Work on your GAME (Why I Don't Get "Rejected")

[Bungo Pony]

Of course, I miss out on all the great threads on my busy weekend

One thing I'd like to add. A person will have a difficult time concluding if a woman is interested in him if he's never had any experience with women. It takes time to be able to tell if she's into you or not. After a person's had some experience with women, he'll easily be able to tell if the woman is interested in him or not.

 

[Luscious]

Very nice answer, SexPDX. Much appreciated.

After your post about the Juggler workshop, I went and downloaded his archived posts from fastseduction. It's certainly a better way than what I had been using.

 

[copeland]

The following are my definitive points:

Topic: Conscious Awareness of Increasing Attraction Before Closing

Covered.

Knowing this does not have to specifically be articulated. What should be articulated is how they believed they increased that attraction.


Topic: Role Reversal

Covered.

The goal you advocate: “ have the woman try to seduce YOU.”

Your definition (and yes oxford style definitions are important) of the woman seducing YOU --“she will do things like elicit your values and try to close you.”

Your ultimate goal is therefore to have the woman try to close you, as in ask for your number or voluntarily give you her number without you having to ask.

No. If you seduce her correctly, the seduction will naturally become a cooperative effort and she will WANT you to close her, as opposed to her not WANTING you to close her. To say that if ‘the woman doesn’t close you, you have not properly seduced her’ has no merit. Men are the aggressors and are responsible for closing.

Topic: Over Analysis

Covered.

Stay focused on seducing HER. There’s no need to throw around terms such as her seducing YOU. Like I’ve said earlier, almost everything is a by-product of you seducing her not the other way around. What’s next, seducing her so she can seduce you, so you can seduce her? It has to stop somewhere. There’s nothing to lose sight of.

Topic: Inclusion of Good AND ‘Bad’ in Reports

Covered.

Major rejections are much less important than minor rejections. When describing them, do it in general terms if you need. Details aren’t necessarily needed to understand concepts that can be applied to a wide range of women. As I said before, simplification is the key. Try to find similarities and generalize.

Topic: Fast Talking Her Out of A Number

Covered.

Everything you say and do when picking up women is for one main purpose: to increase her attraction and close in some way. Giving her an SOI at a high point in conversation is not an exception.

 

[fragmentor]

Interesting debate here. Here's my take on this subject:

The main objective is to generate as much attraction within a woman (during a cold PU environment) as possible before closing. If the woman ends up giving you her number voluntarily/asks for yours then this is merely a by-product. If it happens, great, but don't expect this as most women simply won't or are unlikely to do this.

And as a side note, one good technique I occassionally like to utilise is to, like SexPDX said - during a high part of a conversation (laughing) look the girl in the eye in an inquisitive manner and state "Wow, I'm really starting to like you". This is both a reversal of roles (I'm starting to - you want me to even more don't you? ) and also a sort of SOI. Very effective.

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by copeland
Men are the aggressors and are responsible for closing.

I disagree. That is not necessarily true. If you mean that the man should set a lead then that is true most of the time but if you SOI HER and she CLOSES YOU then having delivered the SOI positions you in a lead role much more so than simply closing.

Who closes is not important. Closing is the LEAST important part of the whole interaction, at least in terms of how it's done. Why is it so important who does it? It's something that happens naturally because ONE OF YOU will do it if everything else is done correctly.

Originally posted by copeland

Stay focused on seducing HER. There’s no need to throw around terms such as her seducing YOU. Like I’ve said earlier, almost everything is a by-product of you seducing her not the other way around. What’s next, seducing her so she can seduce you, so you can seduce her? It has to stop somewhere.

WHY does it "have to stop somewhere"? Your saying "seducing her so she can seduce you, so you can seduce her", even though it was a joke, was TOTALLY on target with what I am talking about. Seduction is a cooperative effort.

You seem to have the impression that this idea is something I sit at my desk all day and theorize about before posting here which is not the case. These are thoughts I have as reflections on my experiences and I am expressing my ideas in writing as best as I can. I am sorry if I am not articulate enough to get it across in a way that is easier to understand. The ideas in this thread are not the product of analysis.

Originally posted by copeland

Major rejections are much less important than minor rejections. When describing them, do it in general terms if you need. Details aren’t necessarily needed to understand concepts that can be applied to a wide range of women. As I said before, simplification is the key. Try to find similarities and generalize.

I disagree that the focus should be on finding similarities and generalizing. I think it should be to gain deeper insight and develop intuitive abilities so that you can see situations for what they are more easily. I say this because back when I was stuck in the kind of "generalizations" frame you are talking about I would project OTHER people's observations of their own experiences onto MY OWN experience and mistake what observations I had for my own insight.

-PDX

 

[SoSuave.com]

Moving this to The Archive.

 

[white cloud 8]

Originally posted by jbbrain
The point is not to care (hence where all the over analyzing stems from) what she's thinking or whether or not you "should" make a move, but rather to be honest with your desires (as a man) and WHAT YOU WANT and make your move based on your HONESTY with yourself.

She'll respect you for it.

I agree with this. Why should I act and think a different way around girls when it is artificial (not being me). I'd rather just go with the flow .

 

[Solomon]

This guy is a legend, I would pay to sarge with Sexpd

Its a shame he doesn't post anymore, I would love to pick his brain apart and what not on various topics


1

 

[ffm86]

I came under some criticism in my Juggler FR for allegedly not being truthful about my "failiures" or "rejections". The reason is that the way I do things most of the time does not put girls in a position to do something to me that would be called a "rejection".

Conventional DJ wisdom dictates that rejection is something that WILL happen and something that should not affect us. That may be an okay frame to start with as a beginner but what I am going to tell you now is that rejection is something that should happen RARELY to NEVER. Let me explain...

Your goal is to have the woman try to seduce YOU. If your game (meaning or rapport and attraction skills) are working and the woman is someone you genuinely like then the woman WILL seduce you. In many cases she will do things like elicit your values and try to close you. These are the kind of things you need to get good enough in order to have happen. Not learning better ways to fast talk her out of a phone number. You can get as good as you want at that but the phone numbers you get will be useless.

In addition to what I wrote in my Juggler post, here are a few things you may find helpful...

SOI's

Someone asked me to clarify this in the other thread and I never got to it. An SOI is a "statement of intent". It lets her know you like her. Mainstream ASF school of though is wrong on this. You SHOULD let her know you like her. It's important for her to know that you are not going to snub or reject her if she makes advances.

At a "high-point" in the interaction say something like "I like you" or "I like the way you look at things". And actually go DDB on HER.

The reason ASF is not big on this is because the person who has influenced ASF more than any ONE PERSON is Mystery whose method is based on PUing superficial women in highly-charged social situations where his main leverage is his ability to cultivate feelings of perssure on the woman's part to gain his approval because her peer group approves of him. I am not an MMer, but I can see how it may not always be best to let her know you like her under this MO.

With most normal women in most normal PU situations however, the woman DOES want to know that you like her.

Closing

Guys, just say "I want to see you again" or "I want to spend some time with you". If you are not in a position of rapport and attraction to be able to say those things and be comfortable in doing so then you are not there and this is a phone number or a meeting that you don't want because it's not likely to go anywhere.

You may have been told "this is a number's game". I was told that too when I first got into the game and that is WRONG. It's only a numbers for guys who have NO GAME and are not interested in working on their game.

Work on your rapport and attraction skills. There is nothing else to work on. If you can get good at THAT then everything else there is to the game is a no-brainer. Frame your interactions so that SHE is expected to sarge YOU. That way there is NO REJECTION.

-PDX

Wait, are you saying that in order to get girls, I have to learn how to attract them?

That's the most brilliant thing I've ever heard!

Why didn't I ever think of that? In order to attract girls, I have to learn to attract girls!

You, sir, are a genius of our time!

 

[Fallen]

And you Sir, are the genius who expects him to answer after 6 years :wave:

 

[SexPDX]

And you Sir, are the genius who expects him to answer after 6 years :wave:

Pray allow me to venture a reply after nearly SEVEN years.

When reading this post and the ensuing discussion (which is hilarious fun for me to do after so long) one has to consider the time at which it was written.

At that time, this board was coming off of long stretch of time during which the dominant influences were Doc Love and Anti-Dump, who believed that guys by and large lacked the wherewithal to actually influence a woman to becoming attracted to them. They may have been right about MOST GUYS but that philosophy fell far short of the standards I had set for myself.

I was convinced, and have become more convinced in my time away from this board and others, that there is a lot that pretty much any guy can do to increase his level of attraction.....IF he is motivated to do so. It's not easy but it can be done, in a number of different ways.

So yes, to say that to attract women you need to learn how to attract women may on its face seem like a statement of the obvious, but the post was written to say that working on your attractiveness is probably a smarter way to approach the issue than searching for the woman who is ready to marry you on first sight of you like AD and Doc Love were recommending.

 

[edger]

You may have been told "this is a number's game". I was told that too when I first got into the game and that is WRONG. It's only a numbers for guys who have NO GAME and are not interested in working on their game.
-PDX

Good game doesn't guarantee anything. It is not a cure for the common cold by a long shot. This I know, because I exhibit, not the best, not superb, but better than average game. Better than most guys out there. And you know what, it does sh*t for me in the greater majority of my interactions with attractive women. And I am also a good-looking guy on top of everything. Something else is going on here with these guys who pull attractive women with consistency every weekend. What it is, I don't know, but something is at work here. I have a friend from southern India that I regularly hit the clubs with, who is as dark as night(don't mean that in any racist way, it's just that dark people aren't viewed as the most desirable, but I'm beginning to think different now, at least in the case with women), and can hardly be understood because he has such a heavy Indian accent, and yet he is one of those guys who pulls typical, hot, provocative-looking white women from the burbs. And this guy's game isn't even anything special, he even says it himself. He can't understand why women are so attracted to him. He tells me he never use to be like this with women, that it is something that has recently started happening with him. The only different thing he said he's doing, is cold-approaching. And his success rate with cold-approaching is like a 97% success rate. This guy pulls hot strippers also with a good rate. I've never seen anything like this guy.

 

[nismo-4]

@ Edgar, the only other thing that it could be is that he got status or money.

Good game is useless unless the woman gives you a chance or she is already attracted to you.

 

[edger]

@ Edgar, the only other thing that it could be is that he got status or money.

Money and status don't apply here, women take a liking to him BEFORE they even know anything about him. Like I said, he just walks right up to them and grabs their interest, just like that. The guy really makes pick-up look so easy. Watching him even convinces me that it's easy, when I know that's far, far from the case. I'll be out with him tonight, and I know for sure this guy's gonna pull, that's how confident I am in him. He'll pull at least 2 typical, hot white women, GUARANTEED!

The guy can't even figure out why I don't pull. He always tells me he can't understand why a good-looking white guy like me has so much trouble pulling. It really baffles and frustrates him. This guy gets pissed that I don't pull. He tells me, "I'm a dark, Indian guy who can hardly be understood when he speaks, and you're a typical, good-looking white guy, yet I'm the one who's always pulling". He tells me, "I've known you for 6 months, and not once have I seen you pull".

 

[8YearLurker]

Money and status don't apply here, women take a liking to him BEFORE they even know anything about him. Like I said, he just walks right up to them and grabs their interest, just like that. The guy really makes pick-up look so easy. Watching him even convinces me that it's easy, when I know that's far, far from the case. I'll be out with him tonight, and I know for sure this guy's gonna pull, that's how confident I am in him. He'll pull at least 2 typical, hot white women, GUARANTEED!

The guy can't even figure out why I don't pull. He always tells me he can't understand why a good-looking white guy like me has so much trouble pulling. It really baffles and frustrates him. This guy gets pissed that I don't pull. He tells me, "I'm a dark, Indian guy who can hardly be understood when he speaks, and you're a typical, good-looking white guy, yet I'm the one who's always pulling". He tells me, "I've known you for 6 months, and not once have I seen you pull".

Are you talking about S_I? That guy is a wack job, I would stay away from him.

 

[edger]

Are you talking about S_I? That guy is a wack job, I would stay away from him.

I don't know who that is. My buddy isn't from this site. However, I do know an Indian guy from this site who goes by the name "Carrot", but we don't hang out. I know he's hung with a couple of people here in the past. I've only hung out with him once. You from NY?

 

[8YearLurker]

I don't know who that is. My buddy isn't from this site. However, I do know an Indian guy from this site who goes by the name "Carrot", but we don't hang out. I know he's hung with a couple of people here in the past. I've only hung out with him once. You from NY?

Ok great, I thought you were referring to someone here. Yeah I'm from Long Island actually.

 

[edger]

Ok great, I thought you were referring to someone here. Yeah I'm from Long Island actually.

Fellow Islander myself, I'm in Mineola. Moved from the Fort Salonga/Kings Park area over the spring. My 'Indian' buddy that I keep mentioning in these threads is from East Meadow. Nice to see people from the Island on this site. You hang on the Island a lot? I'm always in Manhattan, as all the clubs here either die down or close too damn early. Plus most of my friends are either from Manhattan or Brooklyn. There's nothing going on on the Island anymore. I remember like 6 yrs ago, places still had a decent crowd by the time 2 a.m. rolled around. Now by 2 a.m., everyplace turns into a ghost town(think Huntington, Rockville Center, Long Beach, etc.). The Island is real lame nowadays, it's a shame. I've always done pretty decent on the Island with women. Every one of my one-nighter's came from here, except for one which was in the city(could've had another who bluntly invited me to sleep over her apartment, but I wasn't attracted to her, although my friends thought she was attractive). Even my buddy agree's the Island is easier. You would think the city would be easier if anything, but that's far from the truth in my opinion.

 

[8YearLurker]

Fellow Islander myself, I'm in Mineola. Moved from the Northport area over the spring. My 'Indian' buddy that I keep mentioning in these threads is from East Meadow. Nice to see people from the Island on this site. You hang on the Island a lot? I'm always in Manhattan, as all the clubs here either die down or close too damn early. There's nothing going on in the Island anymore. I remember like 6 yrs ago, places still had a decent crowd by the time 2 a.m. rolled around. Now by 2 a.m., everyplace turns into a ghost town(think Huntington, Rockville Center, Long Beach, etc.). The Island is real lame nowadays, it's a shame. I've always pretty decent on the Island with women. All my one-nighters came from here, except for one. Even my buddy agree's the Island is easier. You would think the city would be easier if anything, but that's far from the truth.

Yo, I have this theory about what happened to Long Island. I really feel that all the girls date off the internet now. I don't know what happened but there used to be more girls out. I think they are all on Match.com lol.

I went out to FOUR food lounge this weekend and the place was actually crawling with hotties. You ever go there? Come with me sometime and we can pick up.

Picking up in Long Island is tons of fun. There are actually more women than men if you look in the right spots. And ya, I agree it used to be much more fun.

There's some easy trashy girls at the Crazy Donkey, you ever hit up that place?

I go to the Hamptons in the Summertime, a place called Neptunes, that place is crawling with the hottest sluttiest girls on earth.

Ever try picking up at Roosevelt Field Mall? It's freaking hard but that place is CRAWLING with hotties!

 

[edger]

Yo, I have this theory about what happened to Long Island. I really feel that all the girls date off the internet now. I don't know what happened but there used to be more girls out. I think they are all on Match.com lol.

I went out to FOUR food lounge this weekend and the place was actually crawling with hotties. You ever go there? Come with me sometime and we can pick up.

Picking up in Long Island is tons of fun. There are actually more women than men if you look in the right spots. And ya, I agree it used to be much more fun.

There's some easy trashy girls at the Crazy Donkey, you ever hit up that place?

I go to the Hamptons in the Summertime, a place called Neptunes, that place is crawling with the hottest sluttiest girls on earth.

Ever try picking up at Roosevelt Field Mall? It's freaking hard but that place is CRAWLING with hotties!

Yeah, ya know what, I think you're right, they're all on Match, Yahoo, etc. I think you hit the nail on the head with that one, lol. Been to FOUR like twice, once most recently, like 2 months ago, but it was dead, so we left. It was about 12:30 a.m. or something. Defintely by far the hottest women on the Island go to that place.

Haven't been to the Donkey in a while, maybe like a year and a half. That place gets some HOT women. Talked to one hottie there from Huntington, yrs ago, but never actually hooked up. She actually ended up calling me, but I f*cked it up because I ended up lying to her about working in music publishing(that's when I used to lie to try and get laid), to which she found out, lol. This was back in '03 when me and a buddy of mine from Commack went there one Friday night. Gotta get back there sometime soon, definitely.

Never been to Neptunes, although I hear it's good. Gotta check that out too. My buddy tells me the Hamptons is off the wall with hot women. He said they're just as hot as the city.

Never tried picking up at Roosevelt Field either, although I definitely hear ya on the prevalence of hotties in that place. You've had good success there? Been to virtually all the malls here on the Island(Smithaven, Masssapequa, Hicksville, etc.), and I must say, Roosevelt Field has some hot ass women. Speaking of Massapequa, that town has some f*ckin' hot women, Jeezus Christ. Something about that town, lol.

Dude, we'll definitely hang; me, you, and the guy from East Meadow. This guy's good, I'm tellin' ya. Never seen someone quite like 'em. Pulls and f*cks hot strippers too that he meets in strip clubs, lol. You gotta meet him. I'll PM you my number.