Women and Accountability

[jafyk]

I know this is besides the point but why do some men and women choose to date the opposite sex who are so much older than they are? 14 yrs gap between you and her.
Sorry Jeff but I beg to differ on what you said. Her age is no excuse for her actions. Girls of her age hold down a job and show up when they are supposed to... so please give me a break. Actually Str8up I think your in actions in some ways originally enabled her to be in that situation even though she was at fault. You could've given her an ultimatum before she went out with her friends the second time.

 

[ketostix]

I do believe that 21 year old girls tend to be flaky, ADD, and need to be lead. She was in the wrong here and age is not really an excuse. Str8up, I think you play the disinterest and being a challenge and basically pulling pretty well but I think what might've been need here was more aggressive, assertiveness and pushing. She did invite you along with her friends and it sounds like you could've picked her drunk ass up the other time. I understand why you sort of tested her to keep her word and why you sort of blew her off when she didn't, but you know how it can be with these younger girls especially in the beginning. You have to lead them and strike when the iron's hot. I could be wrong but this is how the situation reads to me.

 

[jophil28]

But no matter what I said she couldn't see it and refused to take any responsibility.

I would say that something like this should not be tolerated, but unless it's a serious or chronic problem, you pretty much just have to let it be known that you disapprove of her actions (give her a strike, if you will) and move on.

I just don't understand how women can rationalize such BS.

\

Imagine that she was a junior employee of yours and she screwed up an account by delivering a poor quality service to a client by showing up late to meetings, not returning his calls and generally being unreliable.
How do you think she would react if you carpeted her about THAT behavior ?
Do you think that she would wiggle sideways, shift blame onto the client or a co-worker and give you a lot of attitude? No?

The difference is that as an employee she wants her paycheck more that she wants to argue with the boss so she will (albeit reluctantly) admit her f*kups and hope that she still has a job.
Jobs are a lot harder to get ...guys are easily replaceable..most guys will tolerate women's BS for a whiff of pvssy. Guys will give them second, third and forth chances and so on ...

That is why women act like they do. They abuse their perception of power that comes from being in demand and THAT, gentlemen, is what we are dealing with..

The only effective strategy to counter this is to elevate your VALUE to her to the extent that she will not risk losing you . THat is why her HIGH IL in you is essential.

The GURU says it all more eloquently that I can.

 

[slamthedoor]

It never ceases to amaze me how a woman can be TOTALLY and OBVIOUSLY wrong, yet she will find a way to make it someone else's fault.

The correct statement is in my signature but I'll paraphrase it here; women are like men except without reason and accountability.

A Don Juan considers it as an axiom that a woman is unaccountable for her actions. Women are not men and do not reason the way that men do. Sometimes, legally or in the business world, women can be made to be act accountable for their actions. But in relationships between men and women, don't expect accountability from a woman.

It's really a wonderful gift that they have and is one of the few advantages that women have within our male dominated society. They're not going to give this up. They celebrate it, just like in Shania Twain's song "Man! I Feel Like A Woman!" Lack of accountability may as well be in their DNA. They won't change or grow out of it.

On the rare case where you witness a woman appear to accept responsibility for something, consider it an accident. Generally, women do not do that and have no reason to do that. Occasionally you might wish to find a good woman who reasons like a man and takes responsibilities for her actions like a man would, but those women don't exist. They're like unicorns; I've heard about them but have never seen one myself.

As a Don Juan, accept the axiom and use it to your advantage. Don't resent your woman for lacking the ability to be accountable. Learn to appreciate it.

 

[STR8UP]

As a Don Juan, accept the axiom and use it to your advantage. Don't resent your woman for lacking the ability to be accountable. Learn to appreciate it.

I very much agree with your post. The question is, how do you go about dealing with these issues when they aren't extremely serious in nature, but SHOULD be addressed in some way, nonetheless.

I feel that if I had taken no action and pretended nothing was wrong it sets a precedent that allows future poor behavior. However, if I get my panties in a wad and throw a fit, it doesn't matter how right I am i just look like an insecure pu$$y.

So the question is, when a woman does something wrong, how do you go about letting her know your disapproval without shooting yourself in the foot.

This chick KNEW she was wrong. Once she did get ahold of me and i told her to get her own ride if she wanted to talk to me she was on my doorstep in a flash wanting to "talk about it". She didn't want to admit fault, but she knew she had done something that I disapproved of.

She asked me "Are you mad at me?" My response was "I'm not mad, but I am disappointed". This doesn't seem to work any better because it still puts her in a position where she has to defend herself, and women hate that.

She kept saying "I REALLY don't like it when I feel like I have to answer to someone or justify myself!" I felt like saying "Well if you FUKK up you DO have to answer to someone!" but again, it wasn't in my best interest to go there.

I suppose it's all about dealing with it without losing your cool, giving her at least a slight indication of your disapproval (such as removing your attention for a period of time) and tallying up the strikes to know when it's time to cut her loose. In retrospect in my situation I should have ignored her attempts to contact me that night (I could very well have been asleep), and when she texted me the next day I could have made it known ina passive-aggressive way that what she did wasn't cool. She could have asked me ten times if I was pissed and I would have smiled and said "no", but there are plenty of ways to communicate to her that she fukked up without having to come out and say it.

I guess the key is to switching to covert communication. Open your big yap and throw a fit like a little kid and you lose points in her eyes. Use your jedi mind tricks and she will get the point and at the same time you will GAIN points.

Now that I think about it I should have gotten back to her the next day and told her that I was going to do something with some other friends and that we would try to hook up later that night. That would have sent a powerful message, since she was expecting for us to hang out that day. By me smiling and telling her to go have fun with her friends while I go do something else she would get the picture and couldn't say a damn thing about it cause she would know she had done the same thing the night before.

 

[Jeffst1980]

I think it might be beneficial to go back to the point keto made about how young girls really need to be led.

STR8UP was put in a lose-lose situation when his girl's friend invited them out. If he had told them he didn't her want to go, he would've come off as controlling. However, by not speaking up, he allowed the situation that we have here to transpire.

How, then, do you avoid this trap??

I think the answer lies in careful planning. It sounds to me like her best friend is the female equivalent of the AMOG--she calls the shots, and her friends just go along with her. That's fine, but it doesn't do you any favors, STR8UP. You let her call the shots because you didn't have an aggressive game plan for the weekend from the getgo (not that I blame you--it was supposed to be just you and your girl, after all).

With young girls of the "Ooh! A Shiny Thing!" generation, you can't even allow for the possibility of flaking, lest you be flaked on. You have to literally plan every minute of your time with these girls if you want to compete with their best friends. The only way you could've avoided this trap was if YOU made plans to bring her to a concert, or brought the whole group to a party, or, better yet, brought her somewhere where her best friend was out of the picture. If you passively allow your girl's friends to make plans for her, you're going to find yourself shut out, even if not deliberately.

Because she's away at school, she is going to want to see all her friends EVERY TIME she's at home. This is how girls that age think. You are going to need to beat her friends to the punch and make some airtight plans with her ahead of time--none of this "maybe we can meet up later" nonsense. These "friends" of hers are actually your enemies.

It sucks to have to put that much effort into a plate, but it doesn't hurt to get in the habit of not slacking off in this sort of thing until the ability to lead interactions becomes natural. It doesn't get any more difficult than trying to lead a bunch of barely-drinking-aged girls on break from college!

 

[STR8UP]

I think it might be beneficial to go back to the point keto made about how young girls really need to be led.

I believe that ALL women need to be led. I just think that the younger generation has to be directed even more due to their loose concept of time and making and keeping plans.

STR8UP was put in a lose-lose situation when his girl's friend invited them out. If he had told them he didn't her want to go, he would've come off as controlling. However, by not speaking up, he allowed the situation that we have here to transpire.

The funny thing is, after the fact when I explained to her that it wasn't cool to have changed plans in the first place (after listening to the whole "well what did you want me to do I was stuck and I wasn't driving" bit), I told her that when I first heard her friend bring it up I was pretty surprised that she would have done something like that to me. She then said "Well why didn't you say something about it? If you did I wouldn't have even gone with them!"

It was almost as if she was telling me that I should have put my foot down up front, but I know that's treading dangerous waters. I've known her for a long time but I don't know her well enough to know how she would have reacted if I would have set her straight right then and there. Some women would be turned on by a man who calls them out like that, and some would be turned off because you are "possessive and controlling".

I think the answer lies in careful planning. It sounds to me like her best friend is the female equivalent of the AMOG--she calls the shots, and her friends just go along with her. That's fine, but it doesn't do you any favors, STR8UP. You let her call the shots because you didn't have an aggressive game plan for the weekend from the getgo (not that I blame you--it was supposed to be just you and your girl, after all).

For the record....her best friend and I get along well and I actually met the 22 yr old through her. I have even messed around with the best friend in the past and we still hang out (mainly in a group setting) to this day even when 22yo isn't around. She wasn't trying to c0ckblock me or anything.

With young girls of the "Ooh! A Shiny Thing!" generation,

So funny cause it's sooooo true!

Because she's away at school, she is going to want to see all her friends EVERY TIME she's at home. This is how girls that age think. You are going to need to beat her friends to the punch and make some airtight plans with her ahead of time--none of this "maybe we can meet up later" nonsense. These "friends" of hers are actually your enemies.

I actually had no problem with her hanging with her friends. They are all my friends too, actually. The problem only came when I was left hanging.

It sucks to have to put that much effort into a plate, but it doesn't hurt to get in the habit of not slacking off in this sort of thing until the ability to lead interactions becomes natural. It doesn't get any more difficult than trying to lead a bunch of barely-drinking-aged girls on break from college!

If all goes as planned this will actually be a fairly low maintenance plate, as I will only be seeing her once a month or so. That's why I'm kind of willing to put up with a little more up front cause if I can get it rolling it will be a pretty good situation for me.

 

[Da Realist]

I don't see why this is such a shock to anyone. Men are the leaders We protect and build civilization. Women live in it and nurture it. If things fall apart, whose to blame when we make the rules? Think about: Greeks thought Atlas held the world on his shoulders while a woman controled the seasons. I say don't expect them to take resposiblity for much; it's your's to choose the right woman so things run smoothly.

 

[STR8UP]

I was watching this Ralphie May comedy show last night, and he was talking about how when you're married "you can either be right or be happy", but not both. I was cracking up cause it directly relates to this topic. Good comedians are excellent students of human nature.

I have to be honest here with you STR8UP, I think not making her own up to it is coddling her.

If she knows she was wrong, that is all you need.....she doesn't need to admit it. It still puts you in the position of saying "I like you a lot, but one thing I don't tolerate is disrespect. We had plans and you abandoned them. Don't ever do that again."

The higher a woman's interest level, the more likely this is to work.

We have had this argument in the past about calling a woman out on bad behavior, and i think it comes down to dealing with it on an individual basis. In this case I think I could have handled it a LITTLE differently, but a flat out statement like that might not have been the best way to go.

Sometimes it's best to simply withdraw your attention for a period of time.

Sometimes it's best to resort to covert communication to let her know that her actions can have consequences.

Sometimes it's best to call her out directly, as you pointed out.

Unfortunately one size does not fit all when it comes to dealing with poor behavior from women.

 

[Tazman]

Unfortunately one size does not fit all when it comes to dealing with poor behavior from women.

You'd be surprised man. You may have to "tweak" certain things based on unique situations but the basic concepts seem to always apply.

Disrespect is definitely something that shouldn't be tolerated but the way you confront someone you believe has done this to you depends on the offense and the outcome you desire.

If the disrespect is something like stealing from you, cursing you out, hitting you, etc....that would require an immediate confrontation where you let her know in no uncertain terms that you will not tolerate that ****. You do this because these aren't bendable rules, they're absolutes that you aren't willing to sacrifice for p-ssy. You can walk away completely.

If it's something like standing you up or ignoring/changing date plans with you, you don't consider them "serious" and you'd like to continue sexing the chick, you cannot use shaming tactics or outward confrontations because it puts a damper on "desire", these are the times you have to use "covert" means.

She has to believe that when she isn't around you are never waiting for her because you have "options". When she changes plans with you it doesn't matter because you've always got something else going on and it shows because they don't detect even a hint of frustration from you. However, when they know you're upset it's a strong indication of how much you need them and it reinforces the behavior that led to it.

Human Beings are efficient in that way, when you know you can get away with something you usually continue doing whatever that something is. The more attractive the woman the more expendable guys become.

Her behavior is pretty typical of a woman with low to medium interest and you have to treat it that way. You can't "expect" anything from a woman in this category, not even common courtesy.

 

[iqqi]

Just to be STR8, lol, this is the 22 year old who would drop everything to run and be with you... right??? LMAO. I hate to say I told you so, sike no I don't.

Anyways yes this thread has been done before, and the answer is still the same, that certain PEOPLE lack accountability, it has nothing to do with gender, unless of course you are trying to justify one person's action with their entire gender's fault. Unfortunately for that scenario, it isn't true that all women lack accountability. As a matter of fact in this situation I'd say that it's not even a matter of accountability, it's a matter of low interest.

Sorry sweets, but the 22 year old just isn't that into you.

Time to stop blaming all women for the faults of the ones you have been picking, and time to acknowledge the fact Miss Tight and Twenty is not your shining membership card into the 20's realm. You are a grown man, and you should stop trying to blame an entire half of the population for your choices. Lots of people flake, it has to do with low interest and fear of being a b!tch so they lie. If you value a person who is honest over taking the easy way out, then start looking for that person and leave the pretty faces but shallow cases by the way side. And you might have to be that yourself. I dunno.

 

[ketostix]

Just to be STR8, lol, this is the 22 year old who would drop everything to run and be with you... right??? LMAO. I hate to say I told you so, sike no I don't.

Anyways yes this thread has been done before, and the answer is still the same, that certain PEOPLE lack accountability, it has nothing to do with gender, unless of course you are trying to justify one person's action with their entire gender's fault. Unfortunately for that scenario, it isn't true that all women lack accountability. As a matter of fact in this situation I'd say that it's not even a matter of accountability, it's a matter of low interest.

Sorry sweets, but the 22 year old just isn't that into you.

Time to stop blaming all women for the faults of the ones you have been picking, and time to acknowledge the fact Miss Tight and Twenty is not your shining membership card into the 20's realm. You are a grown man, and you should stop trying to blame an entire half of the population for your choices. Lots of people flake, it has to do with low interest and fear of being a b!tch so they lie. If you value a person who is honest over taking the easy way out, then start looking for that person and leave the pretty faces but shallow cases by the way side. And you might have to be that yourself. I dunno.

Women, especially young and attractive ones, in the beginning still play games and lack accountability even if they have a reasonable level of interest in the guy. You've admited yourself that you play games even with a guy you are in to. It's a myth to say women who have a high enough interest level or are of adequate "quality" are always accountable and never test and play games. If you find a girl like that more than likely it's a simple matter of her being much lower value than the guy.

 

[STR8UP]

Typical iqqi response. Accuse me of "blaming" women for something instead of addressing the topic (which other posters overwhelmingly agree to be TRUE).

Yes, people in general lack accountability, but for women it's basically an inherent trait. Women are only "sorry" when they realize that it will adversely effect them in some way, NOT when they can see that they have wronged someone.

For the record, I will concede that her interest level isn't what it was in the past. We have established that. However, she still says she wants a relationship with me, she is still making plans to come up for my birthday, still wants me to come see her when she gets settled into school, etc., so it ISN'T a dead deal. I know all of this can change overnight, and I've been around enough to know that it is what it is.

Women, especially young and attractive ones, in the beginning still play games and lack accountability even if they have a reasonable level of interest in the guy.

I should also add that this girl had some baby fat when I first met her. She gained some more weight for a while, then she completely turned herself around, lost is all, and now she's a hottie who is in high demand.

This no doubt plays a role in her perception of her own value and how it effects the way she can carry herself and what she can get away with.