You Guys Need A Wakeup Call

[zekko]

Ever since I started treated women as equal and recognizing their faults (ex: bad behavior, slut-tee-ness, shi*ty attitudes, entitlement, etc.) I have scored more lays and have been better with women because I call them on their sh*t and upped my self-respect.

Seeing yourself as an equal (or better yet, a superior) to a woman, not pedestalizing them, and allowing yourself to see their faults as real people, and having self respect, these are all good things, not sociopathic.

I don't understand how people around here think that unless you are bowing and scraping to a woman and accepting her as your superior, and putting her on a pedestal, then that makes you some sort of @sshole. Seriously, where do they teach this stuff?

 

[Mr_Stinky]

As Skyy intimated, men need to be snapped the hell out of the NAWALT philosophy and be made aware of the cruelest possibilities so they can be better prepared to handle them.

I'm afraid to say, YOU need the wakeup call.

Exactly. "Prepare for the worst... Hope for the best" should be a DJ mindset

 

[PlayHer Man]

Zekko,

Again I re-iterate, to the NICE GUY, acting anything but nice IS sociopathic.

Not responding to a text question, is sociopathic to a nice guy.
Not complimenting women, is sociopathic to a nice guy.
Saying anything even remotely insulting to a woman, is sociopathic to a nice guy.
Expressing sexuality is sociopathic to a nice guy.

All behaviors have meanings that are relatively different from the perspective of other people.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Danger Again"

This is GOLD. Great posting Danger. You're owning in this thread. These White Knights are looking more ignorant and misguided with every response.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Well... Yet another sosuave thread that is now next to useless....

"A cluster-fvck of ego's, insults, and tribal anarchy... "

That's what sosuave's tag line should be.

 

[TheException]

Why do you defend women who treat men like crap and blame the man? You say its not the woman's fault.. its "biology". Your exact words


You do realize this is the equivalent of women "shaming" men for not liking fat chicks right? Men's biology is wired to mate with the most attractive female possible and female's biology is to mate with best value male.

Women treat beta like crap = Men treating fat women like crap

I dont complain about either because I am not a hypocrite. Women do sh1tty things to low value males...and we do sh1tty things like not give attention to fat women. That is why i dont resent women...the same way women shouldnt be shaming men for being so shallow and looks oriented.

Recognizing what women respond to does not make one poor with women, but actually makes them good with women. It appears as though you are attempting to reverse them in your desire to discredit the idea of game altogether.

Danger.....ill try one last time. I am not advocating for the ABSENCE OF A$$HOLE game. Certain tactics that are considered "a$$hole" absolutely work. Im talking attitudes towards women....think inner game vs outer game.

A$$hole tactics = Outer Game
Resentment towards women = inner game

I advocate for the change in "inner game" (attitude towards women) to change....NOT what is effective a$$hole game.

They would get laid FAR more than the supplicating Beta, and that's the point.


No doubt....but an alpha male gets laid more than a true a$$hole. Think James Bond, Clooney, Pitt, etc....do you think they view women like PlayHerMan does?

As far as viewing women positively or negatively. Does it have to be either? Why is it negative to view women as responding positively to douchebags versus nice guys?

You dont acknowledge the 3rd category of "Alpha Male"...im talking true ALPHA. You want to keep contrasting beta nice guy vs a$$hole and look pal, im right there with you. Its no contest. But there truly is a 3rd category that Zekko and I keep referring to. Just as you say there is no black and white....its not just nice guy or a$$hole. The alpha male is beyond both of them and should be our goal....dont just stop at a$$hole. Keep moving forward...

 

[PlayHer Man]

Why do you defend women who treat men like crap and blame the man? You say its not the woman's fault.. its "biology". Your exact words


You do realize this is the equivalent of women "shaming" men for not liking fat chicks right? Men's biology is wired to mate with the most attractive female possible and female's biology is to mate with best value male.

Women treat beta like crap = Men treating fat women like crap

I dont complain about either because I am not a hypocrite. Women do sh1tty things to low value males...and we do sh1tty things like not give attention to fat women. That is why i dont resent women...the same way women shouldnt be shaming men for being so shallow and looks oriented.

If you "don't care either way" as you claim.. then why did you make this thread bro? And why are you so "disgusted" with my Sociopath thread and the idea of some men treating women like crap?

If treating fat women like crap is ok.. then treating ALL women like crap is ok too by your logic.

Make up your mind bro. :crackup: :crackup:

 

[TheException]

Ok, this makes MUCH more sense than what you started with. Two important points.

Ive been attempting to say the same thing all along. Blame it on misunderstanding or just not seeing eye to eye or perhaps i was now able to say it more efficiently.

How areyou going to differentiate bad attitude versus @sshole tactics?

To a woman...i guess you can say it will be a very subtle difference. From the guys perspective, its everything. Remember when you were a beta and you viewed the world a certain way? Then you changed, and saw relationships/women for how they truly are? The change from a$$hole to alpha is similar. Its a perspective change...its a mentality not tactical. Its not even really complicated. You just learn to view women for what they are...not influenced from past transgressions, resentment from getting burnt by a woman, not p1ssed at sh1tty attitude...essentially you begin to view them as POTENTIAL POSITIVES to your life. There are women out there who:
-Will be faithful
-Will support you, in your attempt to reach your goals
-Gives you sex(hopefully amazing) whenever you want
-Are legit fun to be around

And the girls that are b1tches or have sh1tty attitudes? Laugh...then next them....not hate them or blanket all other women as sh1tty because of her. Thats why we SCREEN. See the individual for who they are. Also one last point on this.....both attraction and rapport is necessary. Dont forget the downfall of the a$$hole: He can get women...but never keep them. The occasional show of appreciation is necessary. CH had a good post on this a little bit ago.

What is your purpose in doing so if they are already getting women? What is the point if they are already succeeding with women?

I believe its healthier. Going through life with a positive attitude vs negative. And i mean if you dont want a meaningful relationship with a woman someday thats fine....but a lot of men do. Thats why with this thread i think its important I differenciated the two. PlayHerMan telling guys treat her like sh1t is not going to help the average guy who comes here, looking for a girlfriend or just to keep a girl attracted to them for more than a few months.

Pitt is a Beta with status and looks.

I disagree. And to clarify i mean his movie character(Ocean's Series, Fight Club, etc)...i dont watch TMZ or read gossip mags so i couldnt tell ya about him outside of the movie realm lol.

Bond doesn't exist

Neither does Don Juan. Still...great references of alpha males.

 

[MaddXMan]

Actually he was always out socializing in the late 1920s/early 1930s and known as a ladies' man. But people like to throw around stuff like that, and leftists never have to show any sources for what they say. Especially not when it comes to something they say about Hitler, of course. In this I recognize the same kind of sloppiness that I see in feminist accusations against men, a disregard for facts that causes a lot of strife. The hostility against women in general that we see among many in this forum comes from that carelessness with facts in no small regard. That is why you should be careful with facts and check your accusations no matter who you are talking about or what the subject is. Sloppiness will just lead to more sloppiness.

I wasn't going to respond since it would be derailing the thread, but since the thread is off the rails anyway **** it.

I notice you don't give any souces or citations yourself, and somehow come to conclusion I am a leftist and/or feminist. Wtf? Where did that come from?

I don't have to show sources since reading anything, anywhere on Hitler's life would tell you that he was shy and straightlaced. He appreciated pretty women and would request to be introduced to actresses or singers he was attracted to. But he would always treat them very properly and formally - he was a head of state after all.

The Nazis loved to gossip. They used gossip to get ahead, to know the weaknesses of their counterparts. There was never any gossip that Hitler was out banging broads night and day. Rather there were jokes about him having a deformity like one testicle.

He only readily bonded with women much older than him or much younger than him. A few much older women among his staff and household were the only ones he felt comfortable enough with to allow him to be addressed in the familiar German Du. He was pen pals with young German schoolgirls who he felt epitomized the feminie German ideal.

But with women his own age, he was shy to a fault. Wrote out madly flourishing love letters. Fell to his knees declaring his love to another (in his Vienna days). Real afc stuff.

The ladie's man mystique came from the fact that the women adored him as their head of state. And he used this - said he would not get married while in power because he was in essence married to the German state, and state came first. He knew well that that aloof dedicated father figure images drove them wild.

In the end Hitler's love life cannot be categorized as alpha/beta or whatever label you are looking for. It was chaos. I mean, he very well may have been banging his niece and drove her to suicide. Does this sound like a "bad boy don juan" or someone just seriously disturbed?

 

[zekko]

Nothing you say disagrees with my post at all. One thing we can't forget, is that the question the nice guy always asks inn desperate frustration is WHY IS SHE DATING SUCH @SSHOLES? He sees that behavior as being an @sshole. To those of us who are initiated, utilizing negs and game techniques isn't necessarily being an @sshole, but to the nice guy, it is being an @sshole.

I've always thought that was mainly due to a case of jealousy. The nice guy is p!ssed that the guy got his girl, so he says "That @sshole took my girl". It doesn't really have that much to do with whether or not the guy is an @ss or not.

Similarly, when a DJ loses a girl, he always says "That AFC stole my girl!".
Lol.

Anyway, I think most of our disagreement is in how to put things - what words should be used to say what.

 

[Sandow]

Ok I'll make this quick. I agree with both The Exception and Plaherman and Danger.

I used to be as beta as you can get, I resented women, I despised them, fvck I genuinely HATED women. I was a complete azzhole and treated women like dirt, and of course I was pretty damn successful. So that being said, Plaherman viewpoint is spot on, I couldn't agree with him more. It's a sad truth, but you know what this isn't fckin disneyland.

However, my inner game has changed and went from negative to positive. And not just in picking up girls, but in all aspects in life. Do I still believe women are evil, conniving, venomous creatures? Absolutely. But I no longer view this in a negative or resentful way. Instead, I just accept it as it is and place absolutely zero emotion to it. My view is no longer from a negative one, but from a positive/optimistic one. I can't afford to live in a hateful viewpoint anymore. It was wearing me down.

Listen, everything playherman says is absolutely correct and the advice is gold. You just can't allow women to control your temperament and how you feel. The only person that can do that is YOU. Do girls suck? Fvck ya. Are they shady as fvck and only look out for themselves? Of course. But you know what, thats just how it is. So you can either cry and complain about it all you want…or you can accept it, move on, and accept the game.

My outer game is still the same. And even though I treat girls like dirt, I've accepted that this is how nature works. I'm going to get burned, yea. And so is she. But you know what, that's just how it is, therefore why would you let this affect you? Again, nobody can determine your mindset, only you can. Your only option is to view everything in a positive light. Adopt this mentality and I guarantee you will notice an immediate difference.

 

[Die Hard]

The thing that annnoys me the most about SoSuave, or at least the general forum section of it, is the fact that people keep re-inventing the wheel time and time again.

All of this discussion has been done and dealt with before... Not once, not twice, but MANY, MANY times in the history of this forum. Yet, those concerning threads have simply been bumped down to page 200 or something in the thread list, which nobody reads, so members keep having to go through the same stupid discussions over and over again, even though others have already paved the way for them many times before...

With the recent addition of admins, I strongly suggest the admin team to look for such crucial threads and sticky them. On most "scientific" discussion forums, admins even close threads that discuss topics which have been discussed earlier and put up a link to the earlier threads. I really wish we could be a little more like that on SoSuave and try to preserve the vast knowledge base that has been created on here in the last 10 years or so, instead of people having to "discover" facts and draw conclusions, which other members have already done for them in past threads.

As a community, we do a REALLY sh!tty job at preserving our shared knowledge here on SoSuave.

This is the only true wake up call that guys on here need! I spend more time wandering through years old threads than reading the daily discussions on here and I can assure you I gain much more wisdom from that... All these ideas that people are expressing here everyday, have been expressed before by others, only BETTER!

Do a fvcking search for the words "nice guy jerk" and you'll find 22 threads discussing the same topic that is being discussed in the current thread, dating back as far as 2001... (thankfully, at least some of those threads have been put in the 'archive' section or the 'tips' section). Now shut your goddamn mouths and read those threads. If you still have questions or something new to add regarding what has been said there, ONLY THEN can you open your mouths again.

For fvck sake, people....

 

[zekko]

There is clearly a generation gap here that is causing confusion.

Maybe I should shut up and let you younguns talk amongst yourself.

I know things have gotten worse with regard to male/female relations in recent years. But guys were saying all the same things when I was growing up. "Nice Guys Finish Last". "Why do girls go for the jerks?". I've always thought these complaints were largely sour grapes.

On most "scientific" discussion forums, admins even close threads that discuss topics which have been discussed earlier and put up a link to the earlier threads

Ugh, I hate forums like that. That's over-moderation IMO. You get into a good discussion and then the thread disappears because there was a discussion of the same topic five years ago. And no one wants to read a 200 page thread.

Some forums ban certain topics because they get talked to death. But I figure the reason they are hot button issues is because people want to talk about them. It's like the weather.

I agree there could be better preservation of SoSuave knowledge, even though it all boils down to just being a bunch of opinions. Maybe there should be a DJ Bible II.

 

[The Shoe]

"You have to be a BORDERLINE sociopath to get RESPECT from women."

Any beta faggot can get a woman. Sex is one of the easiest things in the world to get. But if you want the hotties.. and you want those hotties to treat you well.. then YES you have to be a douche on some level.

Reality is not always pretty. Men on this site can either accept that real life relationships don't play out like a Disney movie romance.. or they can keep living in a bubble. Ignoring reality has no baring on reality.

I think you are confusing "borderline sociopathy" with confident assertiveness. This "conquest" mentality, while it plays nice to your ego, is not as effective as a more artistic mindset. (Is the term not "pick-up artist"?) I've never had to be a "borderline sociopathy" to get respect. Sure, I am not going to cave into banal platitudes when talking to beautiful women, but talk to them like any other human being with confidence and assertiveness. And I get results. Women (like men) like to be led. Lead them.

Different mindset. Better results without pretending to be something you aren't.

 

[The Shoe]

Ever since I started treated women as equal and recognizing their faults (ex: bad behavior, slut-tee-ness, shi*ty attitudes, entitlement, etc.) I have scored more lays and have been better with women because I call them on their sh*t and upped my self-respect.

Exactly. Women are not robots, they should should be drawn to you. Tricks to get around defenses are nice and all, but any DJ that knows his craft will draw women to him like ants to a picnic.

It's been said several times in this thread that the good seducers don't need to come here. I lurked for over ten years before getting an account.(for entertainment -- the "you can't get laid unless your sheet thread count is over 300" discussion was pure comedy gold!) Recently some female friends noticed that women were constantly approaching me -- and I sought to understand why so that I could help my less successful friends. I got an account here to see if I could figure out why.

Sadly I don't come here often because much of what I hear is complaining about women and weird (sometimes hilarious) formulas to trick them into sleeping with you. Basically when I ask women what attracts them to this obese bald man, they say confidence, intelligence, a sense of adventure, etc. I do not put them on a pedestal, or tear them down. I still have not found what it is, but I'll keep happily riding the wave.

 

[zekko]

[*]When I was a kid up to 4th grade, for whatever reason I was popular. No idea why.
[*]Suddenly in 5th-8th grade, it changed. My eyesight had worsened and I got glasses which is the only thing I can attribute to it. Girls ignored me almost completely, except for the few who knew me beyond glasses. I may have had glasses, but I still had a confrontational attitude.
[*]When I hit 11th grade, things changed back in the other direction. I didn't tolerate $hit, from anyone. Student, teacher, football jock, it didn't matter. If you started $hit, I finished it. The pu$$y started flowing.
[*]When I graduated HS and went into college. I had many girls after me but didn't want to date any of them. I finally got tired of pushing them off and agreed to date one in particular. It didn't take long before she doled out the sex intermittently. While I didn't tolerate $hit from people, for some reason I had this view that at the time that I shouldn't push her for sex if she said no. To be succinct, I had attitude and game to attract women, but I was weak once I had a woman.

I don't consider not tolerating sh!t from people to be jerk behavior. That is masculine behavior, manly behavior. I remember in my psychology class, we were taught that confrontation is good. I don't why people think that you have to be a jerk in order to not be a doormat.

Similarly, you admit you were weak once you had a woman. I have never espoused being weak, men should be strong - mentally, physically, emotionally. You had a right to demand sex from your girlfriend if that's what you wanted. I don't mean that you should have raped her, but if she wasn't meeting your needs there was no reason to keep her around. The question is why having a girlfriend made you weak?

It's clear that a good deal of what you (and the community) considers jerk behavior, I consider simply being masculine. I've pointed this out in numerous threads where guys list jerk traits - but there are no negative traits listed. It's always just a list of positive behaviors: Confident, goes after what he wants, doesn't take sh!t from people, doesn't supplicate to women. How does any of that make you a jerk? It only does in the mind of an AFC, or a PUA apparently.

 

[TheException]

You miss my question though, and went right into your interpretation.

Thought you meant how to tell the difference from the guy's perspective not the observer...

To that point, its a little tough. And just to clarify...just because i dont advocate a sh1tty attitude towards women(ill address that point later in this reply) doesnt mean IM GOING TO POLICE THE MANOSPHERE for it lol. My purpose of the post...although now i see people have misinterpreted it to ONLY being a bashing thread....was to show a 3rd category(alpha male) beyond jerk vs nice guy. And alpha male definitely does not = jerk or vice versa. Now...how to tell the difference between a guy spitting god like game and a guy being a true a$$hole to women? Sure i think there are certain characteristics that would differentiate to two(Ill list em)....but for the record....who cares? Im honestly not walking around the world looking to eradicate all the people who hate women and try to "convert them". If someone would read this thread and say "hmmm maybe theres a discussion to be had about hating women. Some guys here definitely do" or "Hmmm i view women as b1tches...but exception makes some sense...maybe they are not evil as i think"...then fine. I was trying to illuminate the 3rd category of men, because sometimes people get hung up on being a jerk so much...they literally become one, in the true sense of the word....and that jerk is beta. No doubt.

Instead, I want to know what you consider different in your list here that you provided.....meaning, how are you going to differentiate the items below from being a bad attitude, versus being a fact.

Now I'm 28 and treat women like they are replaceable toys (which they are).
You have to treat them all like wh0res
I agree with being a dyck and treating all women like wh0res until they prove otherwise
Women are opportunistic sheep
Having less testosterone than men makes them more risk averse and chicken-sh!t in general.
Any man concerned about "pleasing" a woman sexually is already in full blown beta faggot territory. Sex is for the man.
There is no reason for a man to EVER worry about being "good in bed". The sex is for YOU not her.
A man in love is a slave. Completely ruled by his woman.
The hotter the girl, the more of a c*nt she usually is
Most modern women are low quality c*m-dumpsters
But that vast majority of modern women are only good for sex and nothing more.
If a lot of modern women didn't have such crappy personalities and values..
I just see women as toys
All was well when men slapped women around and kept them in the kitchen making grilled cheese sandwiches.
Did they return the favor? NOPE. They became stuck up materialistic c*nts / prostitutes.
women know they are out to destroy men...yet men still blindly want to stick their pee pees into them

Id say they all are bad attitude examples. I dont hold the view of any of the above. I dont see ALL women as wh0res or see the need to treat them ALL like one. Im not claiming the people who make these statements cannot get laid....but i am saying they resent women, or in the very least, view them as an overall negative with a vagina. Theres no way you TRULY believe these things...and not view women in a negative way. To flip the script...think of the feminist. Always saying sh1t statements about men and the inequality blah blah blah. SHE VIEWS MEN, THE WAY THE MEN WHO MAKE THE ABOVE STATEMENTS VIEW WOMEN. Now to some men...thats fine. But im more of a "middle ground leaning male". So im PRO MALE not ANTI FEMALE.

Danger i like the fact you willing to have a discussion and are seeking for me to "clear up" my assertions. Ill tell ya what...ill make a thread on it soon with very precise details and evidence etc. Usually when im on here, i only have a few minutes to write up a response and looking back, never articulate my responses the best i can or how i completely want to.

Bottom line: From my perspective and experience(success) from the world...i dont need to have the attitude that PlayHerMan and yourself have. Sure we do some similar things...like handle sh1tty attitude the same, a$$hole game, etc but at the end of the day, my attitude is EVERYTHING. Attitude towards school....career...hobbies...sports....and women. And its through a Realist lense....i see things for how they are. What works...what doesnt work....but i dont attach things like full blown negativity to ALL sh1tty actions the same way i dont go bananas and pat a friend on the back with full blown positives when he doesnt something good. Savy?

 

[TheException]

It's clear that a good deal of what you (and the community) considers jerk behavior, I consider simply being masculine. I've pointed this out in numerous threads where guys list jerk traits - but there are no negative traits listed. It's always just a list of positive behaviors: Confident, goes after what he wants, doesn't take sh!t from people, doesn't supplicate to women. How does any of that make you a jerk? It only does in the mind of an AFC, or a PUA apparently

This^

Zekko is clearly alluding to that third category of Alpha Male/True Masculine that i was speaking of. Just because you display certain positive traits that get categorized as "jerk traits" doesnt mean you are one. People so fully embrace that jerk mindset(perhaps because of the manosphere inability to seperate jerk traits and masculine/alpha traits) that its like you fail to every even acknowledge the negative traits.

Its what the thread was for. I dont advocate a Jerk....in the true fashion of the word...not what people in the manosphere misinterpret that to be. I advocate for a dominating, confident, MASCULINE alpha male.

 

[PlayHer Man]

I think you are confusing "borderline sociopathy" with confident assertiveness. This "conquest" mentality, while it plays nice to your ego, is not as effective as a more artistic mindset. (Is the term not "pick-up artist"?) I've never had to be a "borderline sociopathy" to get respect. Sure, I am not going to cave into banal platitudes when talking to beautiful women, but talk to them like any other human being with confidence and assertiveness. And I get results. Women (like men) like to be led. Lead them.

Different mindset. Better results without pretending to be something you aren't.

You just don't get it. And NO you're not getting "better" results. You're getting similar results.

Maybe I just have higher standards than you when it comes to how I want females to treat and respond to me. I want submission... not some buddy-buddy relationship. :kick: