Would jogging be counterproductive to working out?

[Solarium]

I go to the gym 6 days of the week. Alternating days of muscle building, and jogging.

Monday chest/biceps (4 reps total of 3 sets each at 12-10-8 or 10-8-6 depending on weight)
Tuesday jog/elliptical 30 minutes (4 miles, or 500 calories or so)
Wednesday triceps/back (again, 4 reps of the same thing)
Thursday jog/elliptical (same amount)
Friday shoulders/legs (3 reps of shoulders, 1 rep quads, 1 rep glutes, 1 rep calves)
Saturday jog/elliptical (same amount)

*Note: I work out my abs everyday at the gym, alternating days of weighted crunches and ab rolling (using one of those wheel things you push while kneeling)

I want to keep doing cardio to keep my body healthy and to train my will/endurance/stamina. My concern is that if I keep jogging, will it be too counterproductive to my muscle building. I increased my food intake by trying to eat 3 full meals a day, with 2 additional protein shakes - 1 when I wake up another when I go to sleep, making it almost 5 meals a day. Should I cut down on the jogging, to say once per week to increase my muscle mass faster?

 

[Don Waldo]

I prefer doing Low Intensity cardio(30 min. walking on the treadmill with a slight incline) post weight training for optimum fat loss, seeing as your glycogen stores are depleted.

And you should be sipping on a mixture of BCAA's/Whey pre/during/post workout to keep you in an anabolic state. I currently use 2 scoops of Controlled Labs Purple Wraath, 8 scoops MRM BCAA+G, & 1 scoop of Berry flavored whey protein...tastes lovely!!

And for your bedtime shake...pick up some Casien Protein. Use 1 scoop Casien mixed with 1 Scoop whey...and eat a handfull of some almonds with it. The whey protein digests too fast by itself...the added Casien(slower digesting) protein will keep you in an anabolic state for a longer period of time, mixed with the almonds(healthy fats).
Also don't just consume the Whey protein shakes by themselves you need some healthy fats with it i.e. Natty Peanut Butter, Almonds, Avocados.

BTW...working your abs everyday is overkill...abs is more diet than it is excercises

 

[Solarium]

I prefer doing Low Intensity cardio(30 min. walking on the treadmill with a slight incline) post weight training for optimum fat loss, seeing as your glycogen stores are depleted.

And you should be sipping on a mixture of BCAA's/Whey pre/during/post workout to keep you in an anabolic state. I currently use 2 scoops of Controlled Labs Purple Wraath, 8 scoops MRM BCAA+G, & 1 scoop of Berry flavored whey protein...tastes lovely!!

And for your bedtime shake...pick up some Casien Protein. Use 1 scoop Casien mixed with 1 Scoop whey...and eat a handfull of some almonds with it. The whey protein digests too fast by itself...the added Casien(slower digesting) protein will keep you in an anabolic state for a longer period of time, mixed with the almonds(healthy fats).
Also don't just consume the Whey protein shakes by themselves you need some healthy fats with it i.e. Natty Peanut Butter, Almonds, Avocados.

BTW...working your abs everyday is overkill...abs is more diet than it is excercises

I used to run for 30 minutes after working out but that was way too tiring and limit my energy during the work out, so I try to limit myself 1.5 hours at the gym now.

What's BCAA? I use EAS 100% Whey Protein after I work out (43 grams, around 2 servings), and 23 grams (1 serving) in the mornings. Since I'm at the library all day and I try to be very time efficient, I work out only right before I go home, around midnight. I read somewhere that your highest pain tolerance is somewhere in the late nights, so that might be good.

Here's my diet so far:
wake up around 10am - 23 grams whey protein
11am - breakfast, usually at the school's subway (omelet with steak, on 6 inch honey oat)
3-5pm - lunch (whatever)
7-9pm - dinner (subway again, double meat of whatever on 6 inch honey oat)
work out around 10pm-midnight - then 43 grams whey protein
sleep around 1-2am

I've heard that working your abs is OK to be an every day thing. What do you mean by "abs is more diet than it is excercises?" Does it actually burn fat?

Also, I'm wondering if any of you guys use Creatine. Does it have health issues, and if so do the benefits outweighs the negatives?

Thanks again

 

[Don Waldo]

1) That's why you should do low intensity cardio post workout. And your weight training should take no longer than 45 minutes. Get the job done & get out!

2)BCAA's? read up....http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bcaa2.htm

And as long as you drink your pre/during/post mix of BCAAs & Whey...U can wait 30-45 min. to have your post workout meal after your workout.

3)Morning shake have 2 scoops of protein powder with some healthy fats(almonds) & try including healthy fats with EVERY meal.

4)Sure you can work your abs every day...but what's the point? More is not always better!
What i mean by "abs is more diet than it is excercises?" is that you can do ab excercises until your blue in the face...but you'll never see sh1t if you don't lower your body fat enough...low body fat is the key to getting abs! The excercises will just help bring 'em out more...once you get the bf low enough!

5)All about Creatine...http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/likness2.htm

Best Creatine product i've used so far is...http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/clabs/mag.html And it tastes killer!

 

[blinkwatt]

@ Don Waldo,

I don't mean to come across the wrong way but don't read too much into what bodybuilding.com says about their supplements. Bodybuilding.com has GREAT prices compared to alot of stores but they build there products up soooo much when truth is,you'd be fine with a good healthy diet.

 

[blinkwatt]

@ Solarium,

Dude if you like the results your getting now by no means change it. If your goal is to gain as much size(fat and muscle) as quick as possible then I would recommend to knock the cardio out of the picture. I have personally been able to get away with doing cardio twice a week and still gain muscle while dropping bodyfat but then the fatigue factor started to kick it. Truth is,once I perfected my diet,I dropped the cardio and my bodyfat still continued to drop at a steady pace.

 

[Don Waldo]

@ Don Waldo,

I don't mean to come across the wrong way but don't read too much into what bodybuilding.com says about their supplements. Bodybuilding.com has GREAT prices compared to alot of stores but they build there products up soooo much when truth is,you'd be fine with a good healthy diet.

No worries mate!

I'm just going by what i've researched extensively...and supplements that i've actually tried myself. But i agree the best supplement you can purchase is FOOD!

But i admit...i'm a supplement junkie! It's my "drug" of choice!

 

[Solarium]

@ Solarium,

Dude if you like the results your getting now by no means change it. If your goal is to gain as much size(fat and muscle) as quick as possible then I would recommend to knock the cardio out of the picture. I have personally been able to get away with doing cardio twice a week and still gain muscle while dropping bodyfat but then the fatigue factor started to kick it. Truth is,once I perfected my diet,I dropped the cardio and my bodyfat still continued to drop at a steady pace.

Did you have endurance problems after knocking out the cardio? I mean do you breathe heavily after going uphill for awhile, or start fainting out during sex? I want to gain muscle mass ASAP (170 pounds, 5'11), but want to keep up my endurance to study better, fvck better, and run better

 

[blinkwatt]

Did you have endurance problems after knocking out the cardio?

I never really felt fatigued during a work out,but it was several hours later when it would catch up to me.

I mean do you breathe heavily after going uphill for awhile, or start fainting out during sex?
I would just be tired as heck working out in the AM 6 days a week then doing cardio in the PM twice a week.

I want to gain muscle mass ASAP (170 pounds, 5'11), but want to keep up my endurance to study better, fvck better, and run better

I'm sure if you rotate between cardio once or twice a week you will be cool. You never know unless you try.

 

[Solarium]

I guess in the end, what I'm trying to ask is that can protein or creatine supplements replace the lost muscle from doing cardio. If not I better cut down on the cardio even though it may help out in the long run

 

[stronglifts]

I go to the gym 6 days of the week. Alternating days of muscle building, and jogging.

Monday chest/biceps (4 reps total of 3 sets each at 12-10-8 or 10-8-6 depending on weight)
Tuesday jog/elliptical 30 minutes (4 miles, or 500 calories or so)
Wednesday triceps/back (again, 4 reps of the same thing)
Thursday jog/elliptical (same amount)
Friday shoulders/legs (3 reps of shoulders, 1 rep quads, 1 rep glutes, 1 rep calves)
Saturday jog/elliptical (same amount)

*Note: I work out my abs everyday at the gym, alternating days of weighted crunches and ab rolling (using one of those wheel things you push while kneeling)

I want to keep doing cardio to keep my body healthy and to train my will/endurance/stamina. My concern is that if I keep jogging, will it be too counterproductive to my muscle building. I increased my food intake by trying to eat 3 full meals a day, with 2 additional protein shakes - 1 when I wake up another when I go to sleep, making it almost 5 meals a day. Should I cut down on the jogging, to say once per week to increase my muscle mass faster?

If you train for maximal strength/speed/power, jogging is counterproductive. Would be better to do sprints.

 

[Solarium]

How long of sprints? These are the ones you run really fast then stop, then run really fast again right.

 

[stronglifts]

How long of sprints? These are the ones you run really fast then stop, then run really fast again right.

right.

Because of the nature of the exercise, you obviously can not sprint for a long time.

I'm not familiar with sprinting, but I'd guess that 10x50m with 1 min rest would get some blood pumped.

 

[Solarium]

I always read up how cardio can be counterproductive when it comes to weight lifting, muscle building, strength training. Why is that though... do you burn muscle before fats as a source of energy. Is there a way to prevent muscle loss while still retaining your cardio work outs?

 

[mrRuckus]

study better, fvck better, and run better

I'm so busy physically lately I don't even want to have sex because I'm so sore and worn down by the time (usually late night) some girl would want to have sex. Gotta trick em into being on top or just plain out tell them not to come over. At least it leaves them good and confused about how could i turn them down for sex and they have to work extra hard to make it worth my while

3 days lifting, 2 days center field in softball, 1 day batting cage, 5-6 days of 45-60 min incline walking per week, one day on my ass. Any time outside of that and work i just want to watch tv.

 

[BluEyes]

I hear ya.

I'm in the same situation.

All my pals are genuine lazy sh*ts. They have gym memberships but prolly use them once a year. I'm at the gym 5 days a week(3xweights/cardio + 2xcardio).

Anyhow, once the weekend comes around, all my mates want to do something physical like a game of football or 'soccer'(as u boys call it) or frisbee. I don't even bother playing most of the time. They all think I'm so lazy, and wonder how I have a killer body. Meh, weekends are for rest, but they just don't get it.

 

[ATX1001]

I guess in the end, what I'm trying to ask is that can protein or creatine supplements replace the lost muscle from doing cardio. If not I better cut down on the cardio even though it may help out in the long run

I'm certainly no expert, but some studies say that l-glutamine stops muscle loss during cardio (of course other studies say it doesn't). Creatine usually contains a bit of l-glutamine (the one I use contains 2g per scoop) but from what I've read you should be taking 10-15g per day when you are training cardio. 5-7g upon waking (and before cardio) and 5-7g before bed.

 

[stronglifts]

I always read up how cardio can be counterproductive when it comes to weight lifting, muscle building, strength training. Why is that though... do you burn muscle before fats as a source of energy. Is there a way to prevent muscle loss while still retaining your cardio work outs?

If you lift to gain muscle mass
Cardio is obviously not very smart because of the caloric deficit it creates, you'll need to eat more. It's throwing money out of the window. You're just burning what you eat.


If you lift for maximal strength
Maximum strength is achieved by
1) lifting heavy
2) lifting fast (speed)
3) lifting explosively (power)

Doing cardio for long periods at a low intensity is the opposite of the 3 above. Cardio builds muscle endurance, but not strength.


If you're not concerned about strength, then yes do cardio to burn the fat. If you're concerned about strength, then sprints (or HIIT) is a better choice.

Whatever you'll do, be sure to recover enough. Doing cardio/springts + lifting weights, when cutting the calories is hard.

Good luck.

 

[Solarium]

If strength is directly related to muscle mass, then yes.

Just some updates:
I'm now eating 4 real meals a day, plus 2 shakes, 1 when I wake up, and one post-workout/before sleep (I still work out right before I go back home to sleep). Also cut down cardio to 2 days of the week, giving me 2 days to fully rest. I gained about 4 pounds since last time I was on this board, and am lifting about 18-20% heavier than I was before. Also started using exclusively weights and stopped using the machines. I'm not sure if I gained more muscle or more fat, but probably fat since it's only been 3 weeks.

Been learning about nutrition in my biochem class. So far my BMR (basal metabolic rate) is about 80kg * 1.0 * 24hr = 1920, +300 TE (assuming I have 3000 daily caloric intake) + 0.5*1920 (50% of BMR during heavy daily exercise) = 3180 calories total daily output. So that's a good thing, even with a 3000 calorie per day diet I should have no problem keeping fit at the same time.

Few questions. If I were to work to gain muscle mass, would I want to lift fast and explosively as you mentioned? What I've heard from most trainers is that I should lift slowly, keeping a good form instead, which is what I've been doing.

Also, I'm doing the cardio mostly to train my mind. I notice that I study much much better after doing cardio than weight training.

You also hinted that in order to gain muscle mass in the upper body (which is what most men aim for), I should also use sprints for the lower body? What is the logic behind that? Doing cardio or sprints using your legs and feet in theory shouldn't make any difference in your upper body does it?

BTW, I've been trying to copy your after-workout shake ( http://stronglifts.com/quick-easy-effective-post-workout-shakes/ ), but I replaced the instant oats with something called "Quaker oats beverage mix" (with main ingredient dextrose and oat flour). I couldn't find the instant oats you were talking about but will this thing work? It tastes pretty sweet... so I don't know if that's a good thing. I also added 2 spoons of whole milk powder to the shake. So in the end = 2 scoops of 100% whey protein (43g protein), 2 spoons of oat powder, and 2 scoops of milk powder, with no raisins and no bananas (too lazy to peel bananas and buy raisins). Overall it tastes pretty good, just started today though.

 

[EFFORT]

Don't expect to add much with that diet. Bump up your protein to 340g and keep your carbs and fat at a moderate level around 130g of fat and 300g of carbs. You have to EAT if you want to gain. Whats your routine looking like now?

Have you not read the idiots guide to growth by WBA?(why is it not a sticky?) seems like your missing some basic concepts.