Why Women Lie?

[STR8UP]

squirrels is becoming our resident philosopher, hehe. Good quote.

This argument has been repeated ad-infinitum.

What's interesting though is that from my personal experience, the fact that I have a clear cut sense of morality is wildly attractive to girls. And I was scratching my head trying to figure out why. Why are girls attracted to a man with a clear sense of morals?

The recurring theme is the same, you are a man, you create your own world, you create your own reality. And what does it mean to create your own world? The essence of it is clear boundaries, clear limits. You have clear and defined tastes that seperate you from other guys, and you have a set of clearly defined moral rules which you live by.

Women are not attracted to morality. If this were true then women wouldn't be attracted to criminals.

There is another dynamic at play. Probably more along the lines of them being attracted to the OTHER masculine qualities that you display (strength, congruence) when you are making a moral judgment.

You have it partially correct, but I would actually go so far as to say that women would generally be turned off by morality. The part you were right about is "creating your own reality". To me that sounds an awful lot like "living outside the boundaries of society" (society is what imposes morality on us in the first place).

You had the right idea, you just applied it to the wrong attribute.

 

[Deep Dish]

I have seen so much immorality through amoral principles over the past month that it's simultaneously disturbing, grotesquely amusing, and enlightening. I have witnessed a co-worker girl lie about "technicalities" to justify cheating on a friend of mine. (She hooked up with her "high school sweetheart" on spring break, I think, and is now onto a third guy, another friend.)(I took a pass. Bros before hos!) I have witnessed a co-worker girl get caught cheating on her husband and lie about "It's a long story." And I have an unethical opportunity presented before me.

KontrollerX:
Women view guys that are hardcore into moral codes as silly little boys wasting their own time on foolishness meanwhile they tell their little lies and benefit while the moral man gets the short end of the stick.

True that. Thinking about it for a moment, the men who are the most capable of living a cognitively moral life may be the men who can score with women left and right. They can, if they choose, walk around with a big stick and espouse the virtues of morality. They may be the son of a pastor, or whatever, and they can go around thinking they are living a virtuous moral life and lead the morality crew, but there is the philosophical Cartesian devil—the uncertainty of when you are being deceived. Since women tend to cover-up the true circumstances of their lives with rationalities and technicalities, these men may ironically be the biggest douche bags. Ironically, the men who are the most capable of living an actually moral life, undesired AFCs, may also be the most tempted to live a cognitively amoral or immoral life.

 

[ketostix]

Women aren't people.

Do with them as you will.

Don't play by artificially limiting rules. They aren't. We're both in the game, and they won't agree to rules, so no holds barred. Save morals for those who play fair: lots of men.

If women have no native sense of fair play, fairness, justice etc, then they are not equal to men. Feminism is invalid. What this tells you is that men are naturally the law givers and should make the rules that women live by, and not the other way around. Women are not equiped to make rules or dictate to men. When women are the ones making the rules chaos ensues. All this was self-evident to men for thousands of years and for most of human history. Then around 1960 people were "enlightened" (brainwashed) that women know best.

The point that's overlooked is you have female prerogative running amok. It's like the female equivalent of the Taliban. I can see the practical advice some are giving that you must play by female rules to beat females at their own game. I'm not so sure men are going to win by becoming more like females though. Can you just imagine a world where everyone including men behaved like women where all the rules were based on shifting sand? Well that's kind of what is coming to now.

What's interesting though is that from my personal experience, the fact that I have a clear cut sense of morality is wildly attractive to girls. And I was scratching my head trying to figure out why. Why are girls attracted to a man with a clear sense of morals?

Trader I see you also provided a counterpoint to men playing more like women. I can't go so far to say that I've seen women attracted to clasical masculine thinking and behavior though.

The recurring theme is the same, you are a man, you create your own world, you create your own reality. And what does it mean to create your own world? The essence of it is clear boundaries, clear limits. You have clear and defined tastes that seperate you from other guys, and you have a set of clearly defined moral rules which you live by.

I would say that a man doesn't so much create reality. Reality is objective, so it's more like he discovers reality. Maybe a way of stating it is a man should not be swayed by others' false reality that they created. So in that sense I'd agree. But when you start talking about creating reality, a purely self-serving code etc, that's what women tend to do.

 

[princelydeeds]

I totally believe this.

I will say this, all the girls I've dated so far have been very faithful to me and haven't lied to me, not as far as I'm concerned.

-Kevin

Most of the time, we do not see the lie coming until it is too late. Our egos are so large, we believe that Sally is the one precious flower who would never ever lie to us because she is so special and different from all the rest. I challenge you to read these boards carefully, every single "Sally doesn't love me anymore" post is saying the exact same thing. Sally was soooo special, I cannot believe she would ever lie, she was so faithful, honest and into me there is no way she could have ever lied to me. Most men simply do not see the lie until it is too late.

 

[squirrels]

I happened to catch Chris Rock in "Bigger and Blacker" last night. Good stand-up...he pretty much nails it as far as lying goes. "Men lie the most, women tell the biggest lies".

Watch it.

 

[Nutz]

I happened to catch Chris Rock in "Bigger and Blacker" last night. Good stand-up...he pretty much nails it as far as lying goes. "Men lie the most, women tell the biggest lies".

Watch it.

LOL, good example:

Man's lie: "I'm over at, uh, Jimmy's place. Yeah, Jimmy's place."
Woman's lie: "It's your baby."


See also: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1559703&postcount=32

 

[Da Realist]

I don't doubt women lie better than men. Think about it: they have babies. Women go through all the pain of having of carrying a kid around, squeezing it out, and then calls it the happiest moment of their life. And they are programmed to do this over and over again depsite whatever pain they go through. If they can block out something like that, how hard can it be to block out other stuff so they can say "I didn't know I was lying?" That coupled with the fact that men are focused mostly on what's in front of us makes them better at it.

 

[Trader]

squirrels is becoming our resident philosopher, hehe. Good quote.

Women are not attracted to morality. If this were true then women wouldn't be attracted to criminals.

There is another dynamic at play. Probably more along the lines of them being attracted to the OTHER masculine qualities that you display (strength, congruence) when you are making a moral judgment.

First off, it is painfully obvious that girls are attracted to guys who are *immoral.* But are girls attracted to the immorality itself, or are they attracted to the strength and power that the immoral badass has? I say it is attraction to the strength and power.

I will concede that the girl might be attracted to the *evil* that is in him for a one-night stand. After all, she might be repressed and wants to explore her dark side.

But the bottom line is this: if a guy has morals AND has that power, strength, and masculinity, the girl will choose the moral guy over the immoral guy every single time.

This is painfully obvious as well: would you rather date a hot girl who will be faithful to you, or a hot girl who will cheat on you?

Of course, most *moral* guys are nice guys and complete wussies, and since girls place a greater value on strength and power than on morality, she will choose the badass.

That's why when girls complain that there are no quality men, in some sense, they are correct. It is very very rare for a man to be powerful AND be moral enough NOT to abuse his power.

You have it partially correct, but I would actually go so far as to say that women would generally be turned off by morality. The part you were right about is "creating your own reality". To me that sounds an awful lot like "living outside the boundaries of society" (society is what imposes morality on us in the first place).

You had the right idea, you just applied it to the wrong attribute.

If you let society impose its morality on you, you are the farthest thing from a man. This is the infamous *nice guy* or AFC who lets others (i.e. society, girls) tell him what he *ought* to do.

But if you have no sense of morality, I would argue that you are not a man either, you are a GIRL.

Masculinity (creating your own reality) is YOU deciding where the moral lines will be drawn. You are carving out your own world out of the universe, so to speak. And this is exactly what girls CANNOT do. They mindlessly follow society and their peers to the nth degree. Girls have exactly the subconscious mindset of *anything goes* *anything can be rationalized* which is basically a world with no boundaries. This is why we have this thread where guys always complain about how girls lie so repeatedly and so effortlessly.

We always say girls are looking for *security* well the man who sets HIS OWN moral boundaries and creates his own world for the girl to enter into, gives the girl that *security* and ORDER she so desperately craves.

 

[Mr. Me]

In the meantime, there's another thread going by some guy who's looking to cheat on his GF and is asking for advice about a new girl he met. Sort of puts a damper on all this 'men are the noble truth keepers' stuff I'm reading here.

 

[DonGorgon]

All Humans lie to maintain the upper hand in social , emotional and financial interpersonal situations.

Lying is a fundamental part of natural human competition and survival struggles .All humans have the same propensity to lie.

 

[BlackJackal]

"More than 80% of women believe lying is beneficial."

Which is exactly why I told TheHumanist poster long ago that women are more practical minded than our gender naturally and don't bother with that morality clap trap.

They only regard morals insofar as they follow the law to avoid jail and prison and thats really about it.

Women view guys that are hardcore into moral codes as silly little boys wasting their own time on foolishness meanwhile they tell their little lies and benefit while the moral man gets the short end of the stick.

Morality crew guys like to argue endlessly about this to preserve their quality woman mythology and even their arguing about it slows them down rather than just accepting the truth and making the appropriate decisions to benefit themselves understanding what women are rather than what they want them to be.

Co-sign

 

[KontrollerX]

In the meantime, there's another thread going by some guy who's looking to cheat on his GF and is asking for advice about a new girl he met. Sort of puts a damper on all this 'men are the noble truth keepers' stuff I'm reading here.

Not really.

The guy may of been simply reading, learning and applying what many of us are teaching here.

 

[Tazman]

I don't know how much my lies stack up against the next man, but I will say that I lie on a semi regular basis. Most I would call white lies, but most times I feel they're necessary. Being honest with my employer backfired, being honest with my close friends and some relatives backfired, being honest with certain women backfired, in a lot of situations honesty seemed to get me the opposite reaction I was hoping for.

I lie to women about things I feel are necessary to avoid any resistance that might result otherwise. Again, most times they're white lies, as in I wouldn't do something like steal someone's money or knowingly have sex with a woman if I had an STD without saying anything about it (especially something communicable) or drink out of a shared carton of milk while sick with an infectious virus, etc.

People don't appreciate honesty for what it is, I think Rollo touched on this. I lie because it benefits me to do so, but I do have limits.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Princely,
I agree with Tazman,why tell the truth when you are going to hurt someone,that is cruel......One thing I have learned though,if you would lie to a Woman, then never do it in a small way,they wont believe you,no,make it a good one,a big one,they won't believe you could have the nerve....If caught out,then never admit it, even if caught Red Handed,No,play the Injured Innocent to give you time to Ride away on a high Horse and invent some plausible tale,always remember,her catching you in some mean endeavour,is something you should not forgive her easily over....There are lies and there is Disengenuinity...sometimes the biggest lies are those of omission.

 

[jophil28]

What's interesting though is that from my personal experience, the fact that I have a clear cut sense of morality is wildly attractive to girls. And I was scratching my head trying to figure out why. Why are girls attracted to a man with a clear sense of morals?

FOr the same reason that we are all are drawn to people who have clear morals and ethics...

Say you are going deep sea diving. You are diving 50 metres over reefs.Your instructor offers you a choice of either of two buddies. You know both guys well, and both are equalled accomplished in their dive skills..

One is a moderately self centered kind of guy who has made it clear that he believes that life is about taking an advantage where you find it and looking out for #1. To him there are no external morals ( he believes in inventing his own ), no rules, and he dismisses any inherent obligation to others. This guy lives for his own benefit with little interest in the impact of his behavior on others.

The second guy is one of those traditional guys who believes in doing the 'right thing', and in treating others as well as he treats himself. He has always kept his word, acknowledges that he does not live in a community of 'self' and shows responsibility to others when it is called for. Some might even call him a 'black and white' kind of guy.
He would be called by some as a member of "the morality crew".

Which guy do you want to dive with ?

 

[jophil28]

. Women are not equiped to make rules or dictate to men. When women are the ones making the rules chaos ensues. All this was self-evident to men for thousands of years and for most of human history. Then around 1960 people were "enlightened" (brainwashed) that women know best.

How true is that.
Hey Keto, do you mind if I paste those fine words over to Loveshack ?

 

[ketostix]

How true is that.
Hey Keto, do you mind if I paste those fine words over to Loveshack ?

Go right ahead Jophil. How in the world did you manage to keep an account at Loveshack for so long? The last account I had there got banned long ago. I even toned it way down and tried to play to those chicks egos and they still banned me lol.