Women who don't say "Thank you"

[taiyuu_otoko]

"Should a queen ever have to thank her court jester for the entertainment?"

Interesting comment. A couple opinions.

1) Most guys, when they see a hot girl, automatically go into the "entertaining court jester" role. So it's not a stretch for a decent looking girl to expect, based on her own experience, that man women relationships are of the queen/court jester variety.

2) Any man who holds a strong frame and holds himself in high value would not elicit this response. She may "test" him to see if his frame is genuine (and hope deep in her bones that it is, for such a strong frame is not only rare but extremely attractive to any woman), but the stronger the frame, the less consequential the tests. To a weak man, the tests may seem insurmountable, but to someone with an honestly strong frame, he wouldn't even notice them.

3) Any woman that doesn't feel the need to say "thank you" has already put the man in the "jester" frame, based on his actions and demeanor. You won't get anything by lecturing her on proper social etiquete. The battle is already lost. Not getting a "thank you" is as much a condemnation on the strength of your frame as it is her social skills.

That being said, a nice, playful retort to the above statement, would be stop, look around in earnest, until she asks what you are looking for.

"I'm looking for a queen. I see a lot of jesters, but I haven't seen a queen yet."

No lectures, no anger. Just playfully take her frame and outframe it.

Whatever her frame is, yours is bigger, and stronger, and can hold inside it whatever frame she can imagine, as a sub-frame.

She can only be a queen, but history is filled with peasant jesters who made themselves king.

 

[Nutz]

What is up with women who don't say thank you? I have run into many women, as young as their early 20's and as old as mid-30's, who do not say "thank you" when you buy them a drink (whether coffee or alcohol) while on a date, or even if you buy them dinner (I do this only if we have been dating for a little while).

I don't get it. If a stranger does anything for me, even holding a door as I am walking into a store behind them, I say "Thank you." I couldn't imagine girls buying me stuff and not saying thank you.

I have this as a litmus test for who is unworthy of a serious LTR, but quite honestly, it is running over 50% of people never say "thank you" when they should. It is sickening.

PS-- this is not to say no one has manners. Many girls do. But at least half don't.

Call them out on it with a smile and be ****y funny. That subtle busting them on their poor manners goes a long way to not being seen as a doormat.

Guy: :holds open door:
Girl: :walks through without saying thanks:
Guy: :stop walking and gesture towards the door with a ****y smiling and say: "And what do you say?"
Girl: Oh, thank you.
Guy: Mmm hmm.

If you've already made out with her then you can spank her butt when she turns around to walk away when you do the Mmm hmm part. Anyway, the main thing is you want it to sound like you're teaching your 5 year old niece basic manners. Treating grown women like small children is powerful stuff for some reason. I guess that's a sign of the times of how messed up our society is, but that's another topic entirely.

 

[tihash]

^^^^

Good shyt

 

[Zarky]

This thread has unfortunately turned into an "Ain't It Awful" b!tch-fest.

90% of the women I've dated have been courteous and thoughtful. If you find yourself dating ones who aren't, figure out what you're doing wrong.

And if you find yourself lumping women all together and then complaining to random strangers in online forums that, "All women are [X]," you should really get your life together. Read the 3rd point in my sig. Bitter men should not foul these boards with their eternal fail.

 

[Jitterbug]

Women I've dated are mostly courteous, because I only ask out those who are. However, I'm observant enough to realise that the majority of women out there have very poor manners.

Take simple things like holding a door open for the person behind you, or moving inside on the seats on public transport to let another person sit down. 100% of the guys will thank me. Maybe 50% of the girls will say thanks, but most say it with such soft voice that I can barely hear them.

 

[Kailex]

100% of the guys will thank me. Maybe 50% of the girls will say thanks, but most say it with such soft voice that I can barely hear them.

This is a very interesting point. I've had this happen to me a LOT in the outside world in general. Very hard-pressed to find a man who won't be appreciative of someone opening the door for them, but the opposite can be said for a lot of women.

Still, to those people who are saying that they hardly go out with women who don't say "THANKS".

My question to you is: How do you filter out unappreciative women from a cold 5 minute approach? Are there certain parameters you go by in order to weed out the "queens"?

Because I'm a bit conflicted as to how men could "tell" whether the woman in question will be appreciatie of ANYTHING rather than feeling ENTITLED.

 

[Jitterbug]

Still, to those people who are saying that they hardly go out with women who don't say "THANKS".

My question to you is: How do you filter out unappreciative women from a cold 5 minute approach? Are there certain parameters you go by in order to weed out the "queens"?

Because I'm a bit conflicted as to how men could "tell" whether the woman in question will be appreciatie of ANYTHING rather than feeling ENTITLED.

Personally I don't ask women out after 5 minutes of cold approach. Most of the girls I've been out with are those I already know to some extent in my social circle.

Still, it's not hard to tell whether a woman has good manners or not after a 5 minutes conversation (assuming that you have good manners yourself).

Does she respond to your initial approach with courtesy, or does she act like you're taking up her royal time out with friends?

Does she contribute equally to the conversation, or do you do most of the talking?

Does she look at you while talking to you, or does she look outwards?

There are more. As you talk to her beyond the 5 minutes, if she displays any feminist view, she is an entitled queen.

The PUAs may have ways to break the ice and lower her shield, but you can be certain that if she acts like the latter in the above, she is an entitled woman who was not raised well. Even if you succeed with her and she has high interest in you, that will never change, so don't invest in her any further than a short fling.

 

[jophil28]

This is a very interesting point. I've had this happen to me a LOT in the outside world in general. Very hard-pressed to find a man who won't be appreciative of someone opening the door for them, but the opposite can be said for a lot of women.

Still, to those people who are saying that they hardly go out with women who don't say "THANKS".

My question to you is: How do you filter out unappreciative women from a cold 5 minute approach? Are there certain parameters you go by in order to weed out the "queens"?

Because I'm a bit conflicted as to how men could "tell" whether the woman in question will be appreciatie of ANYTHING rather than feeling ENTITLED.

All (or most ) human behavior needs to be observed over time. I look for a 'cluster ' of congruent behaviors over a 30 day sampling period.

Women are skilled at this process. They watch us, they observe our reactions and they test our qualities and our characteristics.
Men do not do this so much because our gaze is fixed on her boobies and her azz.

Then, in two months time, when we discover that she is a crazed, feminist control freak who is 'playing' 5 other chumps we are floored.

A 5 minute cold approach can only provide a 'snapshot' which may be out of focus because of her mood, or your's, on the day.

 

[backbreaker]

you should have looked directly at her and said "***** shut the **** up".

that's probably verbatim what i would have done. while i don't normally call women derogatory name she earned that one.

 

[Kailex]

A 5 minute cold approach can only provide a 'snapshot' which may be out of focus because of her mood, or your's, on the day.

This is exactly what I am talking about.
If you're first experience with a person is so limited, how can we guarantee a high success rate of going out with someone who knows what manners are?

Zarky said:

90% of the women I've dated have been courteous and thoughtful. If you find yourself dating ones who aren't, figure out what you're doing wrong.

The problem is, how DO you get to that number with such a small trial period for the first conversation?
Is there something different done in the initial interaction?

Sure I can gauge her on the first date for an expanded period of time, but I find it unusually difficult to figure out how I could possibly tell a courteous one from a spoiled one... unless I take into consideration the venue in which I met this person. That's the only variable that I could possibly see influencing such an outcome with the minimal amount of time invested.

It's still a gamble.

Regardless of said gamble, the first date is more than enough to realize whether she does have manners. This is probably why "first date dinners" are such a no-no. You'd hate to invest that much money in a stranger only for them to feel entitled. It can also be said that the fault could be ours, for giving them that sense of entitlement due to the allure of a dinner date instead of humbling them first with something less pricey.

 

[Jitterbug]

If the way you're meeting women constantly involves cold approaching a stranger that you have no knowledge of other than a 5 minutes interaction, then you may need to explore other venues.

 

[Kailex]

If the way you're meeting women constantly involves cold approaching a stranger that you have no knowledge of other than a 5 minutes interaction, then you may need to explore other venues.

Point taken, but I'm not stating that a majority of the interactions are from cold approaching... I'm basically asking: How DO you get that much information out of a cold approach?

I very rarely cold approach. I'm more of a "flow" person now.

When it's someone from a social circle, someone from work, someone that's known to you or someone you've been introduced to, the dynamic is different... you do have a way to gauge what kind of woman they are.

But you'd have to be a HAWK to catch anything from just 5 minutes of conversation, if EVEN 5 minutes.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Two years ago I was dealing with a bad case of gout (swollen, painful foot) and had to use either a crutch or a cane. Same thing each of the 2 years before that.

Each of the three times, I noticed in travelling around (shopping and such) that most men would be eager to hold open a door for me, and would always stop their vehicle in the parking lot to let me hobble across.

No so with 90% of the "ladies". They will look right at you and let the door slam in front of you, and in the parking lot they will just keep on driving with no thought of stopping to let you go. I still remember how shocked I was about that. In my naivete I thought it would be the direct opposite.

The sad truth is that in this day and age we are for the most part dealing with spoiled children, not ladies. It's a sad commentary that in today's world it takes an exceptional woman to show courtesy, and it takes an average man to show the same courtesy.