Why women date phoneys, con men, etc. (rant)

[sangheilios]

@sangheilios your mindset is why you fail with women.

It is why you post 'rants' under the pretense of discussion. It is why you are "6'4 ripped guy with a big schlong" (or so you say) who tells others to not improve because he is "top tier" yet hasn't been successful. It is why you continuously get called out for a victim mindset which aligns with typical 'blackpill rhetoric'. You don't get it and it seems you are really keen on not getting it.

Nuance is needed​

Attempting to place things in such a logical framework is likely why one fails with women.

Thinking in black and white will not help you in your endeavors with women. Coming from a place of rationality may help create a foundational palette to choose from, but women, sex and life is so much more colorful and complex than just black and white.

If you continue to paint monochromatically you are not going to see the potentially vivid full spectrum of colors on your canvas.



You improve because you want to improve.

(You may or may not attract people into your lives as a result of doing so...)

If you aim to improve for the sake of others' approval then you are already losing. Can you choose to better yourself in an attempt to receive attention from those you desire? Certainly, but if that is the sole motivator behind one’s actions then you are already in a failing outcome dependent mindset.

I don't get up and lift weights to get chicks, I do it for me at the end of the day. Can it have the benefit of making me more attractive to women? Yes and I am well aware of that added boon, but I do not get upset when getting more fit does not garner me more women. Same thing for when I desire to learn a new skill, practice something or undertake a new challenge.

Regardless of gender, I take exception to ANYONE who discourages those from wanting to better themselves in any capacity




Nothing in life is a guarantee, but the only guarantee for failure is to stop trying!

Many people today want to find a remedy that solves their problems.

A telegraphed step by step solution to get what they want out of life. They attempt to do the things they are ‘supposed’ to do and when they don’t see results they blame the process. This binary literalist mindset cannot and should not be applied in this manner.

Some guys are skeptical of the core components of seduction and in turn the validity of game. They oppose many of the constructs of game (such as controlling perception and making extensive use of social skills). Here It seems you reduce game to nothing more than a 'con' through putting on airs and engaging in what you deem as manipulation. You also very clearly admonish those that excel in these regards and clearly think of them as 'lesser' than you



You underestimate both men and women here while placing/redirecting blame.

Your post comes across as self righteous whilst rationalizing away your own failings with women by referring to those who are 'sexually successful' as 'phonies, con men and players'.... In other words quite the AFC behavior.

I find your insights interesting at times and you are clearly an intelligent individual with thinks very deeply, but this is veiled with bitterness and what I can only assume is envy.

I've seen this in many of your posts and I am just calling it for what I see.

Necessity is not virtuous and placing blame is a demonstration in lacking accountability. Getting upset when you improve yourself and do not succeed with your desired outcome is self defeating/limiting. Engage in all the 'discussion' (mental mastubation) you want, but the underlying agenda reads clear as day.

"You may succeed in making another feel guilty about something by blaming them,
but you won't succeed in changing whatever it is about you that is making you unhappy.
-Wayne Dyer​

I've been out of the game for something like close to 4 years now, I honestly can't even remember the last time I specifically asked a woman out but I do know my last "date" was something like June 2019.

Over this span of time, I've noticed a trend and it's that women go for men that are losers and regularly reject more normal men. There was a guy I knew that was 6'1", almost 300 pounds that literally didn't work during the entire pandemic that claimed to be a Navy SEAL when he was younger that entered into a relationship with a woman in 2020 who he is still with lol. This guy was a huge phoney in every sense of the word, brought nothing to the table other than b.s and yet a woman chose that guy lol. Do you think this guy is not worthless or inferior?

I can cite tons of examples of men like this, some I included in my original post. Women love conmen, phoneys, losers, etc. because they are exciting and novel. They probably falsely recognize all of these fake status men as being highly competent. I honestly don't understand it, thus why I checked out. When I see what women go for and what they actually choose, it just makes me laugh and realize how much better off I've been by checking out.

I'm not envious of these men, I just don't get why lesser men that have nothing going for them are chosen. I'm 6'4", I'm easily in the top 5% of fitness for my age. I made about half a million dollars in 2021 from Crypto, I was buying Ethereum when it was at around $100 and BTC at 3k. I have an average paying job but a very low cost of living with a relatively minimalist lifestyle so no one would ever guess this, "millionaire next door" type lifestyle. I have a great overall life so I cannot ever say that I'd be jealous of men that I'm literally at a different level than lol. That's why I don't believe self improvement means anything, look at those results in my life and I'm just getting started.

 

[zekko]

I've been seeing a lot of threads lately on here talking about the black pill, self improvement, etc. I've been posting on here about how the "self improvement" advice of bettering your physique, career, money, etc. is really not that big of a game changer for the vast majority of men. Telling men to get in shape,or become uber successful is not a guaranteed recipe for success. There is one very big thing that I see that totally is a counter to this advice, which is women that date losers, phoneys, fakes, etc.

Being in shape will make you more attractive. However, for the most part, women are the choosers, not the initiaters. Most choose from the men who approach them. The con men will definitely be approaching for the sale, so it's no surprise some of them find their mark.

On the other hand, if you are socially awkward and reserved, hitting the gym does not fix that. If you are afraid to approach women and/or don't know how to interact with them in a comfortable way, going to the gym doesn't change that. At best, it might give you more confidence, which can help, but it doesn't change your lack of social experience.

 

[sangheilios]

Being in shape will make you more attractive. However, for the most part, women are the choosers, not the initiaters. Most choose from the men who approach them. The con men will definitely be approaching for the sale, so it's no surprise some of them find their mark.

On the other hand, if you are socially awkward and reserved, hitting the gym does not fix that. If you are afraid to approach women and/or don't know how to interact with them in a comfortable way, going to the gym doesn't change that. At best, it might give you more confidence, which can help, but it doesn't change your lack of social experience.

This thread isn't about getting in shape being good for "game, the point is that women often cannot filter out men that are full blown b.s artists from more normal ones. They have a poor ability to recognize true competence in a man, thus why they fall for these phoney types, as they mistake their behavior as that of a high status/competent man.

 

[pipeman84]

To balance this, OP should make a thread on why men marry single moms or women with a string of failed relationships behind them. Then the reader can decide which one of the sexes is dumber.

 

[sangheilios]

To balance this, OP should make a thread on why men marry single moms or women with a string of failed relationships behind them. Then the reader can decide which one of the sexes is dumber.

It's because past a certain age the majority of single men will have their realistic options limited to purely women in these categories.

 

[Fruitbat]

The guy who’s 5’4. You said he’s a bodybuilder. Sure he’s dressed up the pictures but I doubt he has a gut. He’s worked hard for that. It’s really hard to get anywhere with physique.

plus he does seminars for home flippers. 80% of people can’t get on their feet and run a seminar. This takes a certain amount of get up and go.

So I don’t think this guy is as phony As you think.

The issue is, we are EXACTLY THE SAME. Tons of women aren’t exactly beautiful but they do a few squats, stay a normal weight and then slap on makeup and revealing clothing and hey presto! We are all drooling.

picture the female DJ forum posting “Men just like fake beauty”. There are tons of attractive girls who aren’t interested in posing like a hooker and guess what? Most men ignore them for the chick with blonde hair extensions.

I’ve said this many times but men have no idea whatsoever on the amount of work it takes hot women to be hot. Most of it is truly down to the amount spent on hair, skincare etc. it makes an enormous difference.

my wife puts on a show and she goes from a 6 in sweats and hair up to a smoking 10 (of course - in my eyes) when she gets dressed up, goes to town on hair and makeup etc.

 

[Bigpapa]

I've been seeing a lot of threads lately on here talking about the black pill, self improvement, etc. I've been posting on here about how the "self improvement" advice of bettering your physique, career, money, etc. is really not that big of a game changer for the vast majority of men. Telling men to get in shape,or become uber successful is not a guaranteed recipe for success. There is one very big thing that I see that totally is a counter to this advice, which is women that date losers, phoneys, fakes, etc.

Here is some of my input on this;

Con men/phoneys
I'm going to start with a trend I've noticed over the last several years, and that is women seem to really go for men who heavily exaggerate themselves or even create entire fake personas. I partially blame this on social media, it's become a cultural norm to create this false image of yourself on Instagram for the world to see. Scam artists like Dan Bilzerian are the epitomy of this but you will see this with real world, everyday people. I personally get the feeling that women are drawn to these men because of the amount of attention they seem to garner and in their mind this means that these are "high status" men.

A couple examples

There was this guy in my area who was a "real estate expert" that would post all these exaggerated accomplishments on his social media. He was also a bodybuilder type who literally went on there and edited his photos to make it look like he was this huge, ripped guy. In reality, he was around 5'4" and looked like a completely average guy off the street. He really was just a regular real estate agent who also did these b.s home flipping seminars/workshops that they sell to gullible people. All of the people that this guy associated with were phoneys as well, though I questioned if they even were aware of it lol.


There was someone I used to know in my area who talked about having this highly successful company that he was running related to medical device sales. He used to constantly talk about this to just about anyone around him and it gave off a fake, salesman type vibe. He also used to have this on his tinder bio, which I felt was a tactic in order to appear higher status. I eventually found out that his parents paid everything for him (car, rent, groceries, etc.) and he mostly just spent the day playing video games, playing basketball, etc. I believe that this specific individual created this entire persona for a multitude of reasons, one of which being to appear more important than he actually was. This man would constantly go through a rotation of women that he'd meet, though they all gave off a desperate/insecure vibe and really couldn't see through the b.s.

I could cite many different examples but I don't want to turn this into an entire essay. In my opinion, I believe that women very often have an incredibly poor ability to filter out con men. Men overall seem to be quite good at spotting incompetence in other men, it's like we have an innate ability to quickly determine who is actual status/hierarchy. Men tend to pick up on who is the better worker, who is more reliable and who is competent compared to those that aren't. I feel this is an ability that women are often not very good at and is a reason they get themselves into trouble. The thing about con men is that they have enough charisma to the point where they can paint a really good picture of themselves and their abilities. Women fall for this because they often times become magnetically drawn to men that can create a fantasy world for them. Women will see these men as high status and not realize they are really falling for a complete ****ing loser lol. Women chase the thrill and excitement, Jeremy the electrician who is making bank in his trade job does not provide the same thrills as Dillon the con artist who in reality is a complete loser doing nothing with his life.

There's a reason why traditionally women didn't choose their own husbands on their own and would need the approval of family or perhaps even have an arranged marriage. These are foreign concepts to us in our modern western world, but this was the reality for thousands of years. Women very often make very poor choices in men.

Bro, you keep coming with the same topics on and on

We should start charging you per topic and per response

 

[RangerMIke]

You can have the best product in the world, but if you don't advertise and do not know how to close, you will never get the sale.

Same is true for women.

Product = Looks, Money, Status.

Sales = Confidence, Self-Control, Indifference to outcome.

You cold call (approach), determine if there is interest in you product (read her body language and behavior), make and appointment (make a date), thy to sell, try to close... if at any point you get resistance or think you might be wasting your time... move onto the next one.

Dating is a sales numbers game... this is what player understand.

 

[CornbreadFed]

90% of these topics claiming that all women do this or are this, I’ve never even encountered. No offense, but you attract what you are.

 

[corsica]

Women will always look for the best deal, can’t blame them. They just can’t make good decisions though.

In a perfect world their parents will use their experience to vet the guy (like the electrician). Instead, she goes for Johnny The Drug Dealer. They go to nice parties, use drugs all the time, do fun activities, buy her expensive crap…
Some women will say it’s great because the worst it can happen is having Johnny arrested and she’ll lose the lifestyle. She’s not going to prison and she can always find the next “Johnny”. Or so they think. Now she’s a 30yo single mom used to that crazy lifestyle and she’s not going to settle for anything less. She doesn’t know it’s game over for her.

There are guys that can offer such short-time experiences to women. Men will pretend to be higher status to increase their chances of getting laid. It’ll always be like that. Some will buy a Lambo. Others will buy fake Gucci loafers

 

[CornbreadFed]

In a perfect world their parents will use their experience to vet the guy (like the electrician). Instead, she goes for Johnny The Drug Dealer. They go to nice parties, use drugs all the time, do fun activities, buy her expensive crap…

If you are ever in the position where you are competing against drug dealers then you need to start reviewing your priorities.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Because these people are great salesmen, not unlike people who are super successful at car sales, door to door sales, business sales, etc.

They know their customer, know how to get them to see value in what they are selling and how to trigger them to buy.

Instead of dissing them, you should be trying to learn from them. Obviously not taking the fake stuff, but there is plenty you could learn about how they do it and use it to your advantage.

There is something you can learn from just about anyone who is good at something you are not or does something you don't, and incorporate it into what you do to help you become better at it.

 

[CornbreadFed]

They know their customer, know how to get them to see value in what they are selling and how to trigger them to buy.

The guys I know that get the most action follow this rule to the Tee. Most of the guys complaining about women are men shooting outside their market.

 

[Michael Chief]

You guys are sure using a lot of words to say "confidence is attractive."

One of the great benefits of getting in shape and getting the rest of your life together is that is paves a healthy path toward being more confident. It just so happens that some types of men still don't gain confidence in the dating game even after they do all that work because they have other hurdles that get in the way, for example: literally any sort of mindset that an incel would post online.

Con men already exude some form of confidence and charisma even if isn't made in an optimal way.

I thought this thread would be about the attractiveness of dark triad characteristics but turns out it's not.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

The guys I know that get the most action follow this rule to the Tee. Most of the guys complaining about women are men shooting outside their market.

This is a good point too. Every product has a core group of buyers to sell to. Many guys waste their time with women who have no interest in their product. It would be like someone trying to sell skiing equipment to someone who never has skied in their life and has no interest in ever doing so.

There is a term in the banking industry called KYC. Know Your Customer. It's used to help prevent fraud and money laundering with them, but it can be applied to just about any sort of business interactions and interactions with women as well.

 

[corsica]

If you are ever in the position where you are competing against drug dealers then you need to start reviewing your priorities.

Choosing Tyrone who will spend all his monthly wage to impress a girl for a week, pretending to be a soon-to-be rapper or professional athlete just to get her pregnant after a week of sex marathon make the point different?

OP is ranting about fakers. I’m pointing that women will look for the best deal, many times doing the wrong gamble. Be it a faker (like Tyrone) or a man without future (like Johnny).

We’re all competing for the same type of women. Attractive ones.

 

[RangerMIke]

Sales is an emotional, not logical decision. If this was not true, no one would ever buy a new car.

The fun dude, who is a chaotic mess, with emotional intelligence, who knows how to push the right buttons will always do better than the rational/logical dude who is a good catch. It is the difference between fishing, and sitting in a boat waiting for fish to jump in.

 

[SW15]

@sangheilios "6'4 ripped guy with a big schlong"

In general, a 6'4" man who is fit with a big penis is a top tier man. That's the physical type that is most desired. People would call this 'Chad' or even 'GigaChad'.

This is the foundation of being a top tier. With those stats, he could be the #1 seducer on this forum.

Con men/phoneys
I'm going to start with a trend I've noticed over the last several years, and that is women seem to really go for men who heavily exaggerate themselves or even create entire fake personas. I partially blame this on social media, it's become a cultural norm to create this false image of yourself on Instagram for the world to see. Scam artists like Dan Bilzerian are the epitomy of this but you will see this with real world, everyday people. I personally get the feeling that women are drawn to these men because of the amount of attention they seem to garner and in their mind this means that these are "high status" men.

The first chapter of "The Rational Male: The Player's Handbook" is titled Brand Management.

Dating is all about creating your brand and the perceptions associated with your brand. There is a fine line between brand management and fraud.

At 6'4" and being fit, the brand of @sangheilios needs to be 'GigaChad'. All behaviors need to align with this idea of being a top tier Chad. Perhaps a 'Chad' vibe is not given off in-person, which is a brand management issue.

There was someone I used to know in my area who talked about having this highly successful company that he was running related to medical device sales. He used to constantly talk about this to just about anyone around him and it gave off a fake, salesman type vibe. He also used to have this on his tinder bio, which I felt was a tactic in order to appear higher status. I eventually found out that his parents paid everything for him (car, rent, groceries, etc.) and he mostly just spent the day playing video games, playing basketball, etc. I believe that this specific individual created this entire persona for a multitude of reasons, one of which being to appear more important than he actually was. This man would constantly go through a rotation of women that he'd meet, though they all gave off a desperate/insecure vibe and really couldn't see through the b.s.

This guy got to chill out, do nothing, exercise, and bang chicks. That sounds like a sweet lifestyle.

I believe that women very often have an incredibly poor ability to filter out con men. Men overall seem to be quite good at spotting incompetence in other men, it's like we have an innate ability to quickly determine who is actual status/hierarchy. Men tend to pick up on who is the better worker, who is more reliable and who is competent compared to those that aren't. I feel this is an ability that women are often not very good at and is a reason they get themselves into trouble. The thing about con men is that they have enough charisma to the point where they can paint a really good picture of themselves and their abilities. Women fall for this because they often times become magnetically drawn to men that can create a fantasy world for them. Women will see these men as high status and not realize they are really falling for a complete ****ing loser lol. Women chase the thrill and excitement, Jeremy the electrician who is making bank in his trade job does not provide the same thrills as Dillon the con artist who in reality is a complete loser doing nothing with his life.

Women very often make very poor choices in men.

Women do seek "all the feelz" in dating. These men you cite are giving it to them. Somehow, you are managing your 'Chad' brand effectively. You are well spoken in these forums and articulate ideas well. Perhaps this confuses women who are solely expecting a GigaChad with no substance. Lead with your height/physique and become the 'GigaChad' they desire.

I agree women make poor choices in men. You could be one of those poor choices. You could be the GigaChad who they desire with all their heart who breaks their heart by acting like a stereotypical douchebag.

Women tend to pass over good men like guys with STEM degrees and STEM jobs for broke, tattooed dirtbags, GigaChads who play with their heart, etc.

 

[zekko]

This thread isn't about getting in shape being good for "game, the point is that women often cannot filter out men that are full blown b.s artists from more normal ones. They have a poor ability to recognize true competence in a man, thus why they fall for these phoney types, as they mistake their behavior as that of a high status/competent man.

I agree, but I don't find that surprising. In many ways, women are kind of like aliens to us. And in some ways, we are just as alien to them. It is, however, much easier for them to manipulate us than vice versa.

 

[SmoothHendrixPS2]

This week, on another episode of WOMEN CHOOSE WHO THEY WANT TO F*Ck....