when you see results but most of the times it is a pain in the azz. when you finally have achieved what you desire THEN improving and making experiences is FUN and about what you WANT. but that only comes after you have achieved what you STRONGLY desire.


now more insights about that guys that do want something that bad that they will overcome anything given time.

these kind of guys where often very poor or raised with very bad social skills and social phobias(and all the things that come with it). the place society gave them was unfair and in no way they can live happily with that what their parents/society gave them. so they dont have much of a choice: suicide, live unhappy and depressed, or painfully change their life for the better.
but again, most people will still not go through the painful change.

the next two things are connected and two more pieces.

the guys who do go for what they need
are the ones with the genetic makeup for it. as i already said this guys have been given a very low status in society unfairly because of unfavourable circumstances. but they have the drive and ability to be more than low status. which means that they have above average T-levels(or at least the ability to have very high T-levels; T-levels can be lowered unnaturaly by lack of exercise, pussified thinking etc.). and they often have a certain brain chemistry too which strengthens their drive even more to achieve success because it makes them take the needed risks and so on.

the other thing would be heavy oneitis. read think and grow rich, there is a chapter called sexual transmutation, sex is the highest motivator, love the second highest motivator - so with being in love and not being able to get the oneitis girls they miss usually out on both sex and love (because they are too hurt to get other girls or still want to get with her and fight for her because they are so in love). they want this girl so bad that they would so almost everything to get with her but they got blown off so what can they do with all this HYPEREMOTIONS now.....they cant express their incredibly big emotions towards the girl........so they express all this anger, pain, hate and love towards the world. they realize that they did go for a quality girl but they arent quality themselves. but they feel that they have the potential to become quality because they must get the girl or at least someone like her. so they either become a violent drug addict etc or they turn their life around to become high status. one step after another. because they NEED to express their painfully strong emotions and their unavoidable urge to become someone of worth.

maybe this sounds a bit to extreme but you werent asking how to improve a bit, you were asking about going after a better life and about how to want something that bad that laziness and fear lose their power to stop you.

 

[ScrewIt]

I think a good form of reasoning is probably to separate wants from needs.

I believe if you want something bad enough, it can easily fall under the needs category.

It's up to the person to choose if he wants it bad enough, if he doesnt then no one can help him.

I also believe that if the person wants something bad enough, the person wouldnt be making excuses not to do it. So for those who always make excuses...you simply dont want it bad enough.

 

[lebRambo]

What about desperation? Clearly, wanting something a lot makes you desperate for that thing. And desperation isn't a good thing, obviously. So maybe you shouldn't 'want' so much.

Maybe you should realize that women are just women. They won't make your life better just by being there, they don't fart rainbows that magically fix up your life, and they WON'T stop you wanting things. Take the time to work on yourself until you are confident enough that you realize this: until you realize that women are just there to improve your life and not be your life, you won't get out of this cycle.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

People mistake WANT for NEED.

I would suggest that most guys who went the PUA route or Project Hollywood did it out of NEED first. After they mastered it, it became WANT to improve. NEED is far greater a motivator than NEED. Need for food, water, clothing, shelter, income, etc, is what has driven most people through life.

If you THINK or dig, you'll see it.

For the guy who's forever fearful of sales, and then has a family, and is stuck in a dead-end job, sales present a double-edged sword: unlimited income, while battling his fear. Eventually he's comfortable and his WANT is to improve each and every time, but there's no NEED, and down the road, his WANT/NEEDS change.

Warren Buffett had a NEED to be rich because he was tired of moving and didn't like having insufficient money. All he did was focus on it, plan it, think it, and work it. Then he found investing, and it was his perfect avenue to creating HIS need. Eventually, it became a WANT to improve, succeed, and help his investors, but initially it was so CONSUMING that he enveloped his life.

Lots of guys WANT better bodies, but nobody has developed the NEED for them. Those that do, do so out of some inferiority complex. Normally it's because they believe it will ultimately get them the girl they want, or they've been beaten up, or they've been SO fat, and SO uncomfortable it's the only solution to their BELIEF/NEED of happiness.

So it's not WANT, it's NEED. Everybody confuses everybody though. That is what CANNOT be given to a person or taught.

You might say "what of the fathers who have kids that are already wealthy?" That, too is need. The father has instilled a sense of accomplishment and the son/daughter must BEST the father's own accomplishments or be viewed a failure. That is need, too, which was it sometimes takes HUGELY successful mentality to break from middle class to wealthy or upper class. The gap is great if you don't see it.

Being successful wealthy, etc, is a mindset. But there are those that who could lose everything and get it back some how. That's the different and that's what the successful have over those that aren't.

To me success is self-reliance at producing results. Anybody can buy a system or copy a system, or buy a dating program, or R/E program, but can you, as a human being do what it is you want to do without needing crutches???

-------------------------

Guys here have varying NEEDS. What were my NEEDS?

*To bang a hot 18 year old. Check.
*To bang a girl or 2 with a big, round arse. Check.
*To bang a spanish girl. Check.
*To be able to feel confident meeting women anywhere. Check.
*To do pickups in a variety of places. Check.

My needs are different now. So it isn't wanting it. Wanting it THAT bad you'll do whatever it takes is like WANTING air when you're so far below the surface you cannot breathe.

My boss/partner/mentor is successful and self reliant because at a young age...

*He had a family, therefore it was sink or swim.
*He lost his mom early.
*He was born into a family of 7, so he had to fend for himself.
*He had a family that had strong wants.
*He had a strong desire/need to provide more than he had for his family.

He averages above 500k, between work and poker and loads of local connections. I could use any example. I'd say Trump was the same way. His dad did real estate. But Trump had a NEED not to be like his dad, which is screw around with low rent tennants. Trump NEEDED to do big projects, to top his dad and stay in the same business. So he has met that NEED now, if you look at his empire.

Alot of Athletes that come from nothing succeed because they have a NEED to escape POVERTY. 50 cent, according to his movie, was in drugs for NEED of money. But the danger was too great, so he had a NEED to replace that income/lifestyle with something greater. He met his need with his talent and was unstoppable.

It's all about SEEING the goal and linking it with an obligatory NEED.

--------------------------

Also...obligation. To other people. If you have a NEED to make a good name and you tell people what you will and won't do, eventually people who care will see what you're saying you will do and notice you're not doing it. SO they'll speak up and say it.

Otherwise, if you're just a college student on minimal income, and there's no motivational need, you don't care. I mean...if you're basic needs in college are beer and sometimes women...you can cover that EASY with $100/month, so you won't work for more.

But if you're BELIEF is you need a car, a good body, clothes, money, etc, to get women in college...you'll work hard to keep it.

The rich little brats that exist, are just motivated enough to MAINTAIN their lifestyle because they have a NEED to stay at the level they're at. A saying will surface that...

"You never know how much money is worth until it's gone. "

Say it's evil, but when you have no options, high healthcare, and a limited choices, money IS important, merely because it gives choices.

--------------------------

Normally we must sink LOW to develop NEED, or identify NEEDs in our life. If you have MET your needs, no wonder most people wallow around in nothingness.

I know you've asked/posted on this before Visceral, but the best way is to explain it as above, and then explain how I've seen it, and how it effects me (not that I'm perfect, but we all have needs). Some of our needs are satisified or not.

*In golf (which I love), I was a 10 hanidcap @ 17, then I turned the sticks in only playing rarely. Finally I got serious (NEED), because I lived, breathed, and loved golf. I love playing good, hitting big drives and tight shots, so I invested HEAVILY in my own ability, probably $1000 this summer alone in education materials, another $1000 in practice @ various ranges, and another $1000 in upgraded clubs. And another $500 in playing golf. Now I'm down to the point I can play to an 8 or better, which is pretty good, given that I don't belong to a club. I'll go and shoot 36, and sometimes blow up to 46, more toward 40's and better though (short game needs work).

*I've dumped loads of dough into lifting, simply because I love the body. I do it because I'm not satisified with what I read and "just taking people's word for it." If you've seen the EBOOK on it, I have it, most likely. It's given me wide knowledge to review products and to make faster gains. Stupid yes, but the information does shorten my time to my goal.

*I love investing, and I've always liked numbers, so I bought many books @18 just because. Just like any kid who likes cars, that's what I did. I dump tons of money into, buy books, go to seminars, buy IBD, Wall Street Journal, etc. I read all the time. Again, NEED.

*Fantasy Football. I have a need to win, so I maintain at least 4 paid for subscriptions to football websites and stay up to the minute on coverage. Again NEED to win coupled with a LOVE of FOOTBALL.

THAT IS LEVERAGE.

I just love improving against myself. I see the last bar I was at, and find a way to move above it. Most people try to amble their own way, or don't open up about it, but i'm pretty open about what I like and don't like and what my goal is or isn't.

If you got the NEED + the LOVE/PASSION, inevitably you will reach FAR above everybody else given your talent. That NEED/LOVE/PASSION is heart. It's what separates ability and inability.

---------------------------

When you look around the world NEEDS are basic, but very motivating. As the hierarchy period suggests, emotional NEEDS are atop it, or the last accomplished. If they are linked to some BASIC need for SURVIVAL or your vision of yourself, then you will and can accomplish whatever you want.

The point is knowing your loves/passion and the NEEDS you have. I'd look at your frustrations, where you want to be, what you want done.

Some guys want money, but they're not doing what they love, so they're pissed alot. Problem is, NEED isn't being met with a love that's possible of getting them there, so it's near impossible without lots of struggle and work against their natural ability. I'd say guys as a whole have a NEED to succeed, and those that do match their love with their NEED and do it. After we're fed, fvcked, and healthy, men are just machines meant to accomplish and get things done. If we're directed at what we're good at, doing it is easy. If we're not, we're an in-efficient machine. Right?

----------------------------

Guys must ask the question...do I need this?



A-Unit

 

[superchristx]

PSYCHO CYBERNETICS

The answer to your question is

Psycho Cybernetics
by Maxwell Maltz

Something that most people don't realize is that their visual picture, their image of the future is what guides them. Someone on a low streak or an inactive streak can change their destination in life by changing the picture of their own future that they imagine.

If you want to change your path in life, change your mental image. Vividly imagine yourself out, "sarging" going out, talking to girls, being naturally attractive and confident. imagine it every day and the small decisions you make will work themselves out.

The book is basically about the difference between your mind and your brain, and getting your brain to work for you instead of against you. good book. i was referred to it by someone on this board.

 

[GuitarOnFire]

Lots of invaluable material here. Thanks guys. That book sounds very interesting.

 

[ScrewIt]

Originally posted by lebRambo
What about desperation? Clearly, wanting something a lot makes you desperate for that thing. And desperation isn't a good thing, obviously. So maybe you shouldn't 'want' so much.

Maybe you should realize that women are just women. They won't make your life better just by being there, they don't fart rainbows that magically fix up your life, and they WON'T stop you wanting things. Take the time to work on yourself until you are confident enough that you realize this: until you realize that women are just there to improve your life and not be your life, you won't get out of this cycle.

i think you guys should research into the 5 STAGES of DYING (or grief and loss).
let me reiterate the 5 points:
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

Well for those of you that took Psych 101 should know what its about. Well anyway it's very similar in the aspect of wanting (in this case to live), which manifests desperation. As it manifests, you go through the first 3 stages. When you realize no matter how desperate you are and it wont make a difference, the 4th & 5th stages reveals itself.

Desperation falls hand in hand with wants. But if you allow your desperation to take over, it will destroy you as a human being.
I believe as long as you want something bad enough, you have control over it. And while maintaining control over it, you do not compromise your self-worth (ego) to attain your desires.

A lot of times patience is a virtue, hence the infamous quote.
As long as you dont make excuses or procrastinate in succeeding our goals, then by all means, TO WANT is the greatest honor of being human.

Why were great civilizations built? Why were laws passed? Why does authority exist? Why is technology ever growing? Why did we send man to the moon? Why are we educated?

The answer is simple. We wanted all the above, and thus we moved towards those goals to accomplish what we set out to do.

Of course down the road, we eventually have to make sacrifices and even jump obstacles to get to where we want to be. Our expectations of success.

 

[DoubleJuan]

psychokybernetics is a very good book but it is a tool for changing yourself, it doesnt create the need that visceral is searching for.

btw visceral one other thing i have experienced....it is completely normal to not have the highest goals at first....it is more like doing it step by step.....and with each goal you have accomplished you will see other needs in your life that you have to take care of. if your life sucks then chances are you cant SEE your ambition to become financially indepentend/wealthy...because there are so much things you need to take care of FIRST. example:first clean your appartment and throw out old things, develop your body a bit, improve your appearance, get better with girls and so on......and when this needs are at least partly taken care of THEN your ambitions will become bigger. it is impossible to have big goals when the "little things" arent taken care of.

btw i have one good link about the needs of a man....it's nothing new on the horizon but the beauty lies in it's simplicity.
when observing other guys lives i could easily see that the masculine happy guys have these needs met to a way bigger extent than the nobodies. the guys who only have little of their needs met live lifes of drug abuse to ease their emptiness....and they have hobbies which make them feel strong, in control and respected like being a pro in a computer game .....but the effect wears of when they are sober and not playing their computer game. and THIS is the downside of this lifestyle. it is not lasting, there is no security in it. and security is a primary need too......for what is being financially independent, physical strong and a DonJuan if not primarely for being secure that ones needs are met in the future?
http://bpphilosophy.blogspot.com/

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Ever see Rollerball?

If you haven't, rent it.

Basically, James Caan plays as an elite Athlete in a corporate game called "rollerball." Initially, it's tame, full of rules and scoring, and blading around a circular track. However, things heat up and they want him to retire for the "sake of the corporation."

The major corporations, such as transportation, energy, food, steel/metal, etc run the world. Nobody knows who owns what, but corporations own everything and nobody has need of ANY want. Everything appears perfect. The only rule is, everybody must adhere to the decisions of the corporations.

This is why Caan was feared and admired. He came on just when Rollerball got popular, now they want to put him out to pasture just to wade his days away. Nobody has anything, there's no need of anything, so they constantly ESCALATE situations.

Eventually Rollerball has NO RULES, NO TIME LIMIT, only the last man standing wins, so scores are unimportant. James Caan wins, only after he killed the opposing team, and most of his own team is dead. People think's its' crazy, but they keep watching, since the escalation of situations in Rollerball gives them SOMETHING to do.

What turned me onto it was an older gentleman who spoke of the "tree part" and said to just rent it. I did. There's a part during a party where a crowd possesses a laser gun that has the ability to blow up trees instantly or shoot a laser fire. Anything it's directed at immediately starts on fire and burns to a crisp. The hoard of people shoot the trees down to nothing while laughing and joking and goofing around. One of the women begins crying and is sadden, as she shot several trees, it still bothers her that THIS is what life comes to when human beings have nothing to work for or strive for.

Moral of the story:

The complacency is deterimental to life. That human beings desire imperfection and a 'gap' between having and not having. It's how we live and become. It's how we're motivated. And to me, it's why we're here.

If your goal is to sit on a beach, sipping margaritas, while listening to Enigma and making wild, passionate, monkey sex (like mine is), then it takes a strong effort to get there. Plenty of planning and work. Learning about biz and investing. And in all likelihood, you won't want to settle down anyways once you get to that point.

We're so sad about LACK, about the GAP, about GOALS...but at least we can DO SOMETHING it! In rollerball, the socialist society run by corporations prevented any interior movement by people. It was play along or be eliminated. Not in a harsh way, because everybody had what they could possibly want, but nobody really worked. The libraries were monitored and the books filtered; original thought was prevented. No art. No music. Nothing. The only sport: rollerball, and big business loved it because people loved it, so they flooded dollars into it and sponsored athletes, etc.

------------------------

That's just it...in this society, you barely have to work to get just enough to get along, so if you've never had much, you don't come to want much. Those who get alot, recognize a right to have it and attain it, and do so from a standpoint of NEED.

Wants we can toss aside, NEEDS we cannot. There are tons of guys that WANT financial independence, a better body, better grades, to do better at work, to learn a trade, to become a salesperson...but if a person REALLY wanted it, they'd sacrifice all else.

Opportunity Costs.

It's as much an economic term as it is a human term. We have 24 hours in 1 day. THAT is our most precious commodity. We can only spend it as we get, just like an allowance, yet time is what's wasted more than money. If you lined up your goals, then divided up your time, I'm sure most would have gads of blown time on stupid things that are truly mind numbing.

*Bars are fun for a release, but it's like being a hamster in a cage, spinning your wheels.
*Video games are a great release, but they're not progressing you toward anything nor teaching you anything (unless you want to design, market, or be involved in them).
*Blowing money, scoping pvssy out is a waste, too. It's everywhere, you don't have to pay for it. Paying for it is a sign of desperation and a lack of confidence in yourself as a man. Really. Women/men are natural connections.

Now pick whatever works for you. Certainly, if your goal is to own/run a bar, you'd want to be there, learn about it, make friends with the owner and bartenders, but don't need to be carried out on a stretcher at the end of the night.

If you don't want it, this planet is populated enough so that someone will come over the top who wants it bad enough and will take it.



A-Unit

 

[Visceral]

Do people really want to strive for things? I admit that I often question its value; life is so comfortable and easy, why would I go out of my way to make it hard and uncomfortable? Unless it were required to maintain the status quo, of course.

I'd say most of us have lost our appetite for effort and suffering. The fact that they can be avoided has eliminated any need to romanticize or ennoble them.

Perhaps we're the victims of our own success. If action is predicated on an unfulfilled need, then what happens when your needs are met and have always been met? I think this is why I used the word "want", to indicate that the thing is not necessary, that it is only because it is possible that one would wish to do it.

There's probably a difference between real needs and perceived needs. The first category covers survival, comfort, etc. The second is what I think A-Unit is talking about. These needs are created by external forces - ads, peer pressure, etc. - but can be just as powerful.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Put another way...

Right now we might be ok earning 50k.
We might have a nice Honda Accord. Maybe we're dating a great girl. We golf sufficiently. Or we watch sports and enjoy that. We have a good family, with it's ups and downs, and you're comfy at work doing what you do. Your body is average, not growing, not shrinking...

However a few things....

1.Life won't last long in such a plastic bubble, so moving from comfort, to discomfort, and back to comfort will be of a priority.

2.We choose the goals not because of what they are or give us, but what we become by doing them.

Jim Rohn said as much.

I admire those who can turn their body around 180, because it empowers them to do whatever it is they want, and to me anyways, self-reliance is #1. That confidence is #1. And that comes from trying no matter what. Screw failing.

I admire those who create wealth, honestly. How Can I Not? You become something by doing. That's what it makes you. To be a marine, you go through a process, a mental process. A shift. It requires the same of being a DJ or PUA, of being wealthy.

Heck, of being a Husband, A Father, an Owner, a Dog-Owner etc...

We do not know why we do what we do all the time. A core, basic, need does exist...but there isn't a precise science that I can hand to you...

What do I desire? My desires come from my childhood...because my family worked so much, I rarely vacationed, rarely went to sporting events (but played them), so in experiencing a different life, I work to get what I didn't have then. Others might work for something else.

I know a guy who has no father and an alcoholic mother. In effect, he has no family, so he sought his "sales" family to accept him, and he's done well, selling himself to an income of 250k. Doing so ingratiated him into a sales organization and made him 1 of the top salesguy @ the age of 25. He was motivated to have a family, have acceptance. It just so happened this was matched up with sales and his passion.

We are emotional beings, using logic to explain our decisions.



A-Unit

 

[DoubleJuan]

Originally posted by Visceral
Do people really want to strive for things? I admit that I often question its value; life is so comfortable and easy, why would I go out of my way to make it hard and uncomfortable? Unless it were required to maintain the status quo, of course.

I'd say most of us have lost our appetite for effort and suffering. The fact that they can be avoided has eliminated any need to romanticize or ennoble them.

Perhaps we're the victims of our own success. If action is predicated on an unfulfilled need, then what happens when your needs are met and have always been met? I think this is why I used the word "want", to indicate that the thing is not necessary, that it is only because it is possible that one would wish to do it.

There's probably a difference between real needs and perceived needs. The first category covers survival, comfort, etc. The second is what I think A-Unit is talking about. These needs are created by external forces - ads, peer pressure, etc. - but can be just as powerful.

No, you are only partly right. It is not that people have all their needs met so they can be lazy and comfortable, it is that most people dont even realize their inner needs cause they are buried so deep because of society. visceral when all are your needs are met then my question is why are you searchin on this forum for answers?could it be that not everything is so comfortable and fun as you say it?

it is that society and companies makes people believe that their needs are met by substituting the real needs with some short term solutions that make them money. guy1 plays world of warcraft all the time=need to strive for something better all the time, to be someone powerful and respected is met while he plays it. companies make money out of his need, he goes out in reallife and realizes that his life only stayed the same or has gotten even worse.

guy2 has the same needs...but he throws the WoW dvd away and joins a gym and takes up martial arts. every month he can see how his life became more fun and he has gotten happier with himself.......but no this guy has only an inferiority complex.....how fvcked up is this sh1t? in former times the strong skillful knight was admired but nowadays men like this have an inferiority complex.......what has this world come to? better stop the fvcking psychoanalysing

but A-unit put it right with "Normally we must sink LOW to develop NEED, or identify NEEDs in our life." or as napoleon hill said every failure/misery gives the opportunity to turn it around and get an even bigger success out it then the misery was....now i understand it better what it means that failures leads to success.

an easier way would be to have a mentor from early childhood.....that the right thinking habbits get integrained automatically without having to go through all that pain. of course even with a good mentor you would still have to make failures....but you would have someone who encourages you and who shows you how to make the best out of it.

the sad thing is that nobody explains to the people what there real needs are....and THAT it is completely doable to achieve them by leveling up like in a computer game.

 

[r_j_goebel]

great thread