Working out to failure or not?

[GamePlan]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it...but I dont see what this has to do with my question/the quote you used, where I asked how lifting to failure was worse for one's joints. I also believe, if youre really concerned about d oing it in a healthy way then you can lift (almost) to failure with good form (meaning failure = inability to get a last rep done with completely proper form/breathing).

Just out of curiosity, does any of you guys know someone who has ever had a "rupture" of their pec (or biceps or triceps, etc.)? I've been wondering if this kind of thing happens almost only to bodybuilder/powerlifter kind of guys using really heavy loads.

 

[kickureface]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it...but I dont see what this has to do with my question/the quote you used, where I asked how lifting to failure was worse for one's joints. I also believe, if youre really concerned about d oing it in a healthy way then you can lift (almost) to failure with good form (meaning failure = inability to get a last rep done with completely proper form/breathing).

Just out of curiosity, does any of you guys know someone who has ever had a "rupture" of their pec (or biceps or triceps, etc.)? I've been wondering if this kind of thing happens almost only to bodybuilder/powerlifter kind of guys using really heavy loads.

mostly BBers get them, because their form on the bench is not very good. PL form is very safe. some PLers rip them when they do STUPID things, like very stupid. otherwise it's fine.
joints should be fine unless your form is bad.

 

[MetalFortress]

Training to failure is just another way to skin a cat. It's by no means necessary, but it's not BAD either.

 

[mrRuckus]

mostly BBers get them, because their form on the bench is not very good. PL form is very safe. some PLers rip them when they do STUPID things, like very stupid. otherwise it's fine.
joints should be fine unless your form is bad.

http://www.intensemuscle.com/29462-like-i-always-say-its-not-if-but-when-flat-barbell-bench-press.html?highlight=pec+tear

 

[GamePlan]

INteresting read mr ruckus, thanks.

But, the main thing I'm wondering: When those guys all say how dangerous the bb bench press is and assume that incline bench press/db bench presses are much safer (because most pec injuries happen during the bb bench press according to doctors)....maybe the thing is that the majority of people working out there chest do bb bench presses, thus it happens most often during bb bench presses? Everybody basically says "you have to bench press" and everyone I know does that for chest, so Im wondering if that might be the main reason why it happens mostly during bb bench press...

really just wondering if I could spare me that trouble when switching to incline bb presses and db presses (or just incline db presses)....or if I'd really just be fooling myself and being in 30 degrees incline position or using dumbells instead wont make that movement any safer for me...?

How do you work out your chest? I've been doing bb bench presses (and nothing but them) ever since. Yet recently I read "If bb bench presses are the best exercise for the chest, then seated rows must be the best exercise for biceps" (lol). Might sound silly, but I guess it's actually true. Maybe not seated rows but chin ups (or was it pull ups? I mean with palms facing your face). Nobody would really assume that using such an exercise (which allows you to lift "heavier" and is a "compound" movement) would make your biceps grow more easily than doing simply curls.

Also, during the first 3 years when I lifted, I never worked out my back or legs (because I couldnt do so at home and had social anxiety issues and thus didnt go to a gym, of course I have been working them out for the last 5 years now!)...however I only used an isolation exercise (curls) for biceps and my biceps still grew just like all the other muscles on my body. Thus, I'm wondering if maybe doing nothing but db flyes, pecdeck, cable crossovers would help you grow your pec muscles just as well?

PS: From the incidences that I've read it does somehow seem like pec ruptures (or tears) seem to be mostly a problem of people benching large amounts of weight (very advanced lifters), way more than their own bodyweight. Have you ever heard of this kind of injury happening to a guy who only put on 20lbs of muscle mass and benched around his own body weight (or less) for reps, not more?

Just curious how concerned I have to be about it, as the 20lbs Ive put on are enough for me really, and am wondering if this kind of injury is limited to mostly bodybuilders/power lifters/big guys (moving big weights), or if it's also a big problem for the average guy who just works out to build/keep his 20lbs of extra muscle on him.

 

[Smack]

There is absolutely no scientific logic in lifting to failure. All this, as well as the 5 day split with one body part each day rubbish, originates from bodybuilding sources which caters to the genetic elite who are also on gear. For such a popular pastime, there is a huge amount of absolute rubbish, counter-productive and often dangerous 'advice' about it.

Generally, if you're a normal person not on gear, then you'd do better off not looking at bodybuilding sources for your weight training information.

 

[GamePlan]

@Smack: So have you never (or hardly ever) worked out to failure, but been able to make significant gains? (just curious)

 

[kickureface]

http://www.intensemuscle.com/29462-like-i-always-say-its-not-if-but-when-flat-barbell-bench-press.html?highlight=pec+tear

I was actually referring to IM in my post, just a different thread.
You haxing my comp?!?!

 

[Smack]

@Smack: So have you never (or hardly ever) worked out to failure, but been able to make significant gains? (just curious)

Absolutely. Occasionaly I have came pretty close to failure, though, but training to failure, or training to feel the 'burn' or 'pump' isn't part of my workout goals.

Infact, I've never done more than 5 reps per set either. Nor do I spend over an hour in the gym. Nor do I do that many exercises...

 

[MetalFortress]

There's a right way and a wrong way to train to failure. Just as there's a right way and a wrong way to train high-volume. DC training is definitely an example of the "right" way to train to failure.

 

[Drum&Bass]

I can't believe this thread is still going...There is nothing wrong with lifting to failure. I do it all the time when I bench press, squat and over head press or any other exercise for that matter and I get results. There are days when I don't lift to failure, like when I hit a PR on a deadlift and I'm exhausted. I'll know when to walk away.

You don't have to lift to failure every time but if you decide not to lift to failure ever, your short changing yourself.

 

[kickureface]

There's a right way and a wrong way to train to failure. Just as there's a right way and a wrong way to train high-volume. DC training is definitely an example of the "right" way to train to failure.

Now see all the people going to try DC.

 

[mrRuckus]

Now see all the people going to try DC.

This forum tends to be guys like 120-200 lbs, none of which should be touching DC. Most anything i post is aimed for this range of people else we'd be bogged down in "excepts" and "buts."

The guys who could be doing a program like DC don't need to ask questions about going to failure here.

 

[Metacomet]

I said he wasnt "hulk" and that his "natural bodytype" (aka ectomorph vs. mesomorph vs. endomorph) wasn't the "strong" type.

My Dad is tall and 'hulky' like myself, strong body type - however he does not hit the gym often. His arms are still huge at 50 and he is far stronger than young bucks like myself.

How do they accomplish this?

After a certain age I think men hit a second puberty. It's hard to explain. They don't need to train like we do or do all the 'right things'. This is the similar complaint that women have about older men looking better... sometimes they just have it easy.


The fact of the matter is : We are younger - we can work harder and get better results. So why not do it? Work harder than your dad. Mine doesn't have to hit the gym to be big and strong, but I know I can only be AS strong or stronger if I work hard. I will not be genetically inheriting his body until I'm his age.

As for lifting to failure: Do it if you need to experience it. But if you are like me you will notice that it takes ALOT of sets and ALOT of time to totally exhaust a muscle. Exhausting a muscle also tends to throw a wrench in other exercises that require that muscle.

Basically I have found that hitting the ceiling takes TOO LONG and leads to classic over-training. I might as well lift really hard and stop when I am well spent - because pushing my body to the 'limit' is like chasing a finish line that keeps moving. I can always 'keep going'.... I can literally lift all day long until my muscles tear and my form is utter ****. But why do that?

Anyone get my drift?

 

[mrRuckus]

INteresting read mr ruckus, thanks.

But, the main thing I'm wondering: When those guys all say how dangerous the bb bench press is and assume that incline bench press/db bench presses are much safer

They're not assuming. The loading on the joints, pecs, and shoulders is definitively different.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Failure means you can't continue the exercise. If you do, your form is garbage.

The only benefit from straining your body to such an extent is that it strengthens the nervous system, assuming it can take the stress, but you are risking injuries. The times that I have gone to failure, or closest to, I have regretted. I pulled muscles several times and its painful.

Stick to proper form. There is a reason everyone says:

Use proper form.