Will a woman date a man that makes less than she does?

[ka_mate]

Sure, but she'll never respect him. Because she won't make enough for them to be comforable and she'll dream ofa better life. Is she going to work harder for more money? Or look for a better man.

Game is absolutely not #1.

You don't even get to play to begin with if you don't pass 100 tests she'll put you through.

You can't smooth talk your way out of the fact you're unemployed. She will figure it out. You can't game your way out of the fact you were a virgin until age 27. She'll figure it out. You can only game your way into getting an audition, and maybe prolonging a breakup.

Having a career that you love is #1. Being a leader among men, or better yet a leader among leaders. That gives you the true confidence to approach a woman the way a traffic cop approaches someone they pull over.

Unless a guy is in the 99% of looks (meaning the hottest 1%) he won't be a sugar baby but for a 65 year old woman. One of the worst things a man can do is date a woman who makes more than him. His salary is his ceiling.

I completely disagree with this. For example, if you had a girl whose older brother died from using illegal drugs that had much stronger effects than the dealer told him about and it caused her a lot of pain to see his death. If she earns $60,000 a year who out of the two following guys will she respect more

1. A drug dealer earning $100,000
2. A man working with drug addicts to overcome their addictions earning $50,000 a year

Would a girl respect a guy who would be the kind of person involved heavily in her brothers death simply because he makes more money? I don't believe she would at all

This is only one example, sure. Yet, there would be thousands others out there.

Money isn't the be all and end all and I think you place too much importance on material possessions.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

I completely disagree with this. For example, if you had a girl whose older brother died from using illegal drugs that had much stronger effects than the dealer told him about and it caused her a lot of pain to see his death. If she earns $60,000 a year who out of the two following guys will she respect more

1. A drug dealer earning $100,000
2. A man working with drug addicts to overcome their addictions earning $50,000 a year

Would a girl respect a guy who would be the kind of person involved heavily in her brothers death simply because he makes more money? I don't believe she would at all

This is only one example, sure. Yet, there would be thousands others out there.

Money isn't the be all and end all and I think you place too much importance on material possessions.

It has been shown over and over and over that most of sexuality and communication is nonverbal. There is a reason they call "love" the universal language. Game? :crackup: .

A girl has decided if she wants you before you even open your mouth. Sociological research all point to this conclusion.

Where is your god now?

 

[ka_mate]

It has been shown over and over and over that most of sexuality and communication is nonverbal. There is a reason they call "love" the universal language. Game? :crackup: .

A girl has decided if she wants you before you even open your mouth. Sociological research all point to this conclusion.

Where is your god now?

God's off having a coffee and a smoke (clouds are really the remnants of God's smoko's)

I'm interested in this sociological research studies that have found this. Could you please give me the names/authors or links to these articles so that I may educate myself.

I wasn't explicitly referring to 'game' but more over values and beliefs.

For example, if you had a women who held diametrically opposing beliefs to your own and you flaunted your beliefs I doubt she would be interested in you.

If a girl has decided that she wants you before we open our mouths. How come it is that some guys go out on one or two dates with a girl and then she flakes?

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

And guys stop pulling the "but, but, but he's not attractive and HE has a good looking girl".

Nobody cares about who YOU find physically attractive. It is what SHE finds physically attractive. How do you know it was "game" that attracted her and not physical attraction? Some women like being with a bigger guy, even if he's not big in a muscular way. It is still seen as "protection". The same girl could see a tall cut, but skinny guy and not be physically attracted, yet YOU would think he's a good looking guy.

I have also seen girls with severe tall fetishes who would date a guy with a pretty brutal face just because he is 6'2. Most people would say that he is ugly, but SHE finds him physically attractive and that's what matters in analyzing the situation.

Again, it is all about what SHE finds physically attractive, NOT you! You're not dating him. You're not married to him. SHE is.

The bottom line is that a girl needs to find you physically attractive (whatever her taste may be) before anything else is of relevance.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

God's off having a coffee and a smoke (clouds are really the remnants of God's smoko's)

I'm interested in this sociological research studies that have found this. Could you please give me the names/authors or links to these articles so that I may educate myself.

I wasn't explicitly referring to 'game' but more over values and beliefs.

For example, if you had a women who held diametrically opposing beliefs to your own and you flaunted your beliefs I doubt she would be interested in you.

If a girl has decided that she wants you before we open our mouths. How come it is that some guys go out on one or two dates with a girl and then she flakes?

Here is a start. Just google body language mirroring. You will find information about how people naturally mirror body language when they are comfortable with you or attracted to you. No game required. No verbal communication. Her body opens up to you when she likes you. Shoulders turned more square to you. Feet pointing in your direction. This behaviour is a natural instinct. She is "inviting". Forget the hair twirling, that is cliche and never been proven in any study.

Go watch the video "short and male" (http://vimeo.com/6780321). Pay attention to the 20 minute mark. They have a line up of men, some short, some tall. They ask them who they find more attractive. Huge surprise here, the women all picked the guys 6'0 and above.

Tell me, what game could one of the short guys use that would even make the slightest difference since the woman has ALREADY discounted them as potential partners before even speaking? One of the short men in that lineup could spit the sickest game you've ever heard at the women; you think they'd care?

They would say "well nice meeting you", shake his hand and go over to Mr. 6'2 and say "well hello there stud..." :crackup:

That's what I mean and although informal and not really scientific, the lineup just goes to show that women judge your potential as a partner from a DISTANCE without any verbal cue.

EDIT: I can also speak from experience on the video's point. I went to a speed dating even 3 years ago. There was a mid-session break where everyone would just mingle. There was a really tall guy there. Somewhere between 6'1 - 6'3. The average guy there was around 5'8-5'9. What a huge surprise, there were 5-6 girls (nearly half of the girls) hovering around him fighting to talk to him. Game? What game?

 

[bigneil]

I completely disagree with this. For example, if you had a girl whose older brother died from using illegal drugs that had much stronger effects than the dealer told him about and it caused her a lot of pain to see his death. If she earns $60,000 a year.... and (her guy is) drug dealer earning $100,000

That's a terrible argument and you're comparing apples and oranges.

Gee, what if doctors killed her whole family and she had to choose between a doctor and a pharmacist making $5K less? We're not talking about individual circumstances, we're generalizing. We are assuming the jobs are legitimate and either both legal or both illegal (a hooker making $100K won't date a pot dealer making $50K).

The only exception to every rule is: There's an exception to every rule.

And guys stop pulling the "but, but, but he's not attractive and HE has a good looking girl".

My point exactly. Many guys actually base their expectations on logic such as: "It's possible, I saw a fat ugly guy with a hot chick just last night!" Don't strive to be that guy! This is like women who say "I know the right guy is out there... Carrie on Sex and the City finally found a hot one...." And don't forget many of those guys are Sugar Daddy's.

 

[ka_mate]

For anyone clicking the link above. Remove the ) at the end otherwise the video will not work

I watched from 20 minutes onwards (my internet is dicey so I just watched the bit that you mentioned)

"Height is a growth industry in China" I see what you did there commentator on the documentary. Dude thanks for linking this definitely an interesting watch

I even did one of those IAT tests, I don't believe there is one on height so I ended up doing one on Romney and Obama (not much use seeing as I'm not American).

Those height extending surgeries sound insane. I'm not sure whether I agree with the procedure. Because certainly by making someone taller you remove their worries about being short but they then contribute and implicitly put pressure on other members of society to be tall. I don't believe that this is a desirable situation. If everyone want to be tall and this type of surgery becomes commonplace then people unable to afford the surgery will stand out even more and it will become more of a problem. Plus, they sound like a terrible procedure to go through.

Humans are a flawed species in that not only are we each not perfect but that we discriminate and condemn others for not being perfect and being different from us.

We will never be perfect and I think that endevours to make our selves perfect are ultimately futile. I kind of like the buddhist idea of 'contentness' and accepting what you have and being content with it. Still, this is still something that is difficult to solve. And being content doesn't really help guys who feel they are struggling with the ladies because of their height.


Woops, went off on a tangent there

So Tilltheendoftime you agree with me in saying that how much a man earns is not the sole determinate of whether a women will date him. You're saying that a great deal of attraction is physical and automatic.

Do you define game as only verbal?

My definition of 'game' is the whole set of interpersonal skills

Including body language, mirroring and matching, verbal (selection of words, tone, pitch, pace, volume), facial expression, eye contact, proximity and any other interpersonal skills.

 

[Zerro]

Yes they will, I've seen it firsthand. There was this chick who graduated college with me, hot girl with a degree in engineering and she went on to date a dude with a degree in sociology who had to share a house with 4 other people just to afford rent. Around the time I stopped talking to her she got a job a few states away and he dropped everything to move there with her right away, which was pretty damn beta in my opinion especially as they'd only been dating for a few months by that point. From what I had seen he was pretty damn whipped and she was still acting like a party girl even then. When the move was announced several of us were taking bets on how long before he came back with his tail between his legs, never found out since I've abandoned that social circle.

And I agree that women with money tend to be pretty damn insecure as they know that it makes them less desirable to most men unless they find a man who makes even more than she does. The girls in my field I've dated were more successful yet still had less self-esteem than the girls who worked in service and retail industries because of this.

 

[J Roc]

Game trumps all. Yes.

Very True!

 

[floydb25]

And guys stop pulling the "but, but, but he's not attractive and HE has a good looking girl".

Nobody cares about who YOU find physically attractive. It is what SHE finds physically attractive. How do you know it was "game" that attracted her and not physical attraction? Some women like being with a bigger guy, even if he's not big in a muscular way. It is still seen as "protection". The same girl could see a tall cut, but skinny guy and not be physically attracted, yet YOU would think he's a good looking guy.

I have also seen girls with severe tall fetishes who would date a guy with a pretty brutal face just because he is 6'2. Most people would say that he is ugly, but SHE finds him physically attractive and that's what matters in analyzing the situation.

Again, it is all about what SHE finds physically attractive, NOT you! You're not dating him. You're not married to him. SHE is.

The bottom line is that a girl needs to find you physically attractive (whatever her taste may be) before anything else is of relevance.

****ing THIS. Guys think they know what women find physically attractive, and are always comparing themselves to other guys. But, it always comes back to themselves vs everyone else. They're the studs, and everyone else is ugly or a douche bag. It's not a fair critique - its a shallow, biased, ego-driven comparison. Not to mention, they're not planning on dating any men, so how the **** would they know? But, people tend to think they know everything. They KNOW what good looking guys look like, and no one other than them is one. What a joke.

With all the ego and hating involved - they end up deluding themselves, and come up with excuses for why she would go with such and such - when he's oh so ugly - while their "sexy" selves get no play. It must be the car, or his money, or blah blah. They're always the best thing around, can get anyone they want (while making up excuses for not getting ****), are better than everyone else; women are just stupid and have no standards, they love douche bags; etc.

The competition and stubborness among males is fierce. Everyone is a douche bag except for them. This is especially true among people who get absolutely nothing. Their ego won't accept that they're not attractive, and other people are. Thus, they hate and criticize - literally AS these other guys are getting action. As well, they want to be above them.

For the amount of guys who said I was ugly - there was 10x as many girls who said, suggested, and showed the opposite. It's not until they actually see you being successful with good-looking women that they change their minds. And, even then, they'll still hate out of envy - while denying it. Or, they'll wonder what she sees in him, because THEY don't think he's attractive - when their opinion on the matter means **** all, and they're mostly doing it out of jealousy (which they deny, and claim there's nothing to be jealous of). So, who cares? They clearly don't know ****, and shouldn't be talking or giving advice or making any kind of claims. They see only what they want to see, and are constantly comparing themselves to other guys (in a negative way for the competition). **** them, and their unimportant opinions. Let them be stubborn and stupid.

Above all, these guys who actually have women, or are found attractive by them, probably aren't planning on dating any men, so **** what other guys think. They don't know anything, and aren't the royal judge of ****. They only think their opinion matters, and that they speak for everyone. Most of them just sit on the sidelines and criticize others - due to being losers, of course.

For myself, they can keep saying I'm so ugly - while girls are around me, and not them. Boo hoo. I wish those guys would just accept me. Maybe then I'd be successful. Oh ****... I already am, and they aren't. Ha ha ha! :kick:

 

[Ihateinitiatingalot7]

and i work at a grocery store, i guess it is possible

 

[Plutoman]

Edit: I should remember dates. Hate responding to bumped threads unless there's good reason.