Wife treats me like dog sh*t. How can I turn this around?

8ball

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Just a quick word on the AFC behavior:

If there were no kids in the equation, I would have left this woman years ago. In a heartbeat without a second thought.

However, leaving her affects the lives of my two sons forever. It's not a decision to be taken lightly. I leave, she has to work, I have to work, and my two sons are basically raised in day care.

It is not a prosepect I relish. I kiss her a** because it's better than fighting in front of the kids, and at least the kids are exposed to some semblance of normalcy.

AFC tips don't always directly apply to a woman you've lived with for 8 years and that you've had two kids with. There is no "mystery". She's got you dialed in at that point. There aren't many games left to play.

Except, maybe the "takeaway", which has been mentioned earlier. I greatly appreciate all the advice here. My game plan at this point is to grow some balls, stop kissing ass, stop giving all the compliments, and pursue self-improvment.

If that doesn't turn things around by the time I get out of debt, well....
 

Rollo Tomassi

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8BALL, first off, don't consider counseling. That's going to sound a bit contradictory coming from me since I do counseling as part of my post grad work, but I've seen many men in exactly your position and counseling is really last stop before toll. First off, it sounds like you can't afford it both time and moneywise, plus you'd have to regularly find childcare while you go and this only stresses her out while she's there. Secondly, you've already adequitely identified the problem, the next step is to initiate a change.

Remember, you will only get what you've gotten if you keep doing what you've done. The change has to come from you, you can't control her behavior, but you can prompt her by altering your own. As I stated before, start a takeaway, but do so in gradual steps. If you jump off the deep end immediately and turn off to her all at once she'll see it as a power grab and she'll recoil and hunker down to wait you out. When you incrementally pull back and stop doing what you've done to kiss her ass for so long, it will have a building effect. You want that anxiety to build for her rather than have it dumped on her at once. Women are much more susceptible to COVERT communication and sub-communications - Yes, especially your wife of 8+ years, she knows what to expect of you, so it works that much more effectively when you incrementally cease your prior behavior. Also bear in mind that you want to reinforce desired behavior, when she does become affectionate, reward it. The takeaway is behaviorism 101, reinforce desired behavior and/or do not reinforce, or punish, undesired behavior. You have to become the PRIZE again. Your attention must become valuable to her. Elements of an effective takeaway strategy:

Intitae it covertly, never overtly.
Create value through scarcity.
Communicate, but always say less than is necessary.
Stay in business mode - be matter of fact - never allow yourself to be perceived as sulking.
Conceal your intentions.
Reinforce desired behaviors, remove the reward for undesired behavior.
Make her come to you - anxiety is good for her and puts you back into a positive masculine role.
Make her dependent on you for her own affirmation once your attention becomes valuable to her again.


Re-create yourself and remake your identity and become someone who she has genuine desire for. I understand that a lot of this will be hard to swallow since it will seem counterintuitive to getting what you want, but it's really for the best - even if you do divorce her at the end of it all, you'll be on better self-confidence footing when you do go out with other girls later. You're not getting any less sex or respect than you are now by starting a takeaway.

Also, get in the gym and transform your body NOW. Nothing will send a message quicker than simutaneously looking better and intiating a takeaway. This is one of the most blatant, tell-tale signs that a partner is preparing to leave the other. Women do this all the time, they hit the gym like animals because they've already decided to eject from the relationship. They'll of course deny it to the grave, but the behavior belies the intent after the fact. That might seem hard to do with your work/family schedule, but find a way. Go at 5am if you have to.


Now, all that said, if it turns out she's too far gone and you have no other recourse but to divorce, prepare yourself for that too. Go see a lawyer well BEFORE you draw up papers. A little bit of preparation 6 months to a year before a divorce will save you all kinds of personal and financial woes later. There are divorce attorneys who specialize in exactly this kind of planning. Divorces are expensive so don't jump out with your pants down.

From a personal standpoint, you mentioned 2 reasons for staying in the marriage; your kids and your debt. First, bear in mind that you are far more likely to incur more debt married than you will divorced. Things come up all the time that will forestall you becoming debt free, kids get sick, cars breakdown, the house needs a new roof, etc. You being in debt single will limit the occurances of more debt. You can argue child support as well, but you're essentially paying that now. You and your wife are already divorced from a relationship standard, and are sharing custody of your kids, you just happen to co-habitate together for financial reasons.

As far as your sons are concerned, yes, raising them in a two parent family is ideal. Raising them under the conditions of her setting and controlling the frame for you in your home is detrimental to their understanding of gender roles however. I've seen countless men stay in a miserable marriage "for the kids", but it only contributes to these kids having skewed understandings of gender role. You are setting the understanding for your sons of how a man behaves and thinks, and likewise your wife is creating the role of how women are. Is this the understanding you'd like them to go through life holding to? If you do stay together for your kids, do something different NOW. The first 5-7 years of a kid's life develop ideals and understandings more than you can imagine.
 

penkitten

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8ball said:
Hey gang...it's been awhile.

My wife shows absolutely zero affection or interest. She initiates no contact, hasn't kissed me in years, doesn't touch me, say "I love you". When I go to hug her, she stiffens up and looks away.

I have to always ASK for sex. And it's in the dark, missionary only, and she doesn't kiss or even put her arms around me.

She gives me zero respect and shows zero appreciation for anything I do for her. I am always, always praising her.

I kiss her ass, constantly compliment her, and try to put an upbeat spin on things, but this is wearing me down. I would leave her, but it is just not financially feasible at this point. I have to stay for the time being.

Yeah...I know I'm being AFC. What steps do I need to take to get her attracted or interested?

I need a good kick in the ass here. Can you guys set me straight?

dude, stop kissing her butt for starters.
something in your relationship has died off or is dying off .
stop begging her for sex and act like you could live without it .
then she will feel like she needs more attention and would be more willing to offer more of herself.
 

SELF-MASTERY

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penkitten said:
dude, stop kissing her butt for starters.
something in your relationship has died off or is dying off .
stop begging her for sex and act like you could live without it .
then she will feel like she needs more attention and would be more willing to offer more of herself.
That's how GIO keeps you in check:rock: ?
 

You essentially upped your VALUE in her eyes by showing her that, if she wants you, she has to at times do things that you like to do. You are SOMETHING after all. You are NOT FREE. If she wants to hang with you, it's going to cost her something — time, effort, money.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

ElChoclo

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8Ball, "the kids come first" is the cop out pus*y line used by every wimp who ever reproduced. Trust me on this, it is normal to rationalize bad judgment errors with this kind of socially acceptable, feel good theory. Then you dish up the "divorced but happy parents" better for the kids than "married but unhappy" theory. All quite primitive as a scenario analysis.

If you want the truth, kids unfortunately get to be unhappy whether the parents are together or divorced, just different types of unhappiness. Once the O ring fails on the booster rocket the mission has failed, and the astronauts are toasted. They won't be much happier with you divorced than married.

You have probably failed to work out the economic side of the equation. If I said "I'm saving up to get divorced" it would sound stupid. Just like it would if I said "I'm saving up to cover my funeral expenses".

A man's role in society is intricately related to his monetary life. But, sometimes even Spartacus has to revolt. Do you think your wife lies around thinking about how she will pay for your kids. No probably only you do.

Sometimes having nothing is better than having very little.
 

dietzcoi

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Damn I wish I had this site back when I was in 8Ball's situation. I did it all wrong and dragged it out "for the kids"

Trust me, big mistake. In the end it makes it all worse.

Rollo T is right, counseling is just another tool to drag out a situation which is already past repair.

Seems to me your marriage is over. You just do not want to admit to yourself as I did not want to admit it.

The day my divorce was final was the best day of my life. It will be for you too. Start getting ready now... do not delay!

Dietzcoi
 

Latinoman

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8ball said:
Just a quick word on the AFC behavior:



However, leaving her affects the lives of my two sons forever. It's not a decision to be taken lightly. I leave, she has to work, I have to work, and my two sons are basically raised in day care.
No wonder she has no respect for you.

"raised" by daycare? Daycare raises NO one. YOU and she does. What daycare does is watch them while you two go to work. No different than they going to school.

What you have to do is make sure you find the right day care. One that has cool activities. Heck, they might develop some social skills and interactions, instead of delevoping lack of respect for their dad. And trust me...in the future they will talk about how WEAK their dad was. They won't even pay attention to your advice in the future.

I have two teenagers. Both went through the day care system. Both are doing GREAT in real life (Honor students, no sex, no drugs, no alcohol, very high social skills, etc.). Strong kids (girl and boy). Took the divorce very well, considering the situation. I prepared them.

The thing is, I personally believe that you are doing them more wrong by exposing them to the situation at your home.

Do you prefer having your two boys develping ZERO respect for YOU (their dad)? Now, THAT's a tragedy!

I rather have my kids in day care and earn their respect in the process.


AFC tips don't always directly apply to a woman you've lived with for 8 years and that you've had two kids with. There is no "mystery". She's got you dialed in at that point. There aren't many games left to play.
I was married for OVER 10...and have two kids. Yes, you can be a DJ. If you became an AFC and has been for the last 8 years...rest assure that the respect is gone. It will, in fact, take an act of God for her to gain that respect. Would not surprise me if she gains it once you dump her disrespectful butt. By then, it would be too late...for her.

My game plan at this point is to grow some balls, stop kissing ass, stop giving all the compliments, and pursue self-improvment.
And if that doesn't work...?

If that doesn't turn things around by the time I get out of debt, well....
Dude...start making her go to work. Do that NOW. You will regret it if you don't do it. Pick a great daycare with great activities...one that looks like a "summer camp" type.
 

Luveno

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Also, get in the gym and transform your body NOW. Nothing will send a message quicker than simutaneously looking better and intiating a takeaway. This is one of the most blatant, tell-tale signs that a partner is preparing to leave the other. Women do this all the time, they hit the gym like animals because they've already decided to eject from the relationship. They'll of course deny it to the grave, but the behavior belies the intent after the fact. That might seem hard to do with your work/family schedule, but find a way. Go at 5am if you have to.
Excellent advice, this right here is.
 

Freddy1

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Make an escape plan if you have to. Get your finances in order and have cash hidden away.
Theres a book I think its called: "Screw The B*tch". It gives helpful advice on escaping and covering your assests etc.
 

If you want to talk, talk to your friends. If you want a girl to like you, listen to her, ask questions, and act like you are on the edge of your seat.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Latinoman

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FrancoPUA said:
BYTE her neck.

Seriously. If she treats you like a "Dog" then she should not be surprised if you byte.

Go behind her, byte her neck and whisper in her ear:"It is quite long that I feel I want to tell you what a nice ass you have". KINO her ass then.

Then sit down on a chair and watch her becoming furious to you, let her shout and all."

Soon after when she is finished you take the trousers away and say;"And now that you are done will you show me at least once some affection by sucking this?"

At this point two things can happen:

- She falls in love for you again.

- She asks for divorce.

In both situations you WIN.
This is something that I would probably do if I was in the same situation. I tend to be an azz from time to time. Very low patience for crap.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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"I'm a good dog, but you gotta pet me to keep me on the porch."
 

00Kevin

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I wonder what kind of marriage we are talking about here. Is this marriage simply a legal contract or does it have any religious grounds (ie holy matrimony etc..)

"the kids come first" is not a cop out like soemone here suggested. Your kids are very important the worst things that could happen are

1. Mommy doesn't love daddy
2. Your family breaks up.

Both of these things are one in the same. If you take off, it will be just as damaging to your children as it will be if you stay locked down in this situation.

You just have to be man enough to stand up to her and lay the law down. You have to fight this problem head on. Improve yourself and slowly create distance from her, join a martial arts club or get some other activities going on in your life.

The fact is this woman should be looking after your kids just like every good mother. Day Care is a huge waste of money. It is a device that women are now abusing. I would also stop sending the children to day care and start saving that money.

I'm so glad I was born with skills enough to spot a useless modern woman. Thankfully I will never be put into this situation.

My point on this entire thing is that you would be a coward not to at least try to improve things. This is after all your family and your legacy.

Set your woman right with you and with God if need be.
 

Latinoman

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My point on this entire thing is that you would be a coward not to at least try to improve things.
He can try. I'm willing to bet that he will not succeed. The marriage is beyong repair. It takes a LOT more balls to make a decision and leave.

Set your woman right with you and with God if need be.
Sorry...but God gives people the ability to make their own decisions. He has to make his. You know...so he can set his legacy as a MAN...and not a WIMP.

Another thing...Day Care might be a "waste of money". But they are a necessity. If they divorce...that woman will have so much time in her hands as to bring new men into her home...and introduce the new men to her kids. If she is working, her time is limited. For the same token, if he takes on more jobs, etc...his time that is better serve to meet other women would be wasted. Furthermore, the additional income is going to his "ex".

I say...get the lazy #$#!@! to work. If the kids need to go to daycare...so be it. Fact is...if he was dead...she would have to work...and the kids would have to go to daycare anyway. If she re-marries and marries a man that expects her to work...she will then GO to work (you would be surprise what women would do for a "bad boy") and the kids would STILL go to daycare.

You see? Things are not as black and white as they seem. It is better if he makes those decisions NOW...than having her making those decisions for him.
 

jonwon

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not going to waste my time posting a huge thread.

Just remember this!

You have 1 LIFE, soon you will look back and think where did it go?

You will be 80 or 90 before you even know it!
It will come and when it does it will seem like today was simply yesterday.

Listen to old people they are wise for a reason.

Do you want to grow old and have a life that was unhappy?
I dont.

Your wife seems unhappy too, actually she seems depressed tbh.

Cant be a good refelection on the children can it now.
Too many negatives, there is no positive.

All i know you need space at the very least.

Spend more time doing your own thing, give your wife the gift of missing you.
A simple rule but very poweful, i dont mean sit at the pc all night i mean actually go out, dont tell her where your going.
Keep her guessing, take up something anything just dont be around as much.

Keep an happy positive frame even if you really feel like cr** inside, do it for the kids. Also now is the time to stop pandering to the women in your life.

Asking her for sex and sublicating to her, is placing her as the head of the house.

YOUR the man not her, this maybe one of the problems.

She comes to the man not the other way around.

You dont need sex and you dont need your wife! keep this in mind.

Stop being so nice and accomidating to this cra* way of life.

Yes i am divorced, but i am divorced for alot of reasons.

I too turned into a jelly fish, i then turned it aorund.
The problem is when i became the man of the house i saw the women was not the women i wanted to be with, thejellyfish guy came out every now and again and guess what the women always always resents the jellyfish guy.
 

flyspy

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NewMan said:
your fvcked.

In the meantime -

1 Stop kissing her ass

2 stop showing her affection - asking for sex

3 stop telling her you love her

4 clean up your finances

5 be a man
It is funny that you would mention finances, but it is true. More divorces happen because of financial problems. My suggestion to the both of you: get some outside proffessional help. Ofcourse you will have to let her know you are sick of the way things are. Also, try to make things more exciting. Whatever you do, get the help though. Women usually love to talk, if she isnt interested, then you should probably hire a divorce lawyer, and a private investigator to find out who her lover is. I hate to say it, but if her life isnt a living hell too, then somone else is keeping it from being that way.

No matter what you do, the best of wishes of luck to you.

-Mark
 
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