Women find mature men repellent

[jhonny9546]

Start with small things, like asking her to fetch a can of Pepsi out of the fridge for me, move to larger things like cooking meals etc, putting her into an effort and reward cycle where each times he is rewarded for her good behavior. It is just leveraging Pavlovian response.

That's good! I think I do this naturally.
I'm very interested on how you reward her usually. What do you do in the specific?

 

[The_Sea_Wolf]

That's good! I think I do this naturally.
I'm very interested on how you reward her usually. What do you do in the specific?

Praise and a smile, often a thank you is enough

 

[jhonny9546]

Praise and a smile, often a thank you is enough

I would usually hug from behind and squeeze her tightly cheek to cheek for a few seconds and then walk away squeezing her ass or pulling her hair, or slapping her legs

 

[jhonny9546]

Yesterday, I read an essay that caught my attention with the phrase "Women want/strive for Toxic Men." A toxic man often creates an emotional rollercoaster, which can make women feel alive.

In modern relationships, I've noticed that "toxic" men, those who act like boys and lack mature behaviors. are surprisingly attractive to "many" women. These "childish" men often receive sympathy and attention from both women and in their workplace or social groups.

This raises another point: if a woman is drawn to a toxic man, there might be an underlying issue. Moreover, a toxic man can only thrive in a toxic relationship, which ultimately leads to unhealthy outcomes for both partners. So this can be a good match for both: a toxic man and a toxic woman.

The question remains: do all women want toxic men? If you find women who prefer mature men, you'll likely see healthy relationships. I've always believed that "similar attracts similar" is the gold standard.
I still believe this. I stil have hope there are "mature" women out there.

Have you every thought if your "toxicity", so not being a mature man, actually did the job for you when attracting women? (even if the wrong ones)

 

[Sophisticator]

Have you every thought if your "toxicity", so not being a mature man, actually did the job for you when attracting women? (even if the wrong ones)

I'm sure many lovers were attracted to what you might call dark triad traits, but they stay around because of the mature control of those 'exciting' traits.
Women mentioned to me that while they'd been excited about volatile 'bad boys' for their impulsivity, they were more excited when a dark gentleman's deliberate actions showed forethought and surprise. Control is exciting.

 

[jhonny9546]

Unfortunately, all that stuff you have (physique, good paying job, etc.) is irrelevant when it comes to arousal. The stuff you have attracts women, but unless your arousing to them, you'll continue to beat your head against a wall. What you need to do is start developing an organic dominance in your conversations w/ females. You need to learn how to use your body language to communicate to women non-verbally that you're high value and have your pick of the litter w/ females.

Why do you think there are extremely hot women who are caught up on dudes who by all external appearances don't have much to offer? It's because these guys are actual alphas. It's in how they speak to women, how they look at them, how they communicate, etc.

That's the stuff you need to focus on. There are a ton of rich, good looking dudes who have ZERO success with females. Other than of course being used for cash, gifts and emotional tampons.

I think there are comments like this on the forum that remind you of many things, such as chance and luck.
You can be a "good match" and a "complete package", but if you won't be able to excite them you'll fade into the background.

That's why I keep saying that, in most cases, the most childish, instinctive, problematic, and toxic man tends to win over the mature and resilient, calm man, in the majority of cases.

 

[New_Journey]

Women want/strive for Toxic Men

This is container word, who gets to decide what is toxic? Women?

The question remains: do all women want toxic men?

Women want a masculine man who is in tuned with his emotions. When she does something to piss him off, he calls her out and enforce boundaries, men who always have a foot outside the door.

Women in LTR only provide two things, sex and company, unless you want children. Men make them as best friend, lover, confidant, gym partner, business partner, therapist, mom, daughter, etc. They make the girl their focus on his life.

Women need to feel they have a catch, if you don't have friends, if you don't look good, don't have a good job, aspirations, other women are after you, if she's too comfortable and its not scared to lose you, then you don't illicit strong emotions that they all crave.

 

[jhonny9546]

This is not a direct reply to @New_Journey but something very interesting I've actually read on the topic "If mature men are repellent to women, look like stupid ones are good catches"

Contrary to the top answers, throughout human history, “high levels of intelligence” in men has been an undesirable trait for sexual selection…

In prehistoric times, where our sexual behaviours still very much originate, men were generally hunter/gatherer types. Whilst women were heavily protected in central society to ensure the continuity of our species. The reason for this, in part, is due to the fact that women are born hypoagent, whilst men are hyperagent. This is precisely why the law of attraction, for most species, assigns males the role of “competitor" and females the role of “selector". Since the very beginnings of humanity, sexual selection powers have lied very much in the firm grip of females. Females have “Hypergamous” instincts, which means they target their sexual preferences towards the highest status available men (in relation to the social hierarchy). Beyond that, women also all share the same intrinsic value as “breeders”. This is how they were able to assume a state of protection in prehistoric villages and how they adopted evolutionary functions such as ‘automatic own group preference’. However, males remained largely expendable to women and other males. In these times men could be taken down a valley and beaten to a bloody pulp for even challenging a woman.

To answer your question, the reason “intelligence” is undesirable, is due to a females need to outsource risk to a man (so that it might be easier for her in undertaking pregnancy and motherhood). This requires attraction to a trait called the “Willingness to Emote”. The “Willingness to Emote” is found, to a greater extent, in men with lower levels of intelligence. On the other hand, in a prehistoric environment, higher levels of intelligence were associated primarily with the trait “Introspection”. This essentially means ‘thinking before you act’ to reduce risk. It is therefore much easier to outsource risks and provision to a less intelligent man who will 'act before they think'. Women are the proprietors of sexual selection and have assumed this power through a biological function known as “automatic own group preference “. This means they prefer to associate with other women socially, and adhere to ideas that primarily serve women above men. On the other hand, men’s natural instincts include the protection of women and provision of security.

In summary, “intelligence” is not a sexually desirable trait, because through sexual selection women are aiming to achieve maximum benefit. They achieve this by exploiting the “willingness to emote” (acting without thinking), and social status (material wealth) of men. The top answer, which indeed was very feminist suggested that “feminist views” helps a man to be attractive. Though I agree that men holding feminist views is not especially “intelligent” of them. On the contrary, its men who could plausibly display a logical opposition to feminism that women would inevitably remove from the selection process.

Essentially, a woman will not typically select a man who has autonomy over his own beliefs regarding women. Or is intelligent enough to avoid the manipulation of their carnal instincts in the favour of female interest. Intelligent men ARE NOT attractive to women per se. Rather intelligent men, with high status and willingness to being manipulated into taking on additional risks on behalf of a woman, ARE. This is fundamental human evolutionary theory. Without an ability to provide for a woman, a man becomes too easily expendable to justify as a long term option. More simply put, in the absence of “willingness to emote", intelligence becomes undesirable.

Now a response to @New_Journey

Women need to feel they have a catch, if you don't have friends, if you don't look good, don't have a good job, aspirations, other women are after you, if she's too comfortable and its not scared to lose you, then you don't illicit strong emotions that they all crave.

I have a friend which doesn't have anything of this, which I consider, in danger.
I let him know, but He won't listen. He says "I'm fine, relaxed and happy".
He's married with two kids, and I started to see his wife to take over him in social settings with disrespect and other things you will consider red flags.
You're right.

 

[New_Journey]

This is not a direct reply to @New_Journey but something very interesting I've actually read on the topic "If mature men are repellent to women, look like stupid ones are good catches"


Now a response to @New_Journey

I have a friend which doesn't have anything of this, which I consider, in danger.
I let him know, but He won't listen. He says "I'm fine, relaxed and happy".
He's married with two kids, and I started to see his wife to take over him in social settings with disrespect and other things you will consider red flags.
You're right.

To get the girl you need to make her aroused with primitive behaviors and looks. To keep a girl you need to make her secured, the issue is men offer security without even a prover vetting her or even fcking her, they give everything to the girl from the get go, and that's not sexy for any woman.

He's married with two kids, and I started to see his wife to take over him in social settings with disrespect and other things you will consider red flags.

Whenever you see a woman berating her husband, she's just reflecting how $hitty he is, into him. Women emulate their men in their life.

- A woman with a HVM, she acts right, because if she doesn't, he will leave her.
- A woman with a LVM, will act disrespectful, resentfully, sometimes she will fall in depression, she will cheat, and if he keeps allowing it to happen, she will do it even more.

That's the emasculation paradox, when a guy walks on eggshells to not upset his woman, he ends up losing her anyways and not doing what he wants.

While having status, money, muscles, definitely helps attracting a woman, the man has to be congruent with what he is.

 

[SW15]

I don't think women find mature men repellent.

Mature women (30+) are often dating mature men (30+).

Women 18-25 might find a man 10+ years older repellent without above average looks and above average financial stats (income/net worth).

 

[New_Journey]

Women 18-25 might find a man 10+ years older repellent without above average looks and above average financial stats (income/net worth).

Good. Women are drivers of society, if young women don't wanna fvck you or chasing you, you need to improve areas in your life cause you svck at being a good catch.

 

[jhonny9546]

Whenever you see a woman berating her husband, she's just reflecting how $hitty he is, into him. Women emulate their men in their life.

- A woman with a HVM, she acts right, because if she doesn't, he will leave her.
- A woman with a LVM, will act disrespectful, resentfully, sometimes she will fall in depression, she will cheat, and if he keeps allowing it to happen, she will do it even more.

Did you study psychology or sociology?
What you say on the forum is a careful analysis and you also manage to use acronyms to describe it well.

Let's say that the relationships of my friends here in Italy are 80% LVM, and 20% HVM.

My father certainly lived in LVM.

But I can also say with certainty that there are relationships that from HVM convert to LVM over time, after the birth of children or marriage. Is it inevitable?

Expecially this Whenever you see a woman berating her husband, she's just reflecting how $hitty he is, into him. Women emulate their men in their life.

It's just inevitable, a female friend do it sometimes to her husband too. They have the most HVM relationship I know.

don't think women find mature men repellent.

Mature man doesn't mean a "old" man.
It's in the behaviour part of him

 

[New_Journey]

Did you study psychology or sociology?

No, I just made almost every fvcking mistake throughout my dating life that I became obsessed with the topic in order to unplugged myself from the social engineering we all have.

But I can also say with certainty that there are relationships that from HVM convert to LVM over time, after the birth of children or marriage. Is it inevitable?

Honestly, I don't know man. Monogamy is not natural, eventually one of them will cheat, its in the DNA.

A man will always want to have variety, even if you have the perfect woman, there will be something in you that wants to fvck another woman.

A woman when she secured a man with children, eventually she will want to fvck a better man, its in her biology to get many children from different better men.

I criticized @SW15 because he always said modern relationships have a shelf life, and its true, it happened to me, my ex was a great woman to me, whether she saw me as provider or lover, I don't really care, I was getting my needs met every single second throughout the relationship, but eventually one or the other evolves and if one gets behind then he troubles start.

 

[Travel memoir21]

I think there are comments like this on the forum that remind you of many things, such as chance and luck.
You can be a "good match" and a "complete package", but if you won't be able to excite them you'll fade into the background.

That's why I keep saying that, in most cases, the most childish, instinctive, problematic, and toxic man tends to win over the mature and resilient, calm man, in the majority of cases.

not if the calm man, knows verbal judo and has great social skills

 

[jhonny9546]

eventually one of them will cheat, its in the DNA

Mature people will actually tell the partner "Hey listen, we were together for 10 beautiful years, but it's over, I feel it." The immature will cheat.

I became obsessed with the topic

So, you studied something in the end.. it would be interesting to understand your resources.

A woman when she secured a man with children, eventually she will want to fvck a better man, its in her biology to get many children from different better men.

I criticized @SW15 because he always said modern relationships have a shelf life, and its true,

True. I'm noticing it in couples of friends I know from college or those in my own social circle.
Some of their wives have been hiding their interest in me since adolescence.

After I've turned my life upside down, and am on the road to becoming a mature man, some of them have perked up and are eyeing me up.

Those relationships are already over, and the women after making sure they've made children and raised them a bit, are already fed up, and looking for something else, if the biological material is high.

It's true, I see it with my own eyes and I'm experiencing it myself.

But I also want to say, it's not for everyone! There are some who remain happy, steadfast and faithful! And that's exactly what I'm trying to study.

 

[New_Journey]

So, you studied something in the end.. it would be interesting to understand your resources.

I've listened to a few books including pook and rationale male.

The ones that I recommend a lot and who have opened my eyes on how truly relationships work are these ones:

1. Frame - Rian Stone
2. Dread - Rian Stone
3. Practical Female Psychology - David and Franco