Women and their Libido...

Scaramouche

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Dear DJ's,
The following review is about a book from a Crusading Sex Therapist well known in Australia,this women adopts a very practical,at times clinical even academic approach....I believe it to be objective and without any Hype at all....Whats in it for you?...for me as for many older DJ's nothing much, but for some of the younger Guys it illustrates the importance of selecting a Woman whose Libido matches your own and the folly settling for less....Believe me within six months a womens true colours are revealed,and her genuine or feigned interest in Svx will be revealed...So read on,I welcome your comments.....

It's a truth universally acknowledged that a married man, in possession of a good libido, must be in want of some nooky. His wife, however, is either reading Pride and Prejudice or feigning sleep.

There is a wonderful scene in the movie annie hall in which the camera switches between Woody Allen in his psychiatrist's office and his lover, Diane Keaton, in hers. They are each asked how often they have sex.

"Hardly ever," Allen says plaintively. "Maybe three times a week." "Constantly," Keaton groans. "I'd say three times a week."

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Send Bettina Arndt your questions and comments
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That's the scene that everyone remembers even 30 years after the movie was released. It touches on a great truth about relationships - that after the first lusty years are over, most men want more sex than their female partners. Of course, it's not always the case. There are passionate women who never lose interest and some men who do. But if we walked through the streets of Australia asking who's not getting enough, there'd be ever so many more male hands than female hands waving in the air.

In 2006, the BBC reported: "A woman's sex drive begins to plummet once she is in a secure relationship. Researchers from Germany found that, four years into a relationship, less than half of 30-year-old women wanted regular sex." There's still a steady stream of such stories, news reports suggesting that women go off sex. All over the world, researchers are scurrying around to try to pin down the cause. Is it to do with hormones, or brain chemistry? Is it part of an evolutionary legacy? But there's no doubt it happens, and everyone knows it. It has entered our marital folklore and become an accepted part of our personal dynamics. Hang around a pub for long enough and you'll hear the jokes about the fallout, the sexually starved men.

From the time I started working as a sex therapist back in the early 1970s, people have been talking to me about their sex lives. What I hear about most is the business of negotiating the sex supply. How do couples deal with the strain of the man wishing and hoping while all she longs for is the bliss of uninterrupted sleep? It's a night-time drama being played out in bedrooms everywhere, the source of great tension and unhappiness.

But this drama is usually a silent movie, with couples rarely talking about the subtle negotiation that goes on between them. His calculations: "What if I ...? Will she then ...?" Her tactics: dropping her book as he appears at the bedroom door and feigning sleep; staying up late in the hope that he'll doze off. Tensions. Resentment. Guilt. And then there are the rare couples who magically maintain mutual lust for each other.

To find out how couples deal with all this, I set up a research project. Through radio interviews and magazine articles, I recruited 98 couples to spend six to nine months keeping diaries for me, writing about their daily negotiations over sex. They are couples of all ages, from 20-year-old students to people in their 70s who have been married for more than 40 years - young couples at the start of their relationships; pregnant women; couples caught up in the exhaustion of young families; women who want more sex than their husbands and women who'd live happily without it; older couples dealing with health issues like prostate surgery and arthritis. Some wrote every day for months - one man ended up providing over 70 pages of details of his love-life - while others provided only brief weekly summaries. As I expected, women rationing sex took centre stage.

Women know their loss of sexual drive is a huge issue in their relationships. Many wrote saying they can't bear what it is doing to their men. They understand their resentment but they feel they can't help it; they just rarely want sex any more. "I hate it that I don't have a sex drive like before. I would do anything ... well, almost anything," wrote Nadia, 41, from Sydney.

Listen to Judy. "If there's an OFF switch in the female body, mine was turned many years ago," wrote the 58-year-old from Bathurst, NSW, explaining that sex has been the single most divisive issue in her 27-year marriage. Her husband has a strong drive and used to want sex twice a day, but hers has always been low: "I'm actually quite inhibited, and generally find sex and everything that goes with it a big yawn. [It's] right up there with algebra, housework and trying on bras!" They have fought about sex for years and she's finally persuaded him to back off a little. Now they are down to having it a few times a week. "I'd still rather read a book," she said.

Judy knows how much it hurts him that she's not interested. "The hardest thing is that he knows I don't enjoy it. It drives him to distraction. There is always a tension there, though it's never actually stopped him doing it! ... When he finishes, he's always got a kind of 'pissed off' vibe, and, believe me, I totally understand, but gosh I wish I got the same kind of understanding for where I'm at." She added, sadly: "It seems most partnerships are terribly out of sync. How nice to be in harmony with desire. Does it exist?"

Oh yes, it exists. "I have no recollection of ever being refused sex," wrote Rob, a man from Perth, married for more than 44 years. He explained that his wife Jenny's enjoyment of lovemaking has always been as fulfilling as his, and describes it as an integral part of their loving relationship.

From the time that I first started talking about sex on television and radio, the couples who really love sex have reached out to me. I remember buying a ticket at an airport when a 50-ish saleswoman looked left and right, leaned over to me and whispered, "Isn't sex wonderful!" I have long known about the lusty couples who spend a remarkable amount of their lives between the sheets. They are the lucky ones. They are rare and sadly outnumbered by the men and women who struggle, day after day, with the corrosive effect on their relationship of women's low libidos.

With my sex diaries, it was the men's stories that really set me back on my heels. It is so rare that men talk openly about such personal issues, but the diaries gave them permission to let loose. Every day I received page after page of eloquent, often immensely sad diary material, as men grasped the opportunity to talk about what quickly emerged as a mighty emotional issue for them. Men might tell jokes about sexually deprived husbands, but talk to them privately and they aren't laughing. Many feel duped, disappointed, in despair at finding themselves spending their lives begging for sex from their loved partners. They are stunned to find their needs so totally ignored. It often poured out in a howl of rage and disappointment.

Andrew from Queanbeyan, NSW, is 41 years old, has been married for six years to Lorraine, and has two girls aged four and two. The couple started off having sex every day, sometimes twice a day, but sex has been on the decline ever since. Now Andrew is lucky to have sex once every five to six months. He's a very upset man: "I am totally at a loss as to what to do. I do love her and I think she loves me but I cannot live like a monk. I am at breaking point ... What makes women think that halfway through the game they can change the rules to suit themselves and expect the male to take it? ... i just do not get it!!!!!!!"

Bettina Arndt - Edited extract from The Sex Diaries: Why Women Go Off Sex and Other Bedroom Battles by Bettina Arndt, published by Melbourne University Press on March 2 (rrp $34.95). Names have been changed throughout.

This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2009/03/03/1235842367573.html
 

pLaYtHiNg

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Funny you should post this... I just mentioned non-existant sex drives in another thread. While I am currently single I am experiencing a complete and total lack of desire, and to be honest, it's a little frightening. I had previously been a person who enjoyed sex a great deal, but in the last year and a half it's just gone south.

I'd be really interested in reading this book! Perhaps there is hope for me yet! Thanks for posting! :)
 

sodbuster

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My ex wife once stated"you'll never be able to find another woman who treats you as good as I do". I couldn't see the problem-most women want a bigger house,not to have to work, and not have sex with me. How hard is it to find a woman who will bithc at me all day?
 

ChumpNoMore

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Ah yes, women leveraging their poosey as best as possible until contracts are signed and the competition dismissed!

I recall a similar discussion arising a few years back between several of my married friends, and myself. Out at the pub for few beverages with the boys - a rare reprieve for the majority of them.

Throughout the evening, they were quite insistent that I reciprocate the attention being given to me by a young female, and while I was polite about, I was not interested as she was a bit heavy, and and had the typical young girl overbearing entitled "my poosey is gold bow down before me" attitude.

When I informed my buds that I wasn't that interested - one replied that I should hit it, as one day I would be married and be getting very little! I asked if this was the consensus among them - surely my buds were not settling for such a pathetic sexual subsistence, but and begrudgingly, they all agreed. One bud even characterizied it as "Marrying your best friend - it's just not the same as before"...

While choking back the vomit welling up in my throat after hearing him parrot such pop psyche mantra, I replied "Well, you're my best friend, and if I were to marry you - you'd better be putting out!"

They quickly changed the subject after that...
 

Rollo Tomassi

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This thread and article is an interesting contrast to this one:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=162277

and this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31452178/ns/today_relationships//

I joke about this, but only in irony, that I've yet to meet the man who's having more sex, more frequently and with more intensity than before he was married. In fact there are quite a few threads on SS created by guys who only moved into a living arrangement with a GF who complain of the same. Even the semi-celibate / virgin religious guys get to this stage after about 6 months. In July I'll have been married for 13 years, and for as good a marriage as I have, I can say that even in the best marriages, where both partners have similar sexual appetites, that this is universally the case.

I enjoy Mrs. Tomassi in bed. She still looks fantastic, she still likes to get off with me, but I can tell you now that there are times during her monthly cycle that I know when she's doing it for me and doing it because she's into it. We generally have sex between 2-3 times a week and I get a hummer or 2 on her 'red weeks' That's the natural progress of things, and even when you're single, catching a woman at the peak of her cycle is going to pay off better than when she's menstruating. This is the biology. Women invariably fail to understand what sex is like for men. We possess 17 times the amount of testosterone women do, so even at their horniest women can't begin to understand what a man's libido is like 24-7. This is exactly why I laugh at the guys who kid themselves that "women want sex as much or more than men". Bullsh!t.

Secondly is the logistics of married sex. The best man at my wedding once told me "Rollo, if you have 2 kids you may as well have 10." In this modern era, with the accountabilities and responsibilities jobs, children, family and any matter else put upon us, is it any wonder that our married interests almost always come last? I'll confess, my wife and I have often felt guilty if we didn't put off our date plans or some special time in favor of our daughter's theatre production or a gymnastics event. We have bought tickets to concerts that we never went to because of our dedication to our daughter. And she's 11 now. She's been out of diapers and pre-school and all the millions of other things we were accountable for, and like martyrs we've put things off as a couple for that investment. It hasn't been until recently that we've realized that by doing so, we are depriving our girl of understanding how a married couple should interact.

This is going to sound politically incorrect, but children should be the second priority to a good marriage. By not setting this as an example as parents you're only perpetuating this same cycle. But even in saying so women's fur pricks up. That security / provisioning entitlement sense says that being more devoted to your husband than your children is very selfish of him to expect, or even consider! How dare he suggest that! But we do a great disservice to our children when we aren't affectionate with each other in front of them. I'm constantly grabbing after Mrs. Tomassi as it is, but it's important for kids to see this as an example of a good marriage. My daughter's best friend once said "your mom and dad are always kissing" and she looked at her and wondered why that seemed odd. It wasn't until later that she figured out that her parents never did.

Lastly, women's libido drops of like a rock when competition anxiety is removed. Comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive. Even in the best of circumstance, marriage - from a sexual standpoint - is a bait & switch proposition for a man. Tom Leykis likens marriage to a loss leader advertisement, and I can certainly understand why. One of my Iron Rules of Tomassi goes into never moving into a living arrangement with a woman you have no intention of marrying in 6 months. The primary point in this is to stress that you utterly lose the frame in doing so. The moment a woman knows she is your only source for sex is the moment she begins to ration sex. Sex loses it's urgency, loses it's passion and the anxious tension that made marathon sex a necessity, and it becomes a reward. It becomes intermittent reinforcement for desired behavior - this is behaviorism 101. In any commitment you lose two valuable resources - opportunity and the ability to maneuver. There is no more binding a commitment than a monogamy where sex becomes a reinforcer for behavior.
 

lookyoung

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I disagree with this totally. If your a man in every sense of the word than woman will **** you 3 times a day every day for 50 years if you wish. Woman will put up tests of not giving you sex to see how you react . If you react to it like a chump and say its ok babe and kiss her ass than of course your going to be jerking off alot. You got to catch it early however. For Rollo its too late. The respect is lost and can never be regained.

Woman love sex just as much as we do. Its the feminist homosexual agenda that make us men think different. If a woman is not having sex when you want to have sex either she sees you as a weak man or she is a bad woman. Good woman see it as there duty to please there husbands and boyfriends.
 

Tazman

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lookyoung said:
Woman love sex just as much as we do.
They may enjoy the act as much as we do (pretty subjective there since I've never been a woman and I'm guessing the same for you), but they don't have the same "drive" for it. There's a very real and logical explanation for this:
Rollo Tomassi said:
We possess 17 times the amount of testosterone women do, so even at their horniest women can't begin to understand what a man's libido is like 24-7.
Women who produce higher than average testosterone for their gender tend to be horny more often and with greater intensity.
 

Trader

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Tazman said:
They may enjoy the act as much as we do (pretty subjective there since I've never been a woman and I'm guessing the same for you), but they don't have the same "drive" for it. There's a very real and logical explanation for this:

Women who produce higher than average testosterone for their gender tend to be horny more often and with greater intensity.
And you can tell usually tell who these *high testosterone* girls are. They usually have less feminine features, more acne, lower voice, etc

I still prefer the hyper-feminine girls - even if their sex drive is lower
 

sodbuster

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Lookyoung have you ever been married? how long? Doesn't sound like you've been there,done that.
 

MatureDJ

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I think that the best action is for the man to ask her if she would like him to procure prostitutes. That would put her in the spot of either saying, "no", in which case she would have to start putting out, or "yes", in which case the man would completely be absolved of any guilt, or "this marriage is over", in which case the man would be free. :D
 

jophil28

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Rollo Tomassi said:
This is going to sound politically incorrect, but children should be the second priority to a good marriage. By not setting this as an example as parents you're only perpetuating this same cycle.
That is one of the most potent things that you have ever written.
I have been preaching the same message for twenty years to friends whose marriage is on the rocks.
Indeed, it is politically incorrect to say such a thing, and even more disturbing (to some woman ) to hear their husband say that he expects to be her 'priority'.
However it needs to be said loudly that the marriage bond is paramount otherwise it will decay and fail.

A marriage in which the husband acts solely in the role of a breadwinnner is a poor marriage. A marriage is which a wife is creating and practising a deeper level of emotional intimacy with her child than she is with her husband is in an even worse state.

Sadly this situation is most common.
 

Scaramouche

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Dear LookYoung,
An interesting even provocative response,I do admire your attitude,but wonder what sort of sample it is based on,and how long you have cohabited with these girls?.....Bettinas study is not haphazard and is quite large.I don't think that the States is much different to Australia and know the Brits are identical...No it's for real....If you must get married then Rollos philosophy is the one for most of you to follow,it works for him...I would agree with you on one point though,"Woman will put up tests of not giving you sex to see how you react . If you react to it like a chump and say its ok babe and kiss her ass than of course your going to be jerking off a lot. You got to catch it early however."This is what happens after about 6Weeks to 6Months,your response is the only way to go,but they will lose one battle,for a while,soon they will return for what becomes constant skirmishing,sometimes Guerrilla war and ultimately a resolution,depending on what you each have to lose that means either divorce or a sexually unfulfilling relationship.....If you really love a Woman,don't move in with her,unless you are procreating,keep your relationship fresh and young,maintain that dating feeling,by living apart,when you can see that her libido does not match yours get something on the side and events will take their natural course.
 

Ballie

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Scaramouche and Rollo are spot on about not moving in. My relationship is now 6 months old and going strong. I only see her on weekends and believe me the s*x is good as we both benefit from the break.

Time will tell if this will last - but I did experience a drop off from marathon s*x during the honeymoon to absolutely nothing in the end, in my marriage.

What women don't realise is how much resentment gets build up by their selfish actions.

As a friend of mine said "When does a married man start having regular s*x?"
"When he gets divorced!"
 

jophil28

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Ballie said:
What women don't realise is how much resentment gets build up by their selfish actions.
Great point. Resentment surely is the cancer of relationships.

However I do disagree a little with your comment about women not realising.
They do realise that their husband is miserable but his feelings seem to be irrelevant to her. My experience is that even when they are told BLUNTLY that their man resents many of their actions, they (women) do absolutely nothing to resolve the problem except shame and blame the guy in whatever way that she can invent.

I have a female acquaintance who counsels couples with marriages in decline. She tells me that when she confronts the wife with the husband's grievances it is usual for the woman to refuse to attend the next session. The man then continues to seek help, but the wife decides that the marriage is now finally over and files.
 

countermart

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“Originally Posted by Rollo Tomassi
This is going to sound politically incorrect, but children should be the second priority to a good marriage. By not setting this as an example as parents you're only perpetuating this same cycle.”

I agree, great comment, ultimately placing the main focus on the children rather than the wife, husband relationship is responsible for a lot of marriage breakups, and that ends up being ultimately very detrimental to the children.

jophil28 is going to love more of my evolution stuff, but perhaps women are physiologically programmed for reduced sex drive once children come along, or once they are in a stable relationship but without children, as this would increase the chance that the man will look around for another mate and spread his genes around, thus increasing the potential for extension of the species.

Fundamentally then marriage would be biologically in error. A man made structure placed against an evolutionary necessity. In short, LTR relationships are biologically meant to fail.

I always say to my never married mates, “Children are the best contraceptive”.

Countermart
 

Channel your excited feelings into positive thoughts and behaviors. You will attract women by being enthusiastic, radiating energy, and becoming someone who is fun to be around.

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Cinamon

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Its not always the guy with a higher sex drive. A guy i dated in 2006 seemed to have a high sex drive to start with, then about 2 months in to the relationship he only wanted it a couple of times a week, where as i'd have it daily if i could. We realised this werent going to work with us.

Also, for you guys out there with GF/wifeys on the pill, i found the pill reduced my sex drive considerably, so you may wish to seek out alternative methods for birth control.
 

jophil28

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countermart jophil28 is going to love more of my evolution stuff said:
Ha ha ha ! Jophil thinks that you read too much of that bizarro stuff. That hypothesis is just plain weird - its nutty.
You need to rent a few Clint DVDs and buy some beer and have a fun night with Dirty Harry, not Darwin, as your inspiration.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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CINAMON, put an age on your profile or I'll have to delete your posts in the Mature Man's forum. Please read the forum rules.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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countermart said:
Fundamentally then marriage would be biologically in error. A man made structure placed against an evolutionary necessity. In short, LTR relationships are biologically meant to fail.
Not necessarily. There is a definite, quantifiable, biological advantage in sharing parental investment. It ensures the survival of a species, particularly one with such a long gestation and maturation period, to pair bond for a time. Granted there are very few parallels in other species for life long pair bonding, so you could make the case that human's weren't meant to stay together for as long, but the fact remains that we put all of our biological eggs in one (to 4 or 5) basket at a time.

You could also make a case for communal living as well. A few fertile females provisioned for by 2-3 alpha males. As socially offensive as that may sound, it's essentially what our polygamous ancestors did. The parental investment load was then shared amongst the community, thus, marginally, satisfying a male breeding imperative and a female nurturing imperative.
 

azanon

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Lastly, women's libido drops of like a rock when competition anxiety is removed. Comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive. Even in the best of circumstance, marriage - from a sexual standpoint - is a bait & switch proposition for a man.
Absolutely true. So if you ever want to increase her appetite, make her at least think it's possible that she could lose you. By far the best turnoff for a woman is giving her the comforting reassurance to her that you'll never leave her no matter what!
 

Do not be too easy. If you are too easy to get, she will not want you. If you are too easy to keep, she will lose interest in you. If you are too easy to control, she will not respect you.

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