Would you remain a Nice Guy if...

[Franky Four Fingers]

There's a lot of truth here, but I don't think it's that simple. You can be compassionate and kind without supplicating--and the whole "nice" thing isn't really about kindness, it's about supplicating and expecting something in return. "Nice" is really just synonymous with needy, unattractive behaviors, as I see it-it's not even GENUINE kindness, as when you expect nothing in return.

This in my experience has been the case, kindness without supplication. I treat my woman EXCEPTIONALLY well. Hold open doors, buy dinner, carry all the groceries, flowers almost weekly, compliment her looks often, you name it. Heck her family looks up to me for how I treat her.

Sounds just like supplicating doesn't it? Sounds almost sickening when you read it doesn't it?

Does this make me beta? Not in the least. I know I am the prize but just as significant SHE knows I know it. How? She can sense it in my demeanor and how I carry myself with carefree confidence.

How do I know I'm the prize? What's my basis for this realization? Simple; because of how I treat her and other people. No I'm not a social hero, no I'm not a millionaire. It doesn't matter. Heck she makes more than me and to her it doesn't matter (doesn't to me for that matter).

She thinks I'm God's gift not just because of how I treat her but she knows the second she gets out of line she's knows I'm ready to walk INSTANTLY if circumstance calls for it. This has the effect of her realizing she will lose a great man and she knows the as*holes won't treat her as well.

Yes I treat her like a Queen but she treats me like a King in return. Who's ahead in that hierarchy? She cooks for me, cleans, alot of compliments, ton's of sex (she wants it even more than me), I'm on the couch she gets up and puts a pillow under my head and feet, reciprocates buying dinner, makes herself attractive whenever she sees me, sends alot of sweet texts/phone calls, etc.

Doesn't sound as sickening to hear when your on the receiving end.

So yes you can treat a woman with "beta" like behavior but only as long as you carry yourself with 100% confidence that you are the prize and they know you realize that and they know your ready to walk if they get out of line.

Treat people well and take no sh*t in return.

Once you got that down the alpha beta thing takes care of itself.

 

[Tazman]

You can't truly answer a question like this because it warps our entire existence. All men and women aren't supposed to be with the people they desire most. The jerk/nice guy behaviors tend to develop on their own based on any given guys station in life, and who they're with. I've seen guys who would be considered AFCs in every sense of the word, but behave in "jerkish" ways, naturally, when they're with women who are really low value. They know, even if subconsciously, that these women are nothing special that can't be easily replaced. However, it's a completely different story when they're around more attractive women.

Nice guys get laid because they possess something of value, but it may not be with the most attractive women and/or in the most beneficial way.

Confidence isn't easy to acquire, it isn't meant to be, which is why women value it so much. So in this "alternate" world, yes I would try to be nice in order to get laid, but that must mean that being a jerk is way too easy.

 

[DropZone3]

In your scenario, I would return to being a nice guy only if I can still have respect and lead nothing less than 51% of the time.

 

[zekko]

There's a lot of truth here, but I don't think it's that simple. You can be compassionate and kind without supplicating.

I agree, I think it's FAR from being that simple.
Just because there are some pickup principles about jerks that we are familiar with does not mean that you can take some generalities and turn them into the equivalent of scientific law. There are far too many exceptions to every rule, and ESPECIALLY when it comes to pickup dogma.

I think it's somewhat revealing that the subject line is "Would you REMAIN a Nice Guy if....". It seems to imply that it is the natural state for a guy. So it would appear that all these guys who have transformed themselves into jerks have done so solely for the purpose of pleasing women. In other words, they have already compromised their principles. So why wouldn't they do so in reverse?

Fact is: All attractive women are not with jerks.
I would argue that most of them are not.
So this idea that you have to be a jerk to attract women is pure BS.

There are a lot of good ideas here, about confidence, manliness, standing up for yourself, boldness, going after what you want, not being needy, desperate, or supplicating, etc. But all of those things are GOOD qualities. The term "jerk" suggests bad qualities, and seems to be missing the whole point, if you ask me.

 

[synergy1]

HA! It's kinda true.

As to the original question, I dont think I'd change too much. I'm sort of a mixed bag of nice guy and azzhole already. Not in the poetry and flowers sense, but there are times when I come off too eager. On the other hand I've been called an azzhole (in jest and in anger) so many times....we're talking powers of 10. It's kind of an art form knowing when to be nice and when to be mean. I've had success and failure with both.

This pretty much echos what I think. We all fall somewhere in between being nice and a jerk, and have our good days and bad days. I don't think I would change just to be whats "trendy", but at the same time you don't want to be such an insufferable loaf that no one likes you.

Women like me for me, most of the time. If they don't than no biggie. I am confident that I would find a chick I like who takes my great/ assholish tendencies and enjoy them.

To put this more into context, lets look at a real life example. Living in Virginia, you are around a lot of hippies and the like. Lets just say they don't respond the same way girls from the north east do, so I struggled greatly to even get phone numbers in VA. Actually I was a pariah when it came to hitting on girls, not that they were even really that hot! So suddenly, being "me" was out of style! What did I do? Sadly, I didn't adapt as I didn't care for the people or the culture and simply didn't get sex. In this case, being something else was in, and I really had no interest to get into that in-crowd.

The above example is much like another example I posted on an alpha male thread. In summary, a study was being done on a group of monkeys about the stress level through the ranks. In a freak turn of events, the alpha males ate contaminated food and were eradicated , and the beta males took over. They found that new alpha males were unwelcome to the group, and the behavior was discouraged. Does this suggest that behavior is learned and rigid after a certain time? If being nice where in, would we be able to change? Knowing what we know now, I do not think so.

 

[Colossus]

Something I wanted to add but Jeff and Zekko already touched on perfectly is that we really need to be clear on what type of "nice" we're talking about. It all comes down to your motive. If you are doing nice things in hopes of winning a girl's affection, this is AFC, as we call it, and will accomplish exactly the opposite. But if you are simply kind or 'gentlemanly' without the ulterior motive of reward, then it takes the win-or-lose aspect out of it and you essentially remove yourself from outcome-dependency.

The nice vs. jerk dichotomy is just another example of hyperpolarzing pickup dogma.

 

[TheHumanist]

RT, I have a feeling you are making this thread for a reason more than just wondering how many would of us take the chance to be a caricature "nice guy" if possible. Just a hunch of my understanding of your style.

 

[Jitterbug]

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

[Warrior74]

Wait, I'm the only nice guy here?

 

[Big Overseas 1]

I think nice guy or jerk is just a matter of somebody else's opinion of you.

I know a lot nice guys who act like jerks to some girls. But I know fellas who are jerk type too, but they are nice to their girls though. So I think in the OP's make believe world most fellas would just stay the way they are because that's who they are. But I bet they'd probably start acting whichever way that'l get them whatever woman they want.

 

[zekko]

Lol, yep. I bet 90% of the guys on here, if they were jerks in this alternate universe and couldn't get any women, would log on to SoSuavewithaSpockbeard.com and learn how to be a nice guy.

I think nice guy or jerk is just a matter of somebody else's opinion of you.

I know a lot nice guys who act like jerks to some girls. But I know fellas who are jerk type too, but they are nice to their girls though

I was thinking that too. A jerk or nice guy is in the eye of the beholder.
There are guys who are jerks to women but treat other men well.
And there are guys who are jerks to other guys but treat their women wel..

 

[Mike32ct]

Yes

 

[ThunderMaverick]

You're talking about being someone that you don't want to be all for the promise of getting laid. Most men would do this, of course. Men who hit dry spells would do this. Would they compromise the relationship because of it? Of course. Men do it everyday in this reality.

Have I done it? Been someone else just to get laid? No. Have I been compromising in a relationship to try to make my woman happy? Yes.

This question is way too simple to give just a simple answer. Too many variables, dude.

 

[st_99]

Jacking it is only slightly less fun than the real thing,

You know I never really thought about it, but you're probably right.

:crackup: