You have to move fast with women

[Gamisch]

You will never see a girl like this with a very average guy, unless money is involved.

This is a 10? The absolute perfect specimen? The ultimate woman?

Nah man. This is the first problem with statements like this. I haven't watched porn in like...4 months but even now she cant get me hard HARD (boner test failed). Would i feck her gun- on -my- head- forced? Ofcourse. I fecked less than this. But also better!

She's too skinny, mediocre pretty and bang average. I see women like this with normal guys every day..Just my opinion.

Always be escalating and closing.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

She must also be receptive to the escalation.

Thats why i say sexual discipline is ao important.

You wanna be more disciplined than she is. The battle of abstaining should be in your favor. Most men cant pull this off, so it makes you unique by defeault . Doesn't mean it will ALWAYS work in your favor, because for all you know she has 10 men lined up and she wants the one who makes her p00sy tingles the most. It takes a lotta experience to make her p00sy itch without touching her, but IF you do you got her in a "mental rear naked choke" she won't just get out of!

Warning!! You MIGHT lose a few women while practicing and perfecting this strategy/course of action!

Unless YOU as a man decide to :
1.-either play along with her game of being this"good girl " and you actually GIVE her the gift of 3 dates before sex .

2. Logistically it is difficult due to her period, location and time limitations ect.

1 means she's probably stating this over and over again and you can calll her bluff at any time. I am dealing with one like this and i like it for a change. Yet NO WOMAN will ever fool me into believing she wont sleep with me if I create the perfect circumstances (e.g making out on a bed, with lets say lowered inhibitions due to alcohol).

2. It simply can't be done . Cool .still ,if you as a man tell her you need sex ir you'll move...she might give it up qhen she sees you as a top tier man. This is how women end up bitter, they'll give it up only to get played like useal!

 

[Clockwerk50]

Yea agreed

In my experiences a female doesn't mind the pace you go at as long as you are going in the right direction and making her pu$$y tingle

This. According to the Art of Seduction, there is a section that says something like that. Maybe you were so fixated in having a kiss that you were not going with the flow. Maybe you were so much in your head about by these thoughts that you were not thinking about her needs and wants; reading her signals. Maybe you could have play your interaction with her perfectly but she was just stringing you along. Who knows.

There is also the spanish saying "don't warm up your food if you are not going to eat it", and in my experience, there has been times where I didn't pull the trigger but then the next guy did and was able to enjoy all the fun. I don't think this situation was like this, like she would just go hook up with the next guy due to all of your effort, but it is something that needs to be analyzed if it was the case.

"There is nothing more anti-seductive than feeling that someone has assumed that you are theirs, that you cannot possibly resist them. The slightest appearance of this kind of conceit is deadly to seduction; you must prove yourself, take your time, win your target's heart. Perhaps you fear that he or she will be offended by a slower pace, or will lose interest. It is more likely, however, that your fear reflects your own insecurity, and insecurity is always anti-seductive. In truth, the longer you take, the more you show the depth of your interest, and the deeper the spell you create.In a world of few formalities and ceremony, seduction is one of the few remnants from the past that retains the ancient patterns. It is a ritual, and its rites must be observed.

Haste reveals not the depth of your feelings but the degree of your self-absorption. It may be possible sometimes to hurry someone into love, but you will only be repaid by the lack of pleasure this kind of love affords. If you are naturally impetuous, do what you can to disguise it. Strangely enough, the effort you spend on holding yourself back may be read by your target as deeply seductive."

 

[BadBoy89]

I love how Sosuave assumes virgins are innocent and wife material, while non-virgins are floozies and not wife material.

Keep the fairly tale alive.

 

[BeExcellent]

So basically you are saying that you as a woman if the guy did not at least kiss you by the time the 2nd date ended, you would not think that he does not like you or think that he is weird for not at least tried to do it? Or something along these lines?

And if so, how many dates it will take you to reach that point? ( excluding that most likely other guys might invite you over to dates )

***Assuming you are American or Western European***

Let me explain why you struggle @Bigpapa. You are failing to read the women properly. You are going along equipped with what YOU want, but seduction is about what SHE wants. That will vary from woman to woman; the expected timeline will also vary.

The fact that you are asking me for a formulaic, one size fits all answer indicates that you are tone deaf.

Accomplished seducers (including myself) understand how to pay close attention to the target and ascertain what it is the other person needs. Much of this is non verbal communication. It is also a value equation. The higher value the person you are dealing with the higher likelihood they EXPECT compliance with their agenda, whatever that is. For example I expect a man to invest and show interest whilst respecting my boundaries. However the value equation might dictate variance. For example I could tell with my now husband that he was used to easily obtaining sex, since he is quite attractive. Therefore I allowed him the sexual conquest relatively early on although he did demonstrate significant investment in me (time, money, thoughtfulness). I did not want him to perceive me as impossible to obtain, and I paid attention to what his timeline needed.

What’s funny is he’s quite proud of both his effort and his success in that regard. He’s quite cute over it. But had I not paid careful attention to his needs I would not have connected with him so strongly; he would not have felt so understood.

People fall in love with how they feel around you. How being in your presence makes them feel. If you learn how to make women feel good about being with you, they feel good ABOUT you.

Seduction 101 gentlemen.

 

[Bigpapa]

Let me explain why you struggle @Bigpapa. You are failing to read the women properly. You are going along equipped with what YOU want, but seduction is about what SHE wants. That will vary from woman to woman; the expected timeline will also vary.

The fact that you are asking me for a formulaic, one size fits all answer indicates that you are tone deaf.

Accomplished seducers (including myself) understand how to pay close attention to the target and ascertain what it is the other person needs. Much of this is non verbal communication. It is also a value equation. The higher value the person you are dealing with the higher likelihood they EXPECT compliance with their agenda, whatever that is. For example I expect a man to invest and show interest whilst respecting my boundaries. However the value equation might dictate variance. For example I could tell with my now husband that he was used to easily obtaining sex, since he is quite attractive. Therefore I allowed him the sexual conquest relatively early on although he did demonstrate significant investment in me (time, money, thoughtfulness). I did not want him to perceive me as impossible to obtain, and I paid attention to what his timeline needed.

What’s funny is he’s quite proud of both his effort and his success in that regard. He’s quite cute over it. But had I not paid careful attention to his needs I would not have connected with him so strongly; he would not have felt so understood.

People fall in love with how they feel around you. How being in your presence makes them feel. If you learn how to make women feel good about being with you, they feel good ABOUT you.

Seduction 101 gentlemen.

Look, no offense but you dodge things which leads me to the idea that you talk for the sake of talking

And the formulaic question was to pinpoint that you talk for the sake of talking in your initial post

Thank you for your thoughts and that you have taken the time to write 2 long posts but I know that water is wet. Actually you just proved my point that you have to move fast if she likes you because “ it is not about what you want, but about what she wants”

And since you have no idea if she really likes you from the get go or not, better to assume that she is attracted ( otherwise you will start overthinking and most likely miss a lot of opportunities )

 

[BeExcellent]

Look, no offense but you dodge things which leads me to the idea that you talk for the sake of talking

And the formulaic question was to pinpoint that you talk for the sake of talking in your initial post

Thank you for your thoughts and that you have taken the time to write 2 long posts but I know that water is wet. Actually you just proved my point that you have to move fast if she likes you because “ it is not about what you want, but about what she wants”

And since you have no idea if she really likes you from the get go or not, better to assume that she is attracted ( otherwise you will start overthinking and most likely miss a lot of opportunities )

No I honestly answered your question. You and others here miss the nuance in interpersonal communication to your disadvantage.

Asking me a formulaic question as a trap is silly and obviously so.

I take time to explain my point of view to help guys understand that things are not binary.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I love how Sosuave assumes virgins are innocent and wife material, while non-virgins are floozies and not wife material.

Keep the fairly tale alive.

"Not all virgin girls are healthy. But all healthy girls are virgins (/low body count)"

Not the exact words but Im quoting @pipeman84

@Pandora met a few virgins and like two thirds of them were a headache and a pain to deal with; not wife material for sure.

 

[Bigpapa]

No I honestly answered your question. You and others here miss the nuance in interpersonal communication to your disadvantage.

Asking me a formulaic question as a trap is silly and obviously so.

I take time to explain my point of view to help guys understand that things are not binary.

Sorry but your posts in general are just cheap philosophy that maybe remotely touch whatever subject is discussed

I asked you a very punctual question, which even after 2-3 posts you do did not answered and instead you try to reframe it as I am autistic

The thing with your posts is that you brag about how amazing a person you are ( have no idea why you someone that is so amazing has to parrot this all the time ) , and instead of actually trying to be helpful you just feel a thrill on pouring salt on the wound or try to make the other persons even more dizzy

I do not mind that you are a woman and I also understand that you are human and have your good and bad days. But if you do not bring any value to the discussion it is better to stay on the bench till you will have something relevant/good to say. There are enough trolls here already

 

[BeExcellent]

I’m not asking your permission nor do I defer to you. I’m not the only poster who took time and made a long response here either, but I see no criticism of them. That’s fine, an observation.

Use your Ignore button if you like.

So basically you are saying that you as a woman if the guy did not at least kiss you by the time the 2nd date ended, you would not think that he does not like you or think that he is weird for not at least tried to do it? Or something along these lines?

And if so, how many dates it will take you to reach that point? ( excluding that most likely other guys might invite you over to dates )

***Assuming you are American or Western European***

The answer to your question is:

It depends. JESUS.

My other posts explain WHY it depends. If you are this obtuse on dates you are running women off, trust me.

 

[RickTheToad]

When this toad was playing in the pond, if she passed the d!ck test, I'd always go for a kiss. If I didn't know or wasn't attractive, I'd give a hug and re-evaluate. If I didn't at least get my d!ck sucked and get her completely naked by the 3rd date; she was history. Three date rule is important. If she makes you wait and you have to masturbate to ejaculate; then it's too late.

It should be much easier now. I hear females are giving hummers after the first date. One just has to be careful of STIs and STDs.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Accomplished seducers (including myself)

Sorry, but I LOL'ed hard at this gem. You consider yourself a successful seducer??

Seduction for women is what childbirth is for men. Yes, you need both a man and woman to make it happen, but the amount of effort required from each party is slightly different . As a woman, all you need to do to be a "successful seducer" is a) not be a b!tch and b) say "yes". Not exactly rocket science.

The only time a woman can truly be considered a successful seducer is if she lands a man who is way (and I mean WAY) out of her league.

 

[SW15]

The only time a woman can truly be considered a successful seducer is if she lands a man who is way (and I mean WAY) out of her league.

That would also have to be a commitment. Women who are in the 5-6.5 league routinely have sex with men who are 8.5+. They might even get into some sort of situationship that extends for a decent amount of time, but they rarely ever get exclusivity and commitment. A man who is an 8.5+ will commit to a woman, but she's going to need to be at least an 8.

 

[BeExcellent]

Sorry, but I LOL'ed hard at this gem. You consider yourself a successful seducer??

Seduction for women is what childbirth is for men. Yes, you need both a man and woman to make it happen, but the amount of effort required from each party is slightly different . As a woman, all you need to do to be a "successful seducer" is a) not be a b!tch and b) say "yes". Not exactly rocket science.

The only time a woman can truly be considered a successful seducer is if she lands a man who is way (and I mean WAY) out of her league.

Nope. It means you know how to attract the guy you want and progress things to LTR or marriage.

It means as a woman you know how to be his best most desirable option, you know how to make him feel, it’s not a happy accident. You get exclusive commitment from a high value man by being a woman he can’t replace, and that he feels great to be around.

And of course being objectively hot is a given.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Quick question though, have you ever passed the 2 dates with not even a kiss and managed to see the girl the 3rd time? And if yes, it is something that happens often or it is more an against the odds thing?

Nope, I would pretty much always make out on the first date. That's the idea of the date, to see if you're compatible.

I'll tell you, one time I met this chick for the first time, we went back to my place and just like we sexted about, I tied her up and had her squealing with joy, a day later she texted me "Hey, I feel like some of the things that happened yesterday were not OK" and I just about crapped myself, thinking how precarious of a situation this actually was, tying up a chick on first meet was liability wise a terrible idea.

What does this story have to do with smoking weed? Or did you two smoke weed but you forgot to mention it?
As it goes for tying up, you sexted about it and she was enthusiastic I assume, but you did you take her through the rules for consent and boundaries and safe words before you tied her up?

keeping womens attention and holding it. We need to think like persuasion experts and social media scientists.

You think?

Accomplished seducers (including myself) understand how to pay close attention to the target and ascertain what it is the other person needs. Much of this is non verbal communication.

And give the target what they need, not what they want.

 

[MtmVaott]

Actually gold what you added. Did not thought about going like this at all

Genius !

Did this a couple of times in the past and it went good. But here it just did not came to mind a move like this at all, felt the time pressure really deep which made me freeze

But I agree, it takes a lot of courage to do something like you mentioned. It is the ultimate Hail Mary ( but with style ). Only if I could go back in time

So you actually have done something like that after you haven't escalated? I really have doubts if this will not kill all the sexual tension...

What is a Hail Mary?

 

[Bigpapa]

So you actually have done something like that after you haven't escalated? I really have doubts if this will not kill all the sexual tension...

What is a Hail Mary?

Yes, I did this once or twice if I remember correctly

Once it was with a girl that I could not pull to my place a couple of times before so I tell her something like “ look, I am flying tomorrow and bad things could happen, and I would really like to have a last drink with you at my place in case something happens because I really think you are cool . Would regret for sure if I would not have told you this” . Something along this line

The 2nd time was also something similar to this

Both times it worked, and the girls were like “ ohh…that is actually sweet”

And it is a Hail Mary because if you are shut down, you can not really recover from it. So it is should be used only as a last resort, when basically you can not really say or do anything and you are against the odds

 

[MtmVaott]

From what I have seen in most cases the “friendzone” happened because the guy did not escalate when they had the opportunity , not because the woman actually thought that he will make a good friend . Most women do not believe that guys and girls can be platonic friends. They are realistic ( guys are way more idealistic in general )

When the guy does not escalate when he has the opportunity women will become bitter and think that you rejected them so they reject you before you reject them as a way to save face

I agree with the rest

This is true because when you don't escalate, you don't only not escalate.
You are also scared and don't show affection / sexual interest anymore.
To her, it's like if you lost interest.
Then they leave disappointed and sad.
Or she understands you are scared and rejects you, that's possible, too.

 

[MtmVaott]

Yes, I did this once or twice if I remember correctly

Once it was with a girl that I could not pull to my place a couple of times before so I tell her something like “ look, I am flying tomorrow and bad things could happen, and I would really like to have a last drink with you at my place in case something happens because I really think you are cool . Would regret for sure if I would not have told you this” . Something along this line

The 2nd time was also something similar to this

Both times it worked, and the girls were like “ ohh…that is actually sweet”

And it is a Hail Mary because if you are shut down, you can not really recover from it. So it is should be used only as a last resort, when basically you can not really say or do anything and you are against the odds

Ok so you were saying between the lines that you really like her, that's why you'd regret it, and you suggest her to go to your place because of it.
I had positive reactions to similar lines as well.
I don't think it is comparable though to what I proposed since my proposition was to say you fvcked up and were insecure, which is unattractive to women. So maybe all it would have done would have been to get real between you and her and then be able to move on with a clear head and good mood.

Haha I see.

 

[MtmVaott]

@nastyavitsop on instagram
A 7? She is nothing less than a 10.

I have a list of 10s I can send you if you're interested.

5. Not my type

 

[Bigpapa]

Ok so you were saying between the lines that you really like her, that's why you'd regret it, and you suggest her to go to your place because of it.
I had positive reactions to similar lines as well.
I don't think it is comparable though to what I proposed since my proposition was to say you fvcked up and were insecure, which is unattractive to women. So maybe all it would have done would have been to get real between you and her and then be able to move on with a clear head and good mood.

Haha I see.

I do not think that it would be perceived like that, unless she was not attracted to you and she would “ yew… get away”

I think that on the contrary it would have showed modesty/generosity and self reflection + leadership ( sexy qualities )

You realized that you f8cked up ( self reflection )

You did not tried to bullsh1t around ( modesty/generosity )

You tried to fix things on the spot without really caring if it makes you look bad or that you felt uncomfortable ( leadership )